Re: General comments...

Re: General comments...

[Elfyn McBratney]

> There is one thing that I find almost annoying with the setup utility.
> At a certain point it feels VERY slow; when the list of packages to
> download/install is about to open up. This may take anything from a
> little while to ages to open (No, I haven't measured time so far). As
> there is NO progress display it feels as a very long delay. Please,
> consider adding a progress display of some sort.

I'm on a P4 2.64Ghz/512 DDR-RAM/Over 100Gb HD Space and it's slow for me ;-) I do like the the idea of a prograss dialog when setup is reading the packages from lcoal disk though.

> One more thing: As I'm running the download through an ISDN line
> (charge based on time up), it is vital for me to be able to disconnect
> ASAP. Minimal support for handling this in a good manner would be to
> display information regarding whether the utility needs the line to be
> up or not.

Isn't that kinda up to the user. When you finish downloading new packages you kill your internet connection as cygwin setup won't need it. It shouldn't be up to setup to say:

Hey you, yes you, I'm finished guzzling your internet connection, switch it off....

Elfyn
elfyn@exposure.org.uk

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Re: General comments...

[Dave Hooper]

> I'm on a P4 2.64Ghz/512 DDR-RAM/Over 100Gb HD Space and it's slow for me
> ;-) I do like the the idea of a prograss dialog when setup is reading the
> packages from lcoal disk though.

The major spot I've noticed with slowness is when if you click on the text
"Default" in the packages list (initial view, so whatever that is,
Curr/All I guess), and it takes a million years (without an hourglass) to
change to "Install" (or whatever the next setting is :-) ).  On several
occasions I've found myself repeatedly clicking it, just in case it missed
my previous clicks, meaning that it skips past Default and goes to
Uninstall or something... Bah.  Infuriating.

Oh, something somewhere also leaks memory like a seive.  I tried to do a
full install (of, yes, everything), and halfway through downloading the
perl package it started gobbling memory until it fell over.  I have over a
gig of swap space and at the time nothing else was using it ;-)

>> Minimal support for handling this in a good manner would be to
>> display information regarding whether the utility needs the line to be
>> up or not.
>
> Isn't that kinda up to the user. When you finish downloading new packages
> you kill your internet connection as cygwin setup won't need it.

I totally disagree.  Cygwin setup has two phases, download and install. 
Install takes almost as long as download on many machines!  So in an ideal
world Cygwin would automatically hang up if it had initially autodialled
the internet connection  (maybe it does this, I'm not on dial up), or pop
up a message box saying "Finished downloading, click OK to install" or
similar.

Is the source for setup.exe in cvs anyway?

d

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Re: General comments...

[Igor Pechtchanski]

On Wed, 8 Jan 2003, Dave Hooper wrote:

> [snip]
> Is the source for setup.exe in cvs anyway?
> d

Yes.  See <http://sources.redhat.com/cygwin-apps/setup.html>.
	Igor
P.S. Should there also be a link to it on the cygwin home page?
Incidentally, <http://cygwin.com/cygwin-apps/setup.html> doesn't work.
-- 
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     |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'		Igor Pechtchanski
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  -- /usr/games/fortune


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Re: General comments...

[Christopher Faylor]

On Wed, Jan 08, 2003 at 10:08:46AM -0500, Igor Pechtchanski wrote:
>P.S. Should there also be a link to it on the cygwin home page?

No.

>Incidentally, <http://cygwin.com/cygwin-apps/setup.html> doesn't work.

Did somebody say it would?

cgf

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Re: General comments...

[Max Bowsher]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christopher Faylor" <cgf@redhat.com>
To: <cygwin@cygwin.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: General comments...


> On Wed, Jan 08, 2003 at 10:08:46AM -0500, Igor Pechtchanski wrote:
> >P.S. Should there also be a link to it on the cygwin home page?
> 
> No.
> 
> >Incidentally, <http://cygwin.com/cygwin-apps/setup.html> doesn't work.
> 
> Did somebody say it would?

No, but is it a bug or a feature that it doesn't :-)

Max.


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Setup.exe discussion (was Re: General comments...)

[Max Bowsher]

Dave Hooper wrote:
> The major spot I've noticed with slowness is when if you click on the
> text "Default" in the packages list (initial view, so whatever that
> is, Curr/All I guess), and it takes a million years (without an
> hourglass) to change to "Install"

Yes. If only I can find a sufficiently contiguous block of free time...

> Oh, something somewhere also leaks memory like a seive.

I haven't encountered this. Maybe you would like to try the snapshot at
http://cygwin.com/setup-snapshots/ ?

>> Isn't that kinda up to the user. When you finish downloading new
>> packages you kill your internet connection as cygwin setup won't
>> need it.
>
> I totally disagree.  Cygwin setup has two phases, download and
> install. Install takes almost as long as download on many machines!
> So in an ideal world Cygwin would automatically hang up if it had
> initially autodialled the internet connection  (maybe it does this,
> I'm not on dial up), or pop up a message box saying "Finished
> downloading, click OK to install" or similar.

Autodialling isn't something that (most) programs do. Windows does it for
them. So setup doesn't know if a connection was made on it's account or not.

Isn't the change from downloading to installing info enough?

> Is the source for setup.exe in cvs anyway?

Of course it is. http://sources.redhat.com/cygwin-apps/setup.html

Max.


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RE: General comments...

[Hannu E K Nevalainen (garbage mail)]

> From: Elfyn McBratney [mailto:elfyn-cygwin@sickpuppy.co.uk]

> > Please,
> > consider adding a progress display of some sort.
>
> I'm on a P4 2.64Ghz/512 DDR-RAM/Over 100Gb HD Space and it's slow
> for me ;-) I do like the the idea of a prograss dialog when setup
> is reading the packages from lcoal disk though.

 So one <AOL> Mee too </AOL> counted ;-)
That was one of the things I asked for :-)

> > One more thing: As I'm running the download through an ISDN line
> > (charge based on time up), it is vital for me to be able to disconnect
> > ASAP. Minimal support for handling this in a good manner would be to
> > display information regarding whether the utility needs the line to be
> > up or not.
>
> Isn't that kinda up to the user. When you finish downloading new
> packages you kill your internet connection as cygwin setup won't
> need it. It shouldn't be up to setup to say:
>
> Hey you, yes you, I'm finished guzzling your internet connection,
> switch it off....

 Maybe I was a bit unclear here; I'm "always" doing other stuff while
the/any download proceeds in the background. I'd still like to be
notified(sp) about it having finished, in a sane manner - so I can go on
typing (or whatever)...
NOTE THE PROBLEM: Do not pop up an ACTIVE dialog; I would be typing on the
keyboard, thus possibly ruining it all.

> Elfyn
> elfyn@exposure.org.uk

/Hannu E K Nevalainen, Mariefred, Sweden


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RE: Setup.exe

[Dave Hooper]

>  Maybe I was a bit unclear here; I'm "always" doing other stuff while
> the/any download proceeds in the background. I'd still like to be
> notified(sp) about it having finished, in a sane manner - so I can go on
> typing (or whatever)...
> NOTE THE PROBLEM: Do not pop up an ACTIVE dialog; I would be typing on the
> keyboard, thus possibly ruining it all.

Ah, that's easy then.  Just make the setup.exe title bar flash.  This will
also make the toolbar button (start bar, program bar, whatever) flash too,
so you can still be notified even if setup.exe is hidden behind a bunch of
windows, or minimized.  As sane as it comes and a one-line change.

Also, in response to some questions about Autodial - I think the point I
was trying to make didn't come across.  I wasn't suggesting Windows
doesn't autodial, and I certainly wasn't suggesting that, if Windows does
autodial then it doesn't autohangup.  What I meant was:

If a program tries to access the internet, and Windows DOES autodial, and
the program (while it is still running) stops accessing the internet,
Windows will only autohangup after the timeout.  Therefore what I was
suggesting was a hint to windows to say, look, I've finished with it, hang
up now if you like, don't bother waiting for the timeout.

The reason being that the timeout is usually of the order of a couple
minutes, but if the program running knows it isn't going to need to
connect again, Windows can disconnect saving 120 seconds of phone bill.

However as the original poster pointed out, they DON'T want a popup
message and when Windows prompts to disconnect that's exactly what DOES
happen.  So, forget my autodial discussion because as it transpires that
will solve no-one's problems except my own imagined ones  (I'm not even on
dialup!)

But the flashing titlebar ought to be put in next time someone tweaks the
code, it's a oneliner.


d

General comments...

[Hannu E K Nevalainen (garbage mail)]

Hello.

 Now it has been a while since I installed cygwin (all of it!)
on my PII/450Mhz Compaq Presario (Model 5670 w 256MB RAM/60G HD).
 This is three years old hardware and I'm finding more and more
things that feels slow, so it's no speed demon any longer.

 There is one thing that I find almost annoying with the setup
utility.
 At a certain point it feels VERY slow; when the list of packages to
download/install is about to open up. This may take anything from a little
while to ages to open (No, I haven't measured time
so far). As there is NO progress display it feels as a very long
delay. Please, consider adding a progress display of some sort.

Also: I feel that I have to verify settings all the time. I download
packages into a local directory(1), then install them
from there: I have to run the utility twice AND click the NEXT
button "a hundred times" ;-)
My suggesttion: Add an option to "use last settings" for the selected
operation (download or install), having it GO at once.

One more thing: As I'm running the download through an ISDN line (charge
based on time up), it is vital for me to be able to disconnect ASAP.
 Minimal support for handling this in a good manner would be to
display information regarding whether the utility needs the line
to be up or not.

/Hannu E K Nevalainen, Mariefred, Sweden
(1) To be able to REINSTALL all of it, fresh - in case of
trouble, whatever "sort of" it might be.


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