Re: Questions about Cygwin's setup...

Re: Questions about Cygwin's setup...

[Masterson, Dave]

That didn't come out right.  I was not addressing this particularly at
Chris.  The last few messages just seemed to have a bit of an undertone to
them...

I have gotten a few ideas which I'll now consider on how to apply.

-----Original Message-----
From: Masterson, Dave 
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 12:38 PM
To: 'cygwin@cygwin.com'
Subject: RE: Questions about Cygwin's setup...


Hmmm.  Was I being offensive in what I said?  If so, I didn't mean to be.  I
only thought I was asking some questions about setup and expanding on my
reasoning for those questions.  My hope was simply that maybe someone would
say "oh, you could do that this way."  Failing that, I'd go look at how I
want to install Cygwin more and see what I could hack up.

-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Faylor [ mailto:cgf@redhat.com ]
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 12:16 PM
To: cygwin@cygwin.com
Subject: Re: Questions about Cygwin's setup...


On Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 12:04:30PM -0800, Masterson, Dave wrote:
>Oh.  Yeah, I could do that, but it seems to be a bit of overkill.  I mean I
>think the steps you are suggesting are:
>
>* Wget automatically mirrors *.tar.gz files from sources.redhat.com (or
>mirror).
>
>* I occassionally use Setup.exe to unpackage the new *.tar.gz's and update
>my central area.
>
>It would seem that it would be just as easy to use Setup for both steps...?

As DJ has indicated, it is not easy to have an executable update itself in
Windows.

Earnie's method will work.  Since setup.exe requires human intervention
to run, you really don't have a choice as far as automating anything is
concerned.

Unless you are willing to make the modifications to setup.exe yourself,
speculating on what "would be nice" is not going to get your problem
solved.

cgf

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RE: Questions about Cygwin's setup...

[Robinow, David]

> I am trying to redirect my cygwin messages to my cygwin mail folder
> as they arrive.  The filters for MS Outlook would seem to be too lame
> to handle this pattern.  Does anyone know how to solve this problem?

 Apply this rule after the message arrives
 with cygwin in the message header
 move it to the cygwin folder

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Re: Questions about Cygwin's setup...

[Paul Garceau]

On 24 Jan 2001, at 21:17, the Illustrious DJ Delorie wrote:

> 
> > > *       Does Setup remove old files during update?
> > 
> > Yes.
> 
> OK, I'm going to qualify this.  It does remove installed files that are
> obsoleted by new versions of packages.  It does not remove the tarballs
> corresponding to old installations when new tarballs are downloaded.

	In other words, if you install from the internet, the tarballs are not 
removed by setup.exe, and instead are left wherever you started 
setup.exe from.

	(I always install from the internet, seems to work best -- if I choose 
to eliminate the tarballs, a simple windows "deltree" from an msdos 
prompt will take them all out for as long as they are all under the 
same "parent" directory.)

	For example:

		Installing from internet after downloading "setup.exe" to directory 
"<driveRef:\>temp\CygwinSetup" will yield all the latest tarballs and 
_overwrite_ any _existing_ tarballs and add any locally non-existent 
tarballs to "<driveRef:\>temp\CygwinSetup", depending on configuration 
of "setup.exe".  When local installation is initialized by "setup.exe", 
"setup.exe" assumes "<driveRef:\>temp\CygwinSetup" as _local_ 
installation directory.

	Peace,

		Paul G.
> 
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> 




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RE: Questions about Cygwin's setup...

[Dan Lipofsky]

> > Hmmm.  The cygwin mailer does some strange things with Reply-to.  Your
> > message has a Reply-to of "Earnie Boyd <cygwin@cygwin.com>".  Is this
> > intentional?
> 
> Users do this to avoid getting personal replies.  It keeps the
> topic in the forum.

I am trying to redirect my cygwin messages to my cygwin mail folder
as they arrive.  The filters for MS Outlook would seem to be too lame
to handle this pattern.  Does anyone know how to solve this problem?
- Dan

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RE: Questions about Cygwin's setup...

[Masterson, Dave]

Hmmm.  Was I being offensive in what I said?  If so, I didn't mean to be.  I
only thought I was asking some questions about setup and expanding on my
reasoning for those questions.  My hope was simply that maybe someone would
say "oh, you could do that this way."  Failing that, I'd go look at how I
want to install Cygwin more and see what I could hack up.

-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Faylor [ mailto:cgf@redhat.com ]
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 12:16 PM
To: cygwin@cygwin.com
Subject: Re: Questions about Cygwin's setup...


On Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 12:04:30PM -0800, Masterson, Dave wrote:
>Oh.  Yeah, I could do that, but it seems to be a bit of overkill.  I mean I
>think the steps you are suggesting are:
>
>* Wget automatically mirrors *.tar.gz files from sources.redhat.com (or
>mirror).
>
>* I occassionally use Setup.exe to unpackage the new *.tar.gz's and update
>my central area.
>
>It would seem that it would be just as easy to use Setup for both steps...?

As DJ has indicated, it is not easy to have an executable update itself in
Windows.

Earnie's method will work.  Since setup.exe requires human intervention
to run, you really don't have a choice as far as automating anything is
concerned.

Unless you are willing to make the modifications to setup.exe yourself,
speculating on what "would be nice" is not going to get your problem
solved.

cgf

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RE: Questions about Cygwin's setup...

[Larry Hall (RFK Partners, Inc)]

OK, I think we all get it now.  You'd like setup to do more.  That's the 
tie-in to Cygwin.  You think that its not only the problem but should be 
the solution.  That's fine.  In case you weren't sure, setup is open source
as well, so you're free to alter it to accomplish anything you want.  Feel
free to give it a try if you want.  Beyond this, I don't know what to tell
you.  As far as I can see, this thread is at an end unless someone wants to
pick up on the comments that you made and try to address them in some way
(with or without setup).  

Larry Hall                              lhall@rfk.com
RFK Partners, Inc.                      http://www.rfk.com
118 Washington Street                   (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office
Holliston, MA 01746                     (508) 893-9889 - FAX



At 02:52 PM 1/25/2001, Masterson, Dave wrote:
>Well, strictly speaking, I am not a Windows system administrator -- actually
>I'm a UNIX developer who happens to be working in a Windows group at the
>moment.  I was just considering introducing a UNIX environment to the group
>(they already have a messy MKS environment) in as low maintenance an
>approach as possible.  My previous message was just a couple of ideas that
>would make that easier.
>
>With respect to managing packages on a Windows system, what I've seen done
>by others is to put the installable packages (usually copies of the
>package's original CD) up on some central share somewhere and then leave it
>to the individual local system admins (usually the user of that system) to
>install and maintain the package on the system.  In this sense, network
>shares in Windows-NT are often used in the opposite manner of NFS mounts in
>UNIX (ie. the shares hold centralized data whereas the NFS mounts hold
>centralized programs).  For the most part, this is often forced by the
>licensing and installation structure of these packages (ie. single-user,
>single-machine licenses).
>
>Cygwin and all the GNU tools, though, are open-source (free source?)
>products and, so, shouldn't suffer from the strictures of a copyright
>license.  I have installed a great many of these GNU tools on a central UNIX
>server and made them available to many UNIX systems (all they had to do was
>mount the drive and adjust their PATH).  In fact, I have a Perl package
>around here somewhere that allowed me to maintain multiple versions of the
>installed packages so as to allow developers to test against old versions of
>tools if they needed (it also addressed the "clean" uninstall issue).  From
>what I can see of the Cygwin environment, it is very close to having this
>capability as well.  My original questions concerning what Setup.exe does
>with respect to the registry and such were to find out how close.
>
>Another post suggested a slightly kludgy way of doing what I want (I'm still
>thinking about how to apply it).  However, the post at least confirms that
>other people want to do what I'm suggesting and have investigated ways to
>workaround the current Setup.exe to do it.  Ultimately, though, I think
>Setup.exe package should facilitate this type of a setup (or, at least, not
>do anything to get in the way).  In that, I think the "nice to haves" would
>be:
>
>* a command line tool that would create the necessary registry entries for
>Cygwin (so that it can be put into a batch script for all the users to run).
>
>* a "setup" package that could be kept local and updated like any other
>package.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Christopher Faylor [ mailto:cgf@redhat.com ]
>Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 10:36 AM
>To: cygwin@cygwin.com
>Subject: Re: Questions about Cygwin's setup...
>
>
>You know, this really isn't specifically a Cygwin issue.  If you are a
>administering a number of Windows systems on a network, how do you deal
>with this normally?  Most Windows packages do something to the registry.
>Most Windows packages are updated from time to time.  How would you deal
>with this issue with other Windows packages?
>
>Maybe you need to do a google.com or deja.com search and see what kind
>of solutions are available out there.
>
>cgf
>
>On Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 10:35:43AM -0800, Masterson, Dave wrote:
> >Hmmm.  Wget is not a complete answer.  What if my "user" doesn't want to
> >mirror it on his system because he feels the network access to the server
>is
> >fast enough?  Also, there is still the issue of the registry entries
> >(remember, I'm not "installing" it on the user's system).
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Earnie Boyd [ mailto:earnie_boyd@yahoo.com ]
> >Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 7:21 PM
> >To: Masterson, Dave
> >Cc: 'Earnie Boyd'
> >Subject: Re: Questions about Cygwin's setup...
> >
> >
> >"Masterson, Dave" wrote:
> >> 
> >> Hmmm.  The cygwin mailer does some strange things with Reply-to.  Your
> >> message has a Reply-to of "Earnie Boyd <cygwin@cygwin.com>".  Is this
> >> intentional?
> >> 
> >
> >Yes, it is intentional.  It's a means of keeping it in the forum and
> >avoiding private conversation.
> >
> >> With respect to my message, it should be obvious that I'm trying to setup
> >a
> >> "minimum" install of Cygwin.  My thought was that, since only I in my
> >group
> >> pay attention to what goes on with Cygwin, I could maintain a central
>area
> >> where Cygwin is.  
> >
> >Understandable.
> >
> >> I suppose I could send out occassional messages that say
> >> something like "rerun \\my\setup.exe to update your Cygwin", but it would
> >be
> >> much better if it just happened automatically.  
> >
> >I thought you were setting up Cygwin itself centrally.  Once setup the
> >local workstation would then not need changed.
> >
> >> Thus the idea of a pre-setup
> >> central share that I (the Cygwin admin) maintain.  Also, if the speed of
> >the
> >> central share, it probably wouldn't be hard to make a batch script to
> >mirror
> >> it to a local drive (which I might write).
> >> 
> >
> >Use wget to mirror.
> >
> >> With respect to your answers:
> >> 
> >> * Why not make setup a package (say "cygwinsetup") like all the rest so
> >that
> >> it could potentially update itself?
> >> 
> >
> >Just use wget.  Setup a cron job to run weekly or what ever frequency
> >you desire.
> >
> >Cheers,
> >Earnie.
> >
> >_________________________________________________________
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >--
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>
>-- 
>cgf@cygnus.com                        Red Hat, Inc.
> http://sources.redhat.com/            http://www.redhat.com/
>
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Re: Questions about Cygwin's setup...

[Christopher Faylor]

On Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 12:04:30PM -0800, Masterson, Dave wrote:
>Oh.  Yeah, I could do that, but it seems to be a bit of overkill.  I mean I
>think the steps you are suggesting are:
>
>* Wget automatically mirrors *.tar.gz files from sources.redhat.com (or
>mirror).
>
>* I occassionally use Setup.exe to unpackage the new *.tar.gz's and update
>my central area.
>
>It would seem that it would be just as easy to use Setup for both steps...?

As DJ has indicated, it is not easy to have an executable update itself in
Windows.

Earnie's method will work.  Since setup.exe requires human intervention
to run, you really don't have a choice as far as automating anything is
concerned.

Unless you are willing to make the modifications to setup.exe yourself,
speculating on what "would be nice" is not going to get your problem
solved.

cgf

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Re: Questions about Cygwin's setup...

[Christopher Faylor]

On Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 11:52:44AM -0800, Masterson, Dave wrote:
>Well, strictly speaking, I am not a Windows system administrator --
>actually I'm a UNIX developer who happens to be working in a Windows
>group at the moment.  I was just considering introducing a UNIX
>environment to the group (they already have a messy MKS environment) in
>as low maintenance an approach as possible.  My previous message was
>just a couple of ideas that would make that easier.

And...?  This still doesn't invalidate my suggestion of seeing how other
people do it in generic Windows land.

>With respect to managing packages on a Windows system, what I've seen
>done by others is to put the installable packages (usually copies of
>the package's original CD) up on some central share somewhere and then
>leave it to the individual local system admins (usually the user of
>that system) to install and maintain the package on the system.  In
>this sense, network shares in Windows-NT are often used in the opposite
>manner of NFS mounts in UNIX (ie.  the shares hold centralized data
>whereas the NFS mounts hold centralized programs).  For the most part,
>this is often forced by the licensing and installation structure of
>these packages (ie.  single-user, single-machine licenses).

Since you're not a Windows administrator, why are you making
pronouncements on how stuff is down in Windows environments?

>Another post suggested a slightly kludgy way of doing what I want (I'm
>still thinking about how to apply it).  However, the post at least
>confirms that other people want to do what I'm suggesting and have
>investigated ways to workaround the current Setup.exe to do it.

I don't see what the "workaround" is.  I've seen people suggest ways for
doing what you want to do.  You need to do some extra stuff in addition
to what setup.exe was designed to do.

>Ultimately, though, I think
>Setup.exe package should facilitate this type of a setup (or, at least, not
>do anything to get in the way).

I must have missed something because I don't see how setup.exe is
getting in the way.  Is it because it can potentially add mount info to
the registry?  Or is it because it can't update itself?  I don't see
either as very big issues.  You certainly have enough tools available
to you to deal with either issue without having to modify setup.exe.

>In that, I think the "nice to haves" would be:
>
>* a command line tool that would create the necessary registry entries
>for Cygwin (so that it can be put into a batch script for all the users
>to run).

It's already in the cygwin distribution.  It is called "mount.exe".

>* a "setup" package that could be kept local and updated like any other
>package.

Don't know what you mean here.  I don't see why it is a big deal to
download the setup.exe program when you need it.  I guess I also don't
see the real need to keep everything completely up to date with the net.
Just download setup.exe on a weekly basis and use it to update your
installation.

cgf

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RE: Questions about Cygwin's setup...

[Masterson, Dave]

Oh.  Yeah, I could do that, but it seems to be a bit of overkill.  I mean I
think the steps you are suggesting are:

* Wget automatically mirrors *.tar.gz files from sources.redhat.com (or
mirror).

* I occassionally use Setup.exe to unpackage the new *.tar.gz's and update
my central area.

It would seem that it would be just as easy to use Setup for both steps...?

-----Original Message-----
From: Earnie Boyd [ mailto:earnie_boyd@yahoo.com ]
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 10:46 AM
To: Masterson, Dave
Cc: 'Earnie Boyd'
Subject: Re: Questions about Cygwin's setup...


"Masterson, Dave" wrote:
> 
> Hmmm.  Wget is not a complete answer.  What if my "user" doesn't want to
> mirror it on his system because he feels the network access to the server
is
> fast enough?  Also, there is still the issue of the registry entries
> (remember, I'm not "installing" it on the user's system).
> 

I was suggesting the the "Cygwin Administrator" use wget to mirror
Cygwin for the "Central Repository" to get the most up to date
versions.  The "Cygwin Administrator" would then update the "Central
Repository".  I wasn't suggesting that every user mirror Cygwin, that
wouldn't be necessary.

Earnie.

_________________________________________________________
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RE: Questions about Cygwin's setup...

[Masterson, Dave]

Well, strictly speaking, I am not a Windows system administrator -- actually
I'm a UNIX developer who happens to be working in a Windows group at the
moment.  I was just considering introducing a UNIX environment to the group
(they already have a messy MKS environment) in as low maintenance an
approach as possible.  My previous message was just a couple of ideas that
would make that easier.

With respect to managing packages on a Windows system, what I've seen done
by others is to put the installable packages (usually copies of the
package's original CD) up on some central share somewhere and then leave it
to the individual local system admins (usually the user of that system) to
install and maintain the package on the system.  In this sense, network
shares in Windows-NT are often used in the opposite manner of NFS mounts in
UNIX (ie. the shares hold centralized data whereas the NFS mounts hold
centralized programs).  For the most part, this is often forced by the
licensing and installation structure of these packages (ie. single-user,
single-machine licenses).

Cygwin and all the GNU tools, though, are open-source (free source?)
products and, so, shouldn't suffer from the strictures of a copyright
license.  I have installed a great many of these GNU tools on a central UNIX
server and made them available to many UNIX systems (all they had to do was
mount the drive and adjust their PATH).  In fact, I have a Perl package
around here somewhere that allowed me to maintain multiple versions of the
installed packages so as to allow developers to test against old versions of
tools if they needed (it also addressed the "clean" uninstall issue).  From
what I can see of the Cygwin environment, it is very close to having this
capability as well.  My original questions concerning what Setup.exe does
with respect to the registry and such were to find out how close.

Another post suggested a slightly kludgy way of doing what I want (I'm still
thinking about how to apply it).  However, the post at least confirms that
other people want to do what I'm suggesting and have investigated ways to
workaround the current Setup.exe to do it.  Ultimately, though, I think
Setup.exe package should facilitate this type of a setup (or, at least, not
do anything to get in the way).  In that, I think the "nice to haves" would
be:

* a command line tool that would create the necessary registry entries for
Cygwin (so that it can be put into a batch script for all the users to run).

* a "setup" package that could be kept local and updated like any other
package.

-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Faylor [ mailto:cgf@redhat.com ]
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 10:36 AM
To: cygwin@cygwin.com
Subject: Re: Questions about Cygwin's setup...


You know, this really isn't specifically a Cygwin issue.  If you are a
administering a number of Windows systems on a network, how do you deal
with this normally?  Most Windows packages do something to the registry.
Most Windows packages are updated from time to time.  How would you deal
with this issue with other Windows packages?

Maybe you need to do a google.com or deja.com search and see what kind
of solutions are available out there.

cgf

On Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 10:35:43AM -0800, Masterson, Dave wrote:
>Hmmm.  Wget is not a complete answer.  What if my "user" doesn't want to
>mirror it on his system because he feels the network access to the server
is
>fast enough?  Also, there is still the issue of the registry entries
>(remember, I'm not "installing" it on the user's system).
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Earnie Boyd [ mailto:earnie_boyd@yahoo.com ]
>Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 7:21 PM
>To: Masterson, Dave
>Cc: 'Earnie Boyd'
>Subject: Re: Questions about Cygwin's setup...
>
>
>"Masterson, Dave" wrote:
>> 
>> Hmmm.  The cygwin mailer does some strange things with Reply-to.  Your
>> message has a Reply-to of "Earnie Boyd <cygwin@cygwin.com>".  Is this
>> intentional?
>> 
>
>Yes, it is intentional.  It's a means of keeping it in the forum and
>avoiding private conversation.
>
>> With respect to my message, it should be obvious that I'm trying to setup
>a
>> "minimum" install of Cygwin.  My thought was that, since only I in my
>group
>> pay attention to what goes on with Cygwin, I could maintain a central
area
>> where Cygwin is.  
>
>Understandable.
>
>> I suppose I could send out occassional messages that say
>> something like "rerun \\my\setup.exe to update your Cygwin", but it would
>be
>> much better if it just happened automatically.  
>
>I thought you were setting up Cygwin itself centrally.  Once setup the
>local workstation would then not need changed.
>
>> Thus the idea of a pre-setup
>> central share that I (the Cygwin admin) maintain.  Also, if the speed of
>the
>> central share, it probably wouldn't be hard to make a batch script to
>mirror
>> it to a local drive (which I might write).
>> 
>
>Use wget to mirror.
>
>> With respect to your answers:
>> 
>> * Why not make setup a package (say "cygwinsetup") like all the rest so
>that
>> it could potentially update itself?
>> 
>
>Just use wget.  Setup a cron job to run weekly or what ever frequency
>you desire.
>
>Cheers,
>Earnie.
>
>_________________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>--
>Want to unsubscribe from this list?
>Check out: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple

-- 
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Re: Questions about Cygwin's setup...

[Earnie Boyd]

"Masterson, Dave" wrote:
> 
> Hmmm.  Wget is not a complete answer.  What if my "user" doesn't want to
> mirror it on his system because he feels the network access to the server is
> fast enough?  Also, there is still the issue of the registry entries
> (remember, I'm not "installing" it on the user's system).
> 

I was suggesting the the "Cygwin Administrator" use wget to mirror
Cygwin for the "Central Repository" to get the most up to date
versions.  The "Cygwin Administrator" would then update the "Central
Repository".  I wasn't suggesting that every user mirror Cygwin, that
wouldn't be necessary.

Earnie.

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


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Re: Questions about Cygwin's setup...

[Christopher Faylor]

You know, this really isn't specifically a Cygwin issue.  If you are a
administering a number of Windows systems on a network, how do you deal
with this normally?  Most Windows packages do something to the registry.
Most Windows packages are updated from time to time.  How would you deal
with this issue with other Windows packages?

Maybe you need to do a google.com or deja.com search and see what kind
of solutions are available out there.

cgf

On Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 10:35:43AM -0800, Masterson, Dave wrote:
>Hmmm.  Wget is not a complete answer.  What if my "user" doesn't want to
>mirror it on his system because he feels the network access to the server is
>fast enough?  Also, there is still the issue of the registry entries
>(remember, I'm not "installing" it on the user's system).
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Earnie Boyd [ mailto:earnie_boyd@yahoo.com ]
>Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 7:21 PM
>To: Masterson, Dave
>Cc: 'Earnie Boyd'
>Subject: Re: Questions about Cygwin's setup...
>
>
>"Masterson, Dave" wrote:
>> 
>> Hmmm.  The cygwin mailer does some strange things with Reply-to.  Your
>> message has a Reply-to of "Earnie Boyd <cygwin@cygwin.com>".  Is this
>> intentional?
>> 
>
>Yes, it is intentional.  It's a means of keeping it in the forum and
>avoiding private conversation.
>
>> With respect to my message, it should be obvious that I'm trying to setup
>a
>> "minimum" install of Cygwin.  My thought was that, since only I in my
>group
>> pay attention to what goes on with Cygwin, I could maintain a central area
>> where Cygwin is.  
>
>Understandable.
>
>> I suppose I could send out occassional messages that say
>> something like "rerun \\my\setup.exe to update your Cygwin", but it would
>be
>> much better if it just happened automatically.  
>
>I thought you were setting up Cygwin itself centrally.  Once setup the
>local workstation would then not need changed.
>
>> Thus the idea of a pre-setup
>> central share that I (the Cygwin admin) maintain.  Also, if the speed of
>the
>> central share, it probably wouldn't be hard to make a batch script to
>mirror
>> it to a local drive (which I might write).
>> 
>
>Use wget to mirror.
>
>> With respect to your answers:
>> 
>> * Why not make setup a package (say "cygwinsetup") like all the rest so
>that
>> it could potentially update itself?
>> 
>
>Just use wget.  Setup a cron job to run weekly or what ever frequency
>you desire.
>
>Cheers,
>Earnie.
>
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RE: Questions about Cygwin's setup...

[Masterson, Dave]

Hmmm.  Wget is not a complete answer.  What if my "user" doesn't want to
mirror it on his system because he feels the network access to the server is
fast enough?  Also, there is still the issue of the registry entries
(remember, I'm not "installing" it on the user's system).

-----Original Message-----
From: Earnie Boyd [ mailto:earnie_boyd@yahoo.com ]
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 7:21 PM
To: Masterson, Dave
Cc: 'Earnie Boyd'
Subject: Re: Questions about Cygwin's setup...


"Masterson, Dave" wrote:
> 
> Hmmm.  The cygwin mailer does some strange things with Reply-to.  Your
> message has a Reply-to of "Earnie Boyd <cygwin@cygwin.com>".  Is this
> intentional?
> 

Yes, it is intentional.  It's a means of keeping it in the forum and
avoiding private conversation.

> With respect to my message, it should be obvious that I'm trying to setup
a
> "minimum" install of Cygwin.  My thought was that, since only I in my
group
> pay attention to what goes on with Cygwin, I could maintain a central area
> where Cygwin is.  

Understandable.

> I suppose I could send out occassional messages that say
> something like "rerun \\my\setup.exe to update your Cygwin", but it would
be
> much better if it just happened automatically.  

I thought you were setting up Cygwin itself centrally.  Once setup the
local workstation would then not need changed.

> Thus the idea of a pre-setup
> central share that I (the Cygwin admin) maintain.  Also, if the speed of
the
> central share, it probably wouldn't be hard to make a batch script to
mirror
> it to a local drive (which I might write).
> 

Use wget to mirror.

> With respect to your answers:
> 
> * Why not make setup a package (say "cygwinsetup") like all the rest so
that
> it could potentially update itself?
> 

Just use wget.  Setup a cron job to run weekly or what ever frequency
you desire.

Cheers,
Earnie.

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RE: Questions about Cygwin's setup...

[Christopher Abbey]

Dave,
	We do something like that at work... there is one installed tree
out on the LAN (equivalent of c:\cygwin\, call it n:\cygwin_cur\ *) that
we all mount stuff out of. This then can be updated by any of us, and
everyone gets the new code. The only problem we've really seen is if
I'm running something and you want to update it you're SOL because
I've got the dlls locked. The "solution" to this was to move to a
readonly file system to access the files, and a second share that was
read-write to update them. This works nearly 100%, the problem that
has sometimes been seen is that if I have a dll loaded and one it
depends on gets replaced with an incompatible version before I load
it... kaboom. The solution to this that some of us have adopted is
that instead of remotely mounting the network share, we periodically
mirror a local copy.
	The setup method we use to get a new machine going into this
environment is basically to run setup but not install anything (like
DJ suggested, run it in an empty dir and say install from local). Then
mount /bin, /lib, /sbin, /usr, /usr/bin, /usr/lib, and a couple local
directories to the right network mount point, shallow copy /etc, make
/tmp and /var and finally remount / to our local directory.

(* in reality there are two, _cur and _tst ;)

	That said, I have a prefered method I use at home to keep my
three machines happy. Setup a network share to keep the tarballs in,
periodically use the download from internet option to refresh that
collection (and unless you've got the space, periodically manually weed
out the old tarballs.) and save a copy of setup.exe in that location.
If you want you could use mirror or something to keep it up todate.
Also create a directory called "isCurrent" (or whatever).
	Then do an install on each machine by running setup from the
share, and using UNC for the paths with the install from local directroy.
After you've done the initial setup you can update automatically like
this:

if exist \\computer\share\cygwin\isCurrent\%COMPUTERNAME% goto :amCurrent
net stop inetd
\\computer\share\cygwin\setup.exe
echo "" > \\computer\share\cygwin\isCurrent\%COMPUTERNAME%
net start inetd
:amCurrent

personally I have this in the top of the cygwin.bat file
so it checks the currency whenever I start cygwin. You could also
put this in a manualy executed file, although I'd remove the if test
for that (but not the creation of the file). Obviously the inetd
stuff can be removed if you don't have it on the machine, and know 
you won't be putting it on (or will remember to put it back if you
do). Oh, and in case it isn't obvious you would delete all the files in
the isCurrent directory when you update the tarballs on the server,
or at least when you do major updates. and the use of UNC everywhere
allows you to do this without tying up some driver letter with a
mount point, in a multi user environment you're bound to piss off
someone that doesn't want you taking any letters away from them.
(there's a guy down the hall at work that has 25 drive letters in use,
he'd have all 26 if he could just make use of b:... ;)  speaking
of multi user... if it were my tree I'd make all but isCurrent ro.

	I hope that give you some ideas... to answer your basic question,
yeah, it's doable....

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Re: Questions about Cygwin's setup...

[Earnie Boyd]

"Masterson, Dave" wrote:
> 
> Hmmm.  The cygwin mailer does some strange things with Reply-to.  Your
> message has a Reply-to of "Earnie Boyd <cygwin@cygwin.com>".  Is this
> intentional?
> 

Yes, it is intentional.  It's a means of keeping it in the forum and
avoiding private conversation.

> With respect to my message, it should be obvious that I'm trying to setup a
> "minimum" install of Cygwin.  My thought was that, since only I in my group
> pay attention to what goes on with Cygwin, I could maintain a central area
> where Cygwin is.  

Understandable.

> I suppose I could send out occassional messages that say
> something like "rerun \\my\setup.exe to update your Cygwin", but it would be
> much better if it just happened automatically.  

I thought you were setting up Cygwin itself centrally.  Once setup the
local workstation would then not need changed.

> Thus the idea of a pre-setup
> central share that I (the Cygwin admin) maintain.  Also, if the speed of the
> central share, it probably wouldn't be hard to make a batch script to mirror
> it to a local drive (which I might write).
> 

Use wget to mirror.

> With respect to your answers:
> 
> * Why not make setup a package (say "cygwinsetup") like all the rest so that
> it could potentially update itself?
> 

Just use wget.  Setup a cron job to run weekly or what ever frequency
you desire.

Cheers,
Earnie.

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Re: Questions about Cygwin's setup...

[DJ Delorie]

> Hmmm.  The cygwin mailer does some strange things with Reply-to.  Your
> message has a Reply-to of "Earnie Boyd <cygwin@cygwin.com>".  Is this
> intentional?

Users do this to avoid getting personal replies.  It keeps the
topic in the forum.

> With respect to my message, it should be obvious that I'm trying to
> setup a "minimum" install of Cygwin.

You should be able to do this.  It's rare that the mount table format
and shortcuts (the only machine-specific parts) change.

> * Why not make setup a package (say "cygwinsetup") like all the rest so that
> it could potentially update itself?

We recommend you run setup from the cygwin home page.  It's not big.
Setup can detect when a new version is available, and you'd want that
new version *before* you run setup, not after.  Plus, it's not trivial
to coordinate downloading and installing a new version of the program
you're currently running, then restarting it and remembering your
choices (assuming the questions haven't changed).

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RE: Questions about Cygwin's setup...

[Masterson, Dave]

Hmmm.  The cygwin mailer does some strange things with Reply-to.  Your
message has a Reply-to of "Earnie Boyd <cygwin@cygwin.com>".  Is this
intentional?

With respect to my message, it should be obvious that I'm trying to setup a
"minimum" install of Cygwin.  My thought was that, since only I in my group
pay attention to what goes on with Cygwin, I could maintain a central area
where Cygwin is.  I suppose I could send out occassional messages that say
something like "rerun \\my\setup.exe to update your Cygwin", but it would be
much better if it just happened automatically.  Thus the idea of a pre-setup
central share that I (the Cygwin admin) maintain.  Also, if the speed of the
central share, it probably wouldn't be hard to make a batch script to mirror
it to a local drive (which I might write).

With respect to your answers:

* Why not make setup a package (say "cygwinsetup") like all the rest so that
it could potentially update itself?

* The cygwinsetup package could include a batch script that calls a copy of
setup.exe from some well-known location in the local directory tree.  It
could first install setup.exe and then copy it to the well-known location to
ensure there are no update conflicts.

* The cygwinsetup script could also include a separate shell/bat/exe that
could be called by (say) cygwin.bat to check to see if the mount tables in
the registry have been setup and, if not, set them up before starting bash.
(This could probably be hacked out of setup.exe.)

With this, I only have to tell users (once) to setup a shortcut icon that
points to cygwin.bat.  Also, since this area is pre-setup by me, I can
include things that are not installed by setup.exe (like many Elisp
extensions to Emacs or many toys in /usr/local) and users would "just get
it".

-----Original Message-----
From: Earnie Boyd [ mailto:earnie_boyd@yahoo.com ]
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 5:53 PM
To: Masterson, Dave
Cc: 'cygwin@cygwin.com'
Subject: Re: Questions about Cygwin's setup...


"Masterson, Dave" wrote:
> 
> I have a few questions about the setup of Cygwin:
> 
> *       If you use the Setup.exe program to install Cygwin, does that
update
> the Windows-NT registry in any meaningful way?

Yes.

> *       Could I use the Setup program to install Cygwin on a Windows-NT
> share and would that be immediately useable by others (assuming they
update
> their PATH variables)?

No.  The mount tables from the registry wouldn't be on the local client.

> *       If I use Setup to update this share (assuming its quiet), would
> users need to do something (like fix their registry)?

Yes.  The other option is to execute Setup in an empty directory and
choose the install from local disk option.  It wouldn't install anything
but the setup process would create the registry entries.

> *       Does Setup remove old files during update?

Yes.

> *       Can Setup update itself?

No.

> *       What is the latest version of Setup (I have 2.6)?

Just always execute the one from http://cygwin.com/setup.exe and don't
worry about the most current version.

Earnie.

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Re: Questions about Cygwin's setup...

[DJ Delorie]

> > *       Does Setup remove old files during update?
> 
> Yes.

OK, I'm going to qualify this.  It does remove installed files that
are obsoleted by new versions of packages.  It does not remove the
tarballs corresponding to old installations when new tarballs are
downloaded.

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Re: Questions about Cygwin's setup...

[DJ Delorie]

> *	If you use the Setup.exe program to install Cygwin, does that update
> the Windows-NT registry in any meaningful way?

Yes.  It installs the initial mount points.

> *	Could I use the Setup program to install Cygwin on a Windows-NT
> share and would that be immediately useable by others (assuming they update
> their PATH variables)?

They would only need to set up their mounts.  The cygwin.bat file sets
their path, assuming they all see the share on the same drive letter.

> *	If I use Setup to update this share (assuming its quiet), would
> users need to do something (like fix their registry)?

No.

> *	Does Setup remove old files during update?

No.

> *	Can Setup update itself?

No.

> *	What is the latest version of Setup (I have 2.6)?

2.29

Go to http://cygwin.com/ and click on "install cygwin now" to run the
latest setup.

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Re: Questions about Cygwin's setup...

[Earnie Boyd]

"Masterson, Dave" wrote:
> 
> I have a few questions about the setup of Cygwin:
> 
> *       If you use the Setup.exe program to install Cygwin, does that update
> the Windows-NT registry in any meaningful way?

Yes.

> *       Could I use the Setup program to install Cygwin on a Windows-NT
> share and would that be immediately useable by others (assuming they update
> their PATH variables)?

No.  The mount tables from the registry wouldn't be on the local client.

> *       If I use Setup to update this share (assuming its quiet), would
> users need to do something (like fix their registry)?

Yes.  The other option is to execute Setup in an empty directory and
choose the install from local disk option.  It wouldn't install anything
but the setup process would create the registry entries.

> *       Does Setup remove old files during update?

Yes.

> *       Can Setup update itself?

No.

> *       What is the latest version of Setup (I have 2.6)?

Just always execute the one from http://cygwin.com/setup.exe and don't
worry about the most current version.

Earnie.

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Questions about Cygwin's setup...

[Masterson, Dave]

I have a few questions about the setup of Cygwin:

*	If you use the Setup.exe program to install Cygwin, does that update
the Windows-NT registry in any meaningful way?
*	Could I use the Setup program to install Cygwin on a Windows-NT
share and would that be immediately useable by others (assuming they update
their PATH variables)?
*	If I use Setup to update this share (assuming its quiet), would
users need to do something (like fix their registry)?
*	Does Setup remove old files during update?
*	Can Setup update itself?
*	What is the latest version of Setup (I have 2.6)?

David Masterson
*	Rational Software
*	18880 Homestead Rd.
*	Cupertino, CA  95014
*	(408) 863-5150
*	dmasters@rational.com


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