RE: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

RE: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Robb, Sam]

> But beyond curiosity, there's not many reasons to install and
> use both, at least concurrently.  Cygwin and SFU both address
> the same needs and Cygwin covers a wider range of tools.  We'll
> see what happens though.

One thing that Cygwin does lack, and SFU has, is an NFS client :-/
I know that alone will probably entice me into taking a look at
SFU.

-Samrobb

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RE: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Larry Hall]

At 04:26 PM 1/14/2004, Robb, Sam you wrote:
>> But beyond curiosity, there's not many reasons to install and
>> use both, at least concurrently.  Cygwin and SFU both address
>> the same needs and Cygwin covers a wider range of tools.  We'll
>> see what happens though.
>
>One thing that Cygwin does lack, and SFU has, is an NFS client :-/
>I know that alone will probably entice me into taking a look at
>SFU.


Right.  That's always intrigued me as well.  If you look more closely
at any or all parts of SFU, with or without Cygwin, I'm sure the list
would be interested in the results of your analysis.



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RFK Partners, Inc.                      (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office
838 Washington Street                   (508) 893-9889 - FAX
Holliston, MA 01746                     


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Re: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Christopher Faylor]

On Wed, Jan 14, 2004 at 04:26:03PM -0500, Robb, Sam wrote:
>> But beyond curiosity, there's not many reasons to install and
>> use both, at least concurrently.  Cygwin and SFU both address
>> the same needs and Cygwin covers a wider range of tools.  We'll
>> see what happens though.
>
>One thing that Cygwin does lack, and SFU has, is an NFS client :-/
>I know that alone will probably entice me into taking a look at
>SFU.

It would be rather interesting to add nfs to cygwin.  We could develop
filesystem "plug-ins" which could be generalized for stuff like NFS,
EXTFS, etc.

Didn't someone say they had a free month?  Perfect project.  :-)

cgf

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RE: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Chris January]

> On Wed, Jan 14, 2004 at 04:26:03PM -0500, Robb, Sam wrote:
> >> But beyond curiosity, there's not many reasons to install and
> >> use both, at least concurrently.  Cygwin and SFU both address
> >> the same needs and Cygwin covers a wider range of tools.  We'll
> >> see what happens though.
> >
> >One thing that Cygwin does lack, and SFU has, is an NFS client :-/
> >I know that alone will probably entice me into taking a look at
> >SFU.
>
> It would be rather interesting to add nfs to cygwin.  We could develop
> filesystem "plug-ins" which could be generalized for stuff like NFS,
> EXTFS, etc.
>
> Didn't someone say they had a free month?  Perfect project.  :-)

Isn't the SFU NFS client an installable file system, i.e. you can use it
anywhere in Windows, not just with the SFU stuff?

Chris


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Re: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Andrew DeFaria]

Chris January wrote:

>> On Wed, Jan 14, 2004 at 04:26:03PM -0500, Robb, Sam wrote:
>>
>>>> But beyond curiosity, there's not many reasons to install and use 
>>>> both, at least concurrently. Cygwin and SFU both address the same 
>>>> needs and Cygwin covers a wider range of tools. We'll
>>>> see what happens though.
>>>
>>> One thing that Cygwin does lack, and SFU has, is an NFS client :-/ I 
>>> know that alone will probably entice me into taking a look at SFU.
>>
>> It would be rather interesting to add nfs to cygwin. We could develop 
>> filesystem "plug-ins" which could be generalized for stuff like NFS, 
>> EXTFS, etc.
>>
>> Didn't someone say they had a free month? Perfect project. :-)
>
> Isn't the SFU NFS client an installable file system, i.e. you can use 
> it anywhere in Windows, not just with the SFU stuff?

Last I checked SFU's NFS was just DiskAccess and the POSIX was merely a 
30-day trial of MKS. Has that changed (aside from possibly the MKS 
portion being a non time bombed trial -> a full copy)?

-- 
The other day I was playing poker with Tarot cards. I got a full house 
and four people died.


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Re: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Shankar Unni]

Andrew DeFaria wrote:

> Last I checked SFU's NFS was just DiskAccess and the POSIX was merely a 
> 30-day trial of MKS. 

30-day trial? It's actually a subset of the MKS toolkit, but is not 
30-day restricted in any way. Previously, if you paid the $99, you got 
most of what you would need anyway. Now it's free and unrestricted.

What SFU 3.x adds is that everything has been ported to the underlying 
Interix API, which is they claim is "not an emulation layer like Cygwin" 
(nice to see them acknowledge Cygwin!), but apparently is a 1st-class NT 
subsystem.

I plan to try it out soon and see how well it interoperates with Cygwin. 
Obviously some things overlap (services, for instance - even with SFU, 
they have two telnet servers, so this isn't something new or unexpected).

What'll be interesting is all those cross-toolkit usages (like starting 
a Cygwin bash with "tty" from the SFU sh and seeing if things misbehave 
:-).  Nothing will be reported as a "Cygwin bug", I promise :-).


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NFS client for Windows NT

[Federico Bianchi]

In fact - a Windows NT IFS (and it has to run under at least three
different releases, which are subtly different one another when it comes
to FSD). This is why I feel making a true NFS client much harder than it
actually needs to be. I had been tinkering with FIFS for some time, but
making it really usable is certainly not a one man month project.

For those who don't know it, FIFS was a _really_ interesting project by
Danilo Almeida, simulating an SMB/CIFS redirector on the local machine; it
lets file system components be written in user land (and it runs itself in
user mode, too, which makes it somewhat slower than, say, ProxyDK but much
easier to deal with). It mostly worked under NT 4.0, but was never
completed and has some ugly quirks when used on more current systems. One
of the samples was a NFS client, BTW...

Best regards to you all

	 		Federico Bianchi

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Chris January wrote:

> > On Wed, Jan 14, 2004 at 04:26:03PM -0500, Robb, Sam wrote:
> > >> But beyond curiosity, there's not many reasons to install and
> > >> use both, at least concurrently.  Cygwin and SFU both address
> > >> the same needs and Cygwin covers a wider range of tools.  We'll
> > >> see what happens though.
> > >
> > >One thing that Cygwin does lack, and SFU has, is an NFS client :-/
> > >I know that alone will probably entice me into taking a look at
> > >SFU.
> >
> > It would be rather interesting to add nfs to cygwin.  We could develop
> > filesystem "plug-ins" which could be generalized for stuff like NFS,
> > EXTFS, etc.
> >
> > Didn't someone say they had a free month?  Perfect project.  :-)
>
> Isn't the SFU NFS client an installable file system, i.e. you can use it
> anywhere in Windows, not just with the SFU stuff?
>
> Chris

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Re: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Corinna Vinschen]

On Jan 15 00:38, Chris January wrote:
> > On Wed, Jan 14, 2004 at 04:26:03PM -0500, Robb, Sam wrote:
> > >> But beyond curiosity, there's not many reasons to install and
> > >> use both, at least concurrently.  Cygwin and SFU both address
> > >> the same needs and Cygwin covers a wider range of tools.  We'll
> > >> see what happens though.
> > >
> > >One thing that Cygwin does lack, and SFU has, is an NFS client :-/
> > >I know that alone will probably entice me into taking a look at
> > >SFU.
> >
> > It would be rather interesting to add nfs to cygwin.  We could develop
> > filesystem "plug-ins" which could be generalized for stuff like NFS,
> > EXTFS, etc.
> >
> > Didn't someone say they had a free month?  Perfect project.  :-)
> 
> Isn't the SFU NFS client an installable file system, i.e. you can use it
> anywhere in Windows, not just with the SFU stuff?

Sort of.  A couple of DLLs, one or more services get started.  Then
you can access the NFS paths from any Windows application.

The problem with that NFS client is this:

Even though it allows mapping between UNIX user names (from the evil
"other" side) and Windows user names, it doesn't map the POSIX permission
bits into NTFS like permissions.  If you look into the file property box,
you'll see no "Security" tab.  The file access from Windows is a bit like
access to files on FAT partitions.  The permissions are statically set in
an administration MMC snap-in.

That's the unfortunate part which, for me, makes the NFS client in SFU
unusable.

Corinna

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Re: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Doug VanLeuven]

Corinna Vinschen wrote:

>On Jan 15 00:38, Chris January wrote:
>  
>
>>>On Wed, Jan 14, 2004 at 04:26:03PM -0500, Robb, Sam wrote:
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>But beyond curiosity, there's not many reasons to install and
>>>>>use both, at least concurrently.  Cygwin and SFU both address
>>>>>the same needs and Cygwin covers a wider range of tools.  We'll
>>>>>see what happens though.
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>One thing that Cygwin does lack, and SFU has, is an NFS client :-/
>>>>I know that alone will probably entice me into taking a look at
>>>>SFU.
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>It would be rather interesting to add nfs to cygwin.  We could develop
>>>filesystem "plug-ins" which could be generalized for stuff like NFS,
>>>EXTFS, etc.
>>>
>>>Didn't someone say they had a free month?  Perfect project.  :-)
>>>      
>>>
>>Isn't the SFU NFS client an installable file system, i.e. you can use it
>>anywhere in Windows, not just with the SFU stuff?
>>    
>>
>
>Sort of.  A couple of DLLs, one or more services get started.  Then
>you can access the NFS paths from any Windows application.
>
>The problem with that NFS client is this:
>
>Even though it allows mapping between UNIX user names (from the evil
>"other" side) and Windows user names, it doesn't map the POSIX permission
>bits into NTFS like permissions.  If you look into the file property box,
>you'll see no "Security" tab.  The file access from Windows is a bit like
>access to files on FAT partitions.  The permissions are statically set in
>an administration MMC snap-in.
>
>That's the unfortunate part which, for me, makes the NFS client in SFU
>unusable.
>
>Corinna
>
>  
>
I'm not a particular fan of MS NFS client (slow), and I don't know what 
version you worked with, but V3.0 client certainly can set 
user/group/other permissions, in other words, there is a security tab.
The mmc snapin functions as the equivilent of umask in UNIX.
Root_squashing is available on the server side as well.

Doug


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Re: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Corinna Vinschen]

On Jan 16 11:24, Doug VanLeuven wrote:
> Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> >Even though it allows mapping between UNIX user names (from the evil
> >"other" side) and Windows user names, it doesn't map the POSIX permission
> >bits into NTFS like permissions.  If you look into the file property box,
> >you'll see no "Security" tab.  The file access from Windows is a bit like
> >access to files on FAT partitions.  The permissions are statically set in
> >an administration MMC snap-in.
> >[...]
> I'm not a particular fan of MS NFS client (slow), and I don't know what 
> version you worked with, but V3.0 client certainly can set 
> user/group/other permissions, in other words, there is a security tab.

This is a special tab which is unfortunately not a mapping to NTFS
permissions in a way which is transparent to applications.  IOW,
you won't be able to use Cygwin's chmod or chown on NFS shares for that
reason.  Tests show that e. g. the system call GetFileSecurity() just
returns with Windows error 2 (No such file) on files on an NFS share.
The GetVolumeInformation() call returns with the below information:

    Max Filenamelength : 255
    Filesystemname     : NFS
    Flags:
      FILE_CASE_SENSITIVE_SEARCH  : FALSE
      FILE_CASE_PRESERVED_NAMES   : TRUE
      FILE_UNICODE_ON_DISK        : FALSE
      FILE_PERSISTENT_ACLS        : FALSE
      FILE_FILE_COMPRESSION       : FALSE
      FILE_VOLUME_QUOTAS          : FALSE
      FILE_SUPPORTS_SPARSE_FILES  : FALSE
      FILE_SUPPORTS_REPARSE_POINTS: FALSE
      FILE_SUPPORTS_REMOTE_STORAGE: FALSE
      FILE_VOLUME_IS_COMPRESSED   : FALSE
      FILE_SUPPORTS_OBJECT_IDS    : FALSE
      FILE_SUPPORTS_ENCRYPTION    : FALSE
      FILE_NAMED_STREAMS          : FALSE

As you can see, accessing NFS shares using the SFU 3.5 NFS client 
doesn't support persistent ACLs, which would represent the transparent
interface I was talking about.  It isn't even mounted as case sensitive
file system!

Probably there is an ABI somewhere but it would require special
programming considerations.


Corinna

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Re: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Brian Dessent]

Christopher Faylor wrote:

> >One thing that Cygwin does lack, and SFU has, is an NFS client :-/
> >I know that alone will probably entice me into taking a look at
> >SFU.
> 
> It would be rather interesting to add nfs to cygwin.  We could develop
> filesystem "plug-ins" which could be generalized for stuff like NFS,
> EXTFS, etc.
> 
> Didn't someone say they had a free month?  Perfect project.  :-)

Ooh, ooh!  Somebody port KDE's Kioslave feature to Cygwin.  Then I'll
finally be able to mount as a drive letter that ISO9660 image on my
remote Appletalk share that's tunneled through ssh through a http proxy
on my IP-over-carrier pigeon link.

Brian

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Re: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Greg Freemyer]

On Wed, 2004-01-14 at 20:35, Brian Dessent wrote:
> Christopher Faylor wrote:
> 
> > >One thing that Cygwin does lack, and SFU has, is an NFS client :-/
> > >I know that alone will probably entice me into taking a look at
> > >SFU.
> > 
> > It would be rather interesting to add nfs to cygwin.  We could develop
> > filesystem "plug-ins" which could be generalized for stuff like NFS,
> > EXTFS, etc.
> > 
> > Didn't someone say they had a free month?  Perfect project.  :-)
> 
> Ooh, ooh!  Somebody port KDE's Kioslave feature to Cygwin.  Then I'll
> finally be able to mount as a drive letter that ISO9660 image on my
> remote Appletalk share that's tunneled through ssh through a http proxy
> on my IP-over-carrier pigeon link.
> 
> Brian
> 
With carrier pigeon 1.0, the beak is so small you have to
dis-assemble/re-assemble the IP packets.

Carrier pigeon 2.0 has a bigger beak and can hold a full packet.

Unfortunately the evolutionary process is goin slow.  Maybe within a
couple of millenium.

Have you thought about using IP-over-turkey instead?  

It is slower and not very sexy, but with the bigger beak, you can get
better bandwidth.

Greg




> 


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RE: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Dave Korn]

[apologies to Greg for hitting the wrong reply button and dumping this in
his personal inbox when it was meant for the list] 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: cygwin-owner@cygwin.com
> [mailto:cygwin-owner@cygwin.com] On Behalf Of Greg Freemyer
 
> On Wed, 2004-01-14 at 20:35, Brian Dessent wrote:

> > Ooh, ooh!  Somebody port KDE's Kioslave feature to Cygwin.  
> Then I'll
> > finally be able to mount as a drive letter that ISO9660 image on my 
> > remote Appletalk share that's tunneled through ssh through a http 
> > proxy on my IP-over-carrier pigeon link.
> > 
> > Brian
> > 
> With carrier pigeon 1.0, the beak is so small you have to 
> dis-assemble/re-assemble the IP packets.

  Unfortunately, PMTU discovery doesn't work over avian carrier.  Sending
out bigger and bigger packets until you find the size that makes the carrier
choke was banned by the humane society....  But it's a good way to make
pate....

 
   cheers,
      DaveK


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RE: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Peter A. Castro]

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Dave Korn wrote:
> > On Wed, 2004-01-14 at 20:35, Brian Dessent wrote:
> > > Ooh, ooh!  Somebody port KDE's Kioslave feature to Cygwin.
> > > Then I'll
> > > finally be able to mount as a drive letter that ISO9660 image on my
> > > remote Appletalk share that's tunneled through ssh through a http
> > > proxy on my IP-over-carrier pigeon link.
> > >
> > > Brian
> > >
> > With carrier pigeon 1.0, the beak is so small you have to
> > dis-assemble/re-assemble the IP packets.
>
>   Unfortunately, PMTU discovery doesn't work over avian carrier.  Sending
> out bigger and bigger packets until you find the size that makes the carrier
> choke was banned by the humane society....  But it's a good way to make
> pate....

Have you considered IP-over-cheetah?  It's lightning speed provides much
better interactive responsiveness, with minimal packet loss (unless it's
real hungry).  Simply tie the packet around it's neck (provided it
doesn't byte your packet assembler), point it towards the gazelle enabled
backbone traffic feeder and off it's goes! :)

>    cheers,
>       DaveK

-- 
Peter A. Castro <doctor@fruitbat.org> or <Peter.Castro@oracle.com>
	"Cats are just autistic Dogs" -- Dr. Tony Attwood

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RE: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Igor Pechtchanski]

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Peter A. Castro wrote:

> On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Dave Korn wrote:
> > > On Wed, 2004-01-14 at 20:35, Brian Dessent wrote:
> > > > Ooh, ooh!  Somebody port KDE's Kioslave feature to Cygwin.
> > > > Then I'll
> > > > finally be able to mount as a drive letter that ISO9660 image on my
> > > > remote Appletalk share that's tunneled through ssh through a http
> > > > proxy on my IP-over-carrier pigeon link.
> > > >
> > > > Brian
> > > >
> > > With carrier pigeon 1.0, the beak is so small you have to
> > > dis-assemble/re-assemble the IP packets.
> >
> >   Unfortunately, PMTU discovery doesn't work over avian carrier.  Sending
> > out bigger and bigger packets until you find the size that makes the carrier
> > choke was banned by the humane society....  But it's a good way to make
> > pate....
>
> Have you considered IP-over-cheetah?  It's lightning speed provides much
> better interactive responsiveness, with minimal packet loss (unless it's
> real hungry).  Simply tie the packet around it's neck (provided it
> doesn't byte your packet assembler), point it towards the gazelle enabled
> backbone traffic feeder and off it's goes! :)
>
> >    cheers,
> >       DaveK

Unfortunately, IP-over-cheetah can only handle short stretches of huge
bandwidth communication, and then the network goes down and the
connections need to be reset...
	Igor
-- 
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      |\      _,,,---,,_		pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu
ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_		igor@watson.ibm.com
     |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'		Igor Pechtchanski, Ph.D.
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Re: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Christopher Faylor]

On Thu, Jan 15, 2004 at 02:58:17PM -0500, Igor Pechtchanski wrote:
>Unfortunately, IP-over-cheetah can only handle short stretches of huge
>bandwidth communication, and then the network goes down and the
>connections need to be reset...

And the power requirements are a little messy...

cgf

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Re: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Peter A. Castro]

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Christopher Faylor wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 15, 2004 at 02:58:17PM -0500, Igor Pechtchanski wrote:
> >Unfortunately, IP-over-cheetah can only handle short stretches of huge
> >bandwidth communication, and then the network goes down and the
> >connections need to be reset...

And that's different from existing IP-over-<your-transport-here>, how,
exactly?  :)

> And the power requirements are a little messy...

Oh, not really.  Just toss 'em a few ACK frames from time to time and
they'll keep running.  Never run out of ACK frames, or more than your
data packets might get munched!
(Ok, this is severely OT, so I'll stop now :)

> cgf

-- 
Peter A. Castro <doctor@fruitbat.org> or <Peter.Castro@oracle.com>
	"Cats are just autistic Dogs" -- Dr. Tony Attwood

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Re: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Laurent Vaucher]

>  Unfortunately, PMTU discovery doesn't work over avian carrier.  Sending
>out bigger and bigger packets until you find the size that makes the carrier
>choke was banned by the humane society....  But it's a good way to make
>pate....
>  
>
  It reminds me of a Calvin & Hobbes strip where Calvin and his father 
stand at one end of a bridge with a sign reading "Max. weight: 15 tons". 
So Calvin asks his father how people knew that the maximum weight 
allowable on the bridge was 15 tons. And his father replies that they 
cross the bridge with trucks each time heavier and when the bridge 
breaks, they record the weight of the last truck that crossed safely and 
rebuild the bridge identically.

  By the way, does SFU support RFC 1097 : Telnet-Subliminal-Message option ?
http://sunsite.cnlab-switch.ch/ftp/doc/standard/rfc/10xx/1097



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RE: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Joaquin]

So, where do you get the license?  I picked up SFU30 from LinuxWorld,
but it was an eval.  Is there a place to get free licenses, downloads,
etc.



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Re: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Gerrit P. Haase]

Joaquin wrote:

> So, where do you get the license?  I picked up SFU30 from LinuxWorld,
> but it was an eval.  Is there a place to get free licenses, downloads,
> etc.

There is the SFU-3.5beta available from the MS SFU site for free.

Gerrit
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Re: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Ronald Landheer-Cieslak]

On Wed, Jan 14, 2004 at 04:36:17PM -0500, Christopher Faylor wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 14, 2004 at 04:26:03PM -0500, Robb, Sam wrote:
> >> But beyond curiosity, there's not many reasons to install and
> >> use both, at least concurrently.  Cygwin and SFU both address
> >> the same needs and Cygwin covers a wider range of tools.  We'll
> >> see what happens though.
> >One thing that Cygwin does lack, and SFU has, is an NFS client :-/
> >I know that alone will probably entice me into taking a look at
> >SFU.
> It would be rather interesting to add nfs to cygwin.  We could develop
> filesystem "plug-ins" which could be generalized for stuff like NFS,
> EXTFS, etc.
> 
> Didn't someone say they had a free month?  Perfect project.  :-)
Actually, I'd already been thinking about it - I think I'll be sending a 
copyright assignment shortly..

rlc

-- 
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		-- Zefrem Cochrane, "Metamorphosis", stardate 3219.8

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Re: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[S. L.]

[...]
> > It would be rather interesting to add nfs to cygwin.  We could develop
> > filesystem "plug-ins" which could be generalized for stuff like NFS,
> > EXTFS, etc.
> > 
> > Didn't someone say they had a free month?  Perfect project.  :-)
> Actually, I'd already been thinking about it - I think I'll be sending a 
> copyright assignment shortly..
> 
> rlc
[...]

YOU'RE THE MAN!

Wishlist
--------
no.1
- Can you start with a /dev/loopX implementation ? :)

( ... so the testing, and many, many other issues ( e.g. PCE -- Portable
Cygwin Environment -- CD or whatever ) won't mess with real harddrive partition
handling )

SLao

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Neu: Preissenkung für MMS und FreeMMS! http://www.gmx.net



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Re: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Ronald Landheer-Cieslak]

On Fri, Jan 16, 2004 at 11:29:53AM +0100, S. L. wrote:
> [...]
> > > It would be rather interesting to add nfs to cygwin.  We could develop
> > > filesystem "plug-ins" which could be generalized for stuff like NFS,
> > > EXTFS, etc.
> > > 
> > > Didn't someone say they had a free month?  Perfect project.  :-)
> > Actually, I'd already been thinking about it - I think I'll be sending a 
> > copyright assignment shortly..
> > 
> > rlc
> [...]
> 
> YOU'RE THE MAN!
Whoa there - easy now! It ain't done yet :)

I've been *thinking* about it - not a single line of code has been typed yet 
and my CVS checkout of Cygwin's repo is way out of date..

But I'm still thinking about it and ideas of how it could be done are using 
up my brain's CPU cycles, so I might start typing something any day now :)

rlc


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Re: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[linda w]

FYI:
    The 3.0 version went up for the cost of the CD a few months ago so I 
ordered
a copy -- was a disk hog, so eventually removed it.  But few things:

    It always has to have the "interix" subsystem proces running to do 
anything.

    In typical MS fashion, it setup and started demons for all services 
-- not exactly
configured for security.  It didn't have ssh but did have rsh/rlogin.

    It ran about 5% slower on a large file i/o bound 'find' command.  Sorta
odd since it was file i/o bound....  Definitely won't give people a good 
taste for
linux/unix as far as speed goes.  Also, they include ksh and not bash....no
vim, just vi....bunch a weirdo's!

    But running on a 'too old" laptop with not quite enough memory as it is
and a bit tight on disk space, I decided to take it off until I could at 
least get
a larger hard disk partition on a faster HD for my win stuff .

    They don't seem to differentiate between unix and windows processes,
so their kill, ps, and /proc systems all function tranparently with the 
existing
windows processes. 

    I went back to try the find the link I ordered it from, but couldn't 
find the
'free' link, so never bothered to post on it here...it's nice that 3.5 
is free, but
for existing win customers, it'll likely be not much more than a 
curiosity due to
the speed slowdown.  Was neat to see crond, initd, etc...be running as
windows system processes....:-)

-linda


-- 
    In the marketplace of "Real goods", capitalism is limited by safety
    regulations, consumer protection laws, and product liability.  In
    the computer industry, what protects the consumer?



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Re: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Benito Mourelo Caldeiro]

> From cygwin-return-86545-benito=udc.es@cygwin.com  Fri Jan 16 11:36:06 2004
> Mailing-List: contact cygwin-help@cygwin.com; run by ezmlm
> To: cygwin@cygwin.com
> Subject: Re: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge
> 
> On Jan 15 00:38, Chris January wrote:
> > > On Wed, Jan 14, 2004 at 04:26:03PM -0500, Robb, Sam wrote:
> > > >> But beyond curiosity, there's not many reasons to install and
> > > >> use both, at least concurrently.  Cygwin and SFU both address
> > > >> the same needs and Cygwin covers a wider range of tools.  We'll
> > > >> see what happens though.
> > > >
> > > >One thing that Cygwin does lack, and SFU has, is an NFS client :-/
> > > >I know that alone will probably entice me into taking a look at
> > > >SFU.
> > >
> > > It would be rather interesting to add nfs to cygwin.  We could develop
> > > filesystem "plug-ins" which could be generalized for stuff like NFS,
> > > EXTFS, etc.
> > >
> > > Didn't someone say they had a free month?  Perfect project.  :-)
> > 
> > Isn't the SFU NFS client an installable file system, i.e. you can use it
> > anywhere in Windows, not just with the SFU stuff?
> 
> Sort of.  A couple of DLLs, one or more services get started.  Then
> you can access the NFS paths from any Windows application.
> 
> The problem with that NFS client is this:
> 
> Even though it allows mapping between UNIX user names (from the evil
> "other" side) and Windows user names, it doesn't map the POSIX permission
> bits into NTFS like permissions.  If you look into the file property box,
> you'll see no "Security" tab.  The file access from Windows is a bit like
> access to files on FAT partitions.  The permissions are statically set in
> an administration MMC snap-in.
> 
> That's the unfortunate part which, for me, makes the NFS client in SFU
> unusable.
> 
> Corinna

In my XP SP1 box with SFU 3.5, the file property box has a "NFS Attribute"
with the POSIX file permissions an it change dynamically.
I dont understand what the problem is.  

Saudos, Benito.


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RE: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Robb, Sam]

> With carrier pigeon 1.0, the beak is so small you have to
> dis-assemble/re-assemble the IP packets.
> 
> Carrier pigeon 2.0 has a bigger beak and can hold a full packet.
> 
> Unfortunately the evolutionary process is goin slow.  Maybe within a
> couple of millenium.
> 
> Have you thought about using IP-over-turkey instead?  
> 
> It is slower and not very sexy, but with the bigger beak, you can get
> better bandwidth.
> 
> Greg

We've been using IP-over-pelican.  No problems with packet
size, excellent bandwidth, and it's eliminated my need for
a weekly trip to the local sushi bar.

-Samrobb

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RE: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Igor Pechtchanski]

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Robb, Sam wrote:

> > With carrier pigeon 1.0, the beak is so small you have to
> > dis-assemble/re-assemble the IP packets.
> >
> > Carrier pigeon 2.0 has a bigger beak and can hold a full packet.
> >
> > Unfortunately the evolutionary process is goin slow.  Maybe within a
> > couple of millenium.
> >
> > Have you thought about using IP-over-turkey instead?
> >
> > It is slower and not very sexy, but with the bigger beak, you can get
> > better bandwidth.
> >
> > Greg
>
> We've been using IP-over-pelican.  No problems with packet
> size, excellent bandwidth, and it's eliminated my need for
> a weekly trip to the local sushi bar.
>
> -Samrobb

Hmm, I'd've thought you'd put the fish to good use -- IP-over-tuna should
eliminate the need for fiber optic cables from the US to Europe...
	Igor
P.S. I sure hope Joshua Daniel Franklin is monitoring this thread.
-- 
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      |\      _,,,---,,_		pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu
ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_		igor@watson.ibm.com
     |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'		Igor Pechtchanski, Ph.D.
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Re: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Joshua Daniel Franklin]

On Thu, Jan 15, 2004 at 12:10:57PM -0500, Igor Pechtchanski wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Robb, Sam wrote:
> 
> > > With carrier pigeon 1.0, the beak is so small you have to
> > > dis-assemble/re-assemble the IP packets.
> > >
> > > Carrier pigeon 2.0 has a bigger beak and can hold a full packet.
> > >
> > > Unfortunately the evolutionary process is goin slow.  Maybe within a
> > > couple of millenium.
> > >
> > > Have you thought about using IP-over-turkey instead?
> > >
> > > It is slower and not very sexy, but with the bigger beak, you can get
> > > better bandwidth.
> > >
> > > Greg
> >
> > We've been using IP-over-pelican.  No problems with packet
> > size, excellent bandwidth, and it's eliminated my need for
> > a weekly trip to the local sushi bar.
> >
> > -Samrobb
> 
> Hmm, I'd've thought you'd put the fish to good use -- IP-over-tuna should
> eliminate the need for fiber optic cables from the US to Europe...
> 	Igor
> P.S. I sure hope Joshua Daniel Franklin is monitoring this thread.

It's already on the list :

<http://iocc.com/~joshua/cygwin.html>


Kidding aside, however, I thought maybe the MS-SFU versions of some GNU
utils might have useful patches, which they have to release to comply
with the GPL. I downloaded the bash source from
<http://www.interopsystems.com/tools/warehouse.htm>
but it appears to be vanilla bash (except it includes pre-configured
Makefiles and a couple header diffs). Of course, Cygwin bash is vanilla
also. gcc might be much more interesting.

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RE: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Chris Telting]

Buchbinder, Barry wrote:

>Does this mean that that MS finds that Cygwin (and U/Win, MKS, et al.) is a
>threat?  Or that they were not making much from SFU but cannot drop it for
>various reasons, so are going for brownie points?
>  
>
The motivation is probably so that they can realease other unix software 
and tools to entise people over to the dark side.  Tools both for SFU 
and Linux.  It gives them and partners a commercial developement 
platform to seriously target.  But mostly it's recognition of all the 
unix code that exists.  All comercial unix platforms are going down the 
drain due to Linux and Bsd so it's not inconcievable that Microsoft is 
extending an olive branch to them in hopes that will enbrace windows and 
port their commercial applications, first to SFU and then then to their 
windows API's.  If microsoft wanted they could go whole hog and create a 
complete formidable unix environment; something to supercede the dos 
environment..  Nothing in their kernel prevents it, though they could 
make it more efficient for such.

Microsoft is interested in the bottom line.  I don't see cygwin 
affecting them much at all.  Mozilla, Aphche, Open Office and all other 
threatening programs compile natively so cygwin has no impact except as 
a development environment.  They don't exactly make much money on their 
development tools though since developers are quite a small market.



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RE: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Buchbinder, Barry (NIH/NIAID)]

Before one gets too excited, one might wait until one sees the licensing
terms.  I seems to remember that MS was all hot and bothered about what they
were calling viral software.  (Misnomer, Outlook is viral software, in as
far as it is designed to help viruses propagate.  GPL might be better termed
a viral license.)  Will the license let one do what one wants to do?

Does this mean that that MS finds that Cygwin (and U/Win, MKS, et al.) is a
threat?  Or that they were not making much from SFU but cannot drop it for
various reasons, so are going for brownie points?

I also liked the part about 
   "The real driver behind this [pricing]
   change is this interoperability issue,"
   Oldroyd says. "We want Windows to be the
   best platform for interoperability."
Since MS has long desired that "Windows be the best platform for"
productivity suites, will Office soon be available for free?

-----Original Message-----
From: Robb, Sam [mailto:sam.robb@timesys.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 2:43 PM
To: cygwin@cygwin.com
Subject: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

Thought this might interest some of the folks who frequent
this list... particularly those who have to support Cygwin
installations, and might now have to deal with a parallel
(conflicting?) install of SFU :-/

-Samrobb

<http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=17300643>

Microsoft Offers Linux-Interoperability Software For Free
Jan. 13, 2004

Microsoft has decided to drop the $99 licensing fee previously
required for its Services For Unix software and plans to make
a new version of the interoperability product available this
week at no cost on its Web site.

...

The three main components of SFU--Unix's Network File System
and Network Identity Service and Microsoft's Interix layer of
Posix APIs--have all been tuned for better performance, with
some commands running 50% faster, Oldroyd says. SFU 3.5 also
features first-time support for P-Threads (for Posix-compliant
multithreaded applications), a broader set of Posix APIs, and
updated utilities and libraries.

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RE: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Larry Hall]

Who knows for sure what the *real* driving force that is behind this 
change.  However, it is timed very closely (concurrently?) with MS's 
extension of 98, 98SE, and Me support through Fall 2006.  The current
buzz on this change was that MS was afraid too many "orphaned" 98 users
(currently 25% of Windows users) might "defect" to Linux rather than 
upgrade if they were left high and dry.  So Linux was perceived as a 
real threat in this situation.  SFU becoming free may have just "come
along for the ride" in the hysteria.  It certainly helps with the story
that "Windows is the best" (so why would you want to leave it) too.  But 
too much discussion about MS's motives here will get us very off-topic.
Suffice it to say it's an option for some other folks now but also easier 
for us to evaluate presumably. 

Larry

At 06:52 PM 1/14/2004, Buchbinder, Barry (NIH/NIAID) you wrote:
>Before one gets too excited, one might wait until one sees the licensing
>terms.  I seems to remember that MS was all hot and bothered about what they
>were calling viral software.  (Misnomer, Outlook is viral software, in as
>far as it is designed to help viruses propagate.  GPL might be better termed
>a viral license.)  Will the license let one do what one wants to do?
>
>Does this mean that that MS finds that Cygwin (and U/Win, MKS, et al.) is a
>threat?  Or that they were not making much from SFU but cannot drop it for
>various reasons, so are going for brownie points?
>
>I also liked the part about 
>   "The real driver behind this [pricing]
>   change is this interoperability issue,"
>   Oldroyd says. "We want Windows to be the
>   best platform for interoperability."
>Since MS has long desired that "Windows be the best platform for"
>productivity suites, will Office soon be available for free?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Robb, Sam [mailto:sam.robb@timesys.com] 
>Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 2:43 PM
>To: cygwin@cygwin.com
>Subject: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge
>
>Thought this might interest some of the folks who frequent
>this list... particularly those who have to support Cygwin
>installations, and might now have to deal with a parallel
>(conflicting?) install of SFU :-/
>
>-Samrobb
>
><http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=17300643>
>
>Microsoft Offers Linux-Interoperability Software For Free
>Jan. 13, 2004
>
>Microsoft has decided to drop the $99 licensing fee previously
>required for its Services For Unix software and plans to make
>a new version of the interoperability product available this
>week at no cost on its Web site.
>
>...
>
>The three main components of SFU--Unix's Network File System
>and Network Identity Service and Microsoft's Interix layer of
>Posix APIs--have all been tuned for better performance, with
>some commands running 50% faster, Oldroyd says. SFU 3.5 also
>features first-time support for P-Threads (for Posix-compliant
>multithreaded applications), a broader set of Posix APIs, and
>updated utilities and libraries.
>
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Re: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Shankar Unni]

Larry Hall wrote:

> The current buzz on this change was that MS was afraid 
 > too many "orphaned" 98 users (currently 25% of Windows users)
 > might "defect" to Linux rather than upgrade [...]

Oooh. I wonder what they were smoking. I seriously doubt even a tiny 
fraction of those users would even *think* about Linux, let alone think 
they could handle it themselves. We're talking about folks who think 
adding a DIMM is something they have to haul the PC back to the 
manufacturer for..

No, I see this as more of a move towards enticing people to try SFU for 
free. Once they're hooked, we'll see "SFU Professional", "SFU Enterprise 
Edition" (and dare I dream? "SFU Data Center Edition").

("The first hit's free, kid!").


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Re: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Larry Hall]

At 04:21 PM 1/15/2004, Shankar Unni you wrote:
>Larry Hall wrote:
>
>>The current buzz on this change was that MS was afraid 
>> too many "orphaned" 98 users (currently 25% of Windows users)
>> might "defect" to Linux rather than upgrade [...]
>
>Oooh. I wonder what they were smoking. I seriously doubt even a tiny fraction of those users would even *think* about Linux, let alone think they could handle it themselves. We're talking about folks who think adding a DIMM is something they have to haul the PC back to the manufacturer for..


True but there are versions of Linux out there that are very easy to 
install and look and feel allot like Windows.  But that's a separate 
subject only potentially related to the topic at hand, mostly by timing.
I don't think it's on-topic for this list.


>No, I see this as more of a move towards enticing people to try SFU for free. Once they're hooked, we'll see "SFU Professional", "SFU Enterprise Edition" (and dare I dream? "SFU Data Center Edition").
>
>("The first hit's free, kid!").


Perhaps.  But if that's their goal they could have introduced those 
versions now.  I'm not saying they won't do what you suggest but the 
move they just made with it would imply to me that they aren't heading
that way.  I also don't see much to get "hooked" on that isn't available 
from another source, free or otherwise.  Regardless, I'm interested in 
the results of your upcoming tests.


--
Larry Hall                              http://www.rfk.com
RFK Partners, Inc.                      (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office
838 Washington Street                   (508) 893-9889 - FAX
Holliston, MA 01746                     


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RE: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Joaquin]

Well, I was amazed that MS would EOL Win 9X/Me users, which I'm guessing
is like 40 million.  I know that in Europe, Latin-America, and Asia,
many people use older machines and do not see the business need to
upgrade to newer hardware.  If they are forced to, then I am pretty sure
Linux becomes more of a reality for them.

Aside from this, I always believe in Open Source.  Even if SFU becomes
like standard, then still perhaps we could tag along and offer freeware
compilers for it, and offer cygwin for orphaned machines.  It's always
good to have free databases, web servers, development tools, etc. for
those that cannot support MS's coffers for such tools, whether or not
they are on Linux or Windows.

- Joaquin

> -----Original Message-----
> From: cygwin-owner@cygwin.com
> [mailto:cygwin-owner@cygwin.com] On Behalf Of Larry Hall
> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 4:15 PM
> To: Buchbinder, Barry (NIH/NIAID); cygwin@cygwin.com
> Subject: RE: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge
>
>
> Who knows for sure what the *real* driving force that is behind this
> change.  However, it is timed very closely (concurrently?) with MS's
> extension of 98, 98SE, and Me support through Fall 2006.  The
> current buzz on this change was that MS was afraid too many
> "orphaned" 98 users (currently 25% of Windows users) might
> "defect" to Linux rather than
> upgrade if they were left high and dry.  So Linux was perceived as a
> real threat in this situation.  SFU becoming free may have
> just "come along for the ride" in the hysteria.  It certainly
> helps with the story that "Windows is the best" (so why would
> you want to leave it) too.  But
> too much discussion about MS's motives here will get us very
> off-topic. Suffice it to say it's an option for some other
> folks now but also easier
> for us to evaluate presumably.
>
> Larry
>
> At 06:52 PM 1/14/2004, Buchbinder, Barry (NIH/NIAID) you wrote:
> >Before one gets too excited, one might wait until one sees the
> >licensing terms.  I seems to remember that MS was all hot
> and bothered
> >about what they were calling viral software.  (Misnomer, Outlook is
> >viral software, in as far as it is designed to help viruses
> propagate.
> >GPL might be better termed a viral license.)  Will the
> license let one
> >do what one wants to do?
> >
> >Does this mean that that MS finds that Cygwin (and U/Win,
> MKS, et al.)
> >is a threat?  Or that they were not making much from SFU but cannot
> >drop it for various reasons, so are going for brownie points?
> >
> >I also liked the part about
> >   "The real driver behind this [pricing]
> >   change is this interoperability issue,"
> >   Oldroyd says. "We want Windows to be the
> >   best platform for interoperability."
> >Since MS has long desired that "Windows be the best platform for"
> >productivity suites, will Office soon be available for free?
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Robb, Sam [mailto:sam.robb@timesys.com]
> >Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 2:43 PM
> >To: cygwin@cygwin.com
> >Subject: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge
> >
> >Thought this might interest some of the folks who frequent
> this list...
> >particularly those who have to support Cygwin installations,
> and might
> >now have to deal with a parallel
> >(conflicting?) install of SFU :-/
> >
> >-Samrobb
> >
> ><http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?artic
leID=17300
>643>
>
>Microsoft Offers Linux-Interoperability Software For Free
>Jan. 13, 2004
>
>Microsoft has decided to drop the $99 licensing fee previously required

>for its Services For Unix software and plans to make a new version of
>the interoperability product available this week at no cost on its Web
>site.
>
>...
>
>The three main components of SFU--Unix's Network File System and
>Network Identity Service and Microsoft's Interix layer of Posix
>APIs--have all been tuned for better performance, with some commands
>running 50% faster, Oldroyd says. SFU 3.5 also features first-time
>support for P-Threads (for Posix-compliant multithreaded applications),

>a broader set of Posix APIs, and updated utilities and libraries.
>
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MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Robb, Sam]

Thought this might interest some of the folks who frequent
this list... particularly those who have to support Cygwin
installations, and might now have to deal with a parallel
(conflicting?) install of SFU :-/

-Samrobb

<http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=17300643>

Microsoft Offers Linux-Interoperability Software For Free
Jan. 13, 2004

Microsoft has decided to drop the $99 licensing fee previously
required for its Services For Unix software and plans to make
a new version of the interoperability product available this
week at no cost on its Web site.

...

The three main components of SFU--Unix's Network File System
and Network Identity Service and Microsoft's Interix layer of
Posix APIs--have all been tuned for better performance, with
some commands running 50% faster, Oldroyd says. SFU 3.5 also
features first-time support for P-Threads (for Posix-compliant
multithreaded applications), a broader set of Posix APIs, and
updated utilities and libraries.

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Re: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Larry Hall]

Actually, this has always been a potential issue, since SFU has been around
for a while.  The biggest conflicts, beyond path clashes which we 
unequivocally state must be resolved by putting Cygwin first in the path, 
are likely to be services.  But, so far, we haven't seen lots of complaints 
here about SFU clashes.  Maybe we'll see more now that it's free to download 
and use.  Or maybe SFU just works well with Cygwin. ;-)  But beyond 
curiosity, there's not many reasons to install and use both, at least 
concurrently.  Cygwin and SFU both address the same needs and Cygwin covers 
a wider range of tools.  We'll see what happens though.

Larry


At 02:43 PM 1/14/2004, Robb, Sam you wrote:
>Thought this might interest some of the folks who frequent
>this list... particularly those who have to support Cygwin
>installations, and might now have to deal with a parallel
>(conflicting?) install of SFU :-/
>
>-Samrobb
>
><http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=17300643>
>
>Microsoft Offers Linux-Interoperability Software For Free
>Jan. 13, 2004
>
>Microsoft has decided to drop the $99 licensing fee previously
>required for its Services For Unix software and plans to make
>a new version of the interoperability product available this
>week at no cost on its Web site.
>
>...
>
>The three main components of SFU--Unix's Network File System
>and Network Identity Service and Microsoft's Interix layer of
>Posix APIs--have all been tuned for better performance, with
>some commands running 50% faster, Oldroyd says. SFU 3.5 also
>features first-time support for P-Threads (for Posix-compliant
>multithreaded applications), a broader set of Posix APIs, and
>updated utilities and libraries.
>
>--
>Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
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--
Larry Hall                              http://www.rfk.com
RFK Partners, Inc.                      (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office
838 Washington Street                   (508) 893-9889 - FAX
Holliston, MA 01746                     


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Re: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Harold L Hunt II]

Well, I don't know about the rest of you, but since SFU comes with a 
great (and free) X Server, I am throwing in the towel.

Harold

Larry Hall wrote:
> Actually, this has always been a potential issue, since SFU has been around
> for a while.  The biggest conflicts, beyond path clashes which we 
> unequivocally state must be resolved by putting Cygwin first in the path, 
> are likely to be services.  But, so far, we haven't seen lots of complaints 
> here about SFU clashes.  Maybe we'll see more now that it's free to download 
> and use.  Or maybe SFU just works well with Cygwin. ;-)  But beyond 
> curiosity, there's not many reasons to install and use both, at least 
> concurrently.  Cygwin and SFU both address the same needs and Cygwin covers 
> a wider range of tools.  We'll see what happens though.
> 
> Larry
> 
> 
> At 02:43 PM 1/14/2004, Robb, Sam you wrote:
> 
>>Thought this might interest some of the folks who frequent
>>this list... particularly those who have to support Cygwin
>>installations, and might now have to deal with a parallel
>>(conflicting?) install of SFU :-/
>>
>>-Samrobb
>>
>><http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=17300643>
>>
>>Microsoft Offers Linux-Interoperability Software For Free
>>Jan. 13, 2004
>>
>>Microsoft has decided to drop the $99 licensing fee previously
>>required for its Services For Unix software and plans to make
>>a new version of the interoperability product available this
>>week at no cost on its Web site.
>>
>>...
>>
>>The three main components of SFU--Unix's Network File System
>>and Network Identity Service and Microsoft's Interix layer of
>>Posix APIs--have all been tuned for better performance, with
>>some commands running 50% faster, Oldroyd says. SFU 3.5 also
>>features first-time support for P-Threads (for Posix-compliant
>>multithreaded applications), a broader set of Posix APIs, and
>>updated utilities and libraries.

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Re: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Jan Nieuwenhuizen]

Harold L. Hunt, II writes:

> Well, I don't know about the rest of you, but since SFU comes with a
> great (and free) X Server, I am throwing in the towel.

Thanks for your great work!
Jan.

-- 
Jan Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@gnu.org> | GNU LilyPond - The music typesetter
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jantien       | http://www.lilypond.org


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Re: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Harold L Hunt II]

Jan Nieuwenhuizen wrote:

> Harold L. Hunt, II writes:
> 
> 
>>Well, I don't know about the rest of you, but since SFU comes with a
>>great (and free) X Server, I am throwing in the towel.
> 
> 
> Thanks for your great work!
> Jan.

Jan,

I don't know that I would call it "great work" since I think I am now in 
the running for the worst received joke of 2004 :)

Harold

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Re: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Jan Nieuwenhuizen]

Harold L. Hunt, II writes:

> I don't know that I would call it "great work" since I think I am now
> in the running for the worst received joke of 2004 :)

Sorry, don't take it too hard; chances are I'll send another silly
reply to someone else before long :)

Jan.

-- 
Jan Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@gnu.org> | GNU LilyPond - The music typesetter
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jantien       | http://www.lilypond.org


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RE: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Joaquin]

> Well, I don't know about the rest of you, but since SFU comes with a
> great (and free) X Server, I am throwing in the towel.
>
> Harold

I am very curious about SFU.  But, alas, I am mistrustful of MS,
especially in regards to security.  I'll probaly play with both.  I also
like supporting open-source initiatives, and I still think cygwin is the
easiest/best way to get quick ports of a lot of open-source out there,
such an Objective-C compiler (gcc) or other tools.

  - Joaquin



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Re: MS offers "Services For Unix" free of charge

[Reini Urban]

Harold L Hunt II schrieb:
> Well, I don't know about the rest of you, but since SFU comes with a 
> great (and free) X Server, I am throwing in the towel.

As I see it it doesn't come with a free X-Server. It comes with some 
xlib's but not with the server.
There's the Starnet and the Hummingbird X-Server for purchase.


http://www.interopsystems.com/tools/FAQ.htm

 > Services for UNIX (SFU) comes with X11R5 and X11R6 utilities and 
libraries. SFU does not come with a X-server to display the graphical 
output of these X11 utilities. You can set your "DISPLAY" environment 
variable to the name of a machine on your network to display the X11 
utilities. If you would like to display X11 locally then you will need 
to purchase an X-server. There are several X-servers available. You 
should look for an X-server that will handle X11R6 (X11R6.6 is preferred 
since this is the best match). You can purchase an X-server from Interop 
Systems at "http://www.interopsystems.com/products.htm".

-- 
Reini Urban
http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/home/rurban/


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