* Cygwin installer could be much more better @ 2014-01-29 4:26 Ilja Umov 2014-01-29 4:47 ` Josh Hunsaker ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Ilja Umov @ 2014-01-29 4:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin Hi, there is a certainly a good historical reason why cygwin installer has so many options. But now one-click installers are so common (Google Chrome is the best example), it may look rather scary, especially for beginners. I did browse a bit though cygwin source code and well, I'm not so great at C++, that I could help in any meaningful way. Though I did make a script that downloads and extract list of cygwin packages (Python>=3.3, because of `.xz` files): https://github.com/iljau/cyg_fetcher/blob/master/fetch_package_list.py Didn't quite get to installation part, yet. Based on my cygwin usage (installing and updating it on multiple machines) and during process of writing above script I discovered following: 1) Usually I want to "Install from Internet" 2) Usually "C:\cygwin" is where I want to install it for "All Users". 3) "Local Package Directory" could be just environment variable %TMP% or %TEMP%. (Still don't understand difference) 4) Usually "Direct connection" is good. 5) The most reliable mirror is (and the only one that supports https): https://mirrors.kernel.org/sourceware/cygwin/ 6) Usually I dont want to "Create Icons", especially after update. So there are multiple possibilities to provide reasonable defaults and spare users from confusion. That's probably why MSYS2 is being developed: https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Building/Preparation/Windows/MSYS2 Thank you for your attention. -- Ilja Umov https://iljau.me -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Cygwin installer could be much more better 2014-01-29 4:26 Cygwin installer could be much more better Ilja Umov @ 2014-01-29 4:47 ` Josh Hunsaker 2014-01-29 5:32 ` Christopher Faylor 2014-01-29 6:57 ` Steven Penny 2014-01-29 16:35 ` Andrey Repin 2 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Josh Hunsaker @ 2014-01-29 4:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin Ilja Umov wrote: > I did browse a bit though cygwin source code and well, I'm not so > great at C++, that I could help in any meaningful way. > > <snip> > > So there are multiple possibilities to provide reasonable defaults > and spare users from confusion. > > That's probably why MSYS2 is being developed I'm going to pop some popcorn and wait for the response from cgf of this one... ;-) -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Cygwin installer could be much more better 2014-01-29 4:47 ` Josh Hunsaker @ 2014-01-29 5:32 ` Christopher Faylor 0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Christopher Faylor @ 2014-01-29 5:32 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 09:47:39PM -0700, Josh Hunsaker wrote: >Ilja Umov wrote: > >> I did browse a bit though cygwin source code and well, I'm not so >> great at C++, that I could help in any meaningful way. >> >> <snip> >> >> So there are multiple possibilities to provide reasonable defaults >> and spare users from confusion. >> >> That's probably why MSYS2 is being developed > >I'm going to pop some popcorn and wait for the response from cgf of >this one... ;-) Heh. Ur, something about Thursday, cats? Pragmatically speaking... Open source! BLODA? Sorry. I've got nuthin'. cgf -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Cygwin installer could be much more better 2014-01-29 4:26 Cygwin installer could be much more better Ilja Umov 2014-01-29 4:47 ` Josh Hunsaker @ 2014-01-29 6:57 ` Steven Penny 2014-01-29 7:06 ` Steven Penny 2014-01-29 7:28 ` Marco Atzeri 2014-01-29 16:35 ` Andrey Repin 2 siblings, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Steven Penny @ 2014-01-29 6:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 10:25 PM, Ilja Umov wrote > That's probably why MSYS2 is being developed: > https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Building/Preparation/Windows/MSYS2 Well I have to say I was skeptical until I saw this $ bash --version GNU bash, version 4.2.45(1)-release (x86_64-pc-msys) However this distribution is huge $ du -hs 'C:\cross64' 763M C:\cross64 Do they have some kind of installer/package manager yet? -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Cygwin installer could be much more better 2014-01-29 6:57 ` Steven Penny @ 2014-01-29 7:06 ` Steven Penny 2014-01-29 7:28 ` Marco Atzeri 1 sibling, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Steven Penny @ 2014-01-29 7:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 12:57 AM, Steven Penny wrote > However this distribution is huge > > $ du -hs 'C:\cross64' > 763M C:\cross64 Well I found this for a start http://sf.net/projects/msys2/files/Base/x86_64 $ du -hs 'C:\msys64' 168M C:\msys64 -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Cygwin installer could be much more better 2014-01-29 6:57 ` Steven Penny 2014-01-29 7:06 ` Steven Penny @ 2014-01-29 7:28 ` Marco Atzeri 2014-01-29 14:59 ` Christopher Faylor 1 sibling, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Marco Atzeri @ 2014-01-29 7:28 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On 29/01/2014 07:57, Steven Penny wrote: > On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 10:25 PM, Ilja Umov wrote >> That's probably why MSYS2 is being developed: >> https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Building/Preparation/Windows/MSYS2 > > Well I have to say I was skeptical until I saw this > > $ bash --version > GNU bash, version 4.2.45(1)-release (x86_64-pc-msys) > > However this distribution is huge > > $ du -hs 'C:\cross64' > 763M C:\cross64 > > Do they have some kind of installer/package manager yet? > "This page documents the instructions for setting up a Windows build using âmsys2, which is a fairly complete build of MinGW + the msys tools. [cut]. It's also smaller and has a convenient package manager, pacman." I like the "pacnam" name. However, coming back to the original request: Cygwin includes, like any Linux/BSD distrubution, a large amount of packages of all different categories: - compilers (C, fortran, C++..) - script (Bash, Perl, Python,...) - MAth (Octave, glpk, R, GMP, ...) - Simulation (ngspice, gnucap...) - Database (sqlite, postgres, DB,..) - X Window system ... No sane one need all of them (~ 11 GB as Warren recently tested http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2014-01/msg00273.html ) While Crome as single application has a single click setup, if you want to add any of the several ADD-ONs you need to add separatly. -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Cygwin installer could be much more better 2014-01-29 7:28 ` Marco Atzeri @ 2014-01-29 14:59 ` Christopher Faylor 2014-01-29 20:40 ` iljau 0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Christopher Faylor @ 2014-01-29 14:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 08:28:33AM +0100, Marco Atzeri wrote: >On 29/01/2014 07:57, Steven Penny wrote: >> On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 10:25 PM, Ilja Umov wrote >>> That's probably why MSYS2 is being developed: >>> https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Building/Preparation/Windows/MSYS2 >> >> Well I have to say I was skeptical until I saw this >> >> $ bash --version >> GNU bash, version 4.2.45(1)-release (x86_64-pc-msys) >> >> However this distribution is huge >> >> $ du -hs 'C:\cross64' >> 763M C:\cross64 >> >> Do they have some kind of installer/package manager yet? >> > > >"This page documents the instructions for setting up a Windows build >using ???msys2, which is a fairly complete build of MinGW + the msys >tools. [cut]. >It's also smaller and has a convenient package manager, pacman." It should be pretty obvious that discussion about MSYS is off-topic. Please stop. -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Cygwin installer could be much more better 2014-01-29 14:59 ` Christopher Faylor @ 2014-01-29 20:40 ` iljau 2014-01-29 21:22 ` Larry Hall (Cygwin) 0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: iljau @ 2014-01-29 20:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin I'll try to explain situation from my perspective, Hoping it will be of of interest at least to somebody. If I need some unix-y things, I usually end up using: http://www.vagrantup.com/ But using a virtual machine may be a bit too much overhead sometimes. (As I couldn't find any good intro/tutorial pages for following projects, direct links to installers are provided, sorry. But if I understand correctly, then they are somehow related to: http://mingw-w64.sourceforge.net/ For installing gcc/g++ there's a nice installer: http://heanet.dl.sourceforge.net/project/mingwbuilds/mingw-builds-install/mingw-builds-install.exe But sometimes you'll need some libraries as well, then there's : http://skylink.dl.sourceforge.net/project/mingw/Installer/mingw-get-setup.exe But sometimes those aren't unix-y enough, then you'd end up using cygwin. And it just doesn't feel so good. Blame projects mentioned above for setting expectations too high. ;-D On 2014-01-29 09:28 Christopher Faylor wrote: > It should be pretty obvious that discussion about MSYS is off-topic. > Please stop. I'll do it. And again, I'd like to thank all of you for your attention. -- Ilja Umov https://iljau.me/ -- View this message in context: http://cygwin.1069669.n5.nabble.com/Cygwin-installer-could-be-much-more-better-tp105775p105830.html Sent from the Cygwin list mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Cygwin installer could be much more better 2014-01-29 20:40 ` iljau @ 2014-01-29 21:22 ` Larry Hall (Cygwin) 2014-01-29 21:48 ` Steven Penny 0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Larry Hall (Cygwin) @ 2014-01-29 21:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On 1/29/2014 3:40 PM, iljau wrote: <snip> > On 2014-01-29 09:28 Christopher Faylor wrote: >> It should be pretty obvious that discussion about MSYS is off-topic. >> Please stop. > > I'll do it. Ah, right. Of course Chris meant "Please stop after Ilja gets his last comment in." Now that that's happened, MSYS discussion can stop. ;-) -- Larry _____________________________________________________________________ A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email? -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Cygwin installer could be much more better 2014-01-29 21:22 ` Larry Hall (Cygwin) @ 2014-01-29 21:48 ` Steven Penny 2014-01-29 23:45 ` Larry Hall (Cygwin) 2014-01-30 1:13 ` Christopher Faylor 0 siblings, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Steven Penny @ 2014-01-29 21:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 3:21 PM, Larry Hall (Cygwin) wrote > Ah, right. Of course Chris meant "Please stop after Ilja gets his last > comment in." Now that that's happened, MSYS discussion can stop. ;-) You want some on-topic? Ok here goes Bash 4.2 has been out almost 3 years now, any roadmap for an upgrade? I wouldnt want Cygwin to become the next you-know-who. -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Cygwin installer could be much more better 2014-01-29 21:48 ` Steven Penny @ 2014-01-29 23:45 ` Larry Hall (Cygwin) 2014-01-30 1:13 ` Christopher Faylor 1 sibling, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Larry Hall (Cygwin) @ 2014-01-29 23:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On 1/29/2014 4:48 PM, Steven Penny wrote: > On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 3:21 PM, Larry Hall (Cygwin) wrote >> Ah, right. Of course Chris meant "Please stop after Ilja gets his last >> comment in." Now that that's happened, MSYS discussion can stop. ;-) > > You want some on-topic? Ok here goes > > Bash 4.2 has been out almost 3 years now, any roadmap for an upgrade? It's the Cygwin bash maintainer that will have to answer that. Eric, any thoughts? -- Larry _____________________________________________________________________ A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email? -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Cygwin installer could be much more better 2014-01-29 21:48 ` Steven Penny 2014-01-29 23:45 ` Larry Hall (Cygwin) @ 2014-01-30 1:13 ` Christopher Faylor 1 sibling, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Christopher Faylor @ 2014-01-30 1:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 03:48:17PM -0600, Steven Penny wrote: >On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 3:21 PM, Larry Hall (Cygwin) wrote >> Ah, right. Of course Chris meant "Please stop after Ilja gets his last >> comment in." Now that that's happened, MSYS discussion can stop. ;-) > >You want some on-topic? Ok here goes > >Bash 4.2 has been out almost 3 years now, any roadmap for an upgrade? I wouldnt >want Cygwin to become the next you-know-who. This isn't off-topic but it's one of those terrible things that we do here which can result in people running screaming in the streets gnawing at their own limbs. Please just start a new thread if you have something new to say. -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Cygwin installer could be much more better 2014-01-29 4:26 Cygwin installer could be much more better Ilja Umov 2014-01-29 4:47 ` Josh Hunsaker 2014-01-29 6:57 ` Steven Penny @ 2014-01-29 16:35 ` Andrey Repin 2014-01-29 17:34 ` Ilja Umov 2 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Andrey Repin @ 2014-01-29 16:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ilja Umov, cygwin Greetings, Ilja Umov! > there is a certainly a good historical reason why cygwin installer > has so many options. But now one-click installers are so common > (Google Chrome is the best example), it may look rather scary, > especially for beginners. Google chrome is an ONE package. Cygwin setup installs about a ton of them. There's no confusion, there's options. -- WBR, Andrey Repin (anrdaemon@yandex.ru) 29.01.2014, <20:22> Sorry for my terrible english... -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Cygwin installer could be much more better 2014-01-29 16:35 ` Andrey Repin @ 2014-01-29 17:34 ` Ilja Umov 0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Ilja Umov @ 2014-01-29 17:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: cygwin, Andrey Repin On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 6:24 PM, Andrey Repin <anrdaemon@yandex.ru> wrote: >> there is a certainly a good historical reason why cygwin installer >> has so many options. But now one-click installers are so common >> (Google Chrome is the best example), it may look rather scary, >> especially for beginners. > > Google chrome is an ONE package. > Cygwin setup installs about a ton of them. > There's no confusion, there's options. Chrome has `about:flags`. I sometimes like to toy around with them too. But again, I usually don't. Picture of `about:flags`, _(which redirects to `chrome://flags/`)_: http://imgur.com/0zO69ZF -- Ilja Umov https://iljau.me/ -- Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2014-01-30 1:13 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 14+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2014-01-29 4:26 Cygwin installer could be much more better Ilja Umov 2014-01-29 4:47 ` Josh Hunsaker 2014-01-29 5:32 ` Christopher Faylor 2014-01-29 6:57 ` Steven Penny 2014-01-29 7:06 ` Steven Penny 2014-01-29 7:28 ` Marco Atzeri 2014-01-29 14:59 ` Christopher Faylor 2014-01-29 20:40 ` iljau 2014-01-29 21:22 ` Larry Hall (Cygwin) 2014-01-29 21:48 ` Steven Penny 2014-01-29 23:45 ` Larry Hall (Cygwin) 2014-01-30 1:13 ` Christopher Faylor 2014-01-29 16:35 ` Andrey Repin 2014-01-29 17:34 ` Ilja Umov
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox; as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).