From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.17.10]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BCB1A3858C27 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2021 09:37:27 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.4.1 sourceware.org BCB1A3858C27 Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=towo.net Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=towo.net Received: from [192.168.178.51] ([91.65.221.56]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue108 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1McGxG-1nDt861r7E-00ckn8 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2021 11:37:26 +0200 Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] Phasing out old Windows versions and 32 bit support To: cygwin@cygwin.com References: <20211027092416.5541c44d36ba0d4a306fdf7d@nifty.ne.jp> From: Thomas Wolff Message-ID: <5bd48f61-4ae5-22f1-7374-c374f5be689e@towo.net> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2021 11:37:26 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:CpQAE3755wRTzCd5j9Yyq9xz9VZ8EtbiJ/7yuHNmQpDm3ENEYHB N4EypJKt/42KyybWaby9I8rxllRg0gnxt7I/D/agiIAz4QTmLTP+XoAi19S1BsWYUQCeCMA sflv7QmqLUrIvN/Bws1eVrYBsdh8324P7zi5o1J7fceAF7RiOdwcvIFVmB98PUcfpSvjeat WQc/f0ghjRYSO8/sLe19g== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:wzXZn3F7YM0=:DkmssCF3JqPX9uOO3HBugP vTyaydxcdarZke7u8HkPiYAvGmGXw8K4gZPGIHAkff4r3wWXekEZ+oTQvMI6W5ya1OsBM3zcD HAXhuRv8cOUN8eBLV9si6bwhpXWkoxn9QHDunW9Mvqoh3XNaA+4kz52HzCXPfHSKjLLqEzFW1 nkcg1OAnF3Wijr99xCf23daX0Q1DVQP7C9ikkLg0Lnoo44/mS1qgxrzzysxL0iCopZZTbOPIY naitn2QEc2nIx5zO2Et4H5FGOhLTv9T+0VAvE+sB37nPnzG6xEuATkVvjC1CGh9EUpjew97w2 ahYc3ejodf10/PRkhcoRHC4/6dgOQH5hIevnj8VorTUuDCwHuqsJ4+8vE6YpfKotTczy+mXxA XaHKK7PC9P4n3GpOJ7EIPcaxkqahYV5YgcTe2Ps2iSVkHWqyyymmPDpedPcMAnH5kmjTfgv8y O3dQ6bJCU5cywV3b5Cc++ycVpGA3iqhbamvzdCrCZirMeDYsl//RzNXLACxTre+eVdCo8WK2/ kKPMNRktJO3nmUuwg9RMCGwuL1UTZZPxsbGTHlBqHu8GTHaOjFk3ih/9TCzow04duVeQrhA8a k0DZLGJDsSt0TGZWdMXx+H9AnszkYCuyesIVtnQhn015ACsMKPLbZT8YZQM4ri2/18PtzxT2v l1zp4rgMI1mi0g80WqrdT/ajmVz/eTD6YVxCGTuOBVvywxxRmjw8boIRLDA4ueChjlMc= X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, KAM_DMARC_STATUS, KAM_LAZY_DOMAIN_SECURITY, NICE_REPLY_A, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2, SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_NONE, TXREP autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on server2.sourceware.org X-BeenThere: cygwin@cygwin.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: General Cygwin discussions and problem reports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2021 09:37:30 -0000 Am 27.10.2021 um 10:49 schrieb Corinna Vinschen via Cygwin: > On Oct 27 09:24, Takashi Yano via Cygwin wrote: >> On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 22:55:01 +0200 >> Corinna Vinschen wrote: >>> We're also planning to drop Support for the 32 bit release of Cygwin in >>> 2022, thus Cygwin 3.4.0 won't come in 32 bit anymore, and the package >>> maintainers won't have to update 32 bit packages anymore. If you're >>> still running Cygwin under WOW64, consider to move to 64 bit in the next >>> couple of months. >> I agree with you that 32 bit cygwin under WOW64 is not worth to >> support any more. However, 32 bit version of Windows 10 will be >> still supported at least until Oct. 2025. Personally, I think it >> would not be nice to exclude the supported windows version from >> cygwin support. > Well, it's not much effort to support WOW64 if we support 32 bit anyway. > The problem is that Cygwin is somehow outgrowing 32 bit systems in terms > of the available memory. Also, 32 bit Cygwin is still using a 32 bit > time_t, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2038_problem > > Per the download statistics, as far as those statistics are trustable, > 32 bit systems are less than 5% of the installed base, with the majority > of them being WOW64 installations. Those can move over to 64 bit Cygwin > easily. > > Less than 1% are real 32 bit systems. I think roughly 1% is still a community to consider. Working old machines shouldn't be trashed just because they are missing a few bits :) > Dropping 32 bit support will reduce code complexity in Cygwin and it will > reduce the workload of the package maintainers. Code complexity was also an argument when dropping XP support, but there was quite some discussion at its time. For `egrep "# *if.*(32|64)"` I'm counting roughly 160 matches in winsup, but only in a few files. Is it really necessary? > Those few still running > Cygwin on a real 32 bit system will still have a chance to run Cygwin > by utilizing Peter's time machine. Peter's time machine is a very appreciable effort. It's a bit fiddly though to figure out how to use it, particularly to identify the "latest XP version". Maybe some explicit howto could be published on the cygwin pages? Thomas