RE: bash and the delete key

RE: bash and the delete key

[Randall R Schulz]

At 20:59 2002-07-26, you wrote:
> > At 20:16 2002-07-26, Some Beer-Swilling Patriot wrote:
> > > > Tony,
> > > >
> > > > Absolutely that's a problem!
> > > >
> > > > CTRL-V is the default assignment for "literal-next" ("lnext") in the
> > > > TTY driver
> > > >
> > >
> > >OK, but to people who never knew that, and now that they do can't 
> imagine why
> > >they'd ever need it, is it a problem?  CTRL-V is "paste" in every windows
> > >program since 3.11 days, and it'd be hella-useful to remap it to
> > something one
> > >would actually use.
> >
> >
> > Cygwin is not Windows.
>
>Then what's the "win" in Cygwin for?

It stands for Windows, the name of the host environment within which a 
POSIX environment is emulated. We're discussing the behavior of the 
emulated environment, not the host environment.


> > Cygwin does not aim to adopt Windows conventions
> > within its environment,
>
>ls c:
>
>Yep, that works.  A lotta work's gone into the text/binary mess as well.

Accepting Windows file name syntax doesn't usurp any existing POSIX 
functionality.


> > at least not as the default.>
>
>By default it has no default, that's why the subject comes up at all.

What is "it" that has no default? CTRL-V has a default assignment: 
literal-next in the TTY driver and in the readline library.


> > People who know what they're doing know what literal next is and does and
> > they use it.
>
>I know what I'm doing.  I've never used it.  The thought that "gee, I wish I
>could type goofy characters at the bash prompt" never even crossed my mind.

No, you don't. You already professed your ignorance.


> > How do you get a TAB into a command line with completion
> > enabled?
>
>Shrug.  Why would you want to?

Grep is the most obvious use.


> > An ESC? A CTRL-A? CTRL-B? CTRL-C? CTRL-D? CTRL-E? CTRL-T? CTRL-P?
> > CTRL-O? CTRL-N? Backslash doesn't handle non-printing characters, only
> > literal next makes it possible to enter them on the command line.
> >
> > Mapping the insert clipboard to the "Insert" key is sufficiently
> > "hella-useful."
>
>Oh I agree 100%.  But it'd be even nicer if, when I reflexively hit 
>CTRL-V, it'd
>do what one would expect it to do on a Windows machine, i.e. paste from the
>clipboard.

Nicer for you. If it's what you want, take matters into your own hands and 
adapt your own environment to your own preferences and leave the stock 
environment in the most POSIX- and / or Unix-compliant state feasible.


>So I ask again, is remapping CTRL-V going to cause any problems for those who
>have no desire to enter tabs on the command line?

For the ignorant, no, it will cause no problems. For those who need literal 
next and have the legitimate expectation that it will be in the default 
place (CTRL-V), yes it matters and should not be changed.

Randall Schulz
Mountain View, CA USA

Randy 


--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

RE: bash and the delete key

[Nicholas Wourms]

--- Randall R Schulz <rrschulz@cris.com> wrote:
> >So I ask again, is remapping CTRL-V going to cause any problems
> for those who
> >have no desire to enter tabs on the command line?
> 
> For the ignorant, no, it will cause no problems. For those who need
> literal 
> next and have the legitimate expectation that it will be in the
> default 
> place (CTRL-V), yes it matters and should not be changed.

I would like to point out that CTRL-V is used by nano and pico users
to scroll down one page.  If I'm not mistaken, it is used in lynx as
well.  In fact, pretty much any readline based application I can
think of uses it.  Since readline uses inputrc for its bindings, this
would probably break the binding in many current applications.  I
have to agree with Randall that this would be a very bad idea, and
probably cause many mailing-list headaches (as most newbies like to
use pico/nano).  If I know Chris' responses, he'd probably say
something like, "Hell will freeze over first before CTRL-V gets
changed."  Either that, or "We aren't going to change it because we
are *mean*."

Sorry, it ain't gonna happen, 'Nuff Said.

Cheers,
Nicholas

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com

--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

RE: bash and the delete key

[Randall R Schulz]

Nicholas,

At 08:06 2002-07-27, Nicholas Wourms wrote:
>--- Randall R Schulz <rrschulz@cris.com> wrote:
> > >So I ask again, is remapping CTRL-V going to cause any problems
> > >for those who have no desire to enter tabs on the command line?
> >
> > For the ignorant, no, it will cause no problems. For those who need 
> literal
> > next and have the legitimate expectation that it will be in the default
> > place (CTRL-V), yes it matters and should not be changed.
>
>I would like to point out that CTRL-V is used by nano and pico users
>to scroll down one page.  If I'm not mistaken, it is used in lynx as
>well.  In fact, pretty much any readline based application I can
>think of uses it.  Since readline uses inputrc for its bindings, this
>would probably break the binding in many current applications.  I
>have to agree with Randall that this would be a very bad idea, and
>probably cause many mailing-list headaches (as most newbies like to
>use pico/nano).  If I know Chris' responses, he'd probably say
>something like, "Hell will freeze over first before CTRL-V gets
>changed."  Either that, or "We aren't going to change it because we
>are *mean*."

Vi uses it as (surprise) literal-next.

Also, I conducted an experiment. I changed the tty driver's "lnext" 
character and launched a sub-shell (BASH), but in that shell even though 
the "stty -a" confirmed my change to "lnext" was still in effect, readline 
within BASH was still using CTRL-V as the literal next character. Further 
experimentation suggests that readline will only adapt to the tty driver's 
"lnext" character if it does not conflict with a pre-existing readline 
binding. In any case, it keeps CTRL-V as literal next even if the tty 
driver's "lnext" does not conflict.


>Sorry, it ain't gonna happen, 'Nuff Said.

One can only hope.

This whole business ain't as simple as it might seem, since so many 
characters are interpreted by the tty driver and / or readline and various 
applications.


>Cheers,
>Nicholas


Randall Schulz


--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

Re: bash and the delete key

[Andrew DeFaria]

Randall R Schulz wrote:

>> Oh I agree 100%.  But it'd be even nicer if, when I reflexively hit 
>> CTRL-V, it'd do what one would expect it to do on a Windows machine, 
>> i.e. paste from the clipboard.
>
> Nicer for you. If it's what you want, take matters into your own hands 
> and adapt your own environment to your own preferences and leave the 
> stock environment in the most POSIX- and / or Unix-compliant state 
> feasible. 

But that's what he was asking for (see what follows)

>> So I ask again, is remapping CTRL-V going to cause any problems for 
>> those who
>> have no desire to enter tabs on the command line? 
>
See. He asked how to remap his Ctrl-v key.




--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

Re: bash and the delete key

[Randall R Schulz]

Andrew,

At 18:00 2002-07-28, you wrote:
>Randall R Schulz wrote:
>
>>>Oh I agree 100%.  But it'd be even nicer if, when I reflexively hit 
>>>CTRL-V, it'd do what one would expect it to do on a Windows machine, 
>>>i.e. paste from the clipboard.
>>
>>Nicer for you. If it's what you want, take matters into your own hands 
>>and adapt your own environment to your own preferences and leave the 
>>stock environment in the most POSIX- and / or Unix-compliant state feasible.
>
>But that's what he was asking for (see what follows)
>
>>>So I ask again, is remapping CTRL-V going to cause any problems for 
>>>those who
>>>have no desire to enter tabs on the command line?
>See. He asked how to remap his Ctrl-v key.

Huh? The question clearly is not a "how to" question. He's asking to have 
Cygwin distributed with his preferred mapping in place as the default. 
We've already discussed the how of it: Use the ".inputrc" file to supply a 
mapping for "paste-from-clipboard" action. I and others showed how to do it 
for the "Insert" key.

Randall


--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

Re: bash and the delete key

[Christopher Faylor]

On Sun, Jul 28, 2002 at 06:19:34PM -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:
>Huh?  The question clearly is not a "how to" question.  He's asking to
>have Cygwin distributed with his preferred mapping in place as the
>default.  We've already discussed the how of it: Use the ".inputrc"
>file to supply a mapping for "paste-from-clipboard" action.  I and
>others showed how to do it for the "Insert" key.

That was my reading also.

Would it help if I said that we're not going to change the default
interpretation for CTRL-V under Cygwin?

cgf

--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

Re: bash and the delete key

[Nicholas Wourms]

--- Christopher Faylor <cgf@redhat.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 28, 2002 at 06:19:34PM -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:
> >Huh?  The question clearly is not a "how to" question.  He's
> asking to
> >have Cygwin distributed with his preferred mapping in place as the
> >default.  We've already discussed the how of it: Use the
> ".inputrc"
> >file to supply a mapping for "paste-from-clipboard" action.  I and
> >others showed how to do it for the "Insert" key.
> 
> That was my reading also.
> 
> Would it help if I said that we're not going to change the default
> interpretation for CTRL-V under Cygwin?

AMEN!  Thanks for laying the hammer down on this rediculous idea...

Cheers,
Nicholas

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com

--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

RE: bash and the delete key

[Gary R. Van Sickle]

> Andrew,
>
> At 18:00 2002-07-28, you wrote:
> >Randall R Schulz wrote:
> >
> >>>Oh I agree 100%.  But it'd be even nicer if, when I reflexively hit
> >>>CTRL-V, it'd do what one would expect it to do on a Windows machine,
> >>>i.e. paste from the clipboard.
> >>
> >>Nicer for you. If it's what you want, take matters into your own hands
> >>and adapt your own environment to your own preferences and leave the
> >>stock environment in the most POSIX- and / or Unix-compliant state feasible.
> >
> >But that's what he was asking for (see what follows)
> >
> >>>So I ask again, is remapping CTRL-V going to cause any problems for
> >>>those who
> >>>have no desire to enter tabs on the command line?
> >See. He asked how to remap his Ctrl-v key.
>
> Huh? The question clearly is not a "how to" question.

Right.  "Ignorant" as you profess me to be, I do know what .inputrc is for.

> He's asking to have
> Cygwin distributed with his preferred mapping in place as the default.

Ah... you can of course quote any such request?  No Rands, I was clearly simply
asking whether such a remapping would cause any unforseen problems.  And I thank
you for the difinitive answer and associated insults!

> We've already discussed the how of it: Use the ".inputrc" file to supply a
> mapping for "paste-from-clipboard" action. I and others showed how to do it
> for the "Insert" key.
>

I of course being one of those others, predating you I suspect.  Rands, just get
over me.  Don't hate me because I'm beautiful.

Hate me because I'm better than you. ;-)

> Randall

--
Gary R. Van Sickle
Brewer.  Patriot.




--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

Re: bash and the delete key

[Christopher Faylor]

On Sun, Jul 28, 2002 at 10:04:54PM -0500, Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:
>>He's asking to have Cygwin distributed with his preferred mapping in
>>place as the default.
>
>Ah...  you can of course quote any such request?  No Rands, I was
>clearly simply asking whether such a remapping would cause any
>unforseen problems.  And I thank you for the definitive answer and
>associated insults!

I misinterpreted what you were asking for, too.  Sorry about that.

The bottom line is that if you'd rather remap CTRL-V to something
besides "quote next" it should not negatively impact any sensible
program.

cgf

--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

RE: bash and the delete key

[Gary R. Van Sickle]

> On Sun, Jul 28, 2002 at 10:04:54PM -0500, Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:
> >>He's asking to have Cygwin distributed with his preferred mapping in
> >>place as the default.
> >
> >Ah...  you can of course quote any such request?  No Rands, I was
> >clearly simply asking whether such a remapping would cause any
> >unforseen problems.  And I thank you for the definitive answer and
> >associated insults!
>
> I misinterpreted what you were asking for, too.  Sorry about that.
>

NP.

> The bottom line is that if you'd rather remap CTRL-V to something
> besides "quote next" it should not negatively impact any sensible
> program.

Great!  I think I'll give that a try, and if it does end up causing any issues
I'll report back to the class.

--
Gary R. Van Sickle
Brewer.  Patriot.




--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

RE: bash and the delete key

[Gary R. Van Sickle]

> Randall R Schulz wrote:
>
> >> Oh I agree 100%.  But it'd be even nicer if, when I reflexively hit
> >> CTRL-V, it'd do what one would expect it to do on a Windows machine,
> >> i.e. paste from the clipboard.
> >
> > Nicer for you. If it's what you want, take matters into your own hands
> > and adapt your own environment to your own preferences and leave the
> > stock environment in the most POSIX- and / or Unix-compliant state
> > feasible.
>
> But that's what he was asking for (see what follows)
>

Randy knows what I'm asking for; he's just bent out of joint still about my
"patriot" siggy.

> >> So I ask again, is remapping CTRL-V going to cause any problems for
> >> those who
> >> have no desire to enter tabs on the command line?
> >
> See. He asked how to remap his Ctrl-v key.
>

Actually, I didn't even ask for that much.  I know how to remap it, I just
wanted to know if it was going to cause any unforseen problems.  And thanks to
Randy, I finally got the answer.  And a bunch of sophomoric insults too, but
hey.

--
Gary R. Van Sickle
Brewer.  Patriot.


--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

Re: bash and the delete key

[Steve Chapel]

Sylvain Petreolle <spetreolle at yahoo dot fr> wrote:
 >So why don't we provide a default .inputrc with at least this option
 >enabled ?
 >
 > --- Randall R Schulz <rrschulz@cris.com> a écrit : > Paul,
 >>
 >> [To get the delete key to work on the console,]
 >> Add this line to your "$HOME/.inputrc" file:
 >>
 >>    "\M-[3~":   delete-char
 >>
 >> This escape sequence happens to be shared by RXVT and the console.

Could we at least mention this in the FAQ?


--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

Re: bash and the delete key

[Barry Buchbinder]

> On 31 Jul 2002 at 14:09, Jelks Cabaniss wrote:
> 
> > Barry Buchbinder wrote:
> > 
> > > Regarding "The support of ... are so universal":
 M$
> > > considers their way to be universal, and
considering
> > > their market share, it is closer to being true
than
> > > many of us like.
> > 
> > Universality is somewhat relative. :)  Those
keystrokes were in Windows
> > 3.0 and early OS/2's (and Ctrl+X, C, & V weren't).
> 
> And MS-DOS applications. Lots of them. The editor
that came with 
> later versions of MS-DOS (3.x and above IIRC) for
one; also the 
> qbasic environment.

If we're looking at what M$ used to do, IIRC they used
to publish a Unix clone (Minix?).  But it's been a
long time since one might consider Bill Gates as an
advocate of any flavor of *nix.  :)

I was using ^V in Vi in the mid '80s and constantly
got confused with shift-insert, etc. when I played
with qbasic some years later.  So I know some of the
history.  It's just no longer relevant that M$ used to
put out software that behaved like that -- its been
years since they did so.  My original -- admittedly
unstated -- point was that anyone advocating that M$
change copy, paste, and cut so it behaves a bit like
non-M$ software is likely to spend more time composing
the letter than all of M$ will in considering it.

- Barry

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com

--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

Re: bash and the delete key

[Jelks Cabaniss]

Barry Buchbinder wrote:

> Regarding "The support of ... are so universal":  M$
> considers their way to be universal, and considering
> their market share, it is closer to being true than
> many of us like.

Universality is somewhat relative. :)  Those keystrokes were in Windows
3.0 and early OS/2's (and Ctrl+X, C, & V weren't).  But with Win 3.1,
they adopted the Mac conventions (instead of Cmd+X ... it was Ctrl+X
...) and just kept those old keys for backwards compatibility.  Modern
Win programs don't have Shift+Insert ... on their Edit menus.  

But most people -- especially those using Cygwin! -- don't have a
problem with overloaded CTRL key functions.  When in vi, I certainly
don't expect my NoteTab Pro CTRL keys to work.  :)


/Jelks


--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

Re: bash and the delete key

[Paul Derbyshire]

On 31 Jul 2002 at 14:09, Jelks Cabaniss wrote:

> Barry Buchbinder wrote:
> 
> > Regarding "The support of ... are so universal":  M$
> > considers their way to be universal, and considering
> > their market share, it is closer to being true than
> > many of us like.
> 
> Universality is somewhat relative. :)  Those keystrokes were in Windows
> 3.0 and early OS/2's (and Ctrl+X, C, & V weren't).

And MS-DOS applications. Lots of them. The editor that came with 
later versions of MS-DOS (3.x and above IIRC) for one; also the 
qbasic environment.

--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

RE: bash and the delete key

[Stephan Mueller]

I expect that the old keystrokes will probably be supported pretty much
forever (hmm, does Unix still go into all uppercase mode if you enter
your userid in all caps at login?)

I don't know how universal the old cut/copy/paste keystrokes are, but
Ctrl-C/X/V are universal in Windows apps these days.

I wasn't responding to the message you were responding to (about
Insert), I was responding to yours (about Ctrl-Insert, etc.).  You
suggested that the obsolete Windows keystrokes were a good choice for
use in Cygwin because "if a Windows user were to get in the habit of
using them in Windows then they should be able to use the "correct" keys
by habit".  My objection was to the part were you suggested that Windows
users get into the habit of using the obsolete keys in Windows.

stephan(not necessarily reflecting the views of my employer);


-----Original Message-----
From: Samuel [mailto:samuel@socal.rr.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 7:26 AM
To: cygwin@cygwin.com
Subject: Re: bash and the delete key


If I had things my way, I would encourage Microsoft to discontinue
making the transition in the wrong direction. The support of
Shift+Insert,
Ctrl+Insert and Shift+Delete are so universal that I think there would 
Ctrl+be
significant protest if support was discontinued. I understand that you
are advising not to encourage use of them but notice that I responded to
a recomendation to use "Insert" instead of Shift-Insert. I am surprised
that you did not make a comment on use of plain "Insert". Also not that
my reply was for a discussion in which the Microsoft recommendation is
not possible.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephan Mueller" <smueller@Exchange.Microsoft.com>
To: "Samuel" <samuel@socal.rr.com>; <cygwin@cygwin.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 1:11 PM
Subject: RE: bash and the delete key


Please note that the Ctrl-Insert/Shift-Insert/Shift-Delete keystrokes
are legacy, supported for backwards compatibility.  The modern standard
is indeed Ctrl-C/V/X.

From "The Windows Interface Guidelines for Software Design" (covers
Windows 95 and NT! -- so you know it's not brand new :-)

"The system still supports shortcut assignments available in earlier
versions of Microsoft Windows (Alt+Backspace, Shift+Insert,
Ctrl+Insert, Shift+Delete).  You should consider supporting them (though
not documenting them) to support the transition of users."

(This is a footnote in Appendix B, which documents the standard
shortcuts - Ctrl-C/V/X among them).

As long as folks don't actually make the transition, I suspect the OS
will continue to support them, but please, let's not encourage folks to
make the transition in the wrong direction :-)

stephan();



-----Original Message-----
From: Samuel [mailto:samuel@socal.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 1:03 PM
To: cygwin@cygwin.com
Subject: Re: bash and the delete key


----- Original Message -----
From: "Randall R Schulz" <rrschulz@cris.com>
To: <cygwin@cygwin.com>
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 8:31 PM
Subject: RE: bash and the delete key
>
> Mapping the insert clipboard to the "Insert" key is sufficiently 
> "hella-useful."


I did not pay sufficient attention to what I was doing and this reply
got sent to Randall instead of to the list, so it has been delayed a
day.

I don't use Ctrl-V to insert the clipboard; I use Shift-Insert. I use
Ctrl-Insert to copy to the clipboard and Shift-Delete to cut. These have
been standard since Windows 3.1. I learned to use them by using the
technique of remembering that Ctrl-Insert begins with "C" as in "Copy".
If these keys were used in CygWin and if a Windows user were to get in
the habit of using them in Windows then they should be able to use the
"correct" keys by habit. I have encountered very few situations in which
Ctrl-Insert does not work and in the situations it does not work I did
not even think to try using Ctrl-V. I think that one situation in which
Ctrl-Insert does not work is Adobe Acrobat (the find dialog at least)
and all others are less common; at least less commonly used by me.



--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/




--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/


--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

Re: bash and the delete key

[Samuel]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephan Mueller" <smueller@Exchange.Microsoft.com>
To: "Samuel" <samuel@socal.rr.com>; <cygwin@cygwin.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 10:35 AM
Subject: RE: bash and the delete key

> I don't know how universal the old cut/copy/paste keystrokes are, but
> Ctrl-C/X/V are universal in Windows apps these days.

I am telling you that the "old cut/copy/paste keystrokes" are universal to
the extent that I have never used Ctrl-C/X/V but I use copy and paste at
least a hundred times a day.

> I wasn't responding to the message you were responding to (about
> Insert), I was responding to yours (about Ctrl-Insert, etc.).

I am surprised you did not say anything about using the Insert key alone to
insert the clipboard.



--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

Re: bash and the delete key

[Barry Buchbinder]

Right!  Like M$ is going to help train their users to
do things the *nix way so switching to *nix will be
easier!

Regarding "The support of ... are so universal":  M$
considers their way to be universal, and considering
their market share, it is closer to being true than
many of us like.

- Barry

=================

If I had things my way, I would encourage Microsoft to
discontinue making
the transition in the wrong direction. The support of
Shift+Insert,
Ctrl+Insert and Shift+Delete are so universal that I
think there would be
significant protest if support was discontinued. I
understand that you are
advising not to encourage use of them but notice that
I responded to a
recomendation to use "Insert" instead of Shift-Insert.
I am surprised that
you did not make a comment on use of plain "Insert".
Also not that my reply
was for a discussion in which the Microsoft
recommendation is not possible.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephan Mueller"
<smueller@Exchange.Microsoft.com>
To: "Samuel" <samuel@socal.rr.com>;
<cygwin@cygwin.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 1:11 PM
Subject: RE: bash and the delete key

Please note that the
Ctrl-Insert/Shift-Insert/Shift-Delete keystrokes
are legacy, supported for backwards compatibility. 
The modern standard
is indeed Ctrl-C/V/X.

From "The Windows Interface Guidelines for Software
Design" (covers
Windows 95 and NT! -- so you know it's not brand new
:-)

"The system still supports shortcut assignments
available in
earlier versions of Microsoft Windows (Alt+Backspace,
Shift+Insert,
Ctrl+Insert, Shift+Delete).  You should consider
supporting them (though
not documenting them) to support the transition of
users."

(This is a footnote in Appendix B, which documents the
standard
shortcuts - Ctrl-C/V/X among them).

As long as folks don't actually make the transition, I
suspect the OS
will continue to support them, but please, let's not
encourage folks to
make the transition in the wrong direction :-)

stephan();

-----Original Message-----
From: Samuel [mailto:samuel@socal.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 1:03 PM
To: cygwin@cygwin.com
Subject: Re: bash and the delete key

----- Original Message -----
From: "Randall R Schulz" <rrschulz@cris.com>
To: <cygwin@cygwin.com>
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 8:31 PM
Subject: RE: bash and the delete key
>
> Mapping the insert clipboard to the "Insert" key is
sufficiently
> "hella-useful."

I did not pay sufficient attention to what I was doing
and this reply
got sent to Randall instead of to the list, so it has
been delayed a
day.

I don't use Ctrl-V to insert the clipboard; I use
Shift-Insert. I use
Ctrl-Insert to copy to the clipboard and Shift-Delete
to cut. These have
been standard since Windows 3.1. I learned to use them
by using the
technique of remembering that Ctrl-Insert begins with
"C" as in "Copy".
If these keys were used in CygWin and if a Windows
user were to get in
the habit of using them in Windows then they should be
able to use the
"correct" keys by habit. I have encountered very few
situations in which
Ctrl-Insert does not work and in the situations it
does not work I did
not even think to try using Ctrl-V. I think that one
situation in which
Ctrl-Insert does not work is Adobe Acrobat (the find
dialog at least)
and all others are less common; at least less commonly
used by me.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com

--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

Re: bash and the delete key

[Samuel]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Buchbinder" <bbuchbinder@yahoo.com>
To: <cygwin@cygwin.com>
Cc: <samuel@socal.rr.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 7:57 AM
Subject: Re: bash and the delete key


> Right!  Like M$ is going to help train their users to
> do things the *nix way so switching to *nix will be
> easier!

What "*nix way"? Nothing in my message qualifies, so if you think it does,
then you misunderstood.



--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

RE: bash and the delete key

[Stephan Mueller]

Please note that the Ctrl-Insert/Shift-Insert/Shift-Delete keystrokes
are legacy, supported for backwards compatibility.  The modern standard
is indeed Ctrl-C/V/X.

From "The Windows Interface Guidelines for Software Design" (covers
Windows 95 and NT! -- so you know it's not brand new :-)

	"The system still supports shortcut assignments available in
earlier versions of Microsoft Windows (Alt+Backspace, Shift+Insert,
Ctrl+Insert, Shift+Delete).  You should consider supporting them (though
not documenting them) to support the transition of users."

(This is a footnote in Appendix B, which documents the standard
shortcuts - Ctrl-C/V/X among them).

As long as folks don't actually make the transition, I suspect the OS
will continue to support them, but please, let's not encourage folks to
make the transition in the wrong direction :-)

stephan();



-----Original Message-----
From: Samuel [mailto:samuel@socal.rr.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 1:03 PM
To: cygwin@cygwin.com
Subject: Re: bash and the delete key


----- Original Message -----
From: "Randall R Schulz" <rrschulz@cris.com>
To: <cygwin@cygwin.com>
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 8:31 PM
Subject: RE: bash and the delete key
>
> Mapping the insert clipboard to the "Insert" key is sufficiently 
> "hella-useful."


I did not pay sufficient attention to what I was doing and this reply
got sent to Randall instead of to the list, so it has been delayed a
day.

I don't use Ctrl-V to insert the clipboard; I use Shift-Insert. I use
Ctrl-Insert to copy to the clipboard and Shift-Delete to cut. These have
been standard since Windows 3.1. I learned to use them by using the
technique of remembering that Ctrl-Insert begins with "C" as in "Copy".
If these keys were used in CygWin and if a Windows user were to get in
the habit of using them in Windows then they should be able to use the
"correct" keys by habit. I have encountered very few situations in which
Ctrl-Insert does not work and in the situations it does not work I did
not even think to try using Ctrl-V. I think that one situation in which
Ctrl-Insert does not work is Adobe Acrobat (the find dialog at least)
and all others are less common; at least less commonly used by me.



--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/


--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

RE: bash and the delete key

[Michael Hoffman]

On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, Stephan Mueller wrote:

> From "The Windows Interface Guidelines for Software Design" (covers
> Windows 95 and NT! -- so you know it's not brand new :-)
>
> 	"The system still supports shortcut assignments available in
> earlier versions of Microsoft Windows (Alt+Backspace, Shift+Insert,
> Ctrl+Insert, Shift+Delete).  You should consider supporting them (though
> not documenting them) to support the transition of users."
>
> (This is a footnote in Appendix B, which documents the standard
> shortcuts - Ctrl-C/V/X among them).
>
> As long as folks don't actually make the transition, I suspect the OS
> will continue to support them, but please, let's not encourage folks to
> make the transition in the wrong direction :-)

I find the CUA clipboard shortcuts (e.g. Ctrl-Insert) quite useful, since
there are several applications I use support them OOTB but the ZXCV
shortcuts only with reconfiguration (e.g. rxvt, Quicken 99). On my Linux
box they are also used on X.

If I were going to write a new application I would certainly follow these
guidelines. But I don't see any need not to tell people that Shift-Insert
works for rxvt OOTB. This is a useful piece of information.
-- 
Michael Hoffman <grouse@mail.utexas.edu>
The University of Texas at Austin


--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

Re: bash and the delete key

[Samuel]

If I had things my way, I would encourage Microsoft to discontinue making
the transition in the wrong direction. The support of Shift+Insert,
Ctrl+Insert and Shift+Delete are so universal that I think there would be
significant protest if support was discontinued. I understand that you are
advising not to encourage use of them but notice that I responded to a
recomendation to use "Insert" instead of Shift-Insert. I am surprised that
you did not make a comment on use of plain "Insert". Also not that my reply
was for a discussion in which the Microsoft recommendation is not possible.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephan Mueller" <smueller@Exchange.Microsoft.com>
To: "Samuel" <samuel@socal.rr.com>; <cygwin@cygwin.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 1:11 PM
Subject: RE: bash and the delete key


Please note that the Ctrl-Insert/Shift-Insert/Shift-Delete keystrokes
are legacy, supported for backwards compatibility.  The modern standard
is indeed Ctrl-C/V/X.

From "The Windows Interface Guidelines for Software Design" (covers
Windows 95 and NT! -- so you know it's not brand new :-)

"The system still supports shortcut assignments available in
earlier versions of Microsoft Windows (Alt+Backspace, Shift+Insert,
Ctrl+Insert, Shift+Delete).  You should consider supporting them (though
not documenting them) to support the transition of users."

(This is a footnote in Appendix B, which documents the standard
shortcuts - Ctrl-C/V/X among them).

As long as folks don't actually make the transition, I suspect the OS
will continue to support them, but please, let's not encourage folks to
make the transition in the wrong direction :-)

stephan();



-----Original Message-----
From: Samuel [mailto:samuel@socal.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 1:03 PM
To: cygwin@cygwin.com
Subject: Re: bash and the delete key


----- Original Message -----
From: "Randall R Schulz" <rrschulz@cris.com>
To: <cygwin@cygwin.com>
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 8:31 PM
Subject: RE: bash and the delete key
>
> Mapping the insert clipboard to the "Insert" key is sufficiently
> "hella-useful."


I did not pay sufficient attention to what I was doing and this reply
got sent to Randall instead of to the list, so it has been delayed a
day.

I don't use Ctrl-V to insert the clipboard; I use Shift-Insert. I use
Ctrl-Insert to copy to the clipboard and Shift-Delete to cut. These have
been standard since Windows 3.1. I learned to use them by using the
technique of remembering that Ctrl-Insert begins with "C" as in "Copy".
If these keys were used in CygWin and if a Windows user were to get in
the habit of using them in Windows then they should be able to use the
"correct" keys by habit. I have encountered very few situations in which
Ctrl-Insert does not work and in the situations it does not work I did
not even think to try using Ctrl-V. I think that one situation in which
Ctrl-Insert does not work is Adobe Acrobat (the find dialog at least)
and all others are less common; at least less commonly used by me.



--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/




--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

Re: bash and the delete key

[Joshua Daniel Franklin]

--- Jon LaBadie <jcyg@jgcomp.com> wrote:
> > For example:
> > 
> > # Aliases for Windows equivalents; see 'info fileutils' for differences
> > alias md='mkdir'
> > alias rd='rmdir'
> 
> ARRGH!
> 
> I use cygwin to make my brief as possible stay on windows acceptable.
> I don't see the need to institutionalize the use of windows syntax
> in a unix-like environment.

Well, it's totally up to the maintainer, of course. And, funny thing,
sf.net actually puts these in the default alias file. I don't think they're
running cygwin on win2k servers or anything.

> Next I guess you will want cd /bin to work without a space after cd
> like it does in windows.

Funny, I though that was up to the shell... hmmm, nope, my bash under 
windows doesn't work that way.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com

--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

Re: bash and the delete key

[Joshua Daniel Franklin]

> The next generation of the profile package will, probably,
> have a /etc/skel directory.  When /etc/profile creates a
> home directory it will also copy the contents of /etc/skel
> to that directory.

> I suggest that you take up with the bash maintainer the
> (possible) creation of a /etc/skel/.inputrc file with
> appropriate (default) contents :)

> It might even be possible to add two 'defaults' - a
> /etc/skel/.inputrc (linux like defaults)
> /etc/skel/alt/.inputrc.mimic.windows (or something like)

I think this is a great idea for readline (.inputrc), bash
(.bash_profile), tcsh (.cshrc), etc. Actually I don't see
why they couldn't all be in the 'profile' package, though maybe
that's not exactly correct. Also perhaps these files could be
not just useful but also instructional, with comments pointing
out options, examples, and documentation. For example:

# Aliases for Windows equivalents; see 'info fileutils' for differences
alias md='mkdir'
alias rd='rmdir'


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com

--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

RE: bash and the delete key

[John Morrison]

> From: Joshua Daniel Franklin
> 
> > The next generation of the profile package will, probably,
> > have a /etc/skel directory.  When /etc/profile creates a
> > home directory it will also copy the contents of /etc/skel
> > to that directory.
> 
> > I suggest that you take up with the bash maintainer the
> > (possible) creation of a /etc/skel/.inputrc file with
> > appropriate (default) contents :)
> 
> > It might even be possible to add two 'defaults' - a
> > /etc/skel/.inputrc (linux like defaults)
> > /etc/skel/alt/.inputrc.mimic.windows (or something like)
> 
> I think this is a great idea for readline (.inputrc), bash
> (.bash_profile), tcsh (.cshrc), etc. Actually I don't see
> why they couldn't all be in the 'profile' package, though maybe
> that's not exactly correct.

I'd rather [shell|X|...] specific skeleton files be kept with the
appropriate package, otherwise I'd have _far_ too much to maintain.

I don't mind adding something to the profile script which, given
a xxx.default when there is no xxx cp /etc/skel/xxx.default
/etc/skel/xxx before copying to the users home (if appropriate).

> Also perhaps these files could be
> not just useful but also instructional, with comments pointing
> out options, examples, and documentation. For example:
> 
> # Aliases for Windows equivalents; see 'info fileutils' for differences

I'm making an effort to try and comment all my files (starting
with 1.1-1), if I miss something or get it wrong, please
comment! :)

J.


--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

Re: bash and the delete key

[Tony Fenleish]

Good tip.  Do you see any issues with adding Ctrl-v to it also?

# Make Insert work
"\e[2~":paste-from-clipboard #insert
"\C-v":paste-from-clipboard  #ctrl-V

-Tony

>From: "Gerrit P. Haase" <freeweb@nyckelpiga.de>
>Reply-To: "Gerrit P. Haase" <freeweb@nyckelpiga.de>
>To: "Tony Fenleish" <tleish@hotmail.com>
>CC: derbyshire@globalserve.net, cygwin@cygwin.com
>Subject: Re: bash and the delete key
>Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:37:53 +0200
>
>Tony schrieb:
>
> > Consistent BackSpace and Delete Configuration
> > Bash:
> > http://www.ibb.net/~anne/keyboard/keyboard.html#Bash
>
> > Background on this can be read at:
> > http://www.ibb.net/~anne/keyboard.html
>
>They missed to point out that there are more useful
>options like this:
>
># Make Insert work
>"\e[2~": paste-from-clipboard
>
>Gerrit
>--
>=^..^=
>
>
>--
>Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
>Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
>Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
>FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/
>




_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldÂ’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

Re: bash and the delete key

[Randall R Schulz]

Tony,

Absolutely that's a problem!

CTRL-V is the default assignment for "literal-next" ("lnext") in the TTY driver

Randall Schulz
Mountain View, CA USA


At 07:19 2002-07-26, Tony Fenleish wrote:
>Good tip.  Do you see any issues with adding Ctrl-v to it also?
>
># Make Insert work
>"\e[2~":paste-from-clipboard #insert
>"\C-v":paste-from-clipboard  #ctrl-V
>
>-Tony
>
>>From: "Gerrit P. Haase" <freeweb@nyckelpiga.de>
>>Reply-To: "Gerrit P. Haase" <freeweb@nyckelpiga.de>
>>To: "Tony Fenleish" <tleish@hotmail.com>
>>CC: derbyshire@globalserve.net, cygwin@cygwin.com
>>Subject: Re: bash and the delete key
>>Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:37:53 +0200
>>
>>Tony schrieb:
>>
>> > Consistent BackSpace and Delete Configuration Bash:
>> > http://www.ibb.net/~anne/keyboard/keyboard.html#Bash
>>
>> > Background on this can be read at:
>> > http://www.ibb.net/~anne/keyboard.html
>>
>>They missed to point out that there are more useful options like this:
>>
>># Make Insert work
>>"\e[2~": paste-from-clipboard
>>
>>Gerrit


--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

RE: bash and the delete key

[Gary R. Van Sickle]

> Tony,
>
> Absolutely that's a problem!
>
> CTRL-V is the default assignment for "literal-next" ("lnext") in the
> TTY driver
>

OK, but to people who never knew that, and now that they do can't imagine why
they'd ever need it, is it a problem?  CTRL-V is "paste" in every windows
program since 3.11 days, and it'd be hella-useful to remap it to something one
would actually use.

--
Gary R. Van Sickle
Brewer.  Patriot.


> Randall Schulz
> Mountain View, CA USA
>
>
> At 07:19 2002-07-26, Tony Fenleish wrote:
> >Good tip.  Do you see any issues with adding Ctrl-v to it also?
> >
> ># Make Insert work
> >"\e[2~":paste-from-clipboard #insert
> >"\C-v":paste-from-clipboard  #ctrl-V
> >
> >-Tony
> >
> >>From: "Gerrit P. Haase" <freeweb@nyckelpiga.de>
> >>Reply-To: "Gerrit P. Haase" <freeweb@nyckelpiga.de>
> >>To: "Tony Fenleish" <tleish@hotmail.com>
> >>CC: derbyshire@globalserve.net, cygwin@cygwin.com
> >>Subject: Re: bash and the delete key
> >>Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:37:53 +0200
> >>
> >>Tony schrieb:
> >>
> >> > Consistent BackSpace and Delete Configuration Bash:
> >> > http://www.ibb.net/~anne/keyboard/keyboard.html#Bash
> >>
> >> > Background on this can be read at:
> >> > http://www.ibb.net/~anne/keyboard.html
> >>
> >>They missed to point out that there are more useful options like this:
> >>
> >># Make Insert work
> >>"\e[2~": paste-from-clipboard
> >>
> >>Gerrit
>
>
> --
> Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
> Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
> Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
> FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/
>


--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

RE: bash and the delete key

[Randall R Schulz]

At 20:16 2002-07-26, Some Beer-Swilling Patriot wrote:
> > Tony,
> >
> > Absolutely that's a problem!
> >
> > CTRL-V is the default assignment for "literal-next" ("lnext") in the
> > TTY driver
> >
>
>OK, but to people who never knew that, and now that they do can't imagine why
>they'd ever need it, is it a problem?  CTRL-V is "paste" in every windows
>program since 3.11 days, and it'd be hella-useful to remap it to something one
>would actually use.


Cygwin is not Windows. Cygwin does not aim to adopt Windows conventions 
within its environment, at least not as the default.

People who know what they're doing know what literal next is and does and 
they use it. How do you get a TAB into a command line with completion 
enabled? An ESC? A CTRL-A? CTRL-B? CTRL-C? CTRL-D? CTRL-E? CTRL-T? CTRL-P? 
CTRL-O? CTRL-N? Backslash doesn't handle non-printing characters, only 
literal next makes it possible to enter them on the command line.

Mapping the insert clipboard to the "Insert" key is sufficiently 
"hella-useful."

Randall Schulz
Mountain View, CA USA


--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

RE: bash and the delete key

[Gary R. Van Sickle]

> At 20:16 2002-07-26, Some Beer-Swilling Patriot wrote:
> > > Tony,
> > >
> > > Absolutely that's a problem!
> > >
> > > CTRL-V is the default assignment for "literal-next" ("lnext") in the
> > > TTY driver
> > >
> >
> >OK, but to people who never knew that, and now that they do can't imagine why
> >they'd ever need it, is it a problem?  CTRL-V is "paste" in every windows
> >program since 3.11 days, and it'd be hella-useful to remap it to
> something one
> >would actually use.
>
>
> Cygwin is not Windows.

Then what's the "win" in Cygwin for?

> Cygwin does not aim to adopt Windows conventions
> within its environment,

ls c:

Yep, that works.  A lotta work's gone into the text/binary mess as well.

> at least not as the default.
>

By default it has no default, that's why the subject comes up at all.

> People who know what they're doing know what literal next is and does and
> they use it.

I know what I'm doing.  I've never used it.  The thought that "gee, I wish I
could type goofy characters at the bash prompt" never even crossed my mind.

> How do you get a TAB into a command line with completion
> enabled?

Shrug.  Why would you want to?

> An ESC? A CTRL-A? CTRL-B? CTRL-C? CTRL-D? CTRL-E? CTRL-T? CTRL-P?
> CTRL-O? CTRL-N? Backslash doesn't handle non-printing characters, only
> literal next makes it possible to enter them on the command line.
>
> Mapping the insert clipboard to the "Insert" key is sufficiently
> "hella-useful."

Oh I agree 100%.  But it'd be even nicer if, when I reflexively hit CTRL-V, it'd
do what one would expect it to do on a Windows machine, i.e. paste from the
clipboard.

So I ask again, is remapping CTRL-V going to cause any problems for those who
have no desire to enter tabs on the command line?

--
Gary R. Van Sickle
Brewer.  Patriot.


--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

Re: bash and the delete key

[Samuel]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Randall R Schulz" <rrschulz@cris.com>
To: <cygwin@cygwin.com>
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 8:31 PM
Subject: RE: bash and the delete key
>
> Mapping the insert clipboard to the "Insert" key is sufficiently
> "hella-useful."


I did not pay sufficient attention to what I was doing and this reply got
sent to Randall instead of to the list, so it has been delayed a day.

I don't use Ctrl-V to insert the clipboard; I use Shift-Insert. I use
Ctrl-Insert to copy to the clipboard and Shift-Delete to cut. These have
been standard since Windows 3.1. I learned to use them by using the
technique of remembering that Ctrl-Insert begins with "C" as in "Copy". If
these keys were used in CygWin and if a Windows user were to get in the
habit of using them in Windows then they should be able to use the "correct"
keys by habit. I have encountered very few situations in which Ctrl-Insert
does not work and in the situations it does not work I did not even think to
try using Ctrl-V. I think that one situation in which Ctrl-Insert does not
work is Adobe Acrobat (the find dialog at least) and all others are less
common; at least less commonly used by me.



--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

Re: bash and the delete key

[Igor Pechtchanski]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN, Size: 2400 bytes --]

Ctrl-V is the default escape character to allow entering special
characters on the command line.  If you want to use it for pasting, you
might also want to set the escape character to something else, using
"stty lnext <char>".
	Igor

On Fri, 26 Jul 2002, Tony Fenleish wrote:

> Good tip.  Do you see any issues with adding Ctrl-v to it also?
>
> # Make Insert work
> "\e[2~":paste-from-clipboard #insert
> "\C-v":paste-from-clipboard  #ctrl-V
>
> -Tony
>
> >From: "Gerrit P. Haase" <freeweb@nyckelpiga.de>
> >Reply-To: "Gerrit P. Haase" <freeweb@nyckelpiga.de>
> >To: "Tony Fenleish" <tleish@hotmail.com>
> >CC: derbyshire@globalserve.net, cygwin@cygwin.com
> >Subject: Re: bash and the delete key
> >Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:37:53 +0200
> >
> >Tony schrieb:
> >
> > > Consistent BackSpace and Delete Configuration
> > > Bash:
> > > http://www.ibb.net/~anne/keyboard/keyboard.html#Bash
> >
> > > Background on this can be read at:
> > > http://www.ibb.net/~anne/keyboard.html
> >
> >They missed to point out that there are more useful
> >options like this:
> >
> ># Make Insert work
> >"\e[2~": paste-from-clipboard
> >
> >Gerrit
> >--
> >=^..^=
> >
> >
> >--
> >Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
> >Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
> >Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
> >FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/
> >
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
> --
> Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
> Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
> Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
> FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/
>
>

-- 
				http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/
      |\      _,,,---,,_		pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu
ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_		igor@watson.ibm.com
     |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'		Igor Pechtchanski
    '---''(_/--'  `-'\_) fL	a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-.  Meow!

It took the computational power of three Commodore 64s to fly to the moon.
It takes a 486 to run Windows 95.  Something is wrong here. -- SC sig file


--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

RE: bash and the delete key

[John Morrison]

The next generation of the profile package will, probably,
have a /etc/skel directory.  When /etc/profile creates a
home directory it will also copy the contents of /etc/skel
to that directory.

I suggest that you take up with the bash maintainer the
(possible) creation of a /etc/skel/.inputrc file with 
appropriate (default) contents :)

It might even be possible to add two 'defaults' - a
/etc/skel/.inputrc (linux like defaults)
/etc/skel/alt/.inputrc.mimic.windows (or something like)

then all anyone has to do is rename as they wish...

(note that the profile won't copy recursive atm)

J.


--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

Re: bash and the delete key

[Tony Fenleish]

Consistent BackSpace and Delete Configuration
Bash:
http://www.ibb.net/~anne/keyboard/keyboard.html#Bash

Background on this can be read at:
http://www.ibb.net/~anne/keyboard.html

>From: "Paul Derbyshire" <derbyshire@globalserve.net>
>Reply-To: derbyshire@globalserve.net
>To: cygwin@cygwin.com
>Subject: bash and the delete key
>Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:01:07 -0400
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Received: from sources.redhat.com ([209.249.29.67]) by 
>mc2-f35.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4905); Thu, 25 
>Jul 2002 14:56:51 -0700
>Received: (qmail 18991 invoked by alias); 25 Jul 2002 21:56:37 -0000
>Received: (qmail 18984 invoked from network); 25 Jul 2002 21:56:36 -0000
>Received: from unknown (HELO eurus.primus.ca) (216.254.136.21)  by 
>sources.redhat.com with SMTP; 25 Jul 2002 21:56:36 -0000
>Received: from dialin-209-3.ottawa.primus.ca ([216.254.209.3] 
>helo=derbyshire-a1)by eurus.primus.ca with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #16)id 
>17Xqb5-0000ky-0Afor cygwin@cygwin.com; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 17:56:35 -0400
>Mailing-List: contact cygwin-help@cygwin.com; run by ezmlm
>Precedence: bulk
>List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:cygwin-unsubscribe-tleish=hotmail.com@cygwin.com>
>List-Subscribe: <mailto:cygwin-subscribe@cygwin.com>
>List-Archive: <http://sources.redhat.com/ml/cygwin/>
>List-Post: <mailto:cygwin@cygwin.com>
>List-Help: <mailto:cygwin-help@cygwin.com>, 
><http://sources.redhat.com/ml/#faqs>
>Sender: cygwin-owner@cygwin.com
>Mail-Followup-To: cygwin@cygwin.com
>Delivered-To: mailing list cygwin@cygwin.com
>Message-ID: <3D403CE3.17956.467EDE3A@localhost>
>Priority: normal
>Return-Path: cygwin-return-54973-tleish=hotmail.com@cygwin.com
>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Jul 2002 21:56:52.0198 (UTC) 
>FILETIME=[2F03E060:01C23426]
>
>Cygwin's bash seems not to interpret the delete key correctly. The
>backspace key nukes the character behind the cursor, as expected. The
>del key doesn't nuke the character ahead of the curser however. It
>inserts a tilde instead. I assume this is something related to either
>a bash setting or a terminal setting, but I ran out of clues (read:
>relevant information in obvious places in the bash man page) without
>fixing it a while back.
>
>I might also note that the gmane news server has not been a success
>for me. I tried to get at these lists as apparently gatewayed there,
>and did the news server's registration thing, but after days of xnews
>reporting zero new articles and my own posting-attempt (on that cron
>problem, and which also was used to trigger the registration process)
>not showing up I gave up on gmane. Obviously something went wrong --
>either it's down, or it's allergic to my news client, or the
>registration silently failed in some way and didn't bother to produce
>an error message and information on how to fix the problem. The
>registration confirm message did show up nearly immediately at my
>Hotmail account when I sent the cron related post, and I followed its
>instructions within the hour, so I definitely did nothing obviously
>wrong or clueless...
>
>--
>Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
>Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
>Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
>FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/




_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

Re: bash and the delete key

[Dylan Cuthbert]

Thanks, that was great - I was having a problem with some apps not
recognising the backspace key and that page fixed it with the stty option.

Regards

---------------------------------
Q-Games, Dylan Cuthbert.
http://www.q-games.com


"Tony Fenleish" <tleish@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:F59dRcT92W4cV50vsnb0001d9b0@hotmail.com...
> Consistent BackSpace and Delete Configuration
> Bash:
> http://www.ibb.net/~anne/keyboard/keyboard.html#Bash
>
> Background on this can be read at:
> http://www.ibb.net/~anne/keyboard.html
>
> >From: "Paul Derbyshire" <derbyshire@globalserve.net>
> >Reply-To: derbyshire@globalserve.net
> >To: cygwin@cygwin.com
> >Subject: bash and the delete key
> >Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:01:07 -0400
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >Received: from sources.redhat.com ([209.249.29.67]) by
> >mc2-f35.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4905); Thu, 25
> >Jul 2002 14:56:51 -0700
> >Received: (qmail 18991 invoked by alias); 25 Jul 2002 21:56:37 -0000
> >Received: (qmail 18984 invoked from network); 25 Jul 2002 21:56:36 -0000
> >Received: from unknown (HELO eurus.primus.ca) (216.254.136.21)  by
> >sources.redhat.com with SMTP; 25 Jul 2002 21:56:36 -0000
> >Received: from dialin-209-3.ottawa.primus.ca ([216.254.209.3]
> >helo=derbyshire-a1)by eurus.primus.ca with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #16)id
> >17Xqb5-0000ky-0Afor cygwin@cygwin.com; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 17:56:35 -0400
> >Mailing-List: contact cygwin-help@cygwin.com; run by ezmlm
> >Precedence: bulk
> >List-Unsubscribe:
<mailto:cygwin-unsubscribe-tleish=hotmail.com@cygwin.com>
> >List-Subscribe: <mailto:cygwin-subscribe@cygwin.com>
> >List-Archive: <http://sources.redhat.com/ml/cygwin/>
> >List-Post: <mailto:cygwin@cygwin.com>
> >List-Help: <mailto:cygwin-help@cygwin.com>,
> ><http://sources.redhat.com/ml/#faqs>
> >Sender: cygwin-owner@cygwin.com
> >Mail-Followup-To: cygwin@cygwin.com
> >Delivered-To: mailing list cygwin@cygwin.com
> >Message-ID: <3D403CE3.17956.467EDE3A@localhost>
> >Priority: normal
> >Return-Path: cygwin-return-54973-tleish=hotmail.com@cygwin.com
> >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Jul 2002 21:56:52.0198 (UTC)
> >FILETIME=[2F03E060:01C23426]
> >
> >Cygwin's bash seems not to interpret the delete key correctly. The
> >backspace key nukes the character behind the cursor, as expected. The
> >del key doesn't nuke the character ahead of the curser however. It
> >inserts a tilde instead. I assume this is something related to either
> >a bash setting or a terminal setting, but I ran out of clues (read:
> >relevant information in obvious places in the bash man page) without
> >fixing it a while back.
> >
> >I might also note that the gmane news server has not been a success
> >for me. I tried to get at these lists as apparently gatewayed there,
> >and did the news server's registration thing, but after days of xnews
> >reporting zero new articles and my own posting-attempt (on that cron
> >problem, and which also was used to trigger the registration process)
> >not showing up I gave up on gmane. Obviously something went wrong --
> >either it's down, or it's allergic to my news client, or the
> >registration silently failed in some way and didn't bother to produce
> >an error message and information on how to fix the problem. The
> >registration confirm message did show up nearly immediately at my
> >Hotmail account when I sent the cron related post, and I followed its
> >instructions within the hour, so I definitely did nothing obviously
> >wrong or clueless...
> >
> >--
> >Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
> >Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
> >Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
> >FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>
>
> --
> Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
> Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
> Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
> FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/
>
>




--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

Re: bash and the delete key

[Gerrit P. Haase]

Tony schrieb:

> Consistent BackSpace and Delete Configuration
> Bash:
> http://www.ibb.net/~anne/keyboard/keyboard.html#Bash

> Background on this can be read at:
> http://www.ibb.net/~anne/keyboard.html

They missed to point out that there are more useful
options like this:

# Make Insert work
"\e[2~": paste-from-clipboard

Gerrit
-- 
=^..^=


--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

bash and the delete key

[Paul Derbyshire]

Cygwin's bash seems not to interpret the delete key correctly. The 
backspace key nukes the character behind the cursor, as expected. The 
del key doesn't nuke the character ahead of the curser however. It 
inserts a tilde instead. I assume this is something related to either 
a bash setting or a terminal setting, but I ran out of clues (read: 
relevant information in obvious places in the bash man page) without 
fixing it a while back.

I might also note that the gmane news server has not been a success 
for me. I tried to get at these lists as apparently gatewayed there, 
and did the news server's registration thing, but after days of xnews 
reporting zero new articles and my own posting-attempt (on that cron 
problem, and which also was used to trigger the registration process) 
not showing up I gave up on gmane. Obviously something went wrong -- 
either it's down, or it's allergic to my news client, or the 
registration silently failed in some way and didn't bother to produce 
an error message and information on how to fix the problem. The 
registration confirm message did show up nearly immediately at my 
Hotmail account when I sent the cron related post, and I followed its 
instructions within the hour, so I definitely did nothing obviously 
wrong or clueless...

--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

Re: bash and the delete key

[Randall R Schulz]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 816 bytes --]

Paul,

Add this line to your "$HOME/.inputrc" file:

   "\M-[3~":   delete-char


This escape sequence happens to be shared by RXVT and the console.

To see where there are differences between RXVT and console, you can loot 
at the attached ".inputrc" file, which is the one I use.


Randall Schulz
Mountain View, CA USA


At 15:01 2002-07-25, Paul Derbyshire wrote:
>Cygwin's bash seems not to interpret the delete key correctly. The
>backspace key nukes the character behind the cursor, as expected. The
>del key doesn't nuke the character ahead of the curser however. It
>inserts a tilde instead. I assume this is something related to either
>a bash setting or a terminal setting, but I ran out of clues (read:
>relevant information in obvious places in the bash man page) without
>fixing it a while back.
>
>...

[-- Attachment #2: DOTinputrc --]
[-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 836 bytes --]


# set completion-ignore-case on
# set show-all-if-ambiguous on


# Console:
#	F1 - F5
"\M-[[A"	"fg %1\C-M"
"\M-[[B"	"fg %2\C-M"
"\M-[[C"	"fg %3\C-M"
"\M-[[D"	"fg %4\C-M"
"\M-[[E"	"fg %5\C-M"


# RXVT:
#	F1 - F4
"\M-[11~"	"fg %1\C-M"
"\M-[12~"	"fg %2\C-M"
"\M-[13~"	"fg %3\C-M"
"\M-[14~"	"fg %4\C-M"
"\M-[15~"	"fg %5\C-M"


# Both Console and RXVT:
#	F6 - F12
"\M-[17~"	"fg %6\C-M"
"\M-[18~"	"fg %7\C-M"
"\M-[19~"	"fg %8\C-M"
"\M-[20~"	"fg %9\C-M"
"\M-[21~"	"fg %10\C-M"
"\M-[23~"	"fg %11\C-M"
"\M-[24~"	"fg %-\C-M"


# Console:
	"\M-[1~":	beginning-of-line		# Home
	"\M-[4~":	end-of-line				# End


# RXVT:
	"\M-[7~":	beginning-of-line		# Home
	"\M-[8~":	end-of-line				# End


# Both Console and RXVT:
	"\M-[2~":	paste-from-clipboard	# Insert
#	"\M-[5~"							# Page-Up
	"\M-[3~":	delete-char				# Delete
#	"\M-[6~"							# Page-Down

[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 214 bytes --]

--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

Re: bash and the delete key

[Sylvain Petreolle]

So why don't we provide a default .inputrc with at least this option
enabled ?


 --- Randall R Schulz <rrschulz@cris.com> a écrit : > Paul,
> 
> Add this line to your "$HOME/.inputrc" file:
> 
>    "\M-[3~":   delete-char
> 
> 
> This escape sequence happens to be shared by RXVT and the console.
> 
> To see where there are differences between RXVT and console, you can
> loot 
> at the attached ".inputrc" file, which is the one I use.
> 


___________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français !
Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com

--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

Re: bash and the delete key

[Paul Derbyshire]

On 26 Jul 2002 at 0:55, Sylvain Petreolle wrote:

> So why don't we provide a default .inputrc with at least this option
> enabled ?

For that matter, where is the .inputrc stuff documented? I suppose 
deep in the bash man page, the whole of which I haven't the time or 
inclination to read -- just skimming it for a key phrase takes ten 
minutes.

--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

Re: bash and the delete key

[Michael A Chase]

On Thu, 25 Jul 2002 22:53:56 -0400 Paul Derbyshire <derbyshire@globalserve.net> wrote:

> For that matter, where is the .inputrc stuff documented? I suppose 
> deep in the bash man page, the whole of which I haven't the time or 
> inclination to read -- just skimming it for a key phrase takes ten 
> minutes.

info readline

Following the top level link in `info bash` for Command Line Editing would
lead you to it and actually has enought detail to build yourown .inputrc.

-- 
Mac :})
** I normally forward private questions to the appropriate mail list. **
Ask Smarter: http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Give a hobbit a fish and he eats fish for a day.
Give a hobbit a ring and he eats fish for an age.



--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

RE: bash and the delete key

[Gary R. Van Sickle]

> So why don't we provide a default .inputrc with at least this option
> enabled ?
> 

We should.  For some suitable definition of "we". ;-)

-- 
Gary R. Van Sickle
Brewer.  Patriot. 




--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

Re: bash and the delete key

[Christopher Faylor]

On Thu, Jul 25, 2002 at 06:01:07PM -0400, Paul Derbyshire wrote:
>I might also note that the gmane news server has not been a success 
>for me.

Please take complaints about the gmane news server to the people at
http://gmane.org/ .

The newsgroup service at gmane.org has no affiliation with the cygwin
mailing list or sources.redhat.com, so any problem that you have with
them should be directed to them.

cgf
--
Please do not send me personal email with cygwin questions or
observations.  Use the resources at http://cygwin.com/ .

--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

Re: bash and the delete key

[Paul Derbyshire]

On 25 Jul 2002 at 18:30, Christopher Faylor wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 25, 2002 at 06:01:07PM -0400, Paul Derbyshire wrote:
> >I might also note that the gmane news server has not been a success 
> >for me.
> 
> Please take complaints about the gmane news server to the people at
> http://gmane.org/ .
> 
> The newsgroup service at gmane.org has no affiliation with the cygwin
> mailing list or sources.redhat.com, so any problem that you have with
> them should be directed to them.

Cygwin mailing lists are gatewayed there. I thought they'd be 
interested to know if this gatewaying isn't working perfectly for 
whatever reason. I also thought maybe if this was a known issue or 
problem, you guys'd know about it and maybe know a workaround. And 
last but not least, I had emailed the gmane contact address with a 
query and never saw a response. I would not have bothered the list if 
there had been a response.

--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

Re: bash and the delete key

[Christopher Faylor]

On Thu, Jul 25, 2002 at 10:53:56PM -0400, Paul Derbyshire wrote:
>On 25 Jul 2002 at 18:30, Christopher Faylor wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Jul 25, 2002 at 06:01:07PM -0400, Paul Derbyshire wrote:
>> >I might also note that the gmane news server has not been a success 
>> >for me.
>> 
>> Please take complaints about the gmane news server to the people at
>> http://gmane.org/ .
>> 
>> The newsgroup service at gmane.org has no affiliation with the cygwin
>> mailing list or sources.redhat.com, so any problem that you have with
>> them should be directed to them.
>
>Cygwin mailing lists are gatewayed there.

Yeah, that's kinda obvious.  The fact that someone chose to gateway the
cygwin mailing list there does not mean that they are affiliated with
the cygwin mailing list.

>I thought they'd be interested to know if this gatewaying isn't working
>perfectly for whatever reason.

I seriously doubt that "they" read every mailing list that they gateway.

>I also thought maybe if this was a known issue or problem, you guys'd
>know about it and maybe know a workaround.
>
>And last but not least, I had emailed the gmane contact address with a
>query and never saw a response.  I would not have bothered the list if
>there had been a response.

My reason for responding to you was to inform you that we do not have
anything to do with the gmane news server.  I was trying to make it
clear that the cygwin mailing list is not the appropriate forum for
getting help with or complaining about gmane issues.

I certainly appreciate that you had some kind of thought process which
seemed to make sense to you when you sent your complaint here, but I'm
trying to inform you that cygwin at cygwin dot com is not appropriate for
this discussion.

I'm glad that you did the right thing by contacting the gmane contact
address but the fact that they didn't respond doesn't make the cygwin
mailing list your second point of contact for complaining about
gmane.org.

If you read the mailing list description at http://cygwin.com/lists.html
I think you'll see that there is no exception for complaining about your
experiences with external news servers.

This list sees a lot of traffic.  I don't want to be bogged down in people
discussing problems with external sources of information.  I've tried to
be pretty consistent about this.

In case it isn't clear, I am the moderator of this list.  I am just asking
that you refrain from complaining about gmane.org issues since they are
off-topic here.  Thank you for adhering to my wishes.

cgf

--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Bug reporting:         http://cygwin.com/bugs.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/