German Win98, US Win95 keyboard --> no ;'` keys in Bash

German Win98, US Win95 keyboard --> no ;'` keys in Bash

[Hans-Bernhard Broeker]

An observation I made with Cygwin Bash from 20b1, and which still seems
unfixed with the most recent builds (downloaded yesterday):

None of these keys yields any reaction at the Bash prompt:
' ; ' (i.e. quote, backquote and semicolon)

Neither do their shifted variants. Not even if I type it twice, or
followed by a <Space> to eliminate possible deadkey behaviour of quotes.
Needless to say this makes this version of Bash pretty unusable for any
interactive work.

Note that even though I'm German, and my Windows 98 OS is, too, I am
using a *US* keyboard (typing C code on a German one is just unbearable)
with "Win95 keys". I also disabled the whole Codepage stuff in
config.sys and autoexec.bat (no mode con codepage prepare, no
display.sys).

Any ideas what to look up next, or how to fix this?

--  
Hans-Bernhard Broeker (broeker@physik.rwth-aachen.de)
Even if all the snow were burnt, ashes would remain.

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Re: German Win98, US Win95 keyboard --> no ;'` keys in Bash

[Larry Hall (RFK Partners, Inc)]

At 01:29 PM 9/20/2001, Hans-Bernhard Broeker wrote:
>An observation I made with Cygwin Bash from 20b1, and which still seems
>unfixed with the most recent builds (downloaded yesterday):
>
>None of these keys yields any reaction at the Bash prompt:
>' ; ' (i.e. quote, backquote and semicolon)
>
>Neither do their shifted variants. Not even if I type it twice, or
>followed by a <Space> to eliminate possible deadkey behaviour of quotes.
>Needless to say this makes this version of Bash pretty unusable for any
>interactive work.
>
>Note that even though I'm German, and my Windows 98 OS is, too, I am
>using a *US* keyboard (typing C code on a German one is just unbearable)
>with "Win95 keys". I also disabled the whole Codepage stuff in
>config.sys and autoexec.bat (no mode con codepage prepare, no
>display.sys).
>
>Any ideas what to look up next, or how to fix this?



You can check the email archives on this.  I believe it was Jason
Tishler (sorry Jason if I'm remembering this wrong) that did some work 
relative to the interpretation of keys in different environments.  I 
expect you'll find some interesting, if not helpful, information from some 
of the posts surrounding this work.  You should also check the FAQ and User 
Guide to make sure you're not overlooking any information that might be 
helpful.  This is always worthwhile no matter what the problem.



Larry Hall                              lhall@rfk.com
RFK Partners, Inc.                      http://www.rfk.com
118 Washington Street                   (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office
Holliston, MA 01746                     (508) 893-9889 - FAX


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Re: German Win98, US Win95 keyboard --> no ;'` keys in Bash

[David Starks-Browning]

On Thursday 20 Sep 01, Larry Hall (RFK Partners, Inc) writes:
> At 01:29 PM 9/20/2001, Hans-Bernhard Broeker wrote:
> >...
> >
> >Any ideas what to look up next, or how to fix this?
> 
> ...  You should also check the FAQ and User Guide to make sure
> you're not overlooking any information that might be helpful.  This
> is always worthwhile no matter what the problem.

Specifically, there is an entry under "Known Problems in the Latest
Net Release" about the pipe '|' key not working.  This is undoubtedly
your problem too.

Regards,
David


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Re: German Win98, US Win95 keyboard --> no ;'` keys in Bash

[Jason Tiller]

Hi, Larry and Hans-Bernhard, :)

On Thu, 20 Sep 2001, Larry Hall (RFK Partners, Inc) wrote:

> At 01:29 PM 9/20/2001, Hans-Bernhard Broeker wrote:

> >None of these keys yields any reaction at the Bash prompt:
> >' ; ' (i.e. quote, backquote and semicolon)
> >...
> >Any ideas what to look up next, or how to fix this?

> You can check the email archives on this.  I believe it was Jason
> Tishler (sorry Jason if I'm remembering this wrong) that did some
> work relative to the interpretation of keys in different
> environments.

Ah, quite a distinction to be mistaken for the honorable Tischler! :)
But no, the initial whining and subsequent hack was done by me,
though I can see how you might be mistaken.

Hans-Bernhard, I'd suggest looking back through the mailing list
archives for "AltGr", which is how this whole fiasco started.  I
wanted to use the right Alt key (AltGr) as META because when using the
Emacs editing mode in bash, I found my left hand getting very sore due
to *always* having to press the left Alt key for META.  Since Emacs
supported using the right Alt key as META, why not bash?

I originally created a patch to cause AltGr either act as RightAlt or
META via an option in the CYGWIN environment variable.  That was
rejected, so Corinna showed me how to determined the loaded keyboard's
language and use that to determine what AltGr should do.

For English language keyboards, AltGr became META, since we U.S. types
don't often have cause to type accented characters and thus don't use
AltGr often.  If the primary language was anything other than English
(an ID of 0x0409, as I recall), right Alt was not translated into META
and passed unchanged through the Cygwin console handler.  This
algorithm was implemented in 1.3.2.

This didn't work very well because lots of people, like you, set their
keyboard language to English but have their keyboard *layout* set to
something else (German, French, etc.).  Marius Gedman then stepped in
to devise a more advanced heuristic for making the right Alt/META
determination.  That algorithm was implemented in 1.3.3.

It sounds like even Marius' more detailed test isn't working.  At this
point I'm not sure what else can be done.  There were other
suggestions at the time, but I think Marius' was agreed to be the best
tactic.  If this is also failing, I don't know if anything's left but
to rip it out entirely (::sigh:: my poor wrists!), go back to the
CYGWIN variable option, or for me to turn my life upside-down and
switch over to vi. ;-D

I would prefer the middle ground, but were Chris to to nix that, I
guess the next DLL release would always assign right Alt to AltGr and
I'd have to patch each release to get my desired META functionality.

---Jason Tiller
jtiller@sjm.com


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Re: German Win98, US Win95 keyboard --> no ;'` keys in Bash

[Larry Hall (RFK Partners, Inc)]

At 04:08 PM 9/20/2001, Jason Tiller wrote:
>Hi, Larry and Hans-Bernhard, :)
>
>On Thu, 20 Sep 2001, Larry Hall (RFK Partners, Inc) wrote:
>
> > At 01:29 PM 9/20/2001, Hans-Bernhard Broeker wrote:
>
> > >None of these keys yields any reaction at the Bash prompt:
> > >' ; ' (i.e. quote, backquote and semicolon)
> > >...
> > >Any ideas what to look up next, or how to fix this?
>
> > You can check the email archives on this.  I believe it was Jason
> > Tishler (sorry Jason if I'm remembering this wrong) that did some
> > work relative to the interpretation of keys in different
> > environments.
>
>Ah, quite a distinction to be mistaken for the honorable Tischler! :)


Thanks Jason (Tiller) for setting my poor memory (and improper spelling)
straight! :-)

Nice summary of events too!


Larry Hall                              lhall@rfk.com
RFK Partners, Inc.                      http://www.rfk.com
118 Washington Street                   (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office
Holliston, MA 01746                     (508) 893-9889 - FAX


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Re: German Win98, US Win95 keyboard --> no ;'` keys in Bash

[Jason Tiller]

Hi, Larry, :/

On Thu, 20 Sep 2001, Larry Hall (RFK Partners, Inc) wrote:
> At 04:08 PM 9/20/2001, Jason Tiller wrote:
> >On Thu, 20 Sep 2001, Larry Hall (RFK Partners, Inc) wrote:
> > > At 01:29 PM 9/20/2001, Hans-Bernhard Broeker wrote:
> >
> > > >None of these keys yields any reaction at the Bash prompt:
> > > >' ; ' (i.e. quote, backquote and semicolon)
> > > >...
> > > >Any ideas what to look up next, or how to fix this?
> >
> > > You can check the email archives on this.  I believe it was Jason
> > > Tishler (sorry Jason if I'm remembering this wrong) that did some
> > > work relative to the interpretation of keys in different
> > > environments.
> >
> >Ah, quite a distinction to be mistaken for the honorable Tischler! :)

> Thanks Jason (Tiller) for setting my poor memory (and improper
> spelling) straight! :-)

::sigh:: I should know better than to try to get fancy. ;)  You were
right the first time!  I attribute it to replying to a German and thus
getting into the "sch" mode.

Thanks for the kind words, and I hope we have a final resolution from
Chris/Corinna soon.

Translation: Should there be a [no]right_alt_meta CYGWIN= option?

If so, I would be glad to submit a patch with that functionality (I
think I have it lying around here somewhere...).

If not, should the keyboard language vs. META translation code be
removed (i.e. revert to 1.1.8 keystroke interpreter)?  I could patch
that as well.

---Jason Tiller
jtiller@sjm.com


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Re: German Win98, US Win95 keyboard --> no ;'` keys in Bash

[Christopher Faylor]

On Thu, Sep 20, 2001 at 01:39:13PM -0700, Jason Tiller wrote:
>On Thu, 20 Sep 2001, Larry Hall (RFK Partners, Inc) wrote:
>> At 04:08 PM 9/20/2001, Jason Tiller wrote:
>> >On Thu, 20 Sep 2001, Larry Hall (RFK Partners, Inc) wrote:
>> > > At 01:29 PM 9/20/2001, Hans-Bernhard Broeker wrote:
>> >
>> > > >None of these keys yields any reaction at the Bash prompt:
>> > > >' ; ' (i.e. quote, backquote and semicolon)
>> > > >...
>> > > >Any ideas what to look up next, or how to fix this?
>> >
>> > > You can check the email archives on this.  I believe it was Jason
>> > > Tishler (sorry Jason if I'm remembering this wrong) that did some
>> > > work relative to the interpretation of keys in different
>> > > environments.
>> >
>> >Ah, quite a distinction to be mistaken for the honorable Tischler! :)
>
>> Thanks Jason (Tiller) for setting my poor memory (and improper
>> spelling) straight! :-)
>
>::sigh:: I should know better than to try to get fancy. ;)  You were
>right the first time!  I attribute it to replying to a German and thus
>getting into the "sch" mode.
>
>Thanks for the kind words, and I hope we have a final resolution from
>Chris/Corinna soon.
>
>Translation: Should there be a [no]right_alt_meta CYGWIN= option?
>
>If so, I would be glad to submit a patch with that functionality (I
>think I have it lying around here somewhere...).
>
>If not, should the keyboard language vs. META translation code be
>removed (i.e. revert to 1.1.8 keystroke interpreter)?  I could patch
>that as well.

Jason,
I thought that you had things working to your satisfaction with the
current code in Cygwin.

If the current situation does work for some people I don't see any
reason to rip it out.  I would like to figure out why it doesn't work
for other people though.

How many failing bug reports have we had?  I haven't really been
paying attention.  Has anyone tried to figure out why things aren't
working right?

cgf

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Re: German Win98, US Win95 keyboard --> no ;'` keys in Bash

[Jason Tiller]

Hi, Chris, :)

On Thu, 20 Sep 2001, Christopher Faylor wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 20, 2001 at 01:39:13PM -0700, Jason Tiller wrote:
> >> > > At 01:29 PM 9/20/2001, Hans-Bernhard Broeker wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > >None of these keys yields any reaction at the Bash prompt:
> >> > > >' ; ' (i.e. quote, backquote and semicolon)
> >> > > >...
> >> > > >Any ideas what to look up next, or how to fix this?

> >Thanks for the kind words, and I hope we have a final resolution from
> >Chris/Corinna soon.
> >
> >Translation: Should there be a [no]right_alt_meta CYGWIN= option?
> >
> >If so, I would be glad to submit a patch with that functionality (I
> >think I have it lying around here somewhere...).
> >
> >If not, should the keyboard language vs. META translation code be
> >removed (i.e. revert to 1.1.8 keystroke interpreter)?  I could patch
> >that as well.

> I thought that you had things working to your satisfaction with the
> current code in Cygwin.

*I'm* satisfied. :)  My primary language and layout are both English,
so it works for me.

> How many failing bug reports have we had?

Two or three.  I'm afraid, however, that we will begin to see more,
especially from users whose keyboard primary language is English but
whose keyboard layout is non-English (international programmers, most
likely).

Marius was the perfect programmer to handle this because he's used to
working with an international keyboard.  I tried some ad-hoc testing
here and was befuddled pretty quickly in trying to get around some of
the "foreign" layouts.

> Has anyone tried to figure out why things aren't working right?

Not since 1.3.3 came out with Marius' enhanced META-translator.  I'm
hoping he's still lurking and can contribute to this discussion...
Please, Marius?

---Jason
jtiller@sjm.com

P.S. - I Cc'ed the M-Man on this one.


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Re: German Win98, US Win95 keyboard --> no ;'` keys in Bash

[Gerrit P. Haase]

Hans-Bernhard Broeker schrieb am 2001-09-20, 19:29:

>An observation I made with Cygwin Bash from 20b1, and which still seems
>unfixed with the most recent builds (downloaded yesterday):
[...]
>Any ideas what to look up next, or how to fix this?

Update to cygwin-1.3.3 plus update every other package.
Wipe your b20 of your harddisk and make a fresh iunstall.


http://www.cygwin.com/setup.exe

Gerrit


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Re: German Win98, US Win95 keyboard --> no ;'` keys in Bash

[Marius Gedminas]

On Thu, Sep 20, 2001 at 02:14:49PM -0700, Jason Tiller wrote:
> > How many failing bug reports have we had?
> 
> Two or three.

Could you provide message-ids, or maybe even links to them on the
archive?  If that's not too much hassle for you.

> I'm afraid, however, that we will begin to see more,
> especially from users whose keyboard primary language is English but
> whose keyboard layout is non-English (international programmers, most
> likely).
> 
> Marius was the perfect programmer to handle this because he's used to
> working with an international keyboard.  I tried some ad-hoc testing
> here and was befuddled pretty quickly in trying to get around some of
> the "foreign" layouts.
> 
> > Has anyone tried to figure out why things aren't working right?
> 
> Not since 1.3.3 came out with Marius' enhanced META-translator.  I'm
> hoping he's still lurking and can contribute to this discussion...
> Please, Marius?

I'm still alive, and I was actually following this thread.  And the
threat of changing the right Alt into AltGr unconditionally might even
make me forget my usual lazyness (hey, Larry Wall said it was one of the
great virtues of programming!) and do something.

However my "enhanced META-translator" is only used on Windows NT/2000,
so it shouldn't have broken anything in this specific case (Win98 + US
keyboard).  And if I understood the original problem report correctly
(not working ' ` ; with US keyboard layout), it has nothing to do with
AltGr at all.

I think the only constructive thing I can suggest at the moment, is to
compile and run the attached program -- it displays raw console keyboard
events Cygwin (and any other Win32 application) gets from the operating
system.

Here's what I get on Win2000 (inside VMware) with 'US English' keyboard
layout by pressing ' ` ; and Esc.

  $ gcc -o conevent conevent.c

  $ ./conevent
  KeyDown (*1) 00DE 0028 ''' U+0027 00000000
  KeyUp   (*1) 00DE 0028 ''' U+0027 00000000
  KeyDown (*1) 00C0 0029 '`' U+0060 00000000
  KeyUp   (*1) 00C0 0029 '`' U+0060 00000000
  KeyDown (*1) 00BA 0027 ';' U+003B 00000000
  KeyUp   (*1) 00BA 0027 ';' U+003B 00000000
  KeyDown (*1) 001B 0001 ' U+001B 00000000
  KeyUp   (*1) 001B 0001 ' U+001B 00000000

# ^^^^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^
# event        keycode   ASCII      shift state
#         repeat    scancode Unicode

Marius Gedminas
-- 
Hoping the problem  magically goes away  by ignoring it is the "microsoft
approach to programming" and should never be allowed.
		-- Linus Torvalds

Re: German Win98, US Win95 keyboard --> no ;'` keys in Bash

[Jason Tiller]

Hi, Marius! :)

Good to hear from you!

On Fri, 21 Sep 2001, Marius Gedminas wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 20, 2001 at 02:14:49PM -0700, Jason Tiller wrote:

> > > How many failing bug reports have we had?

> > Two or three.

> Could you provide message-ids, or maybe even links to them on the
> archive?  If that's not too much hassle for you.

Here they are:

http://sources.redhat.com/ml/cygwin/2001-09/msg00857.html
http://sources.redhat.com/ml/cygwin/2001-09/msg01181.html
http://sources.redhat.com/ml/cygwin/2001-09/msg01241.html

> I'm still alive, and I was actually following this thread.  And the
> threat of changing the right Alt into AltGr unconditionally might
> even make me forget my usual lazyness (hey, Larry Wall said it was
> one of the great virtues of programming!) and do something.

Hey, lazy = do it once and then forget about it.  I'm all for that!


> However my "enhanced META-translator" is only used on Windows
> NT/2000, so it shouldn't have broken anything in this specific case
> (Win98 + US keyboard).

Ah.  I knew that Win(9[58]|ME) didn't have all of the facilities that
NT did and I recall that you had a separate method for Win9x.  I
hadn't yet looked at the code to see that you only changed the
algorithm for NT/2K.

Hmm.  Well, the problem is that I don't believe it worked for Win9x in
the first place!  At least, not for those with English language but
international layout keyboards.

> And if I understood the original problem report correctly (not
> working ' ` ; with US keyboard layout), it has nothing to do with
> AltGr at all.

The first report I see (in msg00857) is from an Italian user.

The second report (msg01181) is from a UK user who doesn't explicitly
state what his keyboard settings are.

The third report (Hans-Bernhard's, msg01241) is the most confusing -
a US keyboard layout with a German OS.

> I think the only constructive thing I can suggest at the moment, is
> to compile and run the attached program -- it displays raw console
> keyboard events Cygwin (and any other Win32 application) gets from
> the operating system.

This is very handy.  Thanks!  That will at least give the people who
are having problems a chance to delve into what's going on for them.

I hope we can get reports that would point in a direction to fix this
once and for all.  Thank you, Marius!!

---Jason
jtiller@sjm.com


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Re: German Win98, US Win95 keyboard --> no ;'` keys in Bash

[Gerrit P. Haase]

Marius Gedminas schrieb am 2001-09-21, 0:58:

[...]
>Here's what I get on Win2000 (inside VMware) with 'US English' keyboard
>layout by pressing ' ` ; and Esc.
>
>  $ gcc -o conevent conevent.c

For me this works not in a bash shell window...

I have compiled it with Borland compiler, then it works if I double-click
it from explorer or run it in cmd.exe without bash.

If I compile it with 'gcc -mno-cygwin' i can run it from explorer with a
double-click too, but it exits if I hit <esc>.

Should I try a build with MSVC too:)

but: gcc -o kc keycheck.c
doesn't work.

Gerrit


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Re: German Win98, US Win95 keyboard --> no ;'` keys in Bash

[Corinna Vinschen]

On Fri, Sep 21, 2001 at 02:47:28AM +0200, Gerrit P. Haase wrote:
> Marius Gedminas schrieb am 2001-09-21, 0:58:
> 
> [...]
> >Here's what I get on Win2000 (inside VMware) with 'US English' keyboard
> >layout by pressing ' ` ; and Esc.
> >
> >  $ gcc -o conevent conevent.c
> 
> For me this works not in a bash shell window...
> 
> I have compiled it with Borland compiler, then it works if I double-click
> it from explorer or run it in cmd.exe without bash.
> 
> If I compile it with 'gcc -mno-cygwin' i can run it from explorer with a
> double-click too, but it exits if I hit <esc>.
> 
> Should I try a build with MSVC too:)
> 
> but: gcc -o kc keycheck.c
> doesn't work.
> 
> Gerrit

We already have such a keyscan application in the Cygwin distro:

	cygcheck -k

Corinna

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RE: German Win98, US Win95 keyboard --> no ;'` keys in Bash

[Ronald Landheer]

Hello all (Larry, Jason, Marius),

I've been following the thread a bit - though my interest is only out of 
curiosity, as I have an American keyboard with an American Win98 "OS", 
but I thought I might be able to help out: I haven't seen any French 
keyboard/OS combinations here yet, and I have one standing next to me 
(AZERTY in stead of QWERTY - like German is QWERTZ in stead of QWERTY). 
I definatly can't program on the thing (I tie my fingers in knots if I 
try) but if you want, I can do some (beta-)testting (Quick brown fox 
jumps over the lazy dog-kinda thing) on it. The system is clean - it 
doesn't even have a compiler (of any kind) on it, so it might be a nic 
test-case.
As I don't want to get knee-deep into this problem (I have problems 
enough as is) thiss is all the help I have to offer (though, when 
testing, if I find something wrong and can fix it, I will, ofcourse).

Greetz!

Ronald


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RE: German Win98, US Win95 keyboard --> no ;'` keys in Bash

[Ronald Landheer]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1633 bytes --]

Hello Marius,

> I think the only constructive thing I can suggest at the moment, is to
> compile and run the attached program -- it displays raw console
> keyboard events Cygwin (and any other Win32 application) gets from the
> operating system.
I've compiled and run the program on the clean azerty system I have here 
(from a floppy w/ the cygwin dll on it). It works like a charm, 
including the AltGr button. The only thing is doesn't get is the ê and ë 
like things that French keyboard can automagically handle, but I'm 
assuming that's a codepage problem (though I'm not 100% sure).

The output of trying to type ë (without using the ASCII code as I'm used 
to on my QWERTY machine) is like this:
-- BEGIN SCREEN SNIPPET --
KeyDown (*1) 0010 002A ' ' U+0000 00000030  <-- pressing shift
KeyUp   (*1) 0000 007A ' ' U+0000 00000030  <-- ??
KeyUp   (*1) 0000 007A ' ' U+0000 00000030  <-- ??
KeyDown (*1) 00DD 001A ' ' U+0000 00000030  <-- pressing ë (w/o e)
KeyUp   (*1) 00DD 001A ' ' U+0000 00000030  <-- releasing everything
KeyUp   (*1) 0010 002A ' ' U+0000 00000020
KeyDown (*1) 0045 0012 '%' U+C589 00000020  <-- pressing e
KeyUp   (*1) 0045 0012 'e' U+0065 00000020  <-- releasing e
--- END SCREEN SNIPPET ---
(I don't have the ^/ë(w/o e) button on my QWERTY keyboard w/ which I'm 
typing this, ofcourse)

If you want more info, just mail - I'm in a helpful mood today :)

Greetz!

Ronald


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RE: German Win98, US Win95 keyboard --> no ;'` keys in Bash

[Ronald Landheer]

Hi Marius /et al./

Following up in my last report:

Oops :)
It seems function keys don't work - and neither does escape.

Greetz!

Ronald


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Re: German Win98, US Win95 keyboard --> no ;'` keys in Bash

[Hans-Bernhard Broeker]

On Thu, 20 Sep 2001, David Starks-Browning wrote:

> On Thursday 20 Sep 01, Larry Hall (RFK Partners, Inc) writes:
> > At 01:29 PM 9/20/2001, Hans-Bernhard Broeker wrote:
> > >...
> > >
> > >Any ideas what to look up next, or how to fix this?
> > 
> > ...  You should also check the FAQ and User Guide to make sure
> > you're not overlooking any information that might be helpful.  This
> > is always worthwhile no matter what the problem.
> 
> Specifically, there is an entry under "Known Problems in the Latest
> Net Release" about the pipe '|' key not working.  This is undoubtedly
> your problem too.

I somewhat doubt that: As I told, I'm using a US-layout keyboard in its
native US mapping. The only thing non-US in my setup is the Language
setting (i.e. i18n stuff), and the fact that my Win98 is a German edition.

And it's not the pipe '|' I was having problem with. It's other keys.

Anyway: the problem mostly went away once I rebooted the machine (the next
day, only, as the Cygwin setup didn't think I had to reboot).  It
reappeared in a particular session, a bit later, but I didn't find any
particular series of actions that would reproduce it.

Maybe the problem really is that I didn't uninstall my b20.1 installation
first.  I can't: the entry in the uninstall menu doesn't exist. 

-- 
Hans-Bernhard Broeker (broeker@physik.rwth-aachen.de)
Even if all the snow were burnt, ashes would remain.


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Re: German Win98, US Win95 keyboard --> no ;'` keys in Bash

[Hans-Bernhard Broeker]

On Thu, 20 Sep 2001, Gerrit P. Haase wrote:

> Hans-Bernhard Broeker schrieb am 2001-09-20, 19:29:
> 
> >An observation I made with Cygwin Bash from 20b1, and which still seems
> >unfixed with the most recent builds (downloaded yesterday):
> [...]
> >Any ideas what to look up next, or how to fix this?
> 
> Update to cygwin-1.3.3 plus update every other package.

I don't think so. Everything is already as new as it gets: I had only
downloaded all those packages from the main German mirror site the day
before I wrote that mail, i.e. last week. Cygwin already is 1.3.3, e.g.

-- 
Hans-Bernhard Broeker (broeker@physik.rwth-aachen.de)
Even if all the snow were burnt, ashes would remain.


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Re: German Win98, US Win95 keyboard --> no ;'` keys in Bash

[Hans-Bernhard Broeker]

On Thu, 20 Sep 2001, Larry Hall (RFK Partners, Inc) wrote:

> You can check the email archives on this.  I believe it was Jason
> Tishler (sorry Jason if I'm remembering this wrong) that did some work 
> relative to the interpretation of keys in different environments.  

[Jason didn't keep me in the Cc:, so I only found his reply via mailing
list search...]

Jason:  Please note that this really shouldn't have any direct connection
to that AltGr issue.  Neither my keyboard nor my usual keyboard layout
does have an AltGr key.  The problem I observed happened without any
particular involvement of any of the Alt or other special keys.  

It's a plain US keyboard (with "Windows keys), and the default keyboard
layout is "English (US)", which is an exact 1:1 mapping of what's written
onto the keycaps. I.e. instead of the case you had to handle:

--- quote from Jason's mail to cygwin@cygwin.com:
This didn't work very well because lots of people, like you, set their
keyboard language to English but have their keyboard *layout* set to
something else (German, French, etc.).  
--- quote end

I'm facing a somewhat opposite situation: keyboard language and keyboard
are both plain English(US).  It's only the system language (what you
control in the 'language' controller of the Win9x system settings) that is
German, and the alternative keyboard layout: I have the internationalizer
button in the Taskbar running, allowing me to switch from this US mapping
to a German one on demand, on a per-application basis.

But, as I already mentioned in another mail, the bulk of this problem
seems gone since I rebooted the machine.  Since then it only reappeared
once, in circumstances I didn't manage to reproduce yet.  

FYI: A quick check done with 'cygcheck -k', when the problem was there,
showed that the nonfunctional keys reported no VK at all (i.e. VK=0),
if memory serves me well. Next time it happens, I'll write it all down
and mail again.

-- 
Hans-Bernhard Broeker (broeker@physik.rwth-aachen.de)
Even if all the snow were burnt, ashes would remain.


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Re: German Win98, US Win95 keyboard --> no ;'` keys in Bash

[Larry Hall (RFK Partners, Inc)]

At 07:44 AM 9/24/2001, Hans-Bernhard Broeker wrote:
>Maybe the problem really is that I didn't uninstall my b20.1 installation
>first.  I can't: the entry in the uninstall menu doesn't exist. 

Then just remove the directory where you installed B20.1.  That's safe.
Make sure you don't have an old cygwin*.dll hanging around either.  
cygcheck -s -r -v will tell you if this is the case.


Larry Hall                              lhall@rfk.com
RFK Partners, Inc.                      http://www.rfk.com
118 Washington Street                   (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office
Holliston, MA 01746                     (508) 893-9889 - FAX


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Re: German Win98, US Win95 keyboard --> no ;'` keys in Bash

[Gerrit P. Haase]

> Corinna Vinschen schrieb am 2001-09-21 10:37:

>> but: gcc -o kc keycheck.c
>> doesn't work.
>> 
>> Gerrit
>
>We already have such a keyscan application in the Cygwin distro:
>
> cygcheck -k

Every visible key works for me on NT4, german version, us-keyboard, w/wo shift,
see output below script.

#!/usr/bin/perl

$USAGE = '
USAGE: ascii [options] [string]
SYNOPSIS: Print ASCII-CODE each char of input or the whole table.
AUTHOR: GPL(C) Mohsin Ahmed, http://www.cs.albany.edu/~mosh
OPTIONS string       Show  string in hex, oct, decimal.
        -table X Y   Print the table from X..Y, or 0..255.
        -oct         Octal table \000  \177.
        -hex         Hex   table \x00  \x7f.
        -xcolor      Show ESC sequences for color xterm.
WAS:      perl -e \'printf "%#x\n", ord(shift)\' "^]"
';

$TABLE_OCT = '
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
|000 nul|001 soh|002 stx|003 etx|004 eot|005 enq|006 ack|007 bel|
|010 bs |011 ht |012 nl |013 vt |014 np |015 cr |016 so |017 si |
|020 dle|021 dc1|022 dc2|023 dc3|024 dc4|025 nak|026 syn|027 etb|
|030 can|031 em |032 sub|033 esc|034 fs |035 gs |036 rs |037 us |
|040 sp |041  ! |042  " |043  # |044  $ |045  % |046  & |047  \' |
|050  ( |051  ) |052  * |053  + |054  , |055  - |056  . |057  / |
|060  0 |061  1 |062  2 |063  3 |064  4 |065  5 |066  6 |067  7 |
|070  8 |071  9 |072  : |073  ; |074  < |075  = |076  > |077  ? |
|100  @ |101  A |102  B |103  C |104  D |105  E |106  F |107  G |
|110  H |111  I |112  J |113  K |114  L |115  M |116  N |117  O |
|120  P |121  Q |122  R |123  S |124  T |125  U |126  V |127  W |
|130  X |131  Y |132  Z |133  [ |134  \ |135  ] |136  ^ |137  _ |
|140  ` |141  a |142  b |143  c |144  d |145  e |146  f |147  g |
|150  h |151  i |152  j |153  k |154  l |155  m |156  n |157  o |
|160  p |161  q |162  r |163  s |164  t |165  u |166  v |167  w |
|170  x |171  y |172  z |173  { |174  | |175  } |176  ~ |177 del|
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
';

$TABLE_HEX = '
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
| 00 nul| 01 soh| 02 stx| 03 etx| 04 eot| 05 enq| 06 ack| 07 bel|
| 08 bs | 09 ht | 0a nl | 0b vt | 0c np | 0d cr | 0e so | 0f si |
| 10 dle| 11 dc1| 12 dc2| 13 dc3| 14 dc4| 15 nak| 16 syn| 17 etb|
| 18 can| 19 em | 1a sub| 1b esc| 1c fs | 1d gs | 1e rs | 1f us |
| 20 sp | 21  ! | 22  " | 23  # | 24  $ | 25  % | 26  & | 27  \' |
| 28  ( | 29  ) | 2a  * | 2b  + | 2c  , | 2d  - | 2e  . | 2f  / |
| 30  0 | 31  1 | 32  2 | 33  3 | 34  4 | 35  5 | 36  6 | 37  7 |
| 38  8 | 39  9 | 3a  : | 3b  ; | 3c  < | 3d  = | 3e  > | 3f  ? |
| 40  @ | 41  A | 42  B | 43  C | 44  D | 45  E | 46  F | 47  G |
| 48  H | 49  I | 4a  J | 4b  K | 4c  L | 4d  M | 4e  N | 4f  O |
| 50  P | 51  Q | 52  R | 53  S | 54  T | 55  U | 56  V | 57  W |
| 58  X | 59  Y | 5a  Z | 5b  [ | 5c  \ | 5d  ] | 5e  ^ | 5f  _ |
| 60  ` | 61  a | 62  b | 63  c | 64  d | 65  e | 66  f | 67  g |
| 68  h | 69  i | 6a  j | 6b  k | 6c  l | 6d  m | 6e  n | 6f  o |
| 70  p | 71  q | 72  r | 73  s | 74  t | 75  u | 76  v | 77  w |
| 78  x | 79  y | 7a  z | 7b  { | 7c  | | 7d  } | 7e  ~ | 7f del|
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
';

$charname{    0 } = 'NUL';
$charname{    7 } = 'BEL';
$charname{    8 } = 'BS ';
$charname{    9 } = 'TAB';
$charname{   10 } = 'LF ';
$charname{   11 } = 'VT ';
$charname{   12 } = 'FF ';
$charname{   13 } = 'CR ';
$charname{   27 } = 'ESC';
$charname{   32 } = 'SPC';
$charname{  127 } = 'DEL';


while( $_ = $ARGV[0], /^-/ ){
    shift; m/^--$/ && last;
    if(     m/^-v/   ){ $verbose=1;
    }elsif( m/^-oct/ ){ print $TABLE_OCT; exit;
    }elsif( m/^-hex/ ){ print $TABLE_HEX; exit;
    }elsif( m/^-\?/  ){ print $USAGE;     exit;
    }elsif( m/^-xcolor/  ){
        # print ESC sequences for color xterm.
        for($i=0;$i<110;$i++){
            printf("\e[%03dm\\e[%3dm\e[0m\e[39m\e[49m,", $i, $i);
            print "\n" if $i % 8 == 0;
        }
        print "\nNormal Foreground: \\e[39m, Normal Background \\e[49m.\n";
        exit;
    }elsif( m/^-table/    ){ $opt  = 'table';
                             $from = shift || 0;
                             $to   = shift || 255;
        for $i ($from .. $to ){
            $c = $i;
            printf("%3d 0x%-3x \\0%-3o %3s  %c |  ",
                $i,     $i,     $i, $c, $i,
                $charname{ $i } || '-' );
            print "\n" unless $i % 2;
        }
        exit;
    }else{
        die "Invalid option '$_', see -? for help\n";
    }
}

my $string = shift
    or die $USAGE;

foreach $c (split(//,$string))
{
    my $i = ord($c);
    printf("ascii:%3s = dec: %3d, oct: %#o, hex: %#x;\n",
                    $c,        $i,       $i,       $i );
}

$ ascii.pl '`~1!2@3#4$5%6^7&8*9(0)-_=+qQwWeErRtTyYuUiIoOpP[{]}\|aAsSdDfFgGhHjJkKlL;:"zZxXcCvVbBnNmM,<.>/?'
ascii:  ` = dec:  96, oct: 0140, hex: 0x60;
ascii:  ~ = dec: 126, oct: 0176, hex: 0x7e;
ascii:  1 = dec:  49, oct: 061, hex: 0x31;
ascii:  ! = dec:  33, oct: 041, hex: 0x21;
ascii:  2 = dec:  50, oct: 062, hex: 0x32;
ascii:  @ = dec:  64, oct: 0100, hex: 0x40;
ascii:  3 = dec:  51, oct: 063, hex: 0x33;
ascii:  # = dec:  35, oct: 043, hex: 0x23;
ascii:  4 = dec:  52, oct: 064, hex: 0x34;
ascii:  $ = dec:  36, oct: 044, hex: 0x24;
ascii:  5 = dec:  53, oct: 065, hex: 0x35;
ascii:  % = dec:  37, oct: 045, hex: 0x25;
ascii:  6 = dec:  54, oct: 066, hex: 0x36;
ascii:  ^ = dec:  94, oct: 0136, hex: 0x5e;
ascii:  7 = dec:  55, oct: 067, hex: 0x37;
ascii:  & = dec:  38, oct: 046, hex: 0x26;
ascii:  8 = dec:  56, oct: 070, hex: 0x38;
ascii:  * = dec:  42, oct: 052, hex: 0x2a;
ascii:  9 = dec:  57, oct: 071, hex: 0x39;
ascii:  ( = dec:  40, oct: 050, hex: 0x28;
ascii:  0 = dec:  48, oct: 060, hex: 0x30;
ascii:  ) = dec:  41, oct: 051, hex: 0x29;
ascii:  - = dec:  45, oct: 055, hex: 0x2d;
ascii:  _ = dec:  95, oct: 0137, hex: 0x5f;
ascii:  = = dec:  61, oct: 075, hex: 0x3d;
ascii:  + = dec:  43, oct: 053, hex: 0x2b;
ascii:  q = dec: 113, oct: 0161, hex: 0x71;
ascii:  Q = dec:  81, oct: 0121, hex: 0x51;
ascii:  w = dec: 119, oct: 0167, hex: 0x77;
ascii:  W = dec:  87, oct: 0127, hex: 0x57;
ascii:  e = dec: 101, oct: 0145, hex: 0x65;
ascii:  E = dec:  69, oct: 0105, hex: 0x45;
ascii:  r = dec: 114, oct: 0162, hex: 0x72;
ascii:  R = dec:  82, oct: 0122, hex: 0x52;
ascii:  t = dec: 116, oct: 0164, hex: 0x74;
ascii:  T = dec:  84, oct: 0124, hex: 0x54;
ascii:  y = dec: 121, oct: 0171, hex: 0x79;
ascii:  Y = dec:  89, oct: 0131, hex: 0x59;
ascii:  u = dec: 117, oct: 0165, hex: 0x75;
ascii:  U = dec:  85, oct: 0125, hex: 0x55;
ascii:  i = dec: 105, oct: 0151, hex: 0x69;
ascii:  I = dec:  73, oct: 0111, hex: 0x49;
ascii:  o = dec: 111, oct: 0157, hex: 0x6f;
ascii:  O = dec:  79, oct: 0117, hex: 0x4f;
ascii:  p = dec: 112, oct: 0160, hex: 0x70;
ascii:  P = dec:  80, oct: 0120, hex: 0x50;
ascii:  [ = dec:  91, oct: 0133, hex: 0x5b;
ascii:  { = dec: 123, oct: 0173, hex: 0x7b;
ascii:  ] = dec:  93, oct: 0135, hex: 0x5d;
ascii:  } = dec: 125, oct: 0175, hex: 0x7d;
ascii:  \ = dec:  92, oct: 0134, hex: 0x5c;
ascii:  | = dec: 124, oct: 0174, hex: 0x7c;
ascii:  a = dec:  97, oct: 0141, hex: 0x61;
ascii:  A = dec:  65, oct: 0101, hex: 0x41;
ascii:  s = dec: 115, oct: 0163, hex: 0x73;
ascii:  S = dec:  83, oct: 0123, hex: 0x53;
ascii:  d = dec: 100, oct: 0144, hex: 0x64;
ascii:  D = dec:  68, oct: 0104, hex: 0x44;
ascii:  f = dec: 102, oct: 0146, hex: 0x66;
ascii:  F = dec:  70, oct: 0106, hex: 0x46;
ascii:  g = dec: 103, oct: 0147, hex: 0x67;
ascii:  G = dec:  71, oct: 0107, hex: 0x47;
ascii:  h = dec: 104, oct: 0150, hex: 0x68;
ascii:  H = dec:  72, oct: 0110, hex: 0x48;
ascii:  j = dec: 106, oct: 0152, hex: 0x6a;
ascii:  J = dec:  74, oct: 0112, hex: 0x4a;
ascii:  k = dec: 107, oct: 0153, hex: 0x6b;
ascii:  K = dec:  75, oct: 0113, hex: 0x4b;
ascii:  l = dec: 108, oct: 0154, hex: 0x6c;
ascii:  L = dec:  76, oct: 0114, hex: 0x4c;
ascii:  ; = dec:  59, oct: 073, hex: 0x3b;
ascii:  : = dec:  58, oct: 072, hex: 0x3a;
ascii:  " = dec:  34, oct: 042, hex: 0x22;
ascii:  z = dec: 122, oct: 0172, hex: 0x7a;
ascii:  Z = dec:  90, oct: 0132, hex: 0x5a;
ascii:  x = dec: 120, oct: 0170, hex: 0x78;
ascii:  X = dec:  88, oct: 0130, hex: 0x58;
ascii:  c = dec:  99, oct: 0143, hex: 0x63;
ascii:  C = dec:  67, oct: 0103, hex: 0x43;
ascii:  v = dec: 118, oct: 0166, hex: 0x76;
ascii:  V = dec:  86, oct: 0126, hex: 0x56;
ascii:  b = dec:  98, oct: 0142, hex: 0x62;
ascii:  B = dec:  66, oct: 0102, hex: 0x42;
ascii:  n = dec: 110, oct: 0156, hex: 0x6e;
ascii:  N = dec:  78, oct: 0116, hex: 0x4e;
ascii:  m = dec: 109, oct: 0155, hex: 0x6d;
ascii:  M = dec:  77, oct: 0115, hex: 0x4d;
ascii:  , = dec:  44, oct: 054, hex: 0x2c;
ascii:  < = dec:  60, oct: 074, hex: 0x3c;
ascii:  . = dec:  46, oct: 056, hex: 0x2e;
ascii:  > = dec:  62, oct: 076, hex: 0x3e;
ascii:  / = dec:  47, oct: 057, hex: 0x2f;
ascii:  ? = dec:  63, oct: 077, hex: 0x3f;

#Gerrit


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