From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from sa-prd-fep-049.btinternet.com (mailomta19-sa.btinternet.com [213.120.69.25]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 858573851C0D for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2020 21:44:00 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 sourceware.org 858573851C0D Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=dronecode.org.uk Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=jon.turney@dronecode.org.uk Received: from sa-prd-rgout-002.btmx-prd.synchronoss.net ([10.2.38.5]) by sa-prd-fep-049.btinternet.com with ESMTP id <20200625214359.DNXX4195.sa-prd-fep-049.btinternet.com@sa-prd-rgout-002.btmx-prd.synchronoss.net>; Thu, 25 Jun 2020 22:43:59 +0100 Authentication-Results: btinternet.com; auth=pass (PLAIN) smtp.auth=jonturney@btinternet.com X-Originating-IP: [31.51.205.121] X-OWM-Source-IP: 31.51.205.121 (GB) X-OWM-Env-Sender: jonturney@btinternet.com X-VadeSecure-score: verdict=clean score=0/300, class=clean X-RazorGate-Vade: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrudekledgudeigecutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemuceutffkvffkuffjvffgnffgvefqofdpqfgfvfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedtudenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmnecujfgurhepuffvfhfhkffffgggjggtgfesthejredttdefjeenucfhrhhomheplfhonhcuvfhurhhnvgihuceojhhonhdrthhurhhnvgihsegurhhonhgvtghouggvrdhorhhgrdhukheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepteelffegteeiudeuteehffevledvffeffeekgffhhfehvdfhgffhteehteelteeknecuffhomhgrihhnpegthihgfihinhdrtghomhenucfkphepfedurdehuddrvddthedruddvudenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhephhgvlhhopegludelvddrudeikedruddruddujegnpdhinhgvthepfedurdehuddrvddthedruddvuddpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpeeojhhonhdrthhurhhnvgihsegurhhonhgvtghouggvrdhorhhgrdhukhequceuqfffjgepkeeukffvoffkoffgpdhrtghpthhtohepoegthihgfihinhestgihghifihhnrdgtohhmqedprhgtphhtthhopeeohhhtsehinhhfrdgvugdrrggtrdhukheq X-RazorGate-Vade-Verdict: clean 0 X-RazorGate-Vade-Classification: clean Received: from [192.168.1.117] (31.51.205.121) by sa-prd-rgout-002.btmx-prd.synchronoss.net (5.8.340) (authenticated as jonturney@btinternet.com) id 5ED9AA6E03C07BA4; Thu, 25 Jun 2020 22:43:59 +0100 Subject: Re: Fonts: Cygwin/X, ssh -Y, TigerVNC -- who's in charge? To: The Cygwin Mailing List References: From: Jon Turney Message-ID: <9e8c061f-0da2-2c42-a5f6-9a899b3c3e4a@dronecode.org.uk> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2020 22:43:58 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, FORGED_SPF_HELO, KAM_DMARC_STATUS, KAM_LAZY_DOMAIN_SECURITY, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL, SPF_HELO_PASS, SPF_NONE, TXREP autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on server2.sourceware.org X-BeenThere: cygwin@cygwin.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: General Cygwin discussions and problem reports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2020 21:44:02 -0000 On 18/06/2020 17:53, Henry S. Thompson via Cygwin wrote: > [Warning, gnarly X-windows issues below, read at your own risk] > > I run XEmacs on several Linux servers, and sometimes (always for the > time being) access them via (Cygwin) ssh -Y and/or (Windows)TigerVNC. I'm not sure if you're using 'XEmacs' here to refer to 'GNU Emacs as an X11 client' or 'XEmacs (the fork derived from Lucid Emacs)' > XEmacs and fonts are problematic in their own right, but I'm struggling > to understand the X-windows-as-such issues of this configuration, to try > to isolate my problem, which is that I'm not seeing things displayed in > the fonts I want. > > In particular, I'm trying to understand as between the X servers running > on my remote servers (there has to be one, however simple, whichever way > I connect, because that's where my XEmacs instances are running, right?) > and the Cygwin/X server on my machine at home. Sort of. When using ssh forwarding, the sshd provides a 'proxy X server', which forwards the X protocol across the ssh tunnel to the ssh client (where the real X server is located). (Typically these proxy X servers are listening on ports corresponding to display numbers starting at :10 (see X11DisplayOffset in 'man sshd_config'. If you inspect the DISPLAY env var inside a 'ssh -Y' session, you'll typically see it is something like 'localhost:10.0') > Configuration 1) > > I _think_ I understand that if I launch XEmacs inside an Xvnc instance > on a server, viewed using a vncviewer instance on my home machine, the > fonts available to it are determined by what fonts are available within > the remote Xvnc instance, in whatever form. > > Am I also right in thinking that it does _not_ matter what fonts > TigerVNC-for-Windows finds on my Cygwin box at home? > > Configuration 2) > > If OTOH I launch Cygwin/XWin, and ssh -Y from a local xterm to a remote > server, where I launch XEmacs, I really don't know what happens. Does > the sshd X server include a font server, or search for font.dirs, or??? > Or does _all_ font-related activity depend on the Cygwin/X server? Sort of. The core (legacy) fonts depend on the X server. All modern applications will be rendering fonts inside the X client, so it's the fonts available where that runs which are significant. See the end of [1] for the last lot of more words I wrote about that. [1] https://cygwin.com/pipermail/cygwin-xfree/2014-July/036712.html > Configuration 3) > > Unfortunately, the configuration I like best is a mixture. I launch > XEmacs inside an Xvnc instance on a server, viewed using a vncviewer > instance on my home machine, and fire up gnuserv inside it. I close the > viewer, and ssh -Y back to the server from home, then run gnuclient from > the resulting shell, which brings up a separate window on the original > XEmacs instance. I have no idea whose fonts matter in this case, can > anyone explain? I think that gnuclient will be starting a 'frame' on the display indicated by the DISPLAY env var. If the client is using core fonts, then they are from the X server. > A related question: when running setup and looking at font packages, how > can I tell whether they contain new-style (fc-list will will list them, > they have names such as "DejaVu Sans Mono", or old-style (xlsfonts will > list them, they have names such as "-b&h-lucidatypewriter-medium-r...")? I'm not sure if we have a convention which lets you tell this by name. I think the majority, if not all, of the core fonts have names starting 'xorg-x11-fonts-'.