Setup window size: a suggestion

Setup window size: a suggestion

[Igor Pechtchanski]

I was searching for something in the list archives, and came upon this old
thread: http://sources.redhat.com/ml/cygwin/2001-11.t/msg00108.html
This seems to indicate that the setup window size was once larger than
640x480 (but still fixed, I assume).  All of the (relatively) recent setup
window size discussions resulted in something like "it would be too hard
to make the setup window resizeable".

So, here's a suggestion: include either a command-line option, or another
set of radio buttons or a select box in setup that would let people select
from pre-defined window sizes.  Granted, this is a hack, and not as
flexible as allowing resizing, but it will do for most people who
requested resizing, and eliminates the problem with having to re-compute
the positions of controls on resize.

This doesn't seem too hard to implement...  Or am I missing something?
Comments?
	Igor
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RE: Setup window size: a suggestion

[Gary R. Van Sickle]

> I was searching for something in the list archives, and came upon this old
> thread: http://sources.redhat.com/ml/cygwin/2001-11.t/msg00108.html
> This seems to indicate that the setup window size was once larger than
> 640x480 (but still fixed, I assume).

Each page was its own separate dialog box, and hence had its own size.  This
caused a number of other problems which the current property sheet-based UI
solves (z-order madness, window state non-persistence, etc).

>  All of the (relatively) recent setup
> window size discussions resulted in something like "it would be too hard
> to make the setup window resizeable".
>

Not "too hard", but certainly "way harder than it needs to be".  I worked on
this last night in fact; too bad I wasn't loaded, or I'd probably have this
working by now ;-).

> So, here's a suggestion: include either a command-line option, or another
> set of radio buttons or a select box in setup that would let people select
> from pre-defined window sizes.  Granted, this is a hack, and not as
> flexible as allowing resizing, but it will do for most people who
> requested resizing, and eliminates the problem with having to re-compute
> the positions of controls on resize.
>
> This doesn't seem too hard to implement...  Or am I missing something?
> Comments?
> 	Igor

You're missing something ;-).  Resizing the window is in fact easy; getting the
"Back/Next/Finish/Cancel" buttons and the separator to cooperate is a collossal
PITA.  Windows property sheets, it is abundantly clear, were never intended to
be resized dynamically or otherwise once all the pages had been added.

So, as a wise man once said, "the impossible will take a little longer".

--
Gary R. Van Sickle
Brewer.  Patriot.


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RE: Setup window size: a suggestion

[Igor Pechtchanski]

On Sun, 8 Sep 2002, Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:

> > I was searching for something in the list archives, and came upon this old
> > thread: http://sources.redhat.com/ml/cygwin/2001-11.t/msg00108.html
> > This seems to indicate that the setup window size was once larger than
> > 640x480 (but still fixed, I assume).
>
> Each page was its own separate dialog box, and hence had its own size.  This
> caused a number of other problems which the current property sheet-based UI
> solves (z-order madness, window state non-persistence, etc).
>
> >  All of the (relatively) recent setup
> > window size discussions resulted in something like "it would be too hard
> > to make the setup window resizeable".
>
> Not "too hard", but certainly "way harder than it needs to be".  I worked on
> this last night in fact; too bad I wasn't loaded, or I'd probably have this
> working by now ;-).
>
> > So, here's a suggestion: include either a command-line option, or another
> > set of radio buttons or a select box in setup that would let people select
> > from pre-defined window sizes.  Granted, this is a hack, and not as
> > flexible as allowing resizing, but it will do for most people who
> > requested resizing, and eliminates the problem with having to re-compute
> > the positions of controls on resize.
> >
> > This doesn't seem too hard to implement...  Or am I missing something?
> > Comments?
> >       Igor
>
> You're missing something ;-).  Resizing the window is in fact easy;
> getting the "Back/Next/Finish/Cancel" buttons and the separator to
> cooperate is a collossal PITA.  Windows property sheets, it is
> abundantly clear, were never intended to be resized dynamically or
> otherwise once all the pages had been added.
>
> So, as a wise man once said, "the impossible will take a little longer".

But isn't that exactly what my suggestion will allow to avoid?  If the
window size is pre-selected (in fact, with a command-line option, you may
even know it before any windows are created), dynamic resizing is not an
issue.  The window will still be non-resizeable, but will have a different
(fixed) size depending on the option.  This could possibly be accomplished
by having multiple property sheet definitions and choosing the correct one
at run-time (I'm not too up-to-date on windows programming, so please
correct me if I'm wrong).
	Igor
-- 
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RE: Setup window size: a suggestion

[Pavel Tsekov]

On Sun, 8 Sep 2002, Igor Pechtchanski wrote:

> > You're missing something ;-).  Resizing the window is in fact easy;
> > getting the "Back/Next/Finish/Cancel" buttons and the separator to
> > cooperate is a collossal PITA.  Windows property sheets, it is
> > abundantly clear, were never intended to be resized dynamically or
> > otherwise once all the pages had been added.
> >
> > So, as a wise man once said, "the impossible will take a little longer".
> 
> But isn't that exactly what my suggestion will allow to avoid?  If the
> window size is pre-selected (in fact, with a command-line option, you may
> even know it before any windows are created), dynamic resizing is not an
> issue.  The window will still be non-resizeable, but will have a different
> (fixed) size depending on the option.  This could possibly be accomplished
> by having multiple property sheet definitions and choosing the correct one
> at run-time (I'm not too up-to-date on windows programming, so please
> correct me if I'm wrong).

The current size of the property sheet pages follows a recommendation from
Microsoft on how a setup wizard should look and feel. As such it should 
look and feel good on most desktops.

As far as I remember the main purpose of resizable pages is to make the
chooser resizable.

Other than that I don't see a reason to have them. And I haven't seen many 
programs implementing resizable dialogs/pages btw.


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RE: Setup window size: a suggestion

[Gary R. Van Sickle]

> On Sun, 8 Sep 2002, Igor Pechtchanski wrote:
>
> > > You're missing something ;-).  Resizing the window is in fact easy;
> > > getting the "Back/Next/Finish/Cancel" buttons and the separator to
> > > cooperate is a collossal PITA.  Windows property sheets, it is
> > > abundantly clear, were never intended to be resized dynamically or
> > > otherwise once all the pages had been added.
> > >
> > > So, as a wise man once said, "the impossible will take a little longer".
> >
> > But isn't that exactly what my suggestion will allow to avoid?  If the
> > window size is pre-selected (in fact, with a command-line option, you may
> > even know it before any windows are created), dynamic resizing is not an
> > issue.  The window will still be non-resizeable, but will have a different
> > (fixed) size depending on the option.  This could possibly be accomplished
> > by having multiple property sheet definitions and choosing the correct one
> > at run-time (I'm not too up-to-date on windows programming, so please
> > correct me if I'm wrong).
>
> The current size of the property sheet pages follows a recommendation from
> Microsoft on how a setup wizard should look and feel. As such it should
> look and feel good on most desktops.
>
> As far as I remember the main purpose of resizable pages is to make the
> chooser resizable.
>
> Other than that I don't see a reason to have them.

Right.  But we definitely need to do something to make the chooser page a bit
less user-hostile.  My current thinking, if I can get it to work of course, is
to have that one page just be bigger, but not to have user-available resizing.

> And I haven't seen many
> programs implementing resizable dialogs/pages btw.
>

I've discovered there's a reason for that. ;-)

--
Gary R. Van Sickle
Brewer.  Patriot.


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RE: Setup window size: a suggestion

[Chris January]

> > > > You're missing something ;-).  Resizing the window is in fact easy;
> > > > getting the "Back/Next/Finish/Cancel" buttons and the separator to
> > > > cooperate is a collossal PITA.  Windows property sheets, it is
> > > > abundantly clear, were never intended to be resized dynamically or
> > > > otherwise once all the pages had been added.
> > > >
> > > > So, as a wise man once said, "the impossible will take a
> little longer".
> > >
> > > But isn't that exactly what my suggestion will allow to avoid?  If the
> > > window size is pre-selected (in fact, with a command-line
> option, you may
> > > even know it before any windows are created), dynamic
> resizing is not an
> > > issue.  The window will still be non-resizeable, but will
> have a different
> > > (fixed) size depending on the option.  This could possibly be
> accomplished
> > > by having multiple property sheet definitions and choosing
> the correct one
> > > at run-time (I'm not too up-to-date on windows programming, so please
> > > correct me if I'm wrong).
> >
> > The current size of the property sheet pages follows a
> recommendation from
> > Microsoft on how a setup wizard should look and feel. As such it should
> > look and feel good on most desktops.
> >
> > As far as I remember the main purpose of resizable pages is to make the
> > chooser resizable.
> >
> > Other than that I don't see a reason to have them.
>
> Right.  But we definitely need to do something to make the
> chooser page a bit
> less user-hostile.  My current thinking, if I can get it to work
> of course, is
> to have that one page just be bigger, but not to have
> user-available resizing.
>
> > And I haven't seen many
> > programs implementing resizable dialogs/pages btw.
Borland's Delphi / C++ Builder are great.. *g*

Chris


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RE: Setup window size: a suggestion

[Robert Collins]

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On Mon, 2002-09-09 at 07:47, Chris January wrote:
> 

> >
> > > And I haven't seen many
> > > programs implementing resizable dialogs/pages btw.
> Borland's Delphi / C++ Builder are great.. *g*

And non-free :].

More importantly, it's not the GUI that's the issue, it's the 'class' of
window that we are using that has the deficiency, if we had a look-alike
with the same API that could static link into setup, AND would notify
each page on resizes... then that should solve the issue. Perhaps we
should reimplement that window class?

Gary - whaddya think?

Rob


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RE: Setup window size: a suggestion

[Gary R. Van Sickle]

> On Mon, 2002-09-09 at 07:47, Chris January wrote:
> >
>
> > >
> > > > And I haven't seen many
> > > > programs implementing resizable dialogs/pages btw.
> > Borland's Delphi / C++ Builder are great.. *g*
>
> And non-free :].
>
> More importantly, it's not the GUI that's the issue, it's the 'class' of
> window that we are using that has the deficiency, if we had a look-alike
> with the same API that could static link into setup, AND would notify
> each page on resizes... then that should solve the issue. Perhaps we
> should reimplement that window class?
>
> Gary - whaddya think?

I try not to. ;-)

Rebuild a better, stronger, faster PropertySheet?  Sounds like a lot of work,
and potentially a lot of bloat (though the way things usually go, in the end
it'd probably be the path of least resistance).  I hain't licked yet; I'll curse
Bill's name for a few more hours before I throw the bathwater out with this baby
;-).

--
Gary R. Van Sickle
Brewer.  Patriot.


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RE: Setup window size: a suggestion

[Robert Collins]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 704 bytes --]

On Mon, 2002-09-09 at 08:31, Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:

> Rebuild a better, stronger, faster PropertySheet?  Sounds like a lot of work,
> and potentially a lot of bloat (though the way things usually go, in the end
> it'd probably be the path of least resistance).  I hain't licked yet; I'll curse
> Bill's name for a few more hours before I throw the bathwater out with this baby
> ;-).

Throw, throw :}.

Seriously, WINE and or ReactOS have either
a) done this already or
b) need to do this.

So the work should be able to be minimised.

As to bloat, I've been very satisfied with the compression of setup, so
I think we can squeeze this in (if you decide it's the best path).

Rob

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RE: Setup window size: a suggestion

[Pavel Tsekov]

On Sun, 8 Sep 2002, Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:

> > The current size of the property sheet pages follows a recommendation from
> > Microsoft on how a setup wizard should look and feel. As such it should
> > look and feel good on most desktops.
> >
> > As far as I remember the main purpose of resizable pages is to make the
> > chooser resizable.
> >
> > Other than that I don't see a reason to have them.
> 
> Right.  But we definitely need to do something to make the chooser page a bit
> less user-hostile.  My current thinking, if I can get it to work of course, is
> to have that one page just be bigger, but not to have user-available resizing.

Doesn't MoveWindow () help with this issue ?

Do you think to make the choose bigger by default as opposed to bigger 
based on user choice ? Personally, I would prefer to decide by myself if I 
want this feature or not. Btw a single bigger page won't fit well in the 
picture.




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RE: Setup window size: a suggestion

[Gary R. Van Sickle]

> On Sun, 8 Sep 2002, Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:
>
> > > The current size of the property sheet pages follows a recommendation from
> > > Microsoft on how a setup wizard should look and feel. As such it should
> > > look and feel good on most desktops.
> > >
> > > As far as I remember the main purpose of resizable pages is to make the
> > > chooser resizable.
> > >
> > > Other than that I don't see a reason to have them.
> >
> > Right.  But we definitely need to do something to make the chooser
> page a bit
> > less user-hostile.  My current thinking, if I can get it to work of
> course, is
> > to have that one page just be bigger, but not to have
> user-available resizing.
>
> Doesn't MoveWindow () help with this issue ?
>

MoveWindow() makes the window bigger, but does not change the positions of the
Next/Back/etc buttons.  I think what I'll end up doing is MoveWindow()'ing them
as well, once I figure out where to MoveWindow() them to.

> Do you think to make the choose bigger by default as opposed to bigger
> based on user choice ?

Yes.

> Personally, I would prefer to decide by myself if I
> want this feature or not.

Jeez, one cross at a time here, come on! ;-)

> Btw a single bigger page won't fit well in the
> picture.
>

I know.  But I can't think of a better option.  If we spawn off a separate
dialog, we're basically back to what we had before, which was even more
suboptimal.  MS themselves, in some of the more complicated installers I've seen
from them, seem to keep the smaller box and have something very similar to what
Rob's implemented in the default chooser view.  But it's cramped too and you're
thinking the whole time, "there's gotta be a better way".

So I'm more than open to ideas about different ways to handle this than a bigger
chooser.  I just can't think of any.

--
Gary R. Van Sickle
Brewer.  Patriot.




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RE: Setup window size: a suggestion

[Igor Pechtchanski]

On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:

> > On Sun, 8 Sep 2002, Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:
> >
> > > > As far as I remember the main purpose of resizable pages is to
> > > > make the chooser resizable.
> > >
> > > My current thinking, if I can get it to work of course, is to have
> > > that one page just be bigger, but not to have user-available
> > > resizing.
> >
> > Doesn't MoveWindow () help with this issue ?
>
> MoveWindow() makes the window bigger, but does not change the positions
> of the Next/Back/etc buttons.  I think what I'll end up doing is
> MoveWindow()'ing them as well, once I figure out where to MoveWindow()
> them to.

How about a simple rule: anchor the top elements (title, icon, category,
etc) to fixed positions relative to the top of the window, and the bottom
elements (buttons, user url input, etc) to fixed positions relative to the
bottom of the window.  On resize, recompute the positions relative to the
new window size.  If you want to be more discriminating, divide the
elements of a dialog into top-left, top-right, bottom-left, and
bottom-right, and follow the above rule.  I know it sounds kind of
obvious, but sometimes the obvious needs to be said, or it'll be
overlooked.  No offense intended or implied.
	Igor
-- 
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Re: Setup window size: a suggestion

[Don Dwiggins]

>> MoveWindow() makes the window bigger, but does not change the positions
>> of the Next/Back/etc buttons.  I think what I'll end up doing is
>> MoveWindow()'ing them as well, once I figure out where to MoveWindow()
>> them to.

> How about a simple rule: anchor the top elements (title, icon, category,
> etc) to fixed positions relative to the top of the window, and the bottom
> elements (buttons, user url input, etc) to fixed positions relative to the
> bottom of the window.  On resize, recompute the positions relative to the
> new window size.  If you want to be more discriminating, divide the
> elements of a dialog into top-left, top-right, bottom-left, and
> bottom-right, and follow the above rule.  I know it sounds kind of
> obvious, but sometimes the obvious needs to be said, or it'll be
> overlooked.  No offense intended or implied.

I'm not familiar with the code and issues surrounding setup, but I just had
a thought:

It may be overkill for the problem, but how about using wxWindows for the
setup GUI (http://www.wxwindows.org/)?  It has layout managers to handle
resizing, and there are tools available to help design the windows (although
I've found in using wxPython that it's pretty easy, using the managers, to
compose a window from a pencil sketch.  In fact, one could prototype the
application in wxPython, then do the final coding in C++ to eliminate the
Python dependency.)

FWIW,
-- 

Don Dwiggins
d.l.dwiggins@computer.org
"I heard the grating shrieks and clanks of a locomotive while the engineer 
heard the smooth symphony of a thousand moving parts."  
  -- Emil Gobersneke, as reported by Lon Badgett



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Re: Setup window size: a suggestion

[Robert Collins]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 827 bytes --]

On Wed, 2002-09-11 at 01:02, Don Dwiggins wrote:
> I'm not familiar with the code and issues surrounding setup, but I just had
> a thought:
> 
> It may be overkill for the problem, but how about using wxWindows for the
> setup GUI (http://www.wxwindows.org/)?  It has layout managers to handle
> resizing, and there are tools available to help design the windows (although
> I've found in using wxPython that it's pretty easy, using the managers, to
> compose a window from a pencil sketch.  In fact, one could prototype the
> application in wxPython, then do the final coding in C++ to eliminate the
> Python dependency.)

WxWindows is waaay to heavy for setup. If I was interested in using a
different toolkit to win32, it'd be fltk (for setup, not as a general
rule).

Thanks for the thought though.

Rob

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Re: Setup window size: a suggestion

[Joe Buehler]

Pavel Tsekov wrote:

> Other than that I don't see a reason to have them. And I haven't seen many 
> programs implementing resizable dialogs/pages btw.

This is one of the things that annoys me about some Windows programs -- I end
up with a teeny little box with 100 lines in it to choose from, but I can see
only 5 of them at a time.  Shooting is too good for whoever came up with
that "standard"!

Joe Buehler




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RE: Setup window size: a suggestion

[Gary R. Van Sickle]

[snip]

> > So, as a wise man once said, "the impossible will take a little longer".
>
> But isn't that exactly what my suggestion will allow to avoid?  If the
> window size is pre-selected (in fact, with a command-line option, you may
> even know it before any windows are created), dynamic resizing is not an
> issue.  The window will still be non-resizeable, but will have a different
> (fixed) size depending on the option.  This could possibly be accomplished
> by having multiple property sheet definitions and choosing the correct one
> at run-time (I'm not too up-to-date on windows programming, so please
> correct me if I'm wrong).
> 	Igor

No, see, the size of the sheet is determined by the size of the largest page in
the sheet.  The sizes of the sheets are specified in the dialog templates in the
resource file, i.e. at *compile* time.  So far I haven't found a way to change
these at run time and have the sheet recognize the change.

--
Gary R. Van Sickle
Brewer.  Patriot.


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RE: Setup window size: a suggestion

[Robert Collins]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1012 bytes --]

On Mon, 2002-09-09 at 04:14, Igor Pechtchanski wrote:
> On Sun, 8 Sep 2002, Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:

> But isn't that exactly what my suggestion will allow to avoid?  If the
> window size is pre-selected (in fact, with a command-line option, you may
> even know it before any windows are created), dynamic resizing is not an
> issue.  The window will still be non-resizeable, but will have a different
> (fixed) size depending on the option.  This could possibly be accomplished
> by having multiple property sheet definitions and choosing the correct one
> at run-time (I'm not too up-to-date on windows programming, so please
> correct me if I'm wrong).

We have command line option support, so adding a integer pair grabber
isn't a big deal. I'll let Gary answer as to the overhead multiple
window defs would incur (He's the w32 GUI wizzard :] ). 
I suspect that knowing the size in advance doesn't help much, as we
still have the resizing logic to manage on all the pages.

Cheers,
Rob

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RE: Setup window size: a suggestion

[Igor Pechtchanski]

On 9 Sep 2002, Robert Collins wrote:

> On Mon, 2002-09-09 at 04:14, Igor Pechtchanski wrote:
> > On Sun, 8 Sep 2002, Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:
>
> > But isn't that exactly what my suggestion will allow to avoid?  If the
> > window size is pre-selected (in fact, with a command-line option, you may
> > even know it before any windows are created), dynamic resizing is not an
> > issue.  The window will still be non-resizeable, but will have a different
> > (fixed) size depending on the option.  This could possibly be accomplished
> > by having multiple property sheet definitions and choosing the correct one
> > at run-time (I'm not too up-to-date on windows programming, so please
> > correct me if I'm wrong).
>
> We have command line option support, so adding a integer pair grabber
> isn't a big deal. I'll let Gary answer as to the overhead multiple
> window defs would incur (He's the w32 GUI wizzard :] ).
> I suspect that knowing the size in advance doesn't help much, as we
> still have the resizing logic to manage on all the pages.

What resizing logic?  I thought that if the size is fixed, the positions
of all the elements of a dialog window are determined in advance, even at
compile time...  And that it was just a question of choosing one of the
pre-compiled layouts at runtime, when the size is determined...  My
suggestion was not to allow the user to specify ANY size on the command
line, it was to let the user specify, for example, --window=large vs.
--window=small, or something like that.  This way the programmer would
have control of the window sizes.  But I'm probably still missing
something about the design of setup.  I'll browse the code some more to be
able to make more intelligent suggestions, I guess.
	Igor
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RE: Setup window size: a suggestion

[Pavel Tsekov]

On Sun, 8 Sep 2002, Igor Pechtchanski wrote:

> On 9 Sep 2002, Robert Collins wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, 2002-09-09 at 04:14, Igor Pechtchanski wrote:
> > > On Sun, 8 Sep 2002, Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:
> >
> > > But isn't that exactly what my suggestion will allow to avoid?  If the
> > > window size is pre-selected (in fact, with a command-line option, you may
> > > even know it before any windows are created), dynamic resizing is not an
> > > issue.  The window will still be non-resizeable, but will have a different
> > > (fixed) size depending on the option.  This could possibly be accomplished
> > > by having multiple property sheet definitions and choosing the correct one
> > > at run-time (I'm not too up-to-date on windows programming, so please
> > > correct me if I'm wrong).
> >
> > We have command line option support, so adding a integer pair grabber
> > isn't a big deal. I'll let Gary answer as to the overhead multiple
> > window defs would incur (He's the w32 GUI wizzard :] ).
> > I suspect that knowing the size in advance doesn't help much, as we
> > still have the resizing logic to manage on all the pages.
> 
> What resizing logic?  I thought that if the size is fixed, the positions
> of all the elements of a dialog window are determined in advance, even at
> compile time...  And that it was just a question of choosing one of the
> pre-compiled layouts at runtime, when the size is determined...  My

Yes, the size is. It is determined by values specified in the resource 
script for the size of each of the the wizard pages.

We can create several different sets of pages but that would mean that 
setup have to present a size chooser dialog on startup and than create the 
wizard with the approapriate page size or use a command line option 
instead of size chooser dialog. This, IMO, is not user-friendly:

a) either the user have to type at the command line (or modify a shortcut) 
   when all he wants is a graphical setup.

b) or have to choose from the size chooser dialog box which (1) has 
   nothing to do with the purpose of setup.exe and (2) has the drawback of 
   showing one dialog box than hiding that and showing another. This kinda 
   breaks the feel of a single process or whatever :)

To simplify this task setup can detect the current video mode at startup 
by itself and choose the proper size of the pages by himself.


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RE: Setup window size: a suggestion

[Igor Pechtchanski]

On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Pavel Tsekov wrote:

> On Sun, 8 Sep 2002, Igor Pechtchanski wrote:
>
> > On 9 Sep 2002, Robert Collins wrote:
> >
> > > On Mon, 2002-09-09 at 04:14, Igor Pechtchanski wrote:
> > > > On Sun, 8 Sep 2002, Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:
> > >
> > > > But isn't that exactly what my suggestion will allow to avoid?  If the
> > > > window size is pre-selected (in fact, with a command-line option, you may
> > > > even know it before any windows are created), dynamic resizing is not an
> > > > issue.  The window will still be non-resizeable, but will have a different
> > > > (fixed) size depending on the option.  This could possibly be accomplished
> > > > by having multiple property sheet definitions and choosing the correct one
> > > > at run-time (I'm not too up-to-date on windows programming, so please
> > > > correct me if I'm wrong).
> > >
> > > We have command line option support, so adding a integer pair grabber
> > > isn't a big deal. I'll let Gary answer as to the overhead multiple
> > > window defs would incur (He's the w32 GUI wizzard :] ).
> > > I suspect that knowing the size in advance doesn't help much, as we
> > > still have the resizing logic to manage on all the pages.
> >
> > What resizing logic?  I thought that if the size is fixed, the positions
> > of all the elements of a dialog window are determined in advance, even at
> > compile time...  And that it was just a question of choosing one of the
> > pre-compiled layouts at runtime, when the size is determined...  My
>
> Yes, the size is. It is determined by values specified in the resource
> script for the size of each of the the wizard pages.
>
> We can create several different sets of pages but that would mean that
> setup have to present a size chooser dialog on startup and than create the
> wizard with the approapriate page size or use a command line option
> instead of size chooser dialog. This, IMO, is not user-friendly:
>
> a) either the user have to type at the command line (or modify a shortcut)
>    when all he wants is a graphical setup.
>
> b) or have to choose from the size chooser dialog box which (1) has
>    nothing to do with the purpose of setup.exe and (2) has the drawback of
>    showing one dialog box than hiding that and showing another. This kinda
>    breaks the feel of a single process or whatever :)
>
> To simplify this task setup can detect the current video mode at startup
> by itself and choose the proper size of the pages by himself.

I like that last one (detecting the video mode), and was going to suggest
it too, but then thought that some users might like more control over
their window size...  However, on reflection, it does sound good.  And for
the control freaks (like me), a command-line option wouldn't hurt,
either... ;-)
	Igor
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Re: Setup window size: a suggestion

[Norman Vine]

Igor Pechtchanski writes:

> I like that last one (detecting the video mode), and was going to suggest
> it too, but then thought that some users might like more control over
> their window size...  However, on reflection, it does sound good.  And for
> the control freaks (like me), a command-line option wouldn't hurt,
> either... ;-)

#include <windows.h>

     DEVMODE dm;
     dm.dmSize = sizeof(DEVMODE);
     EnumDisplaySettings(NULL, ENUM_CURRENT_SETTINGS, &dm);

Relevant bits are

   dm.dmPelsWidth    // screen width
   dm.dmPelsHeight  //  screen height

HTH

Norman


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RE: Setup window size: a suggestion

[Robert Collins]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 305 bytes --]

On Mon, 2002-09-09 at 10:39, Igor Pechtchanski wrote:

> What resizing logic?  

I read your email as suggesting three things:
1) command line selectable sizes.
2) use several pre-defined window defs or
3) set the window size before creating the windows based on the command
line options.

Rob

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

RE: Setup window size: a suggestion

[Igor Pechtchanski]

On 9 Sep 2002, Robert Collins wrote:

> On Mon, 2002-09-09 at 10:39, Igor Pechtchanski wrote:
>
> > What resizing logic?
>
> I read your email as suggesting three things:
> 1) command line selectable sizes.
> 2) use several pre-defined window defs or
> 3) set the window size before creating the windows based on the command
> line options.

Mea culpa.  I should have expressed myself better.  What I meant to
suggest is a list of pre-defined fixed window sizes that would be
selectable through either a dialog or a command-line option.  These window
sizes could also, per Pavel Tsekov's suggestion, correspond to the common
video modes.
As far as I understand, the dialogs are defined in the resource files.  If
there are multiple resource files, each of which defines dialogs for a
particular window size, the right one can be selected in main() (when all
the *::Create() methods are called).
	Igor
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RE: Setup window size: a suggestion

[Garth Dahlstrom]

[was Re: RFE - Cygwin setup.exe]

My appolgies, seems folks have started thread on this already...

I see 2 ways to overcome the issue of the resizable installer/
package selection dialog size:

Option 1) add a button to the bottom of the package selection screen
that says 'Zoom' and make it open only the packages selection
related stuff in a new modal window that is bigger/resizable.

Option 2) rework the whole setup program to be resizable, this 
can be done using a lot of panels that are aligned something like
this (I've done this in Delphi before):
+-Form1 --------------------+
|+-P1-alTop----------------+|
||+P3-alClient-++P2-alRight||
||| "Choose..."|| [Icon]  |||
||+------------++---------+||
|+-------------------------+|
|+-P6-alClient-------------+|
||                         ||
|| () Install from Internet||
|| () DL from Internet     ||
|| () Install from Localdir||
||                         ||
|+-------------------------+|
|+-P4-alBottom-------------+|
||              +P5-alRight||
||              |[buttons]|||
||              +---------+||
|+-------------------------+|
+---------------------------+
Px is TPanel type, where x is the creation order using a gui.
alxxxx is the Align property of the Tpanel object.

If I had to choose, I would do option 1 cause it is really 
easy, and I'm lazy.  option 2 would be quite a bit more rework
to the way things are I should think.

-Garth

Northern.CA ===--
http://www.northern.ca 
Canada's Search Engine

On Sat, 28 Sep 2002 10:57:16 -0400 (EDT) Igor Pechtchanski wrote:
> 
> Garth,
> 
> You may start by searching the cygwin and cygwin-apps mailing lists
> archives for "resizable setup"...
> 	Igor




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RE: Setup window size: a suggestion

[Igor Pechtchanski]

Garth,

FYI: Setup currently uses a set of static resource files for its dialogs.
The setup developers have adopted a model where all the dialogs have the
same size, and are drawn in the same window (IIRC, I may be mistaken).

You seem to have some experience with this kind of programming.  Why not
check out the setup sources from cvs (see
http://sources.redhat.com/cygwin-apps/setup.html for instructions) and try
to make a patch?  If this works, I'm sure it would be widely appreciated
by the community... :-D
	Igor

On Sat, 28 Sep 2002, Garth Dahlstrom wrote:

> [was Re: RFE - Cygwin setup.exe]
>
> My appolgies, seems folks have started thread on this already...
>
> I see 2 ways to overcome the issue of the resizable installer/
> package selection dialog size:
>
> Option 1) add a button to the bottom of the package selection screen
> that says 'Zoom' and make it open only the packages selection
> related stuff in a new modal window that is bigger/resizable.
>
> Option 2) rework the whole setup program to be resizable, this
> can be done using a lot of panels that are aligned something like
> this (I've done this in Delphi before):
> +-Form1 --------------------+
> |+-P1-alTop----------------+|
> ||+P3-alClient-++P2-alRight||
> ||| "Choose..."|| [Icon]  |||
> ||+------------++---------+||
> |+-------------------------+|
> |+-P6-alClient-------------+|
> ||                         ||
> || () Install from Internet||
> || () DL from Internet     ||
> || () Install from Localdir||
> ||                         ||
> |+-------------------------+|
> |+-P4-alBottom-------------+|
> ||              +P5-alRight||
> ||              |[buttons]|||
> ||              +---------+||
> |+-------------------------+|
> +---------------------------+
> Px is TPanel type, where x is the creation order using a gui.
> alxxxx is the Align property of the Tpanel object.
>
> If I had to choose, I would do option 1 cause it is really
> easy, and I'm lazy.  option 2 would be quite a bit more rework
> to the way things are I should think.
>
> -Garth
>
> Northern.CA ===--
> http://www.northern.ca
> Canada's Search Engine
>
> On Sat, 28 Sep 2002 10:57:16 -0400 (EDT) Igor Pechtchanski wrote:
> >
> > Garth,
> >
> > You may start by searching the cygwin and cygwin-apps mailing lists
> > archives for "resizable setup"...
> >       Igor
>
>
>
>
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Re: Setup window size: a suggestion

[Garth Dahlstrom]

I'm pretty useless when it comes to building stuff at a command 
line...  

I gave getting from CVS and building it a go... I've had a bunch
of headaches, I have no idea what packages I need to build it
(since I didn't install everything), I figured out for sure you
can't use GCC 3.2, had to downgrade...  btw, try searching for 
C++ compiler error in ht/dig (bye-bye +'s).

I tried the instructions at also:
http://sources.redhat.com/ml/cygwin/2002-06/msg00709.html

I got as far as running bootstrap.sh and I get this 
Can't find /usr/autotool/devel/bin/aclocal, which I have no idea
what package to install for...  btw, is there a tool that I can use
to find out which package to install for command 'x'?

Once I can build the setup.exe then I'll have a go at a patch,
but I'm giving up for today... 

-Garth

Northern.CA ===--
http://www.northern.ca 
Canada's Search Engine

On Sat, 28 Sep 2002 12:18:09 -0400 (EDT) Igor Pechtchanski wrote:

> Garth,
> 
> FYI: Setup currently uses a set of static resource files for its dialogs.
> The setup developers have adopted a model where all the dialogs have the
> same size, and are drawn in the same window (IIRC, I may be mistaken).
> 
> You seem to have some experience with this kind of programming.  Why not
> check out the setup sources from cvs (see
> http://sources.redhat.com/cygwin-apps/setup.html for instructions) and try
> to make a patch?  If this works, I'm sure it would be widely appreciated
> by the community... :-D
> 	Igor
> 
> On Sat, 28 Sep 2002, Garth Dahlstrom wrote:
> 
> > [was Re: RFE - Cygwin setup.exe]
> >
> > My appolgies, seems folks have started thread on this already...
> >
> > I see 2 ways to overcome the issue of the resizable installer/
> > package selection dialog size:
> >
> > Option 1) add a button to the bottom of the package selection screen
> > that says 'Zoom' and make it open only the packages selection
> > related stuff in a new modal window that is bigger/resizable.
> >
> > Option 2) rework the whole setup program to be resizable, this
> > can be done using a lot of panels that are aligned something like
> > this (I've done this in Delphi before):
> > +-Form1 --------------------+
> > |+-P1-alTop----------------+|
> > ||+P3-alClient-++P2-alRight||
> > ||| "Choose..."|| [Icon]  |||
> > ||+------------++---------+||
> > |+-------------------------+|
> > |+-P6-alClient-------------+|
> > ||                         ||
> > || () Install from Internet||
> > || () DL from Internet     ||
> > || () Install from Localdir||
> > ||                         ||
> > |+-------------------------+|
> > |+-P4-alBottom-------------+|
> > ||              +P5-alRight||
> > ||              |[buttons]|||
> > ||              +---------+||
> > |+-------------------------+|
> > +---------------------------+
> > Px is TPanel type, where x is the creation order using a gui.
> > alxxxx is the Align property of the Tpanel object.
> >
> > If I had to choose, I would do option 1 cause it is really
> > easy, and I'm lazy.  option 2 would be quite a bit more rework
> > to the way things are I should think.
> >
> > -Garth
> >
> > Northern.CA ===--
> > http://www.northern.ca
> > Canada's Search Engine
> >



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Re: Setup window size: a suggestion

[Christopher Faylor]

On Sat, Sep 28, 2002 at 05:56:51PM -0400, Garth Dahlstrom wrote:
>
>I'm pretty useless when it comes to building stuff at a command 
>line...  
>
>I gave getting from CVS and building it a go... I've had a bunch
>of headaches, I have no idea what packages I need to build it
>(since I didn't install everything), I figured out for sure you
>can't use GCC 3.2, had to downgrade...  btw, try searching for 
>C++ compiler error in ht/dig (bye-bye +'s).
>
>I tried the instructions at also:
>http://sources.redhat.com/ml/cygwin/2002-06/msg00709.html
>
>I got as far as running bootstrap.sh and I get this 
>Can't find /usr/autotool/devel/bin/aclocal, which I have no idea
>what package to install for...  btw, is there a tool that I can use
>to find out which package to install for command 'x'?

http://cygwin.com/packages/

cgf

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