LPR output disappearing

LPR output disappearing

[David Masterson]

Hi,

I created a PDF file with Org-Mode in Emacs and used "gv" and "lpr" to
try to output.  I have a Dell A10 printer attached to my Acer PC.  The
output looked like it was going to work in that the Dell popup that
shows that the printer is about to print something popped up.  However,
it took a long time and eventually did nothing.  I turned around and
printed the same file with Adobe Acrobat Reader and it printed fine, so
I guess the file is proper PDF.  This is my first time attempting to do
a printout with "lpr" in Cygwin, so maybe I haven't configured something
appropriately or given lpr the proper arguments (I think it was given
just the filename).

Anyone know what's wrong?
-- 
David Masterson
Programmer At Large


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Re: LPR output disappearing

[Andrey Repin]

Greetings, David Masterson!

> I created a PDF file with Org-Mode in Emacs and used "gv" and "lpr" to
> try to output.  I have a Dell A10 printer attached to my Acer PC.  The
> output looked like it was going to work in that the Dell popup that
> shows that the printer is about to print something popped up.  However,
> it took a long time and eventually did nothing.  I turned around and
> printed the same file with Adobe Acrobat Reader and it printed fine, so
> I guess the file is proper PDF.  This is my first time attempting to do
> a printout with "lpr" in Cygwin, so maybe I haven't configured something
> appropriately or given lpr the proper arguments (I think it was given
> just the filename).

> Anyone know what's wrong?

If I understand you correctly, you've just tried to send PDF over to the
printer through LPR?
I'm afraid, it just not going to work, at all.
LPR, in essence, is just a file transfer tool. It doesn't do any format
conversion. Unless your printer natively understand PDF format (which I highly
doubt), it would only output random ASCII garbage, or, as you've found out,
nothing at best. (Nothing is actually the best possible output, trust me...)


--
WBR,
Andrey Repin (anrdaemon@yandex.ru) 28.06.2014, <04:24>

Sorry for my terrible english...


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Re: LPR output disappearing

[David Masterson]

Hmmm. Then why is LPR the default for printing from GV ?  GV was able to display the file fine

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 27, 2014, at 5:27 PM, Andrey Repin <anrdaemon@yandex.ru> wrote:
> 
> Greetings, David Masterson!
> 
>> I created a PDF file with Org-Mode in Emacs and used "gv" and "lpr" to
>> try to output.  I have a Dell A10 printer attached to my Acer PC.  The
>> output looked like it was going to work in that the Dell popup that
>> shows that the printer is about to print something popped up.  However,
>> it took a long time and eventually did nothing.  I turned around and
>> printed the same file with Adobe Acrobat Reader and it printed fine, so
>> I guess the file is proper PDF.  This is my first time attempting to do
>> a printout with "lpr" in Cygwin, so maybe I haven't configured something
>> appropriately or given lpr the proper arguments (I think it was given
>> just the filename).
> 
>> Anyone know what's wrong?
> 
> If I understand you correctly, you've just tried to send PDF over to the
> printer through LPR?
> I'm afraid, it just not going to work, at all.
> LPR, in essence, is just a file transfer tool. It doesn't do any format
> conversion. Unless your printer natively understand PDF format (which I highly
> doubt), it would only output random ASCII garbage, or, as you've found out,
> nothing at best. (Nothing is actually the best possible output, trust me...)
> 
> 
> --
> WBR,
> Andrey Repin (anrdaemon@yandex.ru) 28.06.2014, <04:24>
> 
> Sorry for my terrible english...
> 

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Re: LPR output disappearing

[Jeff Hubbs]

On 6/27/14, 9:35 PM, David Masterson wrote:
> Hmmm. Then why is LPR the default for printing from GV ?  GV was able to display the file fine
>
> Sent from my iPhone
GV isn't like your printer.  Your printer may react as intended if you 
were sending it Postscript because it may have the code inside to render 
PS for its print engine, but if you simply direct a PDF file to it, it's 
going to barf.

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Re: LPR output disappearing

[David Masterson]

Jeff Hubbs <jhubbslist@att.net> writes:

> On 6/27/14, 9:35 PM, David Masterson wrote:
>> Hmmm. Then why is LPR the default for printing from GV ?  GV was able
>> to display the file fine

> GV isn't like your printer.  Your printer may react as intended if you
> were sending it Postscript because it may have the code inside to
> render PS for its print engine, but if you simply direct a PDF file to
> it, it's going to barf.

What does Adobe Acrobat Reader under Windows?  As I mentioned, I can
print the file using Acrobat under Windows without a problem.

-- 
David Masterson
Programmer At Large


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Re: LPR output disappearing

[Marco Atzeri]

On 01/07/2014 06:52, David Masterson wrote:
> Jeff Hubbs <jhubbslist@att.net> writes:
>
>> On 6/27/14, 9:35 PM, David Masterson wrote:
>>> Hmmm. Then why is LPR the default for printing from GV ?  GV was able
>>> to display the file fine
>
>> GV isn't like your printer.  Your printer may react as intended if you
>> were sending it Postscript because it may have the code inside to
>> render PS for its print engine, but if you simply direct a PDF file to
>> it, it's going to barf.
>
> What does Adobe Acrobat Reader under Windows?  As I mentioned, I can
> print the file using Acrobat under Windows without a problem.
>

Acrobat -> printer driver -> printer

Without the step in the middle, usually, garbage is expected;
only exception is when sending a Postscript file to a Postscript printer.

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Re: LPR output disappearing

[David Masterson]

Marco Atzeri <marco.atzeri@gmail.com> writes:

> On 01/07/2014 06:52, David Masterson wrote:
>> Jeff Hubbs <jhubbslist@att.net> writes:
>>
>>> On 6/27/14, 9:35 PM, David Masterson wrote:
>>>> Hmmm. Then why is LPR the default for printing from GV ?  GV was able
>>>> to display the file fine
>>
>>> GV isn't like your printer.  Your printer may react as intended if you
>>> were sending it Postscript because it may have the code inside to
>>> render PS for its print engine, but if you simply direct a PDF file to
>>> it, it's going to barf.
>>
>> What does Adobe Acrobat Reader under Windows?  As I mentioned, I can
>> print the file using Acrobat under Windows without a problem.
>>
>
> Acrobat -> printer driver -> printer
>
> Without the step in the middle, usually, garbage is expected;
> only exception is when sending a Postscript file to a Postscript printer.

Rephrasing the question -- where in that chain does the translation of
PDF to something the printer can print occur?  I'm pretty sure that this
printer (Dell A10) is not a Postscript printer, so the PDF is not being
translated into PS.  As I understand it, the job of the printer driver
is to forward the data sent by the application to the printer
(ie. manage the hardware).  Therefore, the translation of PDF to
something that the printer can print either occurs in the application
(ie. Acrobat or GV) or in the printer (unlikely).  What am I missing?

-- 
David Masterson
Programmer At Large


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Re: LPR output disappearing

[Andrey Repin]

Greetings, David Masterson!

>> Acrobat -> printer driver -> printer
>>
>> Without the step in the middle, usually, garbage is expected;
>> only exception is when sending a Postscript file to a Postscript printer.

> Rephrasing the question -- where in that chain does the translation of
> PDF to something the printer can print occur?

Between Acrobat Reader and printer driver and inside printer driver itself.
Acrobat Reader transform PDF into something printer-digestible (WMF f.e.),
printer driver convert it into actual printer instructions.

> I'm pretty sure that this printer (Dell A10) is not a Postscript printer, so
> the PDF is not being translated into PS.

That has no connection. The document COULD be translated into PS before
sending it to printer driver, if the driver support that input format.
As I said, there could be more than one translation occuring.

> As I understand it, the job of the printer driver
> is to forward the data sent by the application to the printer
> (ie. manage the hardware).  Therefore, the translation of PDF to
> something that the printer can print either occurs in the application
> (ie. Acrobat or GV) or in the printer (unlikely).  What am I missing?

See above. Your question has no simple answer.


--
WBR,
Andrey Repin (anrdaemon@yandex.ru) 01.07.2014, <20:05>

Sorry for my terrible english...


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Re: LPR output disappearing

[David Masterson]

Andrey Repin <anrdaemon@yandex.ru> writes:

> Greetings, David Masterson!
>
>>> Acrobat -> printer driver -> printer
>>>
>>> Without the step in the middle, usually, garbage is expected;
>>> only exception is when sending a Postscript file to a Postscript printer.
>
>> Rephrasing the question -- where in that chain does the translation of
>> PDF to something the printer can print occur?
>
> Between Acrobat Reader and printer driver and inside printer driver itself.
> Acrobat Reader transform PDF into something printer-digestible (WMF f.e.),
> printer driver convert it into actual printer instructions.

Hmmm.  And how does this differ from what happens in Cygwin when GV
sends PDF to a printer via LPR?

>> I'm pretty sure that this printer (Dell A10) is not a Postscript printer, so
>> the PDF is not being translated into PS.
>
> That has no connection. The document COULD be translated into PS before
> sending it to printer driver, if the driver support that input format.
> As I said, there could be more than one translation occuring.

Hmmm.  Still something I am not getting:

1. GV under Cygwin can display the PDF fine.  That's what GV is meant to
do -- be a viewer for PDF/PS.
2. GV has a print capability.  By default, it (seems to) uses LPR for
the printout mechanism.

Therefore, if #2 ever works, then there must be an assumption about how
it works that works for most (all?) printers.  What is that assumption?

>> As I understand it, the job of the printer driver
>> is to forward the data sent by the application to the printer
>> (ie. manage the hardware).  Therefore, the translation of PDF to
>> something that the printer can print either occurs in the application
>> (ie. Acrobat or GV) or in the printer (unlikely).  What am I missing?
>
> See above. Your question has no simple answer.

Undoubtedly.  Under Adobe, the print capability works whereas, under GV,
it doesn't seem to work.  I still do not have a means of determining
why.

> WBR,
> Andrey Repin (anrdaemon@yandex.ru) 01.07.2014, <20:05>

-- 
David Masterson
Programmer At Large


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Re: LPR output disappearing

[Ken Brown]

On 7/1/2014 3:45 PM, David Masterson wrote:
> Hmmm.  Still something I am not getting:
>
> 1. GV under Cygwin can display the PDF fine.  That's what GV is meant to
> do -- be a viewer for PDF/PS.
> 2. GV has a print capability.  By default, it (seems to) uses LPR for
> the printout mechanism.

gv uses lpr for printing because of the following line in 
/usr/share/gv/gv_system.ad:

   GV.printCommand:	lpr

This presumably works for pdf files on Linux and other unix-like 
systems; but it doesn't work on Cygwin because Cygwin's /usr/bin/lpr 
simply sends raw data to the printer.  If you want to be able to print 
pdf files from gv on Cygwin, I think you'll have to replace lpr by a 
program that knows how to print pdf files.  I suspect that you can do 
this by using gsprint.exe from the Windows GSview distribution.  I've 
never needed to figure out how to do this, but maybe some variant of the 
following works.  (I use it for printing postscript.)

$ cat ~/bin/lpr
#! /bin/bash
# Print stdin on default printer.
GSPRINT=$HOMEDRIVE/Program\ Files\ \(x86\)/Ghostgum/gsview/gsprint.exe
LOGFILE=/tmp/lpr.log
"$GSPRINT" -_ >$LOGFILE 2>&1

And here's a version that prompts you to choose the printer:

$ cat ~/bin/lprq
#! /bin/bash
# Print stdin, querying for printer.
GSPRINT=$HOMEDRIVE/Program\ Files\ \(x86\)/Ghostgum/gsview/gsprint.exe
LOGFILE=/tmp/lpr.log
"$GSPRINT" -query -_ >$LOGFILE 2>&1

Ken

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Re: LPR output disappearing

[David Masterson]

I understand what you're saying, but I believe that GV should take care of the formatting. Otherwise, why is LPR the default print command for GV if it was expecting further processing to be done?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 27, 2014, at 5:27 PM, Andrey Repin <anrdaemon@yandex.ru> wrote:
> 
> Greetings, David Masterson!
> 
>> I created a PDF file with Org-Mode in Emacs and used "gv" and "lpr" to
>> try to output.  I have a Dell A10 printer attached to my Acer PC.  The
>> output looked like it was going to work in that the Dell popup that
>> shows that the printer is about to print something popped up.  However,
>> it took a long time and eventually did nothing.  I turned around and
>> printed the same file with Adobe Acrobat Reader and it printed fine, so
>> I guess the file is proper PDF.  This is my first time attempting to do
>> a printout with "lpr" in Cygwin, so maybe I haven't configured something
>> appropriately or given lpr the proper arguments (I think it was given
>> just the filename).
> 
>> Anyone know what's wrong?
> 
> If I understand you correctly, you've just tried to send PDF over to the
> printer through LPR?
> I'm afraid, it just not going to work, at all.
> LPR, in essence, is just a file transfer tool. It doesn't do any format
> conversion. Unless your printer natively understand PDF format (which I highly
> doubt), it would only output random ASCII garbage, or, as you've found out,
> nothing at best. (Nothing is actually the best possible output, trust me...)
> 
> 
> --
> WBR,
> Andrey Repin (anrdaemon@yandex.ru) 28.06.2014, <04:24>
> 
> Sorry for my terrible english...
> 

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Re: LPR output disappearing

[David Masterson]

Andrey Repin <anrdaemon@yandex.ru> writes:

> Greetings, David Masterson!
>
>> I created a PDF file with Org-Mode in Emacs and used "gv" and "lpr" to
>> try to output.  I have a Dell A10 printer attached to my Acer PC.  The
>> output looked like it was going to work in that the Dell popup that
>> shows that the printer is about to print something popped up.  However,
>> it took a long time and eventually did nothing.  I turned around and
>> printed the same file with Adobe Acrobat Reader and it printed fine, so
>> I guess the file is proper PDF.  This is my first time attempting to do
>> a printout with "lpr" in Cygwin, so maybe I haven't configured something
>> appropriately or given lpr the proper arguments (I think it was given
>> just the filename).
>
>> Anyone know what's wrong?
>
> If I understand you correctly, you've just tried to send PDF over to
> the printer through LPR?  I'm afraid, it just not going to work, at
> all.  LPR, in essence, is just a file transfer tool. It doesn't do any
> format conversion. Unless your printer natively understand PDF format
> (which I highly doubt), it would only output random ASCII garbage, or,
> as you've found out, nothing at best. (Nothing is actually the best
> possible output, trust me...)

I understand what you are saying here.  I had forgotten this issue and
have forgotten some of the answer to this issue.  Let me summarize
again:

1. I have a PDF file.
2. The PDF file prints fine via AcroRead under Windows 8.1.
3. The PDF file displays properly via GV under Cygwin.
4. The PDF file doesn't print via GV to LPR from Cygwin.
4.1. The printout causes the usual print popup.
4.2. The popup takes a long time.
4.3. Ultimately, no printout comes out.
5. You suggest that the PDF file is going to the printer by LPR, but is
being ignored because it needs to be processed into a print compatible
format.

My questions are:

1. GV is displaying the file correctly, so hasn't it already been
processed before sending it to LPR?
2. LPR is the default print mechanism for GV, so wasn't this issue
previously handled?
3. If not, how do people send PDF/PS printouts from Cygwin to the
underlying, locally attached Windows printer?
4. Could this be a simple case of improper line endings (NL vs CRLF)
and, if so, shouldn't LPR handle that conversion?

The answer to #3 is what I'm most interested in.

> --
> WBR,
> Andrey Repin (anrdaemon@yandex.ru) 28.06.2014, <04:24>
>
> Sorry for my terrible english...

Forgive my English and repeated answers -- problems of trying to use the
iPhone for email when your fingers don't always do what you want... :-(

-- 
David Masterson
Programmer At Large


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Re: LPR output disappearing

[Andrey Repin]

Greetings, David Masterson!

>>> I created a PDF file with Org-Mode in Emacs and used "gv" and "lpr" to
>>> try to output.  I have a Dell A10 printer attached to my Acer PC.  The
>>> output looked like it was going to work in that the Dell popup that
>>> shows that the printer is about to print something popped up.  However,
>>> it took a long time and eventually did nothing.  I turned around and
>>> printed the same file with Adobe Acrobat Reader and it printed fine, so
>>> I guess the file is proper PDF.  This is my first time attempting to do
>>> a printout with "lpr" in Cygwin, so maybe I haven't configured something
>>> appropriately or given lpr the proper arguments (I think it was given
>>> just the filename).
>>
>>> Anyone know what's wrong?
>>
>> If I understand you correctly, you've just tried to send PDF over to
>> the printer through LPR?  I'm afraid, it just not going to work, at
>> all.  LPR, in essence, is just a file transfer tool. It doesn't do any
>> format conversion. Unless your printer natively understand PDF format
>> (which I highly doubt), it would only output random ASCII garbage, or,
>> as you've found out, nothing at best. (Nothing is actually the best
>> possible output, trust me...)

> I understand what you are saying here.  I had forgotten this issue and
> have forgotten some of the answer to this issue.  Let me summarize
> again:

> 1. I have a PDF file.
> 2. The PDF file prints fine via AcroRead under Windows 8.1.
> 3. The PDF file displays properly via GV under Cygwin.
> 4. The PDF file doesn't print via GV to LPR from Cygwin.
> 4.1. The printout causes the usual print popup.
> 4.2. The popup takes a long time.
> 4.3. Ultimately, no printout comes out.
> 5. You suggest that the PDF file is going to the printer by LPR, but is
> being ignored because it needs to be processed into a print compatible
> format.

Ahha, that makes more sense. Sorry, I didn't understand your original post.

> My questions are:

> 1. GV is displaying the file correctly, so hasn't it already been
> processed before sending it to LPR?

That's two different things. But I suppose it should convert to something
printer(-driver)-digestible (i.e. PostScript).
Out of pure curiosity, have you tried to install "Print services for unix"?
Might not be available in your Windows version, though. Comes with Pro and
up. Also have a catch of not accepting localhost connections, even though it
listening on 0.0.0.0.

> 2. LPR is the default print mechanism for GV, so wasn't this issue
> previously handled?
> 3. If not, how do people send PDF/PS printouts from Cygwin to the
> underlying, locally attached Windows printer?
> 4. Could this be a simple case of improper line endings (NL vs CRLF)
> and, if so, shouldn't LPR handle that conversion?

I don't know, sorry, have not printed anything from Cygwin.

> Forgive my English and repeated answers -- problems of trying to use the
> iPhone for email when your fingers don't always do what you want... :-(

Well, at least, now we know that iPhone email client properly insert threading
headers :D


--
WBR,
Andrey Repin (anrdaemon@yandex.ru) 28.06.2014, <13:02>

Sorry for my terrible english...


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Re: LPR output disappearing

[Adam Dinwoodie]

On Sat, Jun 28, 2014 at 01:23:35PM +0400, Andrey Repin wrote:
> Well, at least, now we know that iPhone email client properly insert threading
> headers :D

Except that David's email replies included the sender's email address in
the reply, which is a pretty big no-no given the emails are archived
online.

On the assumption that it isn't possible to configure the iPhone email
client to just not do that per [0], please remember to remove those
email addresses before sending.

[0]: https://cygwin.com/acronyms/#PCYMTNQREAIYR

(In this case I don't think it matters, given Andrey already includes
his raw email address in his email signatures, and so presumably doesn't
mind that they'll get picked up by crawlers who pick up on such things.)

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