* Re: Fwd: md5sum using Cygwin in Windows
2008-06-25 2:48 ` Ben
@ 2008-06-25 5:32 ` Christopher Faylor
2008-06-25 6:09 ` Paul Newell
2008-06-25 5:49 ` Ben
2008-06-27 22:47 ` Zheng Li
2 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Christopher Faylor @ 2008-06-25 5:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: cygwin
On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 05:43:39PM -0700, Ben wrote:
>"The project is geared towards people who understand a UNIX(tm)
>environment. If that isn't you, then it's hard to see why you're
>dabbling with Ubuntu."
>
>If I don't understand UNIX, then it's hard to see why I'm dabbling
>with Ubuntu? Is that a mistype? Did you mean to say that it's easy to
>see why I'm dabbling with Ubuntu, as it is generally thought to be a
>newbie-friendly distro? Is there a more approachable way to understand
>UNIX?
>
>It's no wonder that Linux has roughly 1% desktop market share with
>that sort of attitude. Unfortunately, Ubuntu doesn't even display
>right on my laptop, so it'll be a while yet before I do understand
>Linux.
Wow! Zing!
cgf
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: Fwd: md5sum using Cygwin in Windows
2008-06-25 5:32 ` Christopher Faylor
@ 2008-06-25 6:09 ` Paul Newell
2008-06-25 8:49 ` Christopher Faylor
0 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Paul Newell @ 2008-06-25 6:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: cygwin; +Cc: pnewell
"Wow! Zing!" ???
Hum ...
I would think a simple "yes, understanding Unix/Linux before dealing
with Cygwin" would have been a bit more professional .. or, probably
more to the point, encouraging one to pursue learning Unix/Linux.
Regarding his comment of Ubuntu being "newbie-friendly", I live in a
RH/Fedora world and I was advised by Linux folks I respect to not try to
bring my own system up under Ubuntu as it would confuse me since I am a
programmer and not a sysAdmin guru. I'm not advocating RH/Fedora, but
flavors on Linux are important and following this post gives me the
sense that Cygwin is RH based (underscored by
http://www.redhat.com/software/cygwin/). Hence, that might be a better
model towards his understanding Linux and then Cygwin.
Paul
(the person who might be referred to in cgf's "Hmm. Just got a similar
question on irc a while ago.Cygwin doesn't use : or \." (23jun08, same
thread) which may be fundamental but still a necessary learning
experience by doing wrong and being corrected ... twice)
Christopher Faylor wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 05:43:39PM -0700, Ben wrote:
>
>> "The project is geared towards people who understand a UNIX(tm)
>> environment. If that isn't you, then it's hard to see why you're
>> dabbling with Ubuntu."
>>
>> If I don't understand UNIX, then it's hard to see why I'm dabbling
>> with Ubuntu? Is that a mistype? Did you mean to say that it's easy to
>> see why I'm dabbling with Ubuntu, as it is generally thought to be a
>> newbie-friendly distro? Is there a more approachable way to understand
>> UNIX?
>>
>> It's no wonder that Linux has roughly 1% desktop market share with
>> that sort of attitude. Unfortunately, Ubuntu doesn't even display
>> right on my laptop, so it'll be a while yet before I do understand
>> Linux.
>>
>
> Wow! Zing!
>
> cgf
>
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>
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: Fwd: md5sum using Cygwin in Windows
2008-06-25 6:09 ` Paul Newell
@ 2008-06-25 8:49 ` Christopher Faylor
2008-06-26 8:53 ` Paul Newell
2008-06-27 7:31 ` Brian Mathis
0 siblings, 2 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Christopher Faylor @ 2008-06-25 8:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: cygwin
On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 10:31:58PM -0700, Paul Newell wrote:
> "Wow! Zing!" ???
>
> Hum ...
>
>I would think a simple "yes, understanding Unix/Linux before dealing
>with Cygwin" would have been a bit more professional .. or, probably
>more to the point, encouraging one to pursue learning Unix/Linux.
think "Wow! Zing!" was not anyone trying to be professional or
encouraging. I very much do not care what version of Linux someone uses
and do not care if someone learns Unix. I do think that people should
spend a modicum of time familiarizing themselves with something before
offering criticisms, suggestions, or advice, however. If they can't be
bothered to do that, and want to lecture or criticize, they should be
prepared not to be taken very seriously.
Oh and FYI, this isn't paid support and no one here has to make any
effort whatsoever to be "professional".
>Regarding his comment of Ubuntu being "newbie-friendly", I live in a
>RH/Fedora world and I was advised by Linux folks I respect to not try
>to bring my own system up under Ubuntu as it would confuse me since I
>am a programmer and not a sysAdmin guru. I'm not advocating RH/Fedora,
>but flavors on Linux are important and following this post gives me the
>sense that Cygwin is RH based (underscored by
>http://www.redhat.com/software/cygwin/). Hence, that might be a better
>model towards his understanding Linux and then Cygwin.
You're wrong. You're using software from http://cygwin.com/ . It is not
"RH based" in any way. I use Ubuntu and Gentoo on the systems where I
develop Cygwin. Some package developers possibly don't have any Linux
system whatsoever.
As far as actual code in Cygwin is concerned, you could make the case that
if Cygwin is "based" on anything it would be FreeBSD, not Linux.
You seem to be missing the point that the only reason the OP downloaded
Cygwin was to install Ubuntu.
>(the person who might be referred to in cgf's "Hmm. Just got a similar
>question on irc a while ago.Cygwin doesn't use : or \." (23jun08, same
>thread) which may be fundamental but still a necessary learning
>experience by doing wrong and being corrected ... twice)
Your confusion about /cygdrive was in email, not irc. If you really
were the person who was asking on irc that would qualify as being
confused four times since I had to repeat myself there at least twice.
cgf
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: Fwd: md5sum using Cygwin in Windows
2008-06-25 8:49 ` Christopher Faylor
@ 2008-06-26 8:53 ` Paul Newell
2008-06-27 7:31 ` Brian Mathis
1 sibling, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Paul Newell @ 2008-06-26 8:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: cygwin; +Cc: pnewell
My thanks for offering the "if Cygwin is based on anything it would be
FreeBSD, not Linux". I took the link I posted too literally.
There was no point to be missed in OP's purpose as I couldn't have cared
less what his purpose was.
Though I still dislike "Wow! Zing!", I agree with your stated reasons
excluding not caring if someone learns Unix (and allow me to alter your
sentence to include Linux). You're not paid, this is all volunteer, I
would think you'd want folks to learn it as all your free labor is in
support of folks that have vested in that workflow. But you are right to
say that if you want to play in the game, you gotta invest in learning
the rules. So maybe "Wow!" clears that bar.
I consider this thread closed with a thanks for your replying..
Next time I send an email, it will be after I have hopefully done due
"modicum of time" (this is meant seriously with respect to the nature of
the email forum, not as a slight as the quotes might mistakenly imply).
Christopher Faylor wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 10:31:58PM -0700, Paul Newell wrote:
>
>> "Wow! Zing!" ???
>>
>> Hum ...
>>
>> I would think a simple "yes, understanding Unix/Linux before dealing
>> with Cygwin" would have been a bit more professional .. or, probably
>> more to the point, encouraging one to pursue learning Unix/Linux.
>>
>
> think "Wow! Zing!" was not anyone trying to be professional or
> encouraging. I very much do not care what version of Linux someone uses
> and do not care if someone learns Unix. I do think that people should
> spend a modicum of time familiarizing themselves with something before
> offering criticisms, suggestions, or advice, however. If they can't be
> bothered to do that, and want to lecture or criticize, they should be
> prepared not to be taken very seriously.
>
> Oh and FYI, this isn't paid support and no one here has to make any
> effort whatsoever to be "professional".
>
>
>> Regarding his comment of Ubuntu being "newbie-friendly", I live in a
>> RH/Fedora world and I was advised by Linux folks I respect to not try
>> to bring my own system up under Ubuntu as it would confuse me since I
>> am a programmer and not a sysAdmin guru. I'm not advocating RH/Fedora,
>> but flavors on Linux are important and following this post gives me the
>> sense that Cygwin is RH based (underscored by
>> http://www.redhat.com/software/cygwin/). Hence, that might be a better
>> model towards his understanding Linux and then Cygwin.
>>
>
> You're wrong. You're using software from http://cygwin.com/ . It is not
> "RH based" in any way. I use Ubuntu and Gentoo on the systems where I
> develop Cygwin. Some package developers possibly don't have any Linux
> system whatsoever.
>
> As far as actual code in Cygwin is concerned, you could make the case that
> if Cygwin is "based" on anything it would be FreeBSD, not Linux.
>
> You seem to be missing the point that the only reason the OP downloaded
> Cygwin was to install Ubuntu.
>
>
>> (the person who might be referred to in cgf's "Hmm. Just got a similar
>> question on irc a while ago.Cygwin doesn't use : or \." (23jun08, same
>> thread) which may be fundamental but still a necessary learning
>> experience by doing wrong and being corrected ... twice)
>>
>
> Your confusion about /cygdrive was in email, not irc. If you really
> were the person who was asking on irc that would qualify as being
> confused four times since I had to repeat myself there at least twice.
>
> cgf
>
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>
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: Fwd: md5sum using Cygwin in Windows
2008-06-25 8:49 ` Christopher Faylor
2008-06-26 8:53 ` Paul Newell
@ 2008-06-27 7:31 ` Brian Mathis
2008-06-27 14:55 ` Christopher Faylor
1 sibling, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Brian Mathis @ 2008-06-27 7:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: cygwin
On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 12:26 AM, Christopher Faylor
<cgf-use-the-mailinglist-please@cygwin.com> wrote:
>
> think "Wow! Zing!" was not anyone trying to be professional or
> encouraging. I very much do not care what version of Linux someone uses
> and do not care if someone learns Unix. I do think that people should
> spend a modicum of time familiarizing themselves with something before
> offering criticisms, suggestions, or advice, however. If they can't be
> bothered to do that, and want to lecture or criticize, they should be
> prepared not to be taken very seriously.
>
I _also_ think people should spend a modicum of time familiarizing
themselves with something before using it, especially when it allows
them to communicate with others of the human race. One should, before
attempting to communicate with others, become well-versed in skills
like "common courtesy", "politeness", and "how not to be an a**hole".
It's also useful if people remember that at one point they did not
know anything, and had to learn things. It would also be good for
them to remember that all knowledge comes from other people, and
anything they learned was once taught to them by another person, be it
through direct communication or recorded media.
In addition, a bit of time should be spent thinking about the effect
that ignoring these rules might have on someone else who is starting
down a path of knowledge and learning, and how a member of that
community's response might forever damage the education and perception
said new person will have about that community.
While one may not always strive to be professional, one should always
strive to be human.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: Fwd: md5sum using Cygwin in Windows
2008-06-27 7:31 ` Brian Mathis
@ 2008-06-27 14:55 ` Christopher Faylor
0 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Christopher Faylor @ 2008-06-27 14:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: cygwin
On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 11:17:25PM -0600, Brian Mathis wrote:
>I _also_ think people should spend a modicum of time familiarizing
>themselves with something before using it, especially when it allows
>them to communicate with others of the human race. One should, before
>attempting to communicate with others, become well-versed in skills
>like "common courtesy", "politeness", and "how not to be an a**hole".
Wow! Er, ah, oh nevermind.
cgf
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: Fwd: md5sum using Cygwin in Windows
2008-06-25 2:48 ` Ben
2008-06-25 5:32 ` Christopher Faylor
@ 2008-06-25 5:49 ` Ben
2008-06-27 22:47 ` Zheng Li
2 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Ben @ 2008-06-25 5:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: cygwin
Also: thanks for the answer. It actually doesn't really matter, and
maybe it is unnecessary for Cygwin to bother catering towards people
without UNIX experience at all. They probably should be avoiding it
until after they've had some experience with Linux.
On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 5:43 PM, Ben <ben@pacificu.edu> wrote:
> "The project is geared towards people who understand a UNIX(tm)
> environment. If that isn't you, then it's hard to see why you're
> dabbling with Ubuntu."
>
> If I don't understand UNIX, then it's hard to see why I'm dabbling
> with Ubuntu? Is that a mistype? Did you mean to say that it's easy to
> see why I'm dabbling with Ubuntu, as it is generally thought to be a
> newbie-friendly distro? Is there a more approachable way to understand
> UNIX?
>
> It's no wonder that Linux has roughly 1% desktop market share with
> that sort of attitude. Unfortunately, Ubuntu doesn't even display
> right on my laptop, so it'll be a while yet before I do understand
> Linux.
>
> - B
>
> On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 4:17 PM, Christopher Faylor
> <cgf-use-the-mailinglist-please@cygwin.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 02:42:49PM -0700, Ben wrote:
>>>Removed my HTML to send this off...
>>
>> It is not important for anyone to know this.
>>
>>>The Ubuntu help says that if you download Cygwin (link:
>>>https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToMD5SUM), you can follow the
>>>Linux directions. I'm using the Cygwin shell and it is not working. I
>>>downloaded the file to C. I type:
>>>
>>>cd C:\
>>>
>>>So far, so good. The (zippied) file ubutuntu-8.04-desktop-i386.iso is
>>>sitting in C:\. So I type:
>>>
>>>md5sum ubutuntu-8.04-desktop-i386.iso
>>>
>>>"No such file or directory."
>>>
>>>Ah well. Cygwin does not seem to be a very newbie-friendly
>>>application. "Help cd" offers one a starkly technical little
>>>paragraph. Incidentally, how does one even go to the Desktop directory
>>>(which lies at C:\Documents and Settings\Ben\Desktop for me) with
>>>Cygwin? Whenever you put in a space, Cygwin seems to reject it.
>>
>> Hmm. Just got a similar question on irc a while ago.
>>
>> Cygwin doesn't use : or \. Use:
>>
>> cd "/cygdrive/c/Documents and Settings/Ben/Desktop"
>>
>> And, btw, your "newbie-friendly" comment shows that you apparently have
>> no idea what Cygwin is and possibly have no idea what Linux is all
>> about. The project is geared towards people who understand a UNIX(tm)
>> environment. If that isn't you, then it's hard to see why you're
>> dabbling with Ubuntu.
>>
>> cgf
>>
>>
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: Fwd: md5sum using Cygwin in Windows
2008-06-25 2:48 ` Ben
2008-06-25 5:32 ` Christopher Faylor
2008-06-25 5:49 ` Ben
@ 2008-06-27 22:47 ` Zheng Li
2008-06-29 3:51 ` Robert Pendell
2 siblings, 1 reply; 18+ messages in thread
From: Zheng Li @ 2008-06-27 22:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: cygwin
Ben wrote:
> "The project is geared towards people who understand a UNIX(tm)
> environment. If that isn't you, then it's hard to see why you're
> dabbling with Ubuntu."
>
> If I don't understand UNIX, then it's hard to see why I'm dabbling
> with Ubuntu? Is that a mistype? Did you mean to say that it's easy to
> see why I'm dabbling with Ubuntu, as it is generally thought to be a
> newbie-friendly distro? Is there a more approachable way to understand
> UNIX?
>
> It's no wonder that Linux has roughly 1% desktop market share with
> that sort of attitude. Unfortunately, Ubuntu doesn't even display
> right on my laptop, so it'll be a while yet before I do understand
> Linux.
>
> - B
>
> On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 4:17 PM, Christopher Faylor
> <cgf-use-the-mailinglist-please@cygwin.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 02:42:49PM -0700, Ben wrote:
>>
>>> Removed my HTML to send this off...
>>>
>> It is not important for anyone to know this.
>>
>>
>>> The Ubuntu help says that if you download Cygwin (link:
>>> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToMD5SUM), you can follow the
>>> Linux directions. I'm using the Cygwin shell and it is not working. I
>>> downloaded the file to C. I type:
>>>
>>> cd C:\
>>>
>>> So far, so good. The (zippied) file ubutuntu-8.04-desktop-i386.iso is
>>> sitting in C:\. So I type:
>>>
>>> md5sum ubutuntu-8.04-desktop-i386.iso
>>>
>>> "No such file or directory."
>>>
>>> Ah well. Cygwin does not seem to be a very newbie-friendly
>>> application. "Help cd" offers one a starkly technical little
>>> paragraph. Incidentally, how does one even go to the Desktop directory
>>> (which lies at C:\Documents and Settings\Ben\Desktop for me) with
>>> Cygwin? Whenever you put in a space, Cygwin seems to reject it.
>>>
>> Hmm. Just got a similar question on irc a while ago.
>>
>> Cygwin doesn't use : or \. Use:
>>
>> cd "/cygdrive/c/Documents and Settings/Ben/Desktop"
>>
>> And, btw, your "newbie-friendly" comment shows that you apparently have
>> no idea what Cygwin is and possibly have no idea what Linux is all
>> about. The project is geared towards people who understand a UNIX(tm)
>> environment. If that isn't you, then it's hard to see why you're
>> dabbling with Ubuntu.
>>
>> cgf
>>
>>
>>
>
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>
>
>
Well, if you use linux system in a MS windows style where clicking
buttons can almost solve everything,
then you may waste of your valuable times and totally loss your
confidence on Linux. You need to
read a book and just learn it, like what you do in other computer
lessons. Linux expects you as a master
and this assumption may be harmful to newbies. Fortunately, after a
shape learning line, you can control
your linux system to do lots of things windows can't do.
Yours
Zheng
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread
* Re: Fwd: md5sum using Cygwin in Windows
2008-06-27 22:47 ` Zheng Li
@ 2008-06-29 3:51 ` Robert Pendell
0 siblings, 0 replies; 18+ messages in thread
From: Robert Pendell @ 2008-06-29 3:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: cygwin
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Zheng Li wrote:
| Ben wrote:
|> "The project is geared towards people who understand a UNIX(tm)
|> environment. If that isn't you, then it's hard to see why you're
|> dabbling with Ubuntu."
|>
|> If I don't understand UNIX, then it's hard to see why I'm dabbling
|> with Ubuntu? Is that a mistype? Did you mean to say that it's easy to
|> see why I'm dabbling with Ubuntu, as it is generally thought to be a
|> newbie-friendly distro? Is there a more approachable way to understand
|> UNIX?
|>
|> It's no wonder that Linux has roughly 1% desktop market share with
|> that sort of attitude. Unfortunately, Ubuntu doesn't even display
|> right on my laptop, so it'll be a while yet before I do understand
|> Linux.
|>
|> - B
|>
|> On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 4:17 PM, Christopher Faylor
|> <cgf-use-the-mailinglist-please@cygwin.com> wrote:
|>
|>> On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 02:42:49PM -0700, Ben wrote:
|>>
|>>> Removed my HTML to send this off...
|>>>
|>> It is not important for anyone to know this.
|>>
|>>
|>>> The Ubuntu help says that if you download Cygwin (link:
|>>> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToMD5SUM), you can follow the
|>>> Linux directions. I'm using the Cygwin shell and it is not working. I
|>>> downloaded the file to C. I type:
|>>>
|>>> cd C:\
|>>>
|>>> So far, so good. The (zippied) file ubutuntu-8.04-desktop-i386.iso is
|>>> sitting in C:\. So I type:
|>>>
|>>> md5sum ubutuntu-8.04-desktop-i386.iso
|>>>
|>>> "No such file or directory."
|>>>
|>>> Ah well. Cygwin does not seem to be a very newbie-friendly
|>>> application. "Help cd" offers one a starkly technical little
|>>> paragraph. Incidentally, how does one even go to the Desktop directory
|>>> (which lies at C:\Documents and Settings\Ben\Desktop for me) with
|>>> Cygwin? Whenever you put in a space, Cygwin seems to reject it.
|>>>
|>> Hmm. Just got a similar question on irc a while ago.
|>>
|>> Cygwin doesn't use : or \. Use:
|>>
|>> cd "/cygdrive/c/Documents and Settings/Ben/Desktop"
|>>
|>> And, btw, your "newbie-friendly" comment shows that you apparently have
|>> no idea what Cygwin is and possibly have no idea what Linux is all
|>> about. The project is geared towards people who understand a UNIX(tm)
|>> environment. If that isn't you, then it's hard to see why you're
|>> dabbling with Ubuntu.
|>>
|>> cgf
|>>
|>>
|>>
|>
|> --
|> Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
|> Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html
|> Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html
|> FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
|>
|>
|>
| Well, if you use linux system in a MS windows style where clicking
| buttons can almost solve everything,
| then you may waste of your valuable times and totally loss your
| confidence on Linux. You need to
| read a book and just learn it, like what you do in other computer
| lessons. Linux expects you as a master
| and this assumption may be harmful to newbies. Fortunately, after a
| shape learning line, you can control
| your linux system to do lots of things windows can't do.
| Yours
| Zheng
|
I don't think that any linux user expects anyone else to be a master of
it but be rather knowledgable about what they are going into prior to
jumping in. There are some really bad and stupid questions to be had
out there. I know because I have answered some and only shook my head
while doing so.
- --
Robert Pendell
shinji@elite-systems.org
"A perfect world is one of chaos."
Thawte Web of Trust Notary
CAcert Assurer
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 18+ messages in thread