RE: Individual vs. list-only replies (Was Re: Force bash to start as administrator)

RE: Individual vs. list-only replies (Was Re: Force bash to start as administrator)

[Pavel Rozenboim]

Just another 2 cents on the issue.

I'm using MS Outlook with MS Exchange Server. Whenever I press reply on any
message from this list, Outlook tryes to send the reply to sender only. It
happens for everyone except messages from Christopher Faylor. It never
happened for me on other mailing lists I participate. It looks that other
mailing list set Reply-To header on every mail they deliver. 

Does anyone have a suggestion how Outlook can be configured to reply to the
list instead of replying to sender?

Pavel.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Igor Pechtchanski [mailto:pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu]
> Sent: Thu, December 12, 2002 2:21 AM
> To: cygwin@cygwin.com
> Subject: Individual vs. list-only replies (Was Re: Force bash to start
> as administrator)
> 
> 
> I don't wish to prolong this thread any more than necessary, 
> so this will
> be my last post on the subject.  Please note that no part of 
> this message
> is intended as an insult (just covering my bases here).
> 
> On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, Andrew DeFaria wrote:
> 
> > Igor Pechtchanski wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, Andrew DeFaria wrote:
> > >
> > >> Please don't email me directly - keep it on the list!
> > >
> > > My mailer (pine) replies to the sender and Cc's to the list unless
> > > there's a Reply-To. Many people aren't subscribed to the list, and
> > > thus would prefer the mail sent directly to them. It is nigh
> > > impossible to keep track of individual preferences, so it helps to
> > > provide a Reply-To header if you want the response to go 
> to the list.
> > > I'm modifying this particular message to go to the list 
> only, but in
> > > the future, as a courtesy to people replying to your 
> messages, please
> > > set a Reply-To header to indicate your preference.
> >
> > Ah and there's the rub. I had previously set Reply-To but I use the
> > gname gateway to news. And when I set Reply-To this breaks the gname
> > gateway and I cannot post though it.
> >
> > IMHO, mail lists are mail lists and if you wish to follow the action
> > then you participate. You state that many people aren't 
> subscribed to
> > the list. As you (and I) do not know how many people are 
> not subscribed
> > vs. how many people are subscribed it's fair to say that 
> many people are
> > subscribed to the list to and do not need additional email. 
> So one could
> > go either way - either always mail back to the list and cc 
> the poster or
> > always mail back to the list and not cc the poster. Who's 
> to say who is
> > more correct? I think, givein that mail lists are supposed to be
> > participtory in nature things should be kept on the list 
> and if people
> > are interested then they will come to the list for answers 
> and subscribe.
> 
> Andrew,
> 
> I would like to point out that most people on this list are 
> busy people,
> and that the most convenient way to reply is the one that 
> takes the least
> effort on their part.  The message that started this 
> discussion used the
> default behavior of pine (reply to author, cc to list - I hit 
> reply, write
> the message, and press send), whereas for this message I 
> actually had to
> explicitly remove your name from the To: line and move the cygwin list
> from Cc: to To:.  I'm only doing this to prove the point now, and will
> most probably not do so in the future.
> 
> > Otherwise I will simply set up a filter to ignore all email 
> from you :-) !
> 
> This is certainly your choice.
> 
> > Again, I don't appreciate getting email that's a copy of 
> what I'll be
> > reading on the list shortly anyway.
> 
> As I mentioned before, the standard way to deal with this (on 
> any mailing
> list) is to use a Reply-To header.  Since your method for reading and
> posting to this list is non-standard (namely, the gmane newsgroup) and
> incompatible with Reply-To, you would need to seek alternate 
> solutions.
> Perhaps someone else using gmane to access mailing lists can 
> be of help.
> 	Igor
> P.S. Also note that, even with your current setup, you can 
> get a double
> copy only if someone replies to a message that you posted.
> 
> -- 
> 				http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/
>       |\      _,,,---,,_		pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu
> ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_		igor@watson.ibm.com
>      |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'		Igor Pechtchanski
>     '---''(_/--'  `-'\_) fL	a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-.  Meow!
> 
> "Water molecules expand as they grow warmer" (C) Popular 
> Science, Oct'02, p.51
> 
> 
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RE: Individual vs. list-only replies (Was Re: Force bash to start as administrator)

[Robert Collins]

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On Mon, 2002-12-16 at 21:18, Pavel Rozenboim wrote:
> Does anyone have a suggestion how Outlook can be configured to reply to the
> list instead of replying to sender?

Uhmm reply-to-all. Or write a macro (and ideally, GPL it :]) .

Rob
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RE: Individual vs. list-only replies (Was Re: Force bash to start as administrator)

[Randall R Schulz]

Hi,

In Eudora CTRL-R replies and shift modifies the "to originator" / "to all 
recipients" mode. There is an application-wide option to control which 
reply mode goes with CTRL-R and which with CTRL-SHIFT-R.

Randall Schulz
Mountain View, CA USA


At 02:19 2002-12-16, Robert Collins wrote:
>On Mon, 2002-12-16 at 21:18, Pavel Rozenboim wrote:
> > Does anyone have a suggestion how Outlook can be configured to reply to the
> > list instead of replying to sender?
>
>Uhmm reply-to-all. Or write a macro (and ideally, GPL it :]) .
>
>Rob


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Re: Individual vs. list-only replies (Was Re: Force bash to start as administrator)

[Christopher Faylor]

On Thu, Dec 12, 2002 at 06:50:13PM -0800, Andrew DeFaria wrote:
>>P.S. Also note that, even with your current setup, you can get a 
>>double copy only if someone replies to a message that you posted.
>
>Again, when others respond I do not get an additional email copy of it. 
>Just with some people. Apparently people who use pine and perhaps some 
>other mailers.

I have to note that your receipt of additional email is really not of
any consequence to the cygwin mailing list.  I can see one admonishment
but a long-running scolding thread is pretty boring.

We've stopped talking about this now, right?

cgf

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Re: Individual vs. list-only replies (Was Re: Force bash to start as administrator)

[Robert Collins]

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On Fri, 2002-12-13 at 13:50, Andrew DeFaria wrote:


> But the issue is not only are people who reply busy but so are the 
> readers. With your software's defaults I get a message in my email AND 
> see it and have to skip it later when I read the list. Thus it is more 
> work for me, hence the request not to do this.

Heh, fix your mail reader. Seriously. It's neither the posters, nor the
list serve's responsibility to reduce duplicates. And given that there
are valid reasons for duplicates (say an issue that affects both
kde-cygwin and general-cygwin discussions), it's up to you to solve the
problem at your end.
 
> As for the path of least inconvenience, if your method was the most 
> popular then I would be receiving email whenever somebody response to 
> one of my posts but I don't. Therefore it sounds to me like this is a 
> pine'ism.

Heh. I use Reply-All. You'll probably see two responses, unless you fix
your mail reader first :}.
 
> Apparently people who use pine and perhaps some 
> other mailers.

I use evolution, and occasionally MS Outlook / MS Outlook Express.
You'll get the same behaviour from me every time.

Rob
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Re: Individual vs. list-only replies (Was Re: Force bash to start as administrator)

[Andrew DeFaria]

Igor Pechtchanski wrote:

> Andrew,
>
> I would like to point out that most people on this list are busy people,

As am I.

> and that the most convenient way to reply is the one that takes the 
> least effort on their part.

In my software I simply hit reply instead of reply all. Either button is 
as easy.

> The message that started this discussion used the default behavior of 
> pine (reply to author, cc to list - I hit reply, write the message, 
> and press send), whereas for this message I actually had to explicitly 
> remove your name from the To: line and move the cygwin list from Cc: 
> to To:. I'm only doing this to prove the point now, and will most 
> probably not do so in the future.

Yes and in my software the default way is to either hit the reply button 
or type Control-R. In order to reply all you need to hit that button or 
Control-Shift-R (i.e. a little more difficult).

But the issue is not only are people who reply busy but so are the 
readers. With your software's defaults I get a message in my email AND 
see it and have to skip it later when I read the list. Thus it is more 
work for me, hence the request not to do this.

As for the path of least inconvenience, if your method was the most 
popular then I would be receiving email whenever somebody response to 
one of my posts but I don't. Therefore it sounds to me like this is a 
pine'ism.

>> Otherwise I will simply set up a filter to ignore all email from you 
>> :-) !
>
>
> This is certainly your choice.

Ploink!

>> Again, I don't appreciate getting email that's a copy of what I'll be 
>> reading on the list shortly anyway.
>
> As I mentioned before, the standard way to deal with this (on any 
> mailing list) is to use a Reply-To header. Since your method for 
> reading and posting to this list is non-standard (namely, the gmane 
> newsgroup) and incompatible with Reply-To, 

It didn't used to be incompatible however the gname maintainer changed 
that behavior.

> you would need to seek alternate solutions.

Yeah, ploink I guess... :-)

> P.S. Also note that, even with your current setup, you can get a 
> double copy only if someone replies to a message that you posted.

Again, when others respond I do not get an additional email copy of it. 
Just with some people. Apparently people who use pine and perhaps some 
other mailers.




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Re: Individual vs. list-only replies (Was Re: Force bash to start as administrator)

[Christopher Faylor]

On Wed, Dec 11, 2002 at 07:21:21PM -0500, Igor Pechtchanski wrote:
>As I mentioned before, the standard way to deal with this (on any mailing
>list) is to use a Reply-To header.  Since your method for reading and
>posting to this list is non-standard (namely, the gmane newsgroup) and
>incompatible with Reply-To, you would need to seek alternate solutions.
>Perhaps someone else using gmane to access mailing lists can be of help.
>	Igor
>P.S. Also note that, even with your current setup, you can get a double
>copy only if someone replies to a message that you posted.

Note that it has been a not-infrequent occurrence for me to receive
personal email from people who *specifically* bypass my Reply-To and add
me to the Cc.  Invariably, they tell me that this is the way "other
mailing lists do it".  It is obviously pretty rude nonetheless.

So anyone who attempts this should be aware that the cygwin clueless
zone rules apply.  It won't be a complete solution.

cgf

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Re: Individual vs. list-only replies (Was Re: Force bash to start as administrator)

[Robert Collins]

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On Thu, 2002-12-12 at 11:21, Igor Pechtchanski wrote:


> > Again, I don't appreciate getting email that's a copy of what I'll be
> > reading on the list shortly anyway.

This needs a note:

Emails have a unique message ID, that mail de-dupers can remove. I don't
get duplicates, even when something goes to 3 or four different mailing
lists. If your email package doesn't do this, get a real one :}.

Anything using qmail, exim or postfix should be able to do this.
MS Exchange server does this.

Cheers,
Rob

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Individual vs. list-only replies (Was Re: Force bash to start as administrator)

[Igor Pechtchanski]

I don't wish to prolong this thread any more than necessary, so this will
be my last post on the subject.  Please note that no part of this message
is intended as an insult (just covering my bases here).

On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, Andrew DeFaria wrote:

> Igor Pechtchanski wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, Andrew DeFaria wrote:
> >
> >> Please don't email me directly - keep it on the list!
> >
> > My mailer (pine) replies to the sender and Cc's to the list unless
> > there's a Reply-To. Many people aren't subscribed to the list, and
> > thus would prefer the mail sent directly to them. It is nigh
> > impossible to keep track of individual preferences, so it helps to
> > provide a Reply-To header if you want the response to go to the list.
> > I'm modifying this particular message to go to the list only, but in
> > the future, as a courtesy to people replying to your messages, please
> > set a Reply-To header to indicate your preference.
>
> Ah and there's the rub. I had previously set Reply-To but I use the
> gname gateway to news. And when I set Reply-To this breaks the gname
> gateway and I cannot post though it.
>
> IMHO, mail lists are mail lists and if you wish to follow the action
> then you participate. You state that many people aren't subscribed to
> the list. As you (and I) do not know how many people are not subscribed
> vs. how many people are subscribed it's fair to say that many people are
> subscribed to the list to and do not need additional email. So one could
> go either way - either always mail back to the list and cc the poster or
> always mail back to the list and not cc the poster. Who's to say who is
> more correct? I think, givein that mail lists are supposed to be
> participtory in nature things should be kept on the list and if people
> are interested then they will come to the list for answers and subscribe.

Andrew,

I would like to point out that most people on this list are busy people,
and that the most convenient way to reply is the one that takes the least
effort on their part.  The message that started this discussion used the
default behavior of pine (reply to author, cc to list - I hit reply, write
the message, and press send), whereas for this message I actually had to
explicitly remove your name from the To: line and move the cygwin list
from Cc: to To:.  I'm only doing this to prove the point now, and will
most probably not do so in the future.

> Otherwise I will simply set up a filter to ignore all email from you :-) !

This is certainly your choice.

> Again, I don't appreciate getting email that's a copy of what I'll be
> reading on the list shortly anyway.

As I mentioned before, the standard way to deal with this (on any mailing
list) is to use a Reply-To header.  Since your method for reading and
posting to this list is non-standard (namely, the gmane newsgroup) and
incompatible with Reply-To, you would need to seek alternate solutions.
Perhaps someone else using gmane to access mailing lists can be of help.
	Igor
P.S. Also note that, even with your current setup, you can get a double
copy only if someone replies to a message that you posted.

-- 
				http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/
      |\      _,,,---,,_		pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu
ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_		igor@watson.ibm.com
     |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'		Igor Pechtchanski
    '---''(_/--'  `-'\_) fL	a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-.  Meow!

"Water molecules expand as they grow warmer" (C) Popular Science, Oct'02, p.51


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