RE: python and cygwin

RE: python and cygwin

[DePriest, Jason R.]

Cygwin aims to do both.

It provides *nix tools running on Windows from a DLL implemented POSIX
environment.  Or something like that.

There are other places to get some of the GNU tools ported to Win32
without the cygwin1.dll requirement.  However, you do not get the full
benefits of a robust and maintained *nix-ish development environment.

So either cygwin meets your needs or it doesn't.

In your case, what cygwin provides might be overkill.

http://cygwin.com/cygwin-ug-net/overview.html
[quote]Cygwin is a Linux-like environment for Windows. It consists of a
DLL (cygwin1.dll), which acts as an emulation layer providing
substantial POSIX (Portable Operating System Interface) system call
functionality, and a collection of tools, which provide a Linux look and
feel. The Cygwin DLL works with all x86 versions of Windows since
Windows 95.[/quote]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: cygwin-owner at cygwin dot com 
> [mailto: cygwin-owner at cygwin dot com] On Behalf Of Totte Karlsson
> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 5:29 PM
> To: cygwin at cygwin dot com
> Subject: Re: python and cygwin
> 
> 
> OK, I see,
> However, it seems as if I can execute the win32 python 
> interpreter from
> within the cygwin bash shell, and it seems to work as long 
> the cygwin path
> come into play, which is "unfortunate".
> 
> I thought the idea with cygwin was to provide unix tools working under
> windows, not to make windows into unix/posix? Now it looks as 
> if I need to
> have two sets of python running, one for cygwin and one for 
> windows, and
> both are running in windows! It is something fishy with that 
> I think..?
> 
> 


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RE: python and cygwin

[Igor Pechtchanski]

Actually, the main goal of Cygwin is to annoy users and to give a vent to
the innate meanness of its developers.

The secondary goal of Cygwin is to provide POSIX compatibility.  The Unix
tools are incidental. :-)
	Igor

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, DePriest, Jason R. wrote:

> Cygwin aims to do both.
>
> It provides *nix tools running on Windows from a DLL implemented POSIX
> environment.  Or something like that.
>
> There are other places to get some of the GNU tools ported to Win32
> without the cygwin1.dll requirement.  However, you do not get the full
> benefits of a robust and maintained *nix-ish development environment.
>
> So either cygwin meets your needs or it doesn't.
>
> In your case, what cygwin provides might be overkill.
>
> http://cygwin.com/cygwin-ug-net/overview.html
> [quote]Cygwin is a Linux-like environment for Windows. It consists of a
> DLL (cygwin1.dll), which acts as an emulation layer providing
> substantial POSIX (Portable Operating System Interface) system call
> functionality, and a collection of tools, which provide a Linux look and
> feel. The Cygwin DLL works with all x86 versions of Windows since
> Windows 95.[/quote]
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cygwin-owner at cygwin dot com
> > [mailto: cygwin-owner at cygwin dot com] On Behalf Of Totte Karlsson
> > Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 5:29 PM
> > To: cygwin at cygwin dot com
> > Subject: Re: python and cygwin
> >
> >
> > OK, I see,
> > However, it seems as if I can execute the win32 python interpreter
> > from within the cygwin bash shell, and it seems to work as long the
> > cygwin path come into play, which is "unfortunate".
> >
> > I thought the idea with cygwin was to provide unix tools working under
> > windows, not to make windows into unix/posix? Now it looks as if I
> > need to have two sets of python running, one for cygwin and one for
> > windows, and both are running in windows! It is something fishy with
> > that I think..?

-- 
				http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/
      |\      _,,,---,,_		pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu
ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_		igor@watson.ibm.com
     |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'		Igor Pechtchanski, Ph.D.
    '---''(_/--'  `-'\_) fL	a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-.  Meow!

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Re: python and cygwin

[Christopher Faylor]

On Fri, Feb 20, 2004 at 06:55:19PM -0500, Igor Pechtchanski wrote:
>Actually, the main goal of Cygwin is to annoy users and to give a vent to
>the innate meanness of its developers.
>
>The secondary goal of Cygwin is to provide POSIX compatibility.  The Unix
>tools are incidental. :-)

Thank you for making this clarification.  I was getting ready to type
this in and now I don't have to!

I guess a clarifying web page update is called for.  I won't update it,
though, because, well, you know...

cgf

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RE: python and cygwin

[Totte Karlsson]

 
Thanks,
I appreciate your reply very much! I needed to hear something like that in
order to "stop", unfortunately..
/totte 


-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Hall
To: Totte Karlsson; cygwin@cygwin.com
Sent: 2/20/2004 6:58 PM
Subject: Re: python and cygwin

At 08:45 PM 2/20/2004, Totte Karlsson you wrote:
>I guess the problem is, as I see it, if cygwin was the "perfect" unix
tool
>running under windows, it would integrate with existing windows tools.
It
>does that to some extent, but not fully and that is the problem. If I
want a
>pure unix environment, on the other hand, then I would use the real
stuff,
>such as Linux or qnx on which I do most of my work... but nothing is
perfect
>as we know..


OK, sounds like you're quite new to Cygwin and haven't really figured
out
what it is and how it would work for you.  It isn't Linux.  It isn't
MKS.
It isn't SFU.  It isn't just a bunch of GNU tools ported to Windows.
And
it certainly isn't Windows!  Anyway, your argument above has been made 
before and hashed out on this list.  If you're interested in feedback on
this point, I suggest you consult the email archive.  If you just want
to 
learn what Cygwin is and how to best use it, read through the User's
Guide and the FAQ.  That should give you a pretty good idea of where 
Cygwin fits.  You can then determine whether Cygwin is what you're
looking
for or if you would prefer one of the myriad of possibilities I
mentioned
above (or something else).  But please don't drag us down a path that 
folks on this list have seen too many times before.  We don't expect you
to know that this topic has been covered.  We just ask that you do your
part and research the past before broaching a subject like this in the 
present once it is pointed out that there's history to all this.

HTH,


--
Larry Hall                              http://www.rfk.com
RFK Partners, Inc.                      (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office
838 Washington Street                   (508) 893-9889 - FAX
Holliston, MA 01746                     

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python and cygwin

[Totte Karlsson]

Hi, I want to run my python scripts in a cygwin bash shell, but have
problems.
It seems as if python don't understand the cygwin path.
If I'm placed in the directory in where the pythonscript is located, it
works fine, if I'm in another directory it don't work. I get the error

python.exe: can't open file '/cygrive ... the path to the
script/theScript.py'

Any suggestions?
I guess it should be straightforward to just setup the paths in .bashrc, but
maybe not!
regards
/totte




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Re: python and cygwin

[Totte Karlsson]

Seems as if I got it working by downloading python "for cygwin"?. I already
had python for windows installed and I thought cygwin would used that one
automatically? Guess one has to set it up somewhere?

/totte

"Totte Karlsson" <tkarlsson@qm.com> wrote in message
news:c160pf$ocm$1@sea.gmane.org...
> Hi, I want to run my python scripts in a cygwin bash shell, but have
> problems.
> It seems as if python don't understand the cygwin path.
> If I'm placed in the directory in where the pythonscript is located, it
> works fine, if I'm in another directory it don't work. I get the error
>
> python.exe: can't open file '/cygrive ... the path to the
> script/theScript.py'
>
> Any suggestions?
> I guess it should be straightforward to just setup the paths in .bashrc,
but
> maybe not!
> regards
> /totte
>
>
>
>




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Re: python and cygwin

[Brian Dessent]

Totte Karlsson wrote:
> 
> Seems as if I got it working by downloading python "for cygwin"?. I already
> had python for windows installed and I thought cygwin would used that one
> automatically? Guess one has to set it up somewhere?

The win32 python and the Cygwin python are completely seperate and
different.  They do not share anything or "use each other".  One is
compiled for a unix/posix environment, the other for a win32 one.  The
same is true for Perl, with Cygwin perl vs. Activestate perl.

Brian

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Re: python and cygwin

[Totte Karlsson]

OK, I see,
However, it seems as if I can execute the win32 python interpreter from
within the cygwin bash shell, and it seems to work as long the cygwin path
come into play, which is "unfortunate".

I thought the idea with cygwin was to provide unix tools working under
windows, not to make windows into unix/posix? Now it looks as if I need to
have two sets of python running, one for cygwin and one for windows, and
both are running in windows! It is something fishy with that I think..?



"Brian Dessent" <brian@dessent.net> wrote in message
news:40369000.3B3EE444@dessent.net...
> Totte Karlsson wrote:
> >
> > Seems as if I got it working by downloading python "for cygwin"?. I
already
> > had python for windows installed and I thought cygwin would used that
one
> > automatically? Guess one has to set it up somewhere?
>
> The win32 python and the Cygwin python are completely seperate and
> different.  They do not share anything or "use each other".  One is
> compiled for a unix/posix environment, the other for a win32 one.  The
> same is true for Perl, with Cygwin perl vs. Activestate perl.
>
> Brian
>




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Re: python and cygwin

[Brian Dessent]

Totte Karlsson wrote:

> However, it seems as if I can execute the win32 python interpreter from
> within the cygwin bash shell, and it seems to work as long the cygwin path
> come into play, which is "unfortunate".

The win32 one has no idea what a posix (e.g. /cygdrive or /usr/bin) path
is, and how could it?  So naturally it complains if you try to
force-feed it one.  Luckily under win32 the forward slash is treated
equally as a path separator as backslash so if you stick to relative
paths you can usually fake it.

The order that they are listed in your $PATH determines which one is
executed.  What I do, and what I assume most other Cygwin users do, is
prepend the cygwin paths to $PATH in the shell startup, but leave the
$PATH free of all cygwin stuff for the rest of windows.  That means when
you're at a bash prompt you get the Cygwin version of Python, and when
you're at a regular Windows command prompt you get the win32 version of
Python.

> I thought the idea with cygwin was to provide unix tools working under
> windows, not to make windows into unix/posix? Now it looks as if I need to
> have two sets of python running, one for cygwin and one for windows, and
> both are running in windows! It is something fishy with that I think..?

AFAIK, the goal of Cygwin is to provide a posix environment.  If you
want to use native win32 versions of things then do it outside of
Cygwin.  There are times when you'd want to use either/both.  For
example python scripts that require curses will work under Cygwin but
not win32, whereas those that need wxPython will work with win32 but not
Cygwin.  Generic python scripts should work equally well in either, path
considerations noted.

Brian

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Re: python and cygwin

[Thorsten Kampe]

* Totte Karlsson (2004-02-21 00:29 +0100)
> OK, I see, However, it seems as if I can execute the win32 python
> interpreter from within the cygwin bash shell, and it seems to work
> as long the cygwin path come into play, which is "unfortunate". 
> 
> I thought the idea with cygwin was to provide unix tools working
> under windows,

Exactly. That's why you need the python binary for Cygwin. 

> not to make windows into unix/posix?

I hope at least you know what you mean by that. 

> Now it looks as if I need to have two sets of python running, one
> for cygwin and one for windows,

In fact you don't, as long as you translate Posix paths to Windows
(via "cygpath -w"). Many Cygwin utilities also understand Windows
paths ("cd 'C:\', "cd C:/", etc).

> and both are running in windows!

No, one runs in Windows and the other one under Cygwin. You can always
run the Cygwin binaries from Windows (ls, d, etc. work for me in a
Windows cmd.exe console window). Many Windows binaries work *directly*
in Cygwin bash or zsh (also much slower, so it's wise to execute them
in a cmd subshell).


Thorsten


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Re: python and cygwin

[Totte Karlsson]

I guess the problem is, as I see it, if cygwin was the "perfect" unix tool
running under windows, it would integrate with existing windows tools. It
does that to some extent, but not fully and that is the problem. If I want a
pure unix environment, on the other hand, then I would use the real stuff,
such as Linux or qnx on which I do most of my work... but nothing is perfect
as we know..

When I open up a "cygwin-bash" on windows, I just thought that I could use
my already installed "win-32" python. I realize now that you can't and I
think that creates problems. As a programmer I don't like do have to
duplicate things. I only want one "repository".

> > and both are running in windows!
>
> No, one runs in Windows and the other one under Cygwin. You can always
> run the Cygwin binaries from Windows (ls, d, etc. work for me in a
> Windows cmd.exe console window). Many Windows binaries work *directly*
> in Cygwin bash or zsh (also much slower, so it's wise to execute them
> in a cmd subshell).
>

It sounds as if you are talking about cygwin as an operating system, on
which you can run cygwin applications. Sounds weird, they are all running on
windows as far as I can see.. at least on my machine.
cheers
/tk




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RE: python and cygwin

[Norman Vine]

Totte Karlsson writes:
>  
> When I open up a "cygwin-bash" on windows, I just thought that I could use
> my already installed "win-32" python. 

One of the things Cygwin provides is a standard POSIX interface 
to the OS.  Cygwin  Python is built on top of this.  

If you want to use a Python that interfaces to the Win32 OS then 
you want to use the Win32 version of Python.

To do so you will need to invoke some $PATH trickery and 
be responsible for proper 'path' translations.

Good Luck,  this link might help
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&newwindow=1&safe=off&selm=u65e6i753.fsf%40fitlinxx.com&rnum=3

Norman


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Re: python and cygwin

[Thorsten Kampe]

* Totte Karlsson (2004-02-21 02:45 +0100)
> When I open up a "cygwin-bash" on windows, I just thought that I
> could use my already installed "win-32" python. I realize now that
> you can't

As I already told you in my answer: You *can* with a little effort.
Python as a multiplatform scripting language is even better suited for
that as any other Windows tool/program.

> and I think that creates problems. As a programmer I don't like do
> have to duplicate things. I only want one "repository".

When you install Zope for instance on Windows you have to make some
effort to use an existing Python installation and not the Python
interpreter that comes with Zope. Same with Cygwin.

Thorsten


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Re: python and cygwin

[Larry Hall]

At 08:45 PM 2/20/2004, Totte Karlsson you wrote:
>I guess the problem is, as I see it, if cygwin was the "perfect" unix tool
>running under windows, it would integrate with existing windows tools. It
>does that to some extent, but not fully and that is the problem. If I want a
>pure unix environment, on the other hand, then I would use the real stuff,
>such as Linux or qnx on which I do most of my work... but nothing is perfect
>as we know..


OK, sounds like you're quite new to Cygwin and haven't really figured out
what it is and how it would work for you.  It isn't Linux.  It isn't MKS.
It isn't SFU.  It isn't just a bunch of GNU tools ported to Windows.  And
it certainly isn't Windows!  Anyway, your argument above has been made 
before and hashed out on this list.  If you're interested in feedback on
this point, I suggest you consult the email archive.  If you just want to 
learn what Cygwin is and how to best use it, read through the User's
Guide and the FAQ.  That should give you a pretty good idea of where 
Cygwin fits.  You can then determine whether Cygwin is what you're looking
for or if you would prefer one of the myriad of possibilities I mentioned
above (or something else).  But please don't drag us down a path that 
folks on this list have seen too many times before.  We don't expect you
to know that this topic has been covered.  We just ask that you do your
part and research the past before broaching a subject like this in the 
present once it is pointed out that there's history to all this.

HTH,


--
Larry Hall                              http://www.rfk.com
RFK Partners, Inc.                      (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office
838 Washington Street                   (508) 893-9889 - FAX
Holliston, MA 01746                     


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Re: python and cygwin

[Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes]

On Fri, Feb 20, 2004 at 05:45:33PM -0800, Totte Karlsson <tkarlsson@qm.com> wrote:
> When I open up a "cygwin-bash" on windows, I just thought that I could use
> my already installed "win-32" python. I realize now that you can't and I
> think that creates problems. As a programmer I don't like do have to
> duplicate things. I only want one "repository".

You can use your already innstalled python.  You just may need to do a
little work to make sure paths are correctly translated.  I'm not sure
exactly what you were doing to feed python a /cygdrive... path; you may
just need to replace the #! line in your script to point to a wrapper
that does a cygpath -w translation on its first argument.

Does anyone know if there is any particular reason that PATH translation
ends up with /cygdrive/x/... rather than x:/...?

> It sounds as if you are talking about cygwin as an operating system, on
> which you can run cygwin applications.

That's a good way to think of it.

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Re: python and cygwin

[Larry Hall]

At 01:30 PM 2/22/2004, Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes you wrote:
>On Fri, Feb 20, 2004 at 05:45:33PM -0800, Totte Karlsson <tkarlsson@qm.com> wrote:
>> When I open up a "cygwin-bash" on windows, I just thought that I could use
>> my already installed "win-32" python. I realize now that you can't and I
>> think that creates problems. As a programmer I don't like do have to
>> duplicate things. I only want one "repository".
>
>You can use your already innstalled python.  You just may need to do a
>little work to make sure paths are correctly translated.  I'm not sure
>exactly what you were doing to feed python a /cygdrive... path; you may
>just need to replace the #! line in your script to point to a wrapper
>that does a cygpath -w translation on its first argument.
>
>Does anyone know if there is any particular reason that PATH translation
>ends up with /cygdrive/x/... rather than x:/...?
>


Sure.  You get that when you ask 'cygpath' for a POSIX path.  Maybe this is
not what you meant but I can't help beyond this without some specifics to 
your question.


--
Larry Hall                              http://www.rfk.com
RFK Partners, Inc.                      (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office
838 Washington Street                   (508) 893-9889 - FAX
Holliston, MA 01746                     


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Re: python and cygwin

[Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes]

On Sun, Feb 22, 2004 at 01:43:06PM -0500, Larry Hall wrote:
> At 01:30 PM 2/22/2004, Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes you wrote:
> >Does anyone know if there is any particular reason that PATH translation
> >ends up with /cygdrive/x/... rather than x:/...?
> 
> Sure.  You get that when you ask 'cygpath' for a POSIX path.  Maybe this is
> not what you meant but I can't help beyond this without some specifics to 
> your question.

Never mind, my brain was disengaged for a moment.  Obviously PATH can't
contain :.

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