* Cygwin installer could be much more better
@ 2014-01-29 4:26 Ilja Umov
2014-01-29 4:47 ` Josh Hunsaker
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Ilja Umov @ 2014-01-29 4:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: cygwin
Hi,
there is a certainly a good historical reason why cygwin installer
has so many options. But now one-click installers are so common
(Google Chrome is the best example), it may look rather scary,
especially for beginners.
I did browse a bit though cygwin source code and well, I'm not so
great at C++, that I could help in any meaningful way.
Though I did make a script that downloads and extract list of cygwin
packages (Python>=3.3, because of `.xz` files):
https://github.com/iljau/cyg_fetcher/blob/master/fetch_package_list.py
Didn't quite get to installation part, yet.
Based on my cygwin usage (installing and updating it on multiple
machines) and during process of writing above script I discovered
following:
1) Usually I want to "Install from Internet"
2) Usually "C:\cygwin" is where I want to install it for "All Users".
3) "Local Package Directory" could be just environment variable
%TMP% or %TEMP%. (Still don't understand difference)
4) Usually "Direct connection" is good.
5) The most reliable mirror is (and the only one that supports https):
https://mirrors.kernel.org/sourceware/cygwin/
6) Usually I dont want to "Create Icons", especially after update.
So there are multiple possibilities to provide reasonable defaults
and spare users from confusion.
That's probably why MSYS2 is being developed:
https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Building/Preparation/Windows/MSYS2
Thank you for your attention.
--
Ilja Umov
https://iljau.me
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* Re: Cygwin installer could be much more better
2014-01-29 4:26 Cygwin installer could be much more better Ilja Umov
@ 2014-01-29 4:47 ` Josh Hunsaker
2014-01-29 5:32 ` Christopher Faylor
2014-01-29 6:57 ` Steven Penny
2014-01-29 16:35 ` Andrey Repin
2 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Josh Hunsaker @ 2014-01-29 4:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: cygwin
Ilja Umov wrote:
> I did browse a bit though cygwin source code and well, I'm not so
> great at C++, that I could help in any meaningful way.
>
> <snip>
>
> So there are multiple possibilities to provide reasonable defaults
> and spare users from confusion.
>
> That's probably why MSYS2 is being developed
I'm going to pop some popcorn and wait for the response from cgf of
this one... ;-)
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* Re: Cygwin installer could be much more better
2014-01-29 4:47 ` Josh Hunsaker
@ 2014-01-29 5:32 ` Christopher Faylor
0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Christopher Faylor @ 2014-01-29 5:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: cygwin
On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 09:47:39PM -0700, Josh Hunsaker wrote:
>Ilja Umov wrote:
>
>> I did browse a bit though cygwin source code and well, I'm not so
>> great at C++, that I could help in any meaningful way.
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> So there are multiple possibilities to provide reasonable defaults
>> and spare users from confusion.
>>
>> That's probably why MSYS2 is being developed
>
>I'm going to pop some popcorn and wait for the response from cgf of
>this one... ;-)
Heh.
Ur, something about Thursday, cats? Pragmatically speaking...
Open source! BLODA?
Sorry. I've got nuthin'.
cgf
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* Re: Cygwin installer could be much more better
2014-01-29 4:26 Cygwin installer could be much more better Ilja Umov
2014-01-29 4:47 ` Josh Hunsaker
@ 2014-01-29 6:57 ` Steven Penny
2014-01-29 7:06 ` Steven Penny
2014-01-29 7:28 ` Marco Atzeri
2014-01-29 16:35 ` Andrey Repin
2 siblings, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Steven Penny @ 2014-01-29 6:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: cygwin
On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 10:25 PM, Ilja Umov wrote
> That's probably why MSYS2 is being developed:
> https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Building/Preparation/Windows/MSYS2
Well I have to say I was skeptical until I saw this
$ bash --version
GNU bash, version 4.2.45(1)-release (x86_64-pc-msys)
However this distribution is huge
$ du -hs 'C:\cross64'
763M C:\cross64
Do they have some kind of installer/package manager yet?
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* Re: Cygwin installer could be much more better
2014-01-29 6:57 ` Steven Penny
@ 2014-01-29 7:06 ` Steven Penny
2014-01-29 7:28 ` Marco Atzeri
1 sibling, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Steven Penny @ 2014-01-29 7:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: cygwin
On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 12:57 AM, Steven Penny wrote
> However this distribution is huge
>
> $ du -hs 'C:\cross64'
> 763M C:\cross64
Well I found this for a start
http://sf.net/projects/msys2/files/Base/x86_64
$ du -hs 'C:\msys64'
168M C:\msys64
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* Re: Cygwin installer could be much more better
2014-01-29 6:57 ` Steven Penny
2014-01-29 7:06 ` Steven Penny
@ 2014-01-29 7:28 ` Marco Atzeri
2014-01-29 14:59 ` Christopher Faylor
1 sibling, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Marco Atzeri @ 2014-01-29 7:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: cygwin
On 29/01/2014 07:57, Steven Penny wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 10:25 PM, Ilja Umov wrote
>> That's probably why MSYS2 is being developed:
>> https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Building/Preparation/Windows/MSYS2
>
> Well I have to say I was skeptical until I saw this
>
> $ bash --version
> GNU bash, version 4.2.45(1)-release (x86_64-pc-msys)
>
> However this distribution is huge
>
> $ du -hs 'C:\cross64'
> 763M C:\cross64
>
> Do they have some kind of installer/package manager yet?
>
"This page documents the instructions for setting up a Windows build
using âmsys2, which is a fairly complete build of MinGW + the msys
tools. [cut].
It's also smaller and has a convenient package manager, pacman."
I like the "pacnam" name.
However, coming back to the original request:
Cygwin includes, like any Linux/BSD distrubution, a large amount
of packages of all different categories:
- compilers (C, fortran, C++..)
- script (Bash, Perl, Python,...)
- MAth (Octave, glpk, R, GMP, ...)
- Simulation (ngspice, gnucap...)
- Database (sqlite, postgres, DB,..)
- X Window system
...
No sane one need all of them (~ 11 GB as Warren recently tested
http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2014-01/msg00273.html )
While Crome as single application has a single click setup,
if you want to add any of the several ADD-ONs you need to
add separatly.
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* Re: Cygwin installer could be much more better
2014-01-29 7:28 ` Marco Atzeri
@ 2014-01-29 14:59 ` Christopher Faylor
2014-01-29 20:40 ` iljau
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Christopher Faylor @ 2014-01-29 14:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: cygwin
On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 08:28:33AM +0100, Marco Atzeri wrote:
>On 29/01/2014 07:57, Steven Penny wrote:
>> On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 10:25 PM, Ilja Umov wrote
>>> That's probably why MSYS2 is being developed:
>>> https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Building/Preparation/Windows/MSYS2
>>
>> Well I have to say I was skeptical until I saw this
>>
>> $ bash --version
>> GNU bash, version 4.2.45(1)-release (x86_64-pc-msys)
>>
>> However this distribution is huge
>>
>> $ du -hs 'C:\cross64'
>> 763M C:\cross64
>>
>> Do they have some kind of installer/package manager yet?
>>
>
>
>"This page documents the instructions for setting up a Windows build
>using ???msys2, which is a fairly complete build of MinGW + the msys
>tools. [cut].
>It's also smaller and has a convenient package manager, pacman."
It should be pretty obvious that discussion about MSYS is off-topic.
Please stop.
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* Re: Cygwin installer could be much more better
2014-01-29 4:26 Cygwin installer could be much more better Ilja Umov
2014-01-29 4:47 ` Josh Hunsaker
2014-01-29 6:57 ` Steven Penny
@ 2014-01-29 16:35 ` Andrey Repin
2014-01-29 17:34 ` Ilja Umov
2 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Andrey Repin @ 2014-01-29 16:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ilja Umov, cygwin
Greetings, Ilja Umov!
> there is a certainly a good historical reason why cygwin installer
> has so many options. But now one-click installers are so common
> (Google Chrome is the best example), it may look rather scary,
> especially for beginners.
Google chrome is an ONE package.
Cygwin setup installs about a ton of them.
There's no confusion, there's options.
--
WBR,
Andrey Repin (anrdaemon@yandex.ru) 29.01.2014, <20:22>
Sorry for my terrible english...
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* Re: Cygwin installer could be much more better
2014-01-29 16:35 ` Andrey Repin
@ 2014-01-29 17:34 ` Ilja Umov
0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Ilja Umov @ 2014-01-29 17:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: cygwin, Andrey Repin
On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 6:24 PM, Andrey Repin <anrdaemon@yandex.ru> wrote:
>> there is a certainly a good historical reason why cygwin installer
>> has so many options. But now one-click installers are so common
>> (Google Chrome is the best example), it may look rather scary,
>> especially for beginners.
>
> Google chrome is an ONE package.
> Cygwin setup installs about a ton of them.
> There's no confusion, there's options.
Chrome has `about:flags`. I sometimes like to toy around with them too.
But again, I usually don't.
Picture of `about:flags`, _(which redirects to `chrome://flags/`)_:
http://imgur.com/0zO69ZF
--
Ilja Umov
https://iljau.me/
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* Re: Cygwin installer could be much more better
2014-01-29 14:59 ` Christopher Faylor
@ 2014-01-29 20:40 ` iljau
2014-01-29 21:22 ` Larry Hall (Cygwin)
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: iljau @ 2014-01-29 20:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: cygwin
I'll try to explain situation from my perspective,
Hoping it will be of of interest at least to somebody.
If I need some unix-y things, I usually end up using:
http://www.vagrantup.com/
But using a virtual machine may be a bit too much overhead sometimes.
(As I couldn't find any good intro/tutorial pages for following projects,
direct links to installers are provided, sorry. But if I understand
correctly,
then they are somehow related to: http://mingw-w64.sourceforge.net/
For installing gcc/g++ there's a nice installer:
http://heanet.dl.sourceforge.net/project/mingwbuilds/mingw-builds-install/mingw-builds-install.exe
But sometimes you'll need some libraries as well, then there's :
http://skylink.dl.sourceforge.net/project/mingw/Installer/mingw-get-setup.exe
But sometimes those aren't unix-y enough, then you'd end up using cygwin.
And it just doesn't feel so good.
Blame projects mentioned above for setting expectations too high. ;-D
On 2014-01-29 09:28 Christopher Faylor wrote:
> It should be pretty obvious that discussion about MSYS is off-topic.
> Please stop.
I'll do it.
And again, I'd like to thank all of you for your attention.
--
Ilja Umov
https://iljau.me/
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* Re: Cygwin installer could be much more better
2014-01-29 20:40 ` iljau
@ 2014-01-29 21:22 ` Larry Hall (Cygwin)
2014-01-29 21:48 ` Steven Penny
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Larry Hall (Cygwin) @ 2014-01-29 21:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: cygwin
On 1/29/2014 3:40 PM, iljau wrote:
<snip>
> On 2014-01-29 09:28 Christopher Faylor wrote:
>> It should be pretty obvious that discussion about MSYS is off-topic.
>> Please stop.
>
> I'll do it.
Ah, right. Of course Chris meant "Please stop after Ilja gets his last
comment in." Now that that's happened, MSYS discussion can stop. ;-)
--
Larry
_____________________________________________________________________
A: Yes.
> Q: Are you sure?
>> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.
>>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email?
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* Re: Cygwin installer could be much more better
2014-01-29 21:22 ` Larry Hall (Cygwin)
@ 2014-01-29 21:48 ` Steven Penny
2014-01-29 23:45 ` Larry Hall (Cygwin)
2014-01-30 1:13 ` Christopher Faylor
0 siblings, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Steven Penny @ 2014-01-29 21:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: cygwin
On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 3:21 PM, Larry Hall (Cygwin) wrote
> Ah, right. Of course Chris meant "Please stop after Ilja gets his last
> comment in." Now that that's happened, MSYS discussion can stop. ;-)
You want some on-topic? Ok here goes
Bash 4.2 has been out almost 3 years now, any roadmap for an upgrade? I wouldnt
want Cygwin to become the next you-know-who.
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* Re: Cygwin installer could be much more better
2014-01-29 21:48 ` Steven Penny
@ 2014-01-29 23:45 ` Larry Hall (Cygwin)
2014-01-30 1:13 ` Christopher Faylor
1 sibling, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Larry Hall (Cygwin) @ 2014-01-29 23:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: cygwin
On 1/29/2014 4:48 PM, Steven Penny wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 3:21 PM, Larry Hall (Cygwin) wrote
>> Ah, right. Of course Chris meant "Please stop after Ilja gets his last
>> comment in." Now that that's happened, MSYS discussion can stop. ;-)
>
> You want some on-topic? Ok here goes
>
> Bash 4.2 has been out almost 3 years now, any roadmap for an upgrade?
It's the Cygwin bash maintainer that will have to answer that. Eric,
any thoughts?
--
Larry
_____________________________________________________________________
A: Yes.
> Q: Are you sure?
>> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.
>>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email?
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* Re: Cygwin installer could be much more better
2014-01-29 21:48 ` Steven Penny
2014-01-29 23:45 ` Larry Hall (Cygwin)
@ 2014-01-30 1:13 ` Christopher Faylor
1 sibling, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Christopher Faylor @ 2014-01-30 1:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: cygwin
On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 03:48:17PM -0600, Steven Penny wrote:
>On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 3:21 PM, Larry Hall (Cygwin) wrote
>> Ah, right. Of course Chris meant "Please stop after Ilja gets his last
>> comment in." Now that that's happened, MSYS discussion can stop. ;-)
>
>You want some on-topic? Ok here goes
>
>Bash 4.2 has been out almost 3 years now, any roadmap for an upgrade? I wouldnt
>want Cygwin to become the next you-know-who.
This isn't off-topic but it's one of those terrible things that we do
here which can result in people running screaming in the streets gnawing
at their own limbs.
Please just start a new thread if you have something new to say.
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Thread overview: 14+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2014-01-29 4:26 Cygwin installer could be much more better Ilja Umov
2014-01-29 4:47 ` Josh Hunsaker
2014-01-29 5:32 ` Christopher Faylor
2014-01-29 6:57 ` Steven Penny
2014-01-29 7:06 ` Steven Penny
2014-01-29 7:28 ` Marco Atzeri
2014-01-29 14:59 ` Christopher Faylor
2014-01-29 20:40 ` iljau
2014-01-29 21:22 ` Larry Hall (Cygwin)
2014-01-29 21:48 ` Steven Penny
2014-01-29 23:45 ` Larry Hall (Cygwin)
2014-01-30 1:13 ` Christopher Faylor
2014-01-29 16:35 ` Andrey Repin
2014-01-29 17:34 ` Ilja Umov
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