RE: cygwin presentation ???

RE: cygwin presentation ???

[Brian.Kelly]

Appreciate the positive recognition of my humerous effort - for a laugh was
the only agenda I was pursuing.

For all those who might otherwise question my motives, "political
commentary" is often "couched" in humor.
The fact that some find it "funny" and others "offensive" means that there
is a thread of truth weaving through it.
The truth is the truth - whether that truth is self-evident, enlightening,
or offensive is left completely up to the
interpretation of the individual. Cygwin has some "shortcomings". DUH. Of
course - it's evolving. The complaint
weaved into the humor is that cygwin is not for "dummies" - and that the
dummies find this annoying. I'm "kind"
of a dummy myself, so I can relate to the "dummy community's" complaints in
this regard. Yet, I know that "dummies"
are not the target audience for cygwin but in fact are more recent
"interlopers" - if there is such a thing. That's
the curse of success - the more powerful cygwin becomes, the more DUMMIES
it's gonna attract. So the
complaints about it's "user friendliness" are only gonna get more frequent
and more vocal as time goes on.

So for those who get a little bent when someone complains about the lack of
"wizards" and "plug and play",
the fact is, such rabble wouldn't even be singing if cygwin wasn't first
and foremost AN OUTRAGEOUS SUCCESS.

Ah well, there's always the bad that comes with the good .......

Brian Kelly





"Gary R. Van Sickle" <g.r.vansickle@worldnet.att.net>@cygwin.com on
06/26/2003 10:39:47 PM

Sent by:    cygwin-owner@cygwin.com


To:    cygwin@cygwin.com
cc:     (bcc: Brian Kelly/WTC1/Empire)

Subject:    RE: cygwin presentation ???


>
> List Rule #1      Cygwin has no problems - only issues.
>
> Rule #2           If you have an "issue" you can "issue" it to the list -
> but only if it is a problem.
>

Wait wait wait - your numbering is off:


First rule of Cygwin: You do not talk about Cygwin.

Second rule of Cygwin: You DO NOT talk about Cygwin.


And one of these IS the new Official Cygwin Slogan:

""U" don't "win" with Cygwin"

Perhaps with a subhead: "I'm posixtive about that!"

Or:

"Cygwin - use it and SHUT UP."

Priceless dude!

--
Gary R. Van Sickle
Brewer.  Patriot.


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"WellChoice, Inc." made the following
 annotations on 06/27/2003 12:44:58 PM
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Re: cygwin presentation ???

[Brian.Kelly]

Suggested presentation:

Hello,

First, use the setup and be satisfied with the results - even and
especially if it causes your machine to hang and you lose a days worth of
work. Cygwin is more important anything else you might have been doing.

If you don't like the size of the setup program, right click on desktop,
properties, settings, Screen Area - 640x480. If someone else later
complains about the screen size, tell them to contact Microsoft.

Run setup, if the download dialogue is still cycling after 30 days, it
means you're out of warranty. (OK that was a joke, Cygwin has NO warranty!)

If you have to ask "how do I use it" - you'll never be able to.

"cyg" was chosen instead of "u" because "u" was already taken. Besides "u"
don't "win" with cygwin - I'm posixtive about that!

List Rule #1      Cygwin has no problems - only issues.

Rule #2           If you have an "issue" you can "issue" it to the list -
but only if it is a problem.

Rule #3           See Rule #1

With cygwin, the "mean"s are always more important than the ends.

Case Study #1

      You have a production problem that requires a code fix ( a comma
needs to be changed to a semi-colon ).

      When opening the file with Vim, you notice that it took 2 seconds
longer than usual to open a 100 meg file.

Do you:

      a:    Ignore the delay and use Vim to fix your Production problem

      b:    use cmd /c edit file

      c:    sed 's/,/;/g' file

      d:    Forget your "problem" and start debugging the cygwin "issue"

The correct answer was given at the start of this presentation.

Finally, if you have an "issue" be prepared to have your sanity questioned
first followed by a week of hazing and then a month of silence.

By then you should have solved the issue and provided a patch.

Finally, I leave you with this directive:

Cygwin - use it and SHUT UP.

Thank you!










"Christopher Faylor" <cgf-rcm@cygwin.com>@cygwin.com on 06/26/2003 12:40:34
AM

Please respond to cygwin@cygwin.com

Sent by:    cygwin-owner@cygwin.com


To:    cygwin@cygwin.com
cc:     (bcc: Brian Kelly/WTC1/Empire)

Subject:    Re: cygwin presentation ???


On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 09:13:19PM -0400, Larry Hall wrote:
>R. Scott Baer wrote:
>>No ones done a presintation to their local LUG(or anyone else) on
>>cygwin ??
>
>Sorry no.  We're all just users here, not evangelists.  ;-)

If I gave a presentation I'd end up scaring everyone with my mean visage
anyway.

Well, that's not entirely true.  I gave a presentation about cygwin once
and
just bored a large group of people.  Of course, it eventually became clear
that
they only spoke French so I felt somewhat vindicated.

cgf
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"WellChoice, Inc." made the following
 annotations on 06/26/2003 07:35:35 AM
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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confidential and/or privileged.  The information is intended solely for the
individual or entity named above and access by anyone else is unauthorized.
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Re: cygwin presentation ???

[Max Bowsher]

Brian.Kelly@Empireblue.com wrote:
> Suggested presentation:
[ Snip various derogatory comments about Cygwin. ]

You could take a few moments to step back from your rant, and consider the
nature of Cygwin - a volunteer project. You could allow yourself to be
pleasantly surprised by the general cohesiveness of a project assembled by
many different people worldwide. You could accept the fact that there are no
omniscient Cygwin deities, who do not deign to answer questions, only a
group of people who don't know the answer to *every* question posted to
cygwin@cygwin.com, and reconsider your reaction to silence in light of that.

Or, you could continue to be pointlessly angry. It's your call.


Max.


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Re: cygwin presentation ???

[Larry Hall]

Brian.Kelly@Empireblue.com wrote:

> Suggested presentation:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> First, use the setup and be satisfied with the results - even and
> especially if it causes your machine to hang and you lose a days worth of
> work. Cygwin is more important anything else you might have been doing.
> 
> If you don't like the size of the setup program, right click on desktop,
> properties, settings, Screen Area - 640x480. If someone else later
> complains about the screen size, tell them to contact Microsoft.
> 
> Run setup, if the download dialogue is still cycling after 30 days, it
> means you're out of warranty. (OK that was a joke, Cygwin has NO warranty!)
> 
> If you have to ask "how do I use it" - you'll never be able to.
> 
> "cyg" was chosen instead of "u" because "u" was already taken. Besides "u"
> don't "win" with cygwin - I'm posixtive about that!
> 
> List Rule #1      Cygwin has no problems - only issues.
> 
> Rule #2           If you have an "issue" you can "issue" it to the list -
> but only if it is a problem.
> 
> Rule #3           See Rule #1
> 
> With cygwin, the "mean"s are always more important than the ends.
> 
> Case Study #1
> 
>       You have a production problem that requires a code fix ( a comma
> needs to be changed to a semi-colon ).
> 
>       When opening the file with Vim, you notice that it took 2 seconds
> longer than usual to open a 100 meg file.
> 
> Do you:
> 
>       a:    Ignore the delay and use Vim to fix your Production problem
> 
>       b:    use cmd /c edit file
> 
>       c:    sed 's/,/;/g' file
> 
>       d:    Forget your "problem" and start debugging the cygwin "issue"
> 
> The correct answer was given at the start of this presentation.
> 
> Finally, if you have an "issue" be prepared to have your sanity questioned
> first followed by a week of hazing and then a month of silence.
> 
> By then you should have solved the issue and provided a patch.
> 
> Finally, I leave you with this directive:
> 
> Cygwin - use it and SHUT UP.
> 
> Thank you!
> 


LOL!  Maybe we should put this on the Web site.  It's perfect! :-)


-- 
Larry Hall                              http://www.rfk.com
RFK Partners, Inc.                      (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office
838 Washington Street                   (508) 893-9889 - FAX
Holliston, MA 01746


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Re: cygwin presentation ???

[Igor Pechtchanski]

On Thu, 26 Jun 2003, Larry Hall wrote:

> Brian.Kelly@Empireblue.com wrote:
>
> > Suggested presentation:
> > [snip]
> > Finally, I leave you with this directive:
> > Cygwin - use it and SHUT UP.
> > Thank you!
>
> LOL!  Maybe we should put this on the Web site.  It's perfect! :-)

Well, it's certainly a very catchy slogan... :-)
	Igor
-- 
				http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/
      |\      _,,,---,,_		pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu
ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_		igor@watson.ibm.com
     |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'		Igor Pechtchanski, Ph.D.
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RE: cygwin presentation ???

[Gary R. Van Sickle]

> 
> List Rule #1      Cygwin has no problems - only issues.
> 
> Rule #2           If you have an "issue" you can "issue" it to the list -
> but only if it is a problem.
> 

Wait wait wait - your numbering is off:


First rule of Cygwin: You do not talk about Cygwin.

Second rule of Cygwin: You DO NOT talk about Cygwin.


And one of these IS the new Official Cygwin Slogan:

""U" don't "win" with Cygwin"

Perhaps with a subhead: "I'm posixtive about that!"

Or:

"Cygwin - use it and SHUT UP."

Priceless dude!

-- 
Gary R. Van Sickle
Brewer.  Patriot. 
 

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cygwin presentation ???

[Baer, Scott [LBRT/LNA]]

Hello,

I'm getting ready to do a presentation to our local LUG on cygwin.. and
wondered if anyone has put something together that I can work from ?  
If not, I'm sure I can come up with something..  (basically the way I use
it,.. remote X... but I know cygwin is so much bigger than that)

Just thought I would check first.

Thanks for your time,

Scott

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Re: cygwin presentation ???

[R. Scott Baer]

No ones done a presintation to their local LUG(or anyone else) on cygwin ??

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Baer, Scott [LBRT/LNA]" <Scott.Baer@liebert.com>
To: <cygwin@cygwin.com>
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 2:51 PM
Subject: cygwin presentation ???


> 
> Hello,
> 
> I'm getting ready to do a presentation to our local LUG on cygwin.. and
> wondered if anyone has put something together that I can work from ?  
> If not, I'm sure I can come up with something..  (basically the way I use
> it,.. remote X... but I know cygwin is so much bigger than that)
> 
> Just thought I would check first.
> 
> Thanks for your time,
> 
> Scott
> 
> --
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> 

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Re: cygwin presentation ???

[Larry Hall]

R. Scott Baer wrote:
> No ones done a presintation to their local LUG(or anyone else) on cygwin ??


Sorry no.  We're all just users here, not evangelists. ;-)


-- 
Larry Hall                              http://www.rfk.com
RFK Partners, Inc.                      (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office
838 Washington Street                   (508) 893-9889 - FAX
Holliston, MA 01746


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Re: cygwin presentation ???

[Christopher Faylor]

On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 09:13:19PM -0400, Larry Hall wrote:
>R. Scott Baer wrote:
>>No ones done a presintation to their local LUG(or anyone else) on
>>cygwin ??
>
>Sorry no.  We're all just users here, not evangelists.  ;-)

If I gave a presentation I'd end up scaring everyone with my mean visage
anyway.

Well, that's not entirely true.  I gave a presentation about cygwin once and
just bored a large group of people.  Of course, it eventually became clear that
they only spoke French so I felt somewhat vindicated.

cgf
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Re: cygwin presentation ???

[andrew brian clegg]

There's always this:

http://www.usenix.org/publications/library/proceedings/usenix-nt98/full_papers/noer/noer.pdf

But it is a bit out of date now.

I'm sure there used to be a link to it from the cygwin homepage but I 
can't find it now, unless I've lost the plot.

Andrew.

On Thu, 26 Jun 2003, Christopher Faylor wrote:

> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 00:40:34 -0400
> From: Christopher Faylor <cgf-rcm@cygwin.com>
> Reply-To: cygwin@cygwin.com
> To: cygwin@cygwin.com
> Subject: Re: cygwin presentation ???
> 
> On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 09:13:19PM -0400, Larry Hall wrote:
> >R. Scott Baer wrote:
> >>No ones done a presintation to their local LUG(or anyone else) on
> >>cygwin ??
> >
> >Sorry no.  We're all just users here, not evangelists.  ;-)
> 
> If I gave a presentation I'd end up scaring everyone with my mean visage
> anyway.
> 
> Well, that's not entirely true.  I gave a presentation about cygwin once and
> just bored a large group of people.  Of course, it eventually became clear that
> they only spoke French so I felt somewhat vindicated.
> 
> cgf
> --
> Please use the resources at cygwin.com rather than sending personal email.
> Special for spam email harvesters: send email to aaaspam@sourceware.org
> and be permanently blocked from mailing lists at sources.redhat.com
> 


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Re: cygwin presentation ???

[Ronald Landheer-Cieslak]

Sorry, should have spoken up sooner.

I am about to give a presentation on Cygwin (in french, so I don't have 
the same language problems cgf apparently had).

Basically, the red line in the presentation will be:
* Cygwin - what is it?
  * Cygwin - the - kernel
  * Cygwin - the - distribution
* Cygwin - what is it good for?
  * Kernel: POSIX emulation layer
  * Distri: UNIX-like working environment with many, many tools
* Cygwin distribution - what does it contain?
* Cygwin distribution - how to install (demo)
* Cygwin distribution - how to use (some examples of compiling, running, 
  handling the shell)
* Cygwin - what can WE use it for?
  * The utils we'll use here
    * Autotools
    * GNU Make
    * GNU Compiler Collection
  * How to use those utils in light of portability of the code
    * GCC C&C++ standards compliance
    * POSIX functions provided by Cygwin
    * Windows stuff not in Cygwin (structures exceptions)
* Cygwin - what is it not?
  * gcc != libc (a common mistake here, so I had to put it in)
  * Cygwin != UNIX

I don't show X because (mostly) I don't use it (I do everything on a 
console). I demonstrate just about everything with little programs I've 
prepared in advance that will or will not compile with Cygwin resp. MSVC. 
I also give a demonstration of Setup by partially installing the Cygwin 
net distro (I'll make sure not to have installed everything on the 
demonstration machine in advance, but I'll also install at least part of 
the distro so the installation doesn't take too long).

For the people here, I need to put the accent on gcc et al, and a bit less 
on Cygwin itself (the kernel). They're mostly Windows programmers used to 
GUIs, MSVC, Borland C++ Builder, etc. The goal is to at least be able to 
compile the programs under Cygwin so I have a bit less to do porting them 
to UNIX.

HTH

rlc

On Mon, 23 Jun 2003, Baer, Scott [LBRT/LNA] wrote:

> 
> Hello,
> 
> I'm getting ready to do a presentation to our local LUG on cygwin.. and
> wondered if anyone has put something together that I can work from ?  
> If not, I'm sure I can come up with something..  (basically the way I use
> it,.. remote X... but I know cygwin is so much bigger than that)
> 
> Just thought I would check first.
> 
> Thanks for your time,
> 
> Scott
> 
> --
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> 


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