RE: I am not going to let Cygwin BSOD my Windows 2000 Server

RE: I am not going to let Cygwin BSOD my Windows 2000 Server

[Robert Collins]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles Wilson [mailto:cwilson@ece.gatech.edu] 
> Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 4:14 AM

> (*) has anybody ported GnuPG to cygwin?  Would you mind supporting it 
> and adding it to the cygwin dist?

If someone has ported it to mingw, that would be even better ---- as a
static lib for setup :}.

Rob

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Re: I am not going to let cygwin BSOD my Windows 2000 Server

[Christopher Faylor]

On Sun, Apr 21, 2002 at 08:40:52AM +1000, Robert Collins wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Charles Wilson [mailto:cwilson@ece.gatech.edu] 
>> Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 4:14 AM
>
>> (*) has anybody ported GnuPG to cygwin?  Would you mind supporting it 
>> and adding it to the cygwin dist?
>
>If someone has ported it to mingw, that would be even better ---- as a
>static lib for setup :}.

Yeah, that would be cool.

cgf

(Oops.  Is this a meee tooo?)

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RE: I am not going to let Cygwin BSOD my Windows 2000 Server

[Robert Collins]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: George Hester [mailto:hesterloli@hotmail.com] 
> Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 4:52 PM
> To: cygwin@cygwin.com
> Subject: I am not going to let Cygwin BSOD my Windows 2000 Server

Consider this: A BSOD is equivalent to a unix kernel panic - usermode
software should be unable to produce that result.

If setup.exe EVER BSOD'd your server, it is the problem, not setup.exe. 

Rob

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I am not going to let Cygwin BSOD my Windows 2000 Server

[George Hester]

I realize that at one time setup.exe might not have been all that it was
thought to be.  And that now it may be better.  But once burned many people
do not jump back in the flames.  Well I decided I would stick my little toe
in again and see the results.  I really thought there would be manual
install literature because of the way setup.exe let me download these files.
I had to un bzip2 them; ungz them; untar them and they are now sitting here
ready to be installed.  So I went looking for that Manual install.

Yeah right.  So I wrote here.  A few people have written to me telling me
that I am too dense to do it this way.  No I like to keep my little toes.  I
only have a few you know.

This software I was going to use to help build a Mozilla browser.  If I can
find some other way of making one that I'll do.  But I was hoping literature
of a Manual Install was available.  It seems it isn't.

Suggestion.  Let's consider a Manual Install Direction for us weenies that
lost a few toes trying to install this software in the past.

Thanks.

--
George Hester
_________________________________





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Re: I am not going to let cygwin BSOD my Windows 2000 Server

[Christopher Faylor]

On Sat, Apr 20, 2002 at 02:51:45AM -0400, George Hester wrote:
>Suggestion.  Let's consider a Manual Install Direction for us weenies
>that lost a few toes trying to install this software in the past.

You're making things way too hard for yourself.  Just run setup.exe
and select "Install" rather than "Download".  Then everything will
be installed automatically.  You don't have to unzip/bunzip anything
by hand.  setup.exe has *never* required a manual step like this.

cgf

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Re: I am not going to let cygwin BSOD my Windows 2000 Server

[George Hester]

Do you have all your toes?

--
George Hester
_________________________________
"Christopher Faylor" <cgf-cygwin@cygwin.com> wrote in message
news:20020420070212.GA3256@redhat.com...
> On Sat, Apr 20, 2002 at 02:51:45AM -0400, George Hester wrote:
> >Suggestion.  Let's consider a Manual Install Direction for us weenies
> >that lost a few toes trying to install this software in the past.
>
> You're making things way too hard for yourself.  Just run setup.exe
> and select "Install" rather than "Download".  Then everything will
> be installed automatically.  You don't have to unzip/bunzip anything
> by hand.  setup.exe has *never* required a manual step like this.
>
> cgf
>
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Re: I am not going to let cygwin BSOD my Windows 2000 Server

[Christopher Faylor]

On Sat, Apr 20, 2002 at 03:19:40AM -0400, George Hester wrote:
>Do you have all your toes?

Sure.  My toes are not so sensitive that they become burned off if
I encounter a problem with my system.

I'm also the kind of guy who thinks that if something is working for 99%
of the people out there and *I* have a problem that it is probably *my*
problem.  So, often, I like to figure out what that problem is.
Sometimes, if I don't have enough time or interest, I might wait to see
if a new version of a program solves my problem but I never grow so
averse to trying something new that I steadfastly avoid running a
program because it once gave me problems.

Does that answer your question?

cgf

>_________________________________
>"Christopher Faylor" <cgf-cygwin@cygwin.com> wrote in message
>news:20020420070212.GA3256@redhat.com...
>> On Sat, Apr 20, 2002 at 02:51:45AM -0400, George Hester wrote:
>> >Suggestion.  Let's consider a Manual Install Direction for us weenies
>> >that lost a few toes trying to install this software in the past.
>>
>> You're making things way too hard for yourself.  Just run setup.exe
>> and select "Install" rather than "Download".  Then everything will
>> be installed automatically.  You don't have to unzip/bunzip anything
>> by hand.  setup.exe has *never* required a manual step like this.

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Re: I am not going to let cygwin BSOD my Windows 2000 Server

[David Means]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1114 bytes --]

IMHO, cygwin setup works like a champ.  I've install cygwin on 4
machiness in the past year, nary a BSOD.  

Stick your toes back in.  The water was never that bad in the first
place.

;-)

David

On Sat, 2002-04-20 at 12:35, Christopher Faylor wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 20, 2002 at 03:19:40AM -0400, George Hester wrote:
> >Do you have all your toes?
> 
> Sure.  My toes are not so sensitive that they become burned off if
> I encounter a problem with my system.
> 
> I'm also the kind of guy who thinks that if something is working for 99%
> of the people out there and *I* have a problem that it is probably *my*
> problem.  So, often, I like to figure out what that problem is.
> Sometimes, if I don't have enough time or interest, I might wait to see
> if a new version of a program solves my problem but I never grow so
> averse to trying something new that I steadfastly avoid running a
> program because it once gave me problems.
> 
> Does that answer your question?
> 
> cgf
>
{ snip }

-- 

The Meaning of Life, the Universe and Everything:
           10x + 5x - 35 = x + 7

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Re: I am not going to let cygwin BSOD my Windows 2000 Server

[George Hester]

Sort of.  Maybe it does work for 99% of the people out there.  I know
nothing of that.  And yes, my toes are sensitive to things such as this.  If
I lose my op sys it takes me months to get it back to the condition I had
before its destruction.  You may not believe me but I assure you that is the
case.

The information I have garnered here has helped to maybe stick my toes in
the fire again.  I will wait a while and see if there is any good soul that
can explain the procedures for a manual setup. And if that is pie in the sky
then at that point I will decide if walking around with a few less toes is
worth it.

Thanks.

--
George Hester
_________________________________
"Christopher Faylor" <cgf-cygwin@cygwin.com> wrote in message
news:20020420163557.GB3256@redhat.com...
> On Sat, Apr 20, 2002 at 03:19:40AM -0400, George Hester wrote:
> >Do you have all your toes?
>
> Sure.  My toes are not so sensitive that they become burned off if
> I encounter a problem with my system.
>
> I'm also the kind of guy who thinks that if something is working for 99%
> of the people out there and *I* have a problem that it is probably *my*
> problem.  So, often, I like to figure out what that problem is.
> Sometimes, if I don't have enough time or interest, I might wait to see
> if a new version of a program solves my problem but I never grow so
> averse to trying something new that I steadfastly avoid running a
> program because it once gave me problems.
>
> Does that answer your question?
>
> cgf
>
> >_________________________________
> >"Christopher Faylor" <cgf-cygwin@cygwin.com> wrote in message
> >news:20020420070212.GA3256@redhat.com...
> >> On Sat, Apr 20, 2002 at 02:51:45AM -0400, George Hester wrote:
> >> >Suggestion.  Let's consider a Manual Install Direction for us weenies
> >> >that lost a few toes trying to install this software in the past.
> >>
> >> You're making things way too hard for yourself.  Just run setup.exe
> >> and select "Install" rather than "Download".  Then everything will
> >> be installed automatically.  You don't have to unzip/bunzip anything
> >> by hand.  setup.exe has *never* required a manual step like this.
>
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Re: I am not going to let cygwin BSOD my Windows 2000 Server

[Larry Hall (RFK Partners, Inc)]

At 01:51 PM 4/20/2002, George Hester wrote:
>Sort of.  Maybe it does work for 99% of the people out there.  I know
>nothing of that.  And yes, my toes are sensitive to things such as this.  If
>I lose my op sys it takes me months to get it back to the condition I had
>before its destruction.  You may not believe me but I assure you that is the
>case.
>
>The information I have garnered here has helped to maybe stick my toes in
>the fire again.  I will wait a while and see if there is any good soul that
>can explain the procedures for a manual setup. And if that is pie in the sky
>then at that point I will decide if walking around with a few less toes is
>worth it.



Clearly, you're suffering from phobias which this list is ill-equipped to 
help you resolve.  Your best bet in that regard is to seek help from the 
appropriate forum.

In terms of setup and BSOD issues, Rob is quite right in pointing out that
setup may have once or may now tickle an O/S bug on your system that causes
a BSOD for you but this is an O/S issue, not a setup or Cygwin one.  You want
to talk to M$ about that.  If setup is or was tickling this bug for you, 
there is no permanent damage as a result.  It just means that you have to 
reboot after it runs.  But I fear I'm stepping into the area of your phobia
so I'll abandon this argument.

With respect to the idea of waiting for someone to document installation
steps so that you can follow them, I fear again that you've missed the 
point of this project.  If you're interested in finding this information 
out and really want the answer, it's best to pursue it yourself.  Chris 
Faylor has posted one possible script to do this.  Setup source is another
avenue.  Wait for whatever and whomever you want if that suits you but I
implore you to not bug the list about it in the meantime.  As near as I can 
tell, your phobias have backed you into a corner and you prefer to complain 
to the list about your resulting helplessness rather than taking some action 
that will resolve your problems. 





Larry Hall                              lhall@rfk.com
RFK Partners, Inc.                      http://www.rfk.com
838 Washington Street                   (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office
Holliston, MA 01746                     (508) 893-9889 - FAX


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Re: I am not going to let cygwin BSOD my Windows 2000 Server

[Charles Wilson]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2353 bytes --]

George Hester wrote:


> The information I have garnered here has helped to maybe stick my toes in
> the fire again.  I will wait a while and see if there is any good soul that
> can explain the procedures for a manual setup. And if that is pie in the sky
> then at that point I will decide if walking around with a few less toes is
> worth it.


[Robert, Chris : this isn't intended to detract from setup.exe.  In 
fact, I hope it actually serves to demonstrate how much setup.exe DOES 
for you (since this DOESN'T do those things).  In the future, when 
luddite reactionaries insist on installing cygwin by hand, point them to 
this message with the appropriate disclaimers.  Hopefully we can 
short-circuit future threads of this type.]

Okay, here:

Cygwin used to distribute a "bootstrap.zip" file that allowed 
anti-setup.exe people to shoot themselves in the foot (or head). 
However, in the recent reorganization of the cygwin ftp site, it went 
away.  Well, never let it be said that the cygwin folks are 
overprotective; if you want to shoot yourself in the foot we'll give you 
the tools....

I don't guarantee that this will create a working cygwin installation on 
your system.  I don't even guarantee that the scripts will run without 
error.  I don't warrant the scripts against totally scrogging your 
entire system.  If you use these scripts, you indemnify me and everybody 
else on the planet against any damage they may or may not cause.

Neither I nor anyone else will support these scripts or answer any 
further questions about them.  Neither I nor anyone else will support 
any cygwin installation created by them.  You are totally, completely, 
100% and in all other ways on your own.

That having been said, go here: 
http://www.neuro.gatech.edu/users/cwilson/cygutils/cygwin-bootstrap/

and download bootstrap.zip.  Unpack it.  run bootstrap.bat from a 
command prompt.  Afterwards, you may even be able to use the 
manual_install.bash and manual_uninstall.bash script to (painfully) 
maintain your system.  But then again, maybe not.

The scripts are attached here; bootstrap.zip contains them as well as 
cygwin1.dll, tar.exe, gunzip.exe, gzip.exe, bunzip2.exe, mount.exe, 
sh.exe, bash.exe, and the cygwin-1.3.10-1 package (total size: 1.7M). 
bootstrap-src.zip contains all appropriate sources (total size: 8.4M).

--Chuck

[-- Attachment #2: bootstrap.README --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 1440 bytes --]

This is absolutely, totally, and completely unsupported.
No one will answer any questions about it.  No one will
support a system that was installed using this method.

If it works, great.  If not, also great.  If it completely 
destroys your system, it's your fault, not mine.

How to use:
  - unpack bootstrap.zip using your favorite unzipper
  - run "bootstrap.bat"
  - you now have the core cygwin kernel installed but almost
    nothing else.  There's bash.exe, sh.exe and a few utilities,
	 but you'd better install some packages.
  - the end.

You can also use "manual_install.bash" and "manual_uninstall.bash"
to add or remove cygwin packages.

What these scripts don't do:
  they don't parse filename / version numbers exactly the same
    as the official setup
  they don't handle upgrades (you have to uninstall and then install)
    -- which makes it difficult to upgrade the 'bash' package, for 
	    instance. Ditto gzip, tar, bzip2, and cygwin itself.
  you have to manually correct the /etc/setup/installed.db file; these
    scripts will leave duplicate entries after a reinstall, and don't
	 remove uninstalled entries
  you don't get a handy shortcut for starting cygwin
  they do NOT understand prerequisites and dependencies -- it's even
    possible for the postinstall scripts to fail because they aren't
	 "saved" until the end, and the postinstall script might call an
	 executable that hasn't yet been installed.


[-- Attachment #3: bootstrap.bat --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 1158 bytes --]

rem set this to the desired '/' location
rem other than the '/' vs. '\' difference, the following
rem two variable must be the same
set CYGROOT=C:\cygwin
set CYGROOT_FWDSLASH=C:/cygwin
rem set this to -t for text mounts
set BIN_OR_TEXT=-b
rem set this to -u for a non-system-global installation
set SYSTEM_OR_USER=-s

set CYGVER=1.3.10-1

mkdir %CYGROOT%
mkdir %CYGROOT%\usr
mkdir %CYGROOT%\bin
mkdir %CYGROOT%\lib
mkdir %CYGROOT%\etc
mkdir %CYGROOT%\etc\setup

mount %BIN_OR_TEXT% %SYSTEM_OR_USER% %CYGROOT_FWDSLASH% /
mount %BIN_OR_TEXT% %SYSTEM_OR_USER% -f %CYGROOT_FWDSLASH%/usr/bin /bin
mount %BIN_OR_TEXT% %SYSTEM_OR_USER% -f %CYGROOT_FWDSLASH%/usr/lib /lib
mount %BIN_OR_TEXT% %SYSTEM_OR_USER% --change-cygdrive-prefix /cygdrive

bunzip2 -dc cygwin-%CYGVER%.tar.bz2 | tar -C / -x -v -f -
bunzip2 -dc cygwin-%CYGVER%.tar.bz2 | tar tvf - | gawk '{print $6}' | gzip > %CYGROOT%\etc\setup\cygwin.lst.gz

copy bunzip2.exe %CYGROOT%\usr\bin
copy tar.exe %CYGROOT%\usr\bin
copy gunzip.exe %CYGROOT%\usr\bin
copy sh.exe %CYGROOT%\usr\bin
copy gawk.exe %CYGROOT%\usr\bin
copy manual_install.bash %CYGROOT%\usr\bin
copy manual_uninstall.bash %CYGROOT%\usr\bin


[-- Attachment #4: manual_install.bash --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 1523 bytes --]

#!/bin/bash
shopt -sq extglob

# NOTE: this uses a different algorithm
# for parsing the package name/version/release
# than setup.  However, it mostly works...
parseName() {
  REM=${1%%*([^-])}
  REL=${1##$REM}
  NEXT=${REM%%-}
  REM=${NEXT%%*([^-])}
  VER=${NEXT##$REM}
  PKG=${REM%%-}
}
do_postinstall() {
  while read line ; do
    case $line in
      etc/postinstall/*) 
        `/$line`
         mv /$line /$line.done
         ;;
      *) ;;
    esac
  done < /etc/setup/${PKG}.lst
}

# we need /etc/setup/installed.db so that 'cygcheck -c' will work
if [ ! -f /etc/setup/installed.db ] ; then
  echo "INSTALLED.DB 2" > /etc/setup/installed.db
fi

for fn in $* ; do
  case $fn in
    *-src.tar*) echo "I don't do -src packages" ;;
    *.tar.bz2) 
	   parseName ${fn%%.tar.bz2} 
		echo Installing $PKG  Version $VER  Release $REL
	   bunzip2 -dc $fn | tar -C / -x -v -f -
		bunzip2 -dc $fn | tar -t -v -f - | gawk '{print $6}' |\
		 > /etc/setup/${PKG}.lst
		do_postinstall
		gzip /etc/setup/${PKG}.lst
		echo "$PKG $fn 0" >> /etc/setup/installed.db
      ;;		
	 *.tar.gz)
	   parseName ${fn%%.tar.gz} 
		echo Installing $PKG  Version $VER  Release $REL
	   gunzip -dc $fn | tar -C / -x -v -f -
		gunzip -dc $fn | tar -t -v -f - | gawk '{print $6}' |\
		 > /etc/setup/${PKG}.lst.gz
		do_postinstall
		gzip /etc/setup/${PKG}.lst
		echo "$PKG $fn 0" >> /etc/setup/installed.db
      ;;
	 *) echo bad filespec: $fn ;;
  esac
done

echo "It's up to you to sort and eliminate duplicates in"
echo "/etc/setup/installed.db"


[-- Attachment #5: manual_uninstall.bash --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 1323 bytes --]

#!/bin/bash
shopt -sq extglob

# NOTE: this uses a different algorithm
# for parsing the package name/version/release
# than setup.  However, it mostly works...
parseName() {
  REM=${1%%*([^-])}
  REL=${1##$REM}
  NEXT=${REM%%-}
  REM=${NEXT%%*([^-])}
  VER=${NEXT##$REM}
  PKG=${REM%%-}
}
do_uninstall () {
  DO_POSTSCRIPT=no
  while read line ; do
    case $line in
      etc/postuninstall/*) DO_POSTSCRIPT=$line
      ;;
      */) # ignore directories
      ;;
      *) rm -f /$line
      ;;
    esac
  done < /etc/setup/${PKG}.lst
  if [ "$DO_POSTSCRIPT" -ne "no" ] ; then
    `/$line`
    mv /$line /$line.done
  fi	
}


for fn in $* ; do
  case $fn in
    *-src.tar*) echo "I don't do -src packages" ;;
    *.tar.bz2) 
	   parseName ${fn%%.tar.bz2} 
		echo Unnstalling $PKG  Version $VER  Release $REL
	   gunzip /etc/setup/${PKG}.lst.gz
		do_uninstall
		rm /etc/setup/${PKG}.lst
		echo "$PKG $fn REMOVED" >> /etc/setup/installed.db
      ;;		
	 *.tar.gz)
	   parseName ${fn%%.tar.gz} 
		echo Uninstalling $PKG  Version $VER  Release $REL
	   gunzip /etc/setup/${PKG}.lst.gz
		do_uninstall
		rm /etc/setup/${PKG}.lst
		echo "$PKG $fn REMOVED" >> /etc/setup/installed.db
      ;;
	 *) echo bad filespec: $fn ;;
  esac
done

echo "It's up to you to remove the appropriate entries from"
echo "/etc/setup/installed.db"



[-- Attachment #6: Type: text/plain, Size: 214 bytes --]

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Re: I am not going to let cygwin BSOD my Windows 2000 Server

[Charles Wilson]

ROTFLMAO!!!!

George Hester was the one who wanted all this stuff -- and I just got 
four (count 'em, FOUR) "Message not delivered, virus/sensitive content 
found" bounce messages from HIS account.  Apparently, George's email 
account is paranoid about ".README" files .zip files, in addition to 
panicking over .bat files...

Well, I tried.

--Chuck


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Re: I am not going to let cygwin BSOD my Windows 2000 Server

[Charles Wilson]

Charles Wilson wrote:

> ROTFLMAO!!!!
> 
> George Hester was the one who wanted all this stuff -- and I just got 
> four (count 'em, FOUR) "Message not delivered, virus/sensitive content 
> found" bounce messages from HIS account.  Apparently, George's email 
> account is paranoid about ".README" files .zip files, in addition to 
> panicking over .bat files...


Okay, it's not so funny anymore.  George's "virus" filters also sent 
bounce messages back to the list (and thus to all of you), and not just 
to me.  I just got them first, sent directly to me.

That's some seriously misconfigured mail filtering software ya got 
there, George.

--Chuck



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Re: I am not going to let cygwin BSOD my Windows 2000 Server

[George Hester]

It ain't me man whaaaaa!

--
George Hester
_________________________________
"Charles Wilson" <cwilson@ece.gatech.edu> wrote in message
news:3CC1E1BB.1010409@ece.gatech.edu...
> Charles Wilson wrote:
>
> > ROTFLMAO!!!!
> >
> > George Hester was the one who wanted all this stuff -- and I just got
> > four (count 'em, FOUR) "Message not delivered, virus/sensitive content
> > found" bounce messages from HIS account.  Apparently, George's email
> > account is paranoid about ".README" files .zip files, in addition to
> > panicking over .bat files...
>
>
> Okay, it's not so funny anymore.  George's "virus" filters also sent
> bounce messages back to the list (and thus to all of you), and not just
> to me.  I just got them first, sent directly to me.
>
> That's some seriously misconfigured mail filtering software ya got
> there, George.
>
> --Chuck
>
>
>
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Re: I am not going to let cygwin BSOD my Windows 2000 Server

[Michael A Chase]

On Sat, 20 Apr 2002 17:39:15 -0400 Charles Wilson <cwilson@ece.gatech.edu> wrote:

> ROTFLMAO!!!!
> 
> George Hester was the one who wanted all this stuff -- and I just got 
> four (count 'em, FOUR) "Message not delivered, virus/sensitive content 
> found" bounce messages from HIS account.  Apparently, George's email 
> account is paranoid about ".README" files .zip files, in addition to 
> panicking over .bat files...

I see them too and they don't appear to be coming from George's system.
It appears that some other sites are totally in terror of the possiblility
that someone might execute a batch file without looking at it. 
Considering their level of competence, they may be right.

It kind of reminds me of the open source virus.  You have to build and
install it before running it.
-- 
Mac :})
** I normally forward private questions to the appropriate mail list. **
Ask Smarter: http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.htm
Give a hobbit a fish and he eats fish for a day.
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Re: I am not going to let cygwin BSOD my Windows 2000 Server

[Christopher Faylor]

On Sat, Apr 20, 2002 at 01:51:36PM -0400, George Hester wrote:
>Sort of.  Maybe it does work for 99% of the people out there.  I know
>nothing of that.  And yes, my toes are sensitive to things such as this.  If
>I lose my op sys it takes me months to get it back to the condition I had
>before its destruction.  You may not believe me but I assure you that is the
>case.

If setup.exe causes such horrendous destruction to your system, then I
think it's very likely that Cygwin will do the same.  I suggest that
maybe Cygwin is not something that you want to mess with.

Again, since no one else has to reinstall their system after running
setup, I think I am on pretty safe grounds assuming that this is *your*
problem.  If I was you, I'd be very alarmed about the instability of my
system and I would be doing whatever possible to stabilize it.  Cygwin
setup is the least of your worries.

My crystal ball tells me that your response to this is probably going to
be something like "I only have this problem with Cygwin's setup.exe!"
Well, then you should be thanking us for providing you this valuable
tool which is alerting you to serious problems on your system.

I think you should take a few steps back and ensure that you are running
the most up-to-date version of Windows possible.  If you are running
W2K, make sure that you have installed all of the service packs.  Ditto
for any other Windows version.  You might also want to invest in
something like Norton Systemworks which has diagnostic tools that may
help narrow down what's wrong with your system.  There may also be info
and tools downloadable at www.sysinternals.com.

Other people have said this, but I am going to repeat it: If you get a
BSOD from running an unprivileged program, then there is something wrong
with your system.  This is slightly less true if you are running a
Windows 9x version of the "OS" but, even there, it is likely to be
something wrong with your setup.  The bottom line is that should not be
possible for a simple user app like setup.exe to cause this level of
destruction.

>The information I have garnered here has helped to maybe stick my toes in
>the fire again.  I will wait a while and see if there is any good soul that
>can explain the procedures for a manual setup. And if that is pie in the sky
>then at that point I will decide if walking around with a few less toes is
>worth it.

You really like to beat an analogy into the ground don't you?

Again, I think that you'll have lots of trouble if you try to install
cygwin manually.  I really don't believe that you'll be happy with the
results.  It's entirely possible that this just isn't the project for
you.

cgf

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Re: I am not going to let cygwin BSOD my Windows 2000 Server

[Cliff Hones]

Christopher Faylor wrote on Saturday, April 20, 2002 11:38 PM:
> ...  You might also want to invest in
> something like Norton Systemworks which has diagnostic tools that may
> help narrow down what's wrong with your system.

Hmm.  Recently we had an NT system which was frequently BSOD'ing
(not Cygwin-related).  It had Norton Systemworks installed.
When this was uninstalled, the problem went away.  I suspect
the file deletion recovery extensions were to blame.

If you are having stability problems with any Windows product,
it is adviasable to (a) (as Chris suggested) ensure you have
the latest service packs/hotfixes/security upgrades and
(b) remove or disable any 3rd party software which runs
in the background (eg Antivirus, filestore extensions,
system monitoring etc.).

-- Cliff



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Re: I am not going to let cygwin BSOD my Windows 2000 Server

[George Hester]

It wasn't setup that BSOD'd the op sys it was rebooting after the setup.
Jeeze!  And please if you want to give me the old "screw you" that doesn't
help any.  You may think my op sys is hanging on by it's IDE cable and if so
that's your call.  I cannot believe you suggested installing a Norton
product.  OMYGOD!  Next thing you'll be praising the likes of WinOnCD for
Windows 2000 or a McAfee product.

--
George Hester
_________________________________
"Cliff Hones" <cliff@aonix.co.uk> wrote in message
news:008a01c1e8bf$bd036b40$0101a8c0@albion...
> Christopher Faylor wrote on Saturday, April 20, 2002 11:38 PM:
> > ...  You might also want to invest in
> > something like Norton Systemworks which has diagnostic tools that may
> > help narrow down what's wrong with your system.
>
> Hmm.  Recently we had an NT system which was frequently BSOD'ing
> (not Cygwin-related).  It had Norton Systemworks installed.
> When this was uninstalled, the problem went away.  I suspect
> the file deletion recovery extensions were to blame.
>
> If you are having stability problems with any Windows product,
> it is adviasable to (a) (as Chris suggested) ensure you have
> the latest service packs/hotfixes/security upgrades and
> (b) remove or disable any 3rd party software which runs
> in the background (eg Antivirus, filestore extensions,
> system monitoring etc.).
>
> -- Cliff
>
>
>
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Re: I am not going to let cygwin BSOD my Windows 2000 Server

[Cliff Hones]

> It wasn't setup that BSOD'd the op sys it was rebooting after the setup.
> Jeeze!  And please if you want to give me the old "screw you" that doesn't
> help any.  You may think my op sys is hanging on by it's IDE cable and if so
> that's your call.  I cannot believe you suggested installing a Norton
> product.  OMYGOD!  Next thing you'll be praising the likes of WinOnCD for
> Windows 2000 or a McAfee product.

What the blazes are you talking about?

My suggestion was that Norton or McAfee (and the likes) may be the cause of
your (or others') problems.  They have certainly been known to cause BSODs
when they are active during installs of Cygwin and of other software.

I'm afraid that after all the mails on this subject I'm still
unclear about what your problem is.  The nearest I can come to it is
that long ago you tried installing Cygwin, and your system BSOD'd when
you rebooted it.  And therefore you are refusing to even countenance
using setup.exe ever again.  I must have this wrong, since it is
somewhat illogical.  It seems noone else has seen such behaviour, which
does suggest that it may be your system rather than Cygwin setup.exe
which is to blame, yet you seem to go ballistic at this suggestion.

Why, incidentally, did your system need a reboot after installing
Cygwin?  This is not normally necessary - Cygwin does not install
any system components.  It is one of the least intrusive software
packages I know of.

Nevertheless if you wish to install Cygwin on your server without
using setup.exe, then it is possible, and if you're prepared to
put in a little research you should be able to find out how.
What you won't find is much in the way of support on this list.

-- Cliff



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Re: I am not going to let cygwin BSOD my Windows 2000 Server

[Christopher Faylor]

On Sun, Apr 21, 2002 at 01:48:12PM +0100, Cliff Hones wrote:
>>It wasn't setup that BSOD'd the op sys it was rebooting after the
>>setup.  Jeeze! And please if you want to give me the old "screw you"
>>that doesn't help any.  You may think my op sys is hanging on by it's
>>IDE cable and if so that's your call.  I cannot believe you suggested
>>installing a Norton product.  OMYGOD! Next thing you'll be praising the
>>likes of WinOnCD for Windows 2000 or a McAfee product.
>
>What the blazes are you talking about?
>
>My suggestion was that Norton or McAfee (and the likes) may be the
>cause of your (or others') problems.  They have certainly been known to
>cause BSODs when they are active during installs of Cygwin and of other
>software.

I think the confused Mr.  Hester was responding to my email, actually.
I expected that all of my suggestions would receive this type of
inattentive-yet-hostile response.  Looks like you got the response
intended for me.

Judging by his inability to figure out what email to respond to, his
inability to actually articulate what his problem is, and his sarcastic
response to people who are actually trying to help, I'd suggest that he
merits no more attention here.

I appreciate your (Cliff) letting people know about your experiences
with Norton on XP.  I haven't had similar experiences with Norton lately
but I have annoying things happen with Norton's CrashGuard on 9x.  For
that reason, I usually choose not to install any of the "watch my system
for me" type of utilities.  I just run a periodic scan on things like
the hardware, registry, etc.  and it does seem to work well for tracking
down things like that.

Maybe there are better utilities than Norton for doing this type of
thing, but Norton has met my needs for a couple of years.

I've even used Norton to help track down some strange hanging problems
that my 98 system was experiencing.  I wish, when I had the problem, it
had occurred to me to send email to the manufacturer of every piece of
software that I had running on the system, since it was obviously
*their* problem, not mine.  It would have been a unique experience to
receive a clueless "bug report" from myself, since one of the things on
the system is, of course, cygwin.

At least the last message didn't mention toes...

cgf

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Re: I am not going to let cygwin BSOD my Windows 2000 Server

[Cliff Hones]

cgf worte:
> ...
> I appreciate your (Cliff) letting people know about your experiences
> with Norton on XP. ...

Actually it was with NT4SP6.  And I can't be sure that it was a
bug in the Symantic/Norton code, as the system had been 'repaired'
and the Norton s/w was rather old.  But it does illustrate that
3rd party background monitors can confuse and destabilise windows
systems.

-- Cliff



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Re: I am not going to let cygwin BSOD my Windows 2000 Server

[George Hester]

Got you.  I don't recall if a reboot was necessary.  All I remember was that
the Cygwin installation didn't work.  I then rebooted hoping then it would
work.  It didn't I BSOD'd.  Now that was in Windows 2000 Professional which
is doing very well now thank you.  I was going to put Cygwin in Windows 2000
Server and I was going to try it without the automatic installation in the
setup routine.  So I asked here and have been met with many an encouraging
and discouraging response.  I suppose that's the Way of The World.

--
George Hester
_________________________________
"Cliff Hones" <cliff@aonix.co.uk> wrote in message
news:002f01c1e932$f05abe80$0101a8c0@albion...
>
>
> > It wasn't setup that BSOD'd the op sys it was rebooting after the setup.
> > Jeeze!  And please if you want to give me the old "screw you" that
doesn't
> > help any.  You may think my op sys is hanging on by it's IDE cable and
if so
> > that's your call.  I cannot believe you suggested installing a Norton
> > product.  OMYGOD!  Next thing you'll be praising the likes of WinOnCD
for
> > Windows 2000 or a McAfee product.
>
> What the blazes are you talking about?
>
> My suggestion was that Norton or McAfee (and the likes) may be the cause
of
> your (or others') problems.  They have certainly been known to cause BSODs
> when they are active during installs of Cygwin and of other software.
>
> I'm afraid that after all the mails on this subject I'm still
> unclear about what your problem is.  The nearest I can come to it is
> that long ago you tried installing Cygwin, and your system BSOD'd when
> you rebooted it.  And therefore you are refusing to even countenance
> using setup.exe ever again.  I must have this wrong, since it is
> somewhat illogical.  It seems noone else has seen such behaviour, which
> does suggest that it may be your system rather than Cygwin setup.exe
> which is to blame, yet you seem to go ballistic at this suggestion.
>
> Why, incidentally, did your system need a reboot after installing
> Cygwin?  This is not normally necessary - Cygwin does not install
> any system components.  It is one of the least intrusive software
> packages I know of.
>
> Nevertheless if you wish to install Cygwin on your server without
> using setup.exe, then it is possible, and if you're prepared to
> put in a little research you should be able to find out how.
> What you won't find is much in the way of support on this list.
>
> -- Cliff
>
>
>
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Re: I am not going to let Cygwin BSOD my Windows 2000 Server

[Michael A Chase]

On Sat, 20 Apr 2002 02:51:45 -0400 George Hester <hesterloli@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I realize that at one time setup.exe might not have been all that it was
> thought to be.  And that now it may be better.  But once burned many
> people
> do not jump back in the flames.  Well I decided I would stick my little
> toe
> in again and see the results.  I really thought there would be manual
> install literature because of the way setup.exe let me download these
> files.
> I had to un bzip2 them; ungz them; untar them and they are now sitting
> here
> ready to be installed.  So I went looking for that Manual install.

I'm having trouble understanding how setup.exe became the source of all
evil in the universe.  You had one BSOD months ago which may or may not
have been caused by setup.exe and as a result you are unwilling to try
another version of it ever again.

A client level program like setup.exe shouldn't be able to cause a BSOD and
it doesn't have any of the proprietary hooks into the OS that Microsoft's
programs have, so I'm skeptical of your statement that it caused the BSOD.  
Was it the only non-OS process active on your machine at the time?
Considering the number of BSODs caused by MS Word, MSIE, and MSOE, does
that mean you've stopped using them as well?

-- 
Mac :})
** I normally forward private questions to the appropriate mail list. **
Ask Smarter: http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.htm
Give a hobbit a fish and he eats fish for a day.
Give a hobbit a ring and he eats fish for an age.



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Re: I am not going to let Cygwin BSOD my Windows 2000 Server

[Charles Wilson]

Michael A Chase wrote:


> I'm having trouble understanding how setup.exe became the source of all
> evil in the universe.  You had one BSOD months ago which may or may not
> have been caused by setup.exe and as a result you are unwilling to try
> another version of it ever again.
> 
> A client level program like setup.exe shouldn't be able to cause a BSOD and
> it doesn't have any of the proprietary hooks into the OS that Microsoft's
> programs have, so I'm skeptical of your statement that it caused the BSOD.  
> Was it the only non-OS process active on your machine at the time?
> Considering the number of BSODs caused by MS Word, MSIE, and MSOE, does
> that mean you've stopped using them as well?


I've had a number of BSODs on my machines when I happened to be using 
cygwin setup.  HOWEVER, in EACH and EVERY case, I debugged the memory 
dump -- and guess where the problem was?

McAfee antivirus.

McAfee processes run in kernel mode, it seems, because they intercept 
every disk access.  (setup doesn't run in kernel mode, so it can't 
trigger a kernel panic == BSOD).

The solution is simple -- and when I've followed this procedure, I've 
never had a BSOD.

1) right-click on the little McAfee sheild emblem, choose Quick Enable, 
and turn OFF system scan.
2) similarly, turn OFF download scan
3) turn OFF email scan
4) turn OFF internet filter

5) run setup

6) repeat 1-4, but turn 'em back on.

Now, you may worry about turning off virus protection when running an 
install prograam -- but if you're really worried about it, you can do 
the following:

a) do steps 1-6 above, but run setup in "download only" mode
b) Use your antivirus program and scan each tarball that setup downloaded
b-optional) you could also download the .md5 files from your favorite 
cygwin mirror, and check the tarballs' signature...but since the 
tarballs are unsigned, anybody who'd spoof the tarball could also spoof 
the md5.  Signed tarballs are on the wishlist.(*)
c) repeat steps 1-6 above, but within setup, install from the local 
directory you previously d/led into.

Note: To date, there has not been a single case of infected files being 
distributed by the cygwin mirror system.  Although there have been a 
number of false alarms.

--Chuck

(*) has anybody ported GnuPG to cygwin?  Would you mind supporting it 
and adding it to the cygwin dist?


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Re: I am not going to let Cygwin BSOD my Windows 2000 Server

[George Hester]

Have mercy upon me please.OK I'll come clean.  This was so long ago (18 mos)
that I don't really remember what exactly happened.  But I do know that it
didn't work.  I have the old Cygwin CD package which I bought from Cygwin.
I took the one I downloaded and installed from Redhat and removed it.  I am
not going to go into what I had to do to remove it it was too long ago.  I
then installed the one from the CD.  That one didn't work either.  I then
installed the CD Cygwin in Windows 98 and it worked about 98% wasn't too
bad.

So to be as staright as I can, Cygwin in Windows 2000 Professional failed 18
mos ago.  Over that time I believed it failed BSOD.  But as I said I may be
wrong about that.

Although I asked for what I thought would be an easy enough request, I find
that I must have hit a nerve.  Could be what I asked for or how I asked for
it.  The former I know what's necessary now the later sorry.

--
George Hester
_________________________________
"George Hester" <hesterloli@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a9r365$mj3$1@main.gmane.org...
> I realize that at one time setup.exe might not have been all that it was
> thought to be.  And that now it may be better.  But once burned many
people
> do not jump back in the flames.  Well I decided I would stick my little
toe
> in again and see the results.  I really thought there would be manual
> install literature because of the way setup.exe let me download these
files.
> I had to un bzip2 them; ungz them; untar them and they are now sitting
here
> ready to be installed.  So I went looking for that Manual install.
>
> Yeah right.  So I wrote here.  A few people have written to me telling me
> that I am too dense to do it this way.  No I like to keep my little toes.
I
> only have a few you know.
>
> This software I was going to use to help build a Mozilla browser.  If I
can
> find some other way of making one that I'll do.  But I was hoping
literature
> of a Manual Install was available.  It seems it isn't.
>
> Suggestion.  Let's consider a Manual Install Direction for us weenies that
> lost a few toes trying to install this software in the past.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> George Hester
> _________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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Re: I am not going to let Cygwin BSOD my Windows 2000 Server

[Paul G.]

FWIW, All I think any one really needs here is to be certain that you have done and checked every possibility (that 
you can) out your self before bringing it up on the list.  Check mailing list archives, etc.

	Once it is clear that you have checked every possibiliity (there are a lot of very intelligent people here and 
most can determine the cause of something simply by reading the post for as long as that post provides sufficient 
information/test-cases to work with).

	Can't recall, but I believe there are at least 500 people who depend on this list for feedback and support 
where Cygwin is concerned.  A fair amount of them use Cygwin for critical operations (server or otherwise).  If a 
problem still persists, then provide test cases and/or linear data sufficient enough to invoke the resources of this 
mailing list.

	The traffic, here, can be great.  I believe that what I've referenced above above are just some of the main 
assumptions where questions about Cygwin are concerned, or any of the Cygwin Setup included apps/binutils/utils 
are concerned.  I trust that cgf or any of the moderators for this list "will" correct me if I am missing something.  That 
is just part of what they do.  My part is to be very clear about what I see occurring now, and to report that to the best 
of my ability to the mailing list if that is what becomes necessary after addressing the (not unrealistic) expectations 
noted above.

	Paul G.

On 21 Apr 2002 at 23:18, George Hester wrote:

> Have mercy upon me please.OK I'll come clean.  This was so long ago
> (18 mos) that I don't really remember what exactly happened.  But I do
> know that it didn't work.  I have the old Cygwin CD package which I
> bought from Cygwin. I took the one I downloaded and installed from
> Redhat and removed it.  I am not going to go into what I had to do to
> remove it it was too long ago.  I then installed the one from the CD. 
> That one didn't work either.  I then installed the CD Cygwin in
> Windows 98 and it worked about 98% wasn't too bad.
> 
> So to be as staright as I can, Cygwin in Windows 2000 Professional
> failed 18 mos ago.  Over that time I believed it failed BSOD.  But as
> I said I may be wrong about that.
> 
> Although I asked for what I thought would be an easy enough request, I
> find that I must have hit a nerve.  Could be what I asked for or how I
> asked for it.  The former I know what's necessary now the later sorry.
> 
> --
> George Hester
> _________________________________
> "George Hester" <hesterloli@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:a9r365$mj3$1@main.gmane.org...
> > I realize that at one time setup.exe might not have been all that it
> > was thought to be.  And that now it may be better.  But once burned
> > many
> people
> > do not jump back in the flames.  Well I decided I would stick my
> > little
> toe
> > in again and see the results.  I really thought there would be
> > manual install literature because of the way setup.exe let me
> > download these
> files.
> > I had to un bzip2 them; ungz them; untar them and they are now
> > sitting
> here
> > ready to be installed.  So I went looking for that Manual install.
> >
> > Yeah right.  So I wrote here.  A few people have written to me
> > telling me that I am too dense to do it this way.  No I like to keep
> > my little toes.
> I
> > only have a few you know.
> >
> > This software I was going to use to help build a Mozilla browser. 
> > If I
> can
> > find some other way of making one that I'll do.  But I was hoping
> literature
> > of a Manual Install was available.  It seems it isn't.
> >
> > Suggestion.  Let's consider a Manual Install Direction for us
> > weenies that lost a few toes trying to install this software in the
> > past.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > --
> > George Hester
> > _________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug
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