Re: Setup.exe and accessability

Re: Setup.exe and accessability

[lhall]

Sorry Igor.  One must always submit a patch in order to post to 
this email list.  Please reformulate all your email (retroactively)
to be posts in the form of a patch.  Chris, is there any way to 
block posts to this list that aren't patches?  Oops!  My email isn't
a patch either! ;-) ;-) ;-)

Seriously, no one expects all comments, suggestions, or requests to come
with patches (at least not on this list ;-) )  I hope no one really has 
that impression.  Generally, I think responses that suggest submitting a 
patch are meant to indicate to the original poster that the request or 
comment would see more immediate fruition if a patch is included.  Sometimes
folks expect there's an idle group of developers just hanging around waiting
to jump on the next request from the list.  Even if the current audience 
doesn't have that perception, making a clear statement that someone who may
later search the archives can find is often helpful.  So please don't be 
offended by any response suggesting a patch... unless it makes you want to 
submit one! ;-)

Larry

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Igor Pechtchanski pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 12:03:31 -0400 (EDT)
To: cygwin@cygwin.com
Subject: Re: Setup.exe and accessability


On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, Christopher Faylor wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 25, 2002 at 02:05:14PM +0200, Lars Bj?rndal wrote:
> >As far I can see, you can not select individual packages within
> >setup.exe without using the mouse. I'm blind, and therefore I can not
> >install cygwin without assistance from a sighted person. Is it
> >possible that this will be changed in the next version? Or is there a
> >posibility that I have not seen?
>
> The only thing that I can think of that could possibly be of use is
> the oft-mentioned command line options for setup.exe.  Various people
> have mentioned that they were going to work on this but I've never
> seen anyone (besides Robert of course) follow through on fully realizing
> this to the point where you can install packages from the command line.

Adding keyboard shortcuts to the package selection screen (i.e., <Tab>bing
to the Action column and the checkboxes) would do it as well, I suppose.
"Did I phrase that sufficiently neutrally to avoid being asked to submit a
patch?" (C) R. Schulz.
	Igor
-- 
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"Water molecules expand as they grow warmer" (C) Popular Science, Oct'02,
p.51


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Re: Setup.exe and accessability

[Igor Pechtchanski]

Hmm, did I sound that serious? :-D
	Igor

On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, lhall@pop.ma.ultranet.com wrote:

> Sorry Igor.  One must always submit a patch in order to post to
> this email list.  Please reformulate all your email (retroactively)
> to be posts in the form of a patch.  Chris, is there any way to
> block posts to this list that aren't patches?  Oops!  My email isn't
> a patch either! ;-) ;-) ;-)
>
> Seriously, no one expects all comments, suggestions, or requests to come
> with patches (at least not on this list ;-) )  I hope no one really has
> that impression.  Generally, I think responses that suggest submitting a
> patch are meant to indicate to the original poster that the request or
> comment would see more immediate fruition if a patch is included.  Sometimes
> folks expect there's an idle group of developers just hanging around waiting
> to jump on the next request from the list.  Even if the current audience
> doesn't have that perception, making a clear statement that someone who may
> later search the archives can find is often helpful.  So please don't be
> offended by any response suggesting a patch... unless it makes you want to
> submit one! ;-)
>
> Larry
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Igor Pechtchanski pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu
> Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 12:03:31 -0400 (EDT)
> To: cygwin@cygwin.com
> Subject: Re: Setup.exe and accessability
>
>
> On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, Christopher Faylor wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Oct 25, 2002 at 02:05:14PM +0200, Lars Bj?rndal wrote:
> > >As far I can see, you can not select individual packages within
> > >setup.exe without using the mouse. I'm blind, and therefore I can not
> > >install cygwin without assistance from a sighted person. Is it
> > >possible that this will be changed in the next version? Or is there a
> > >posibility that I have not seen?
> >
> > The only thing that I can think of that could possibly be of use is
> > the oft-mentioned command line options for setup.exe.  Various people
> > have mentioned that they were going to work on this but I've never
> > seen anyone (besides Robert of course) follow through on fully realizing
> > this to the point where you can install packages from the command line.
>
> Adding keyboard shortcuts to the package selection screen (i.e., <Tab>bing
> to the Action column and the checkboxes) would do it as well, I suppose.
> "Did I phrase that sufficiently neutrally to avoid being asked to submit a
> patch?" (C) R. Schulz.
> 	Igor

-- 
				http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/
      |\      _,,,---,,_		pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu
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     |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'		Igor Pechtchanski
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"Water molecules expand as they grow warmer" (C) Popular Science, Oct'02, p.51


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Re: Setup.exe and accessability

[amores perros]

>Sorry Igor.  One must always submit a patch in order to post to
>this email list.  Please reformulate all your email (retroactively)
>to be posts in the form of a patch.  Chris, is there any way to
>block posts to this list that aren't patches?  Oops!  My email isn't
>a patch either! ;-) ;-) ;-)


Actually I believe it is democratic.
I was insulted both on & off list for the patch I
submitted, so it isn't discrimination against people
who do not submit patches...

Now another patch for consideration -- I add a paragraph
to the lists.html which says that if you get a sarcastic
response, it may not be personal. I don't know if you all will
want this of course, but I offer it freely as a suggestion.

******************************
** ChangeLog entry
******************************

2002-10-27 Perry Rapp

        * lists.html

        Added a paragraph to encourage newbies to take sarcasm lightly.

******************************
** patch (cvs -q diff -up lists.html)
******************************

Index: lists.html
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvs/cygwin/htdocs/lists.html,v
retrieving revision 1.106
diff -u -p -r1.106 lists.html
--- lists.html  15 Sep 2002 20:43:02 -0000      1.106
+++ lists.html  28 Oct 2002 00:26:11 -0000
@@ -58,6 +58,15 @@ observations.  This means that if you <e
need to present yourself in such a fashion that people will want to help
you.  So, think thrice, post once.</p>

+<p>As we've mentioned, there are many repeat questions, and posts by
+newbies which rather rudely insist on immediate features, so some of
+the developers (many of whom are volunteers) are sometimes brusque or
+sarcastic. If you receive a discouraging response, it may not be
+because of who you are, but merely because you happen to be the second,
+fourth, or fiftieth person asking the question. So if you would try to
+take any sarcasm lightly, we would appreciate it.
+
+
<p>Finally, make sure when you send a message to a Cygwin list that it
actually has <em>something to do with Cygwin</em>.  What do we mean by
that?  Well, if you can't install the Cygwin C compiler, then that has


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Re: Setup.exe and accessability

[lhall]

No Igor I understood your intent.  I was just chose your "introduction"
of the topic to restate a general policy of the list, in case anyone felt
there had been any change.  Sorry for "picking on you".

People should feel free to post to this list and have only 1 out of every 2 
posts contain a patch. ;-) ;-) ;-)

Larry


Original Message:
-----------------
From: Igor Pechtchanski pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 12:42:52 -0400 (EDT)
To: lhall@rfk.com, cygwin@cygwin.com
Subject: Re: Setup.exe and accessability


Hmm, did I sound that serious? :-D
	Igor

On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, lhall@pop.ma.ultranet.com wrote:

> Sorry Igor.  One must always submit a patch in order to post to
> this email list.  Please reformulate all your email (retroactively)
> to be posts in the form of a patch.  Chris, is there any way to
> block posts to this list that aren't patches?  Oops!  My email isn't
> a patch either! ;-) ;-) ;-)
>
> Seriously, no one expects all comments, suggestions, or requests to come
> with patches (at least not on this list ;-) )  I hope no one really has
> that impression.  Generally, I think responses that suggest submitting a
> patch are meant to indicate to the original poster that the request or
> comment would see more immediate fruition if a patch is included. 
Sometimes
> folks expect there's an idle group of developers just hanging around
waiting
> to jump on the next request from the list.  Even if the current audience
> doesn't have that perception, making a clear statement that someone who
may
> later search the archives can find is often helpful.  So please don't be
> offended by any response suggesting a patch... unless it makes you want to
> submit one! ;-)
>
> Larry
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Igor Pechtchanski pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu
> Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 12:03:31 -0400 (EDT)
> To: cygwin@cygwin.com
> Subject: Re: Setup.exe and accessability
>
>
> On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, Christopher Faylor wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Oct 25, 2002 at 02:05:14PM +0200, Lars Bj?rndal wrote:
> > >As far I can see, you can not select individual packages within
> > >setup.exe without using the mouse. I'm blind, and therefore I can not
> > >install cygwin without assistance from a sighted person. Is it
> > >possible that this will be changed in the next version? Or is there a
> > >posibility that I have not seen?
> >
> > The only thing that I can think of that could possibly be of use is
> > the oft-mentioned command line options for setup.exe.  Various people
> > have mentioned that they were going to work on this but I've never
> > seen anyone (besides Robert of course) follow through on fully realizing
> > this to the point where you can install packages from the command line.
>
> Adding keyboard shortcuts to the package selection screen (i.e., <Tab>bing
> to the Action column and the checkboxes) would do it as well, I suppose.
> "Did I phrase that sufficiently neutrally to avoid being asked to submit a
> patch?" (C) R. Schulz.
> 	Igor

-- 
				http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/
      |\      _,,,---,,_		pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu
ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_		igor@watson.ibm.com
     |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'		Igor Pechtchanski
    '---''(_/--'  `-'\_) fL	a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-.  Meow!

"Water molecules expand as they grow warmer" (C) Popular Science, Oct'02,
p.51


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RE: Setup.exe and accessability

[Harig, Mark A.]

both are needed (of course).  a detailed command-line
interface would allow for the creation of automated
tests for this most-visible of Cygwin programs.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Igor Pechtchanski [mailto:pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu]
> Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 12:04 PM
> To: cygwin@cygwin.com
> Subject: Re: Setup.exe and accessability
> 
> 
> On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, Christopher Faylor wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, Oct 25, 2002 at 02:05:14PM +0200, Lars Bj?rndal wrote:
> > >As far I can see, you can not select individual packages within
> > >setup.exe without using the mouse. I'm blind, and 
> therefore I can not
> > >install cygwin without assistance from a sighted person. Is it
> > >possible that this will be changed in the next version? Or 
> is there a
> > >posibility that I have not seen?
> >
> > The only thing that I can think of that could possibly be of use is
> > the oft-mentioned command line options for setup.exe.  
> Various people
> > have mentioned that they were going to work on this but I've never
> > seen anyone (besides Robert of course) follow through on 
> fully realizing
> > this to the point where you can install packages from the 
> command line.
> 
> Adding keyboard shortcuts to the package selection screen 
> (i.e., <Tab>bing
> to the Action column and the checkboxes) would do it as well, 
> I suppose.
> "Did I phrase that sufficiently neutrally to avoid being 
> asked to submit a
> patch?" (C) R. Schulz.
> 	Igor
> -- 
> 				http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/
>       |\      _,,,---,,_		pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu
> ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_		igor@watson.ibm.com
>      |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'		Igor Pechtchanski
>     '---''(_/--'  `-'\_) fL	a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-.  Meow!
> 
> "Water molecules expand as they grow warmer" (C) Popular 
> Science, Oct'02, p.51
> 
> 
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Setup.exe and accessability

[Lars Bjørndal]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 663 bytes --]

As far I can see, you can not select individual packages within
setup.exe without using the mouse. I'm blind, and therefore I can not
install cygwin without assistance from a sighted person. Is it
possible that this will be changed in the next version? Or is there a
posibility that I have not seen?

Lars
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[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 143 bytes --]


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[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 214 bytes --]

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Re: Setup.exe and accessability

[Christopher Faylor]

On Fri, Oct 25, 2002 at 02:05:14PM +0200, Lars Bj?rndal wrote:
>As far I can see, you can not select individual packages within
>setup.exe without using the mouse. I'm blind, and therefore I can not
>install cygwin without assistance from a sighted person. Is it
>possible that this will be changed in the next version? Or is there a
>posibility that I have not seen?

The only thing that I can think of that could possibly be of use is
the oft-mentioned command line options for setup.exe.  Various people
have mentioned that they were going to work on this but I've never
seen anyone (besides Robert of course) follow through on fully realizing
this to the point where you can install packages from the command line.

Sorry.

cgf
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Re: Setup.exe and accessability

[Igor Pechtchanski]

On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, Christopher Faylor wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 25, 2002 at 02:05:14PM +0200, Lars Bj?rndal wrote:
> >As far I can see, you can not select individual packages within
> >setup.exe without using the mouse. I'm blind, and therefore I can not
> >install cygwin without assistance from a sighted person. Is it
> >possible that this will be changed in the next version? Or is there a
> >posibility that I have not seen?
>
> The only thing that I can think of that could possibly be of use is
> the oft-mentioned command line options for setup.exe.  Various people
> have mentioned that they were going to work on this but I've never
> seen anyone (besides Robert of course) follow through on fully realizing
> this to the point where you can install packages from the command line.

Adding keyboard shortcuts to the package selection screen (i.e., <Tab>bing
to the Action column and the checkboxes) would do it as well, I suppose.
"Did I phrase that sufficiently neutrally to avoid being asked to submit a
patch?" (C) R. Schulz.
	Igor
-- 
				http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/
      |\      _,,,---,,_		pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu
ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_		igor@watson.ibm.com
     |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'		Igor Pechtchanski
    '---''(_/--'  `-'\_) fL	a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-.  Meow!

"Water molecules expand as they grow warmer" (C) Popular Science, Oct'02, p.51


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Re: Setup.exe and accessability

[Christopher Faylor]

On Fri, Oct 25, 2002 at 12:03:31PM -0400, Igor Pechtchanski wrote:
>Adding keyboard shortcuts to the package selection screen (i.e., <Tab>bing
>to the Action column and the checkboxes) would do it as well, I suppose.
>"Did I phrase that sufficiently neutrally to avoid being asked to submit a
>patch?" (C) R. Schulz.

I'm not clear on what you're saying.  Are you saying that you are actually
working on this now?  That's great!

cgf
(heh heh heh)

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RE: Setup.exe and accessability

[Gary R. Van Sickle]

> As far I can see, you can not select individual packages within
> setup.exe without using the mouse.

That is currently the case, yes.

> I'm blind, and therefore I can not
> install cygwin without assistance from a sighted person. Is it
> possible that this will be changed in the next version? Or is there a
> posibility that I have not seen?

If it's any consolation, there's a lot of sighted people that don't much care
for the package selection page either ;-).  About all I can say is that we are
aware of the issue, and IIRC there are a few things in the queue (e.g. better
command-line functionality) that will help once they land.

--
Gary R. Van Sickle
Brewer.  Patriot.




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