Where to find a reliable provider of CygwinX?

Where to find a reliable provider of CygwinX?

[Jørgen Steensgaard]

After having installed a basic version of Cygwin I wanted to install X 
and a few programs that depend on it.  Using one mirror I thought I was 
doing well, but no program X were found.  Somehow I got the information 
that xinit was needed, but that I could not obtain from the mirror. So I 
found another and lo-and-behold: I got xinit, X, and Xemacs.

 From previous experience I knew that the X-server should be started 
somehow, but I could not resist to call Xemacs right away.  And believe 
it or not: it could not start, and complained about a missing 
cygjpeg-62.dll.  So back to the provider to have a look for the package 
libjpeg-62, identified by a lookup elsewhere.  But neither of the two 
providers had such a package, but instead some different libjpeg-*. 
After having downloaded all of these, the complaint came back again.

So: please give me some advice on where to find a provider of all 
packages and preferably also some about how packages have been tested 
for completeness.

Sincerely

Jørgen Steensgaard



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Re: Where to find a reliable provider of CygwinX?

[marco atzeri]

On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Jørgen Steensgaard  wrote:
> After having installed a basic version of Cygwin I wanted to install X and a
> few programs that depend on it.  Using one mirror I thought I was doing
> well, but no program X were found.  Somehow I got the information that xinit
> was needed, but that I could not obtain from the mirror. So I found another
> and lo-and-behold: I got xinit, X, and Xemacs.
>
> From previous experience I knew that the X-server should be started somehow,
> but I could not resist to call Xemacs right away.  And believe it or not: it
> could not start, and complained about a missing cygjpeg-62.dll.  So back to
> the provider to have a look for the package libjpeg-62, identified by a
> lookup elsewhere.  But neither of the two providers had such a package, but
> instead some different libjpeg-*. After having downloaded all of these, the
> complaint came back again.

the package is "libjpeg62"
http://cygwin.com/cgi-bin2/package-cat.cgi?file=libjpeg62%2Flibjpeg62-6b-21&grep=cygjpeg-62.dll

are you sue that xemacs need cygjpeg-62.dll ?

on the setup.ini file it is reported libjpeg8

@ emacs-X11
sdesc: "X11 binaries for Emacs."
ldesc: "This package contains the X11 binaries for emacs.  Install
it if you want to run emacs using the X window system for
display.  The binaries also can be used in non-X11 mode."
category: Editors Interpreters
requires: alternatives emacs font-adobe-dpi75 font-misc-misc libICE6
libSM6 libX11_6 libXft2 libXpm4 libXrender1 libdbus1_3 libfontconfig1
libfreetype6 libgcc1 libgdk_pixbuf2.0_0 libgif4 libglib2.0_0
libgtk2.0_0 libjpeg8 libncursesw10 libpng12 libtiff5 cygwin
version: 23.2-3

what is the output of    "cygcheck emacs-X11.exe"  ?

>
> So: please give me some advice on where to find a provider of all packages
> and preferably also some about how packages have been tested for
> completeness.

any mirror should contain all the packages.

The problem you see is more likely due to the fact that libjpeg62 is
an obsolete package,
So to see it on the "select packages" window list you need to unset
"hide obsolete packages" in the left down corner of the window .

>
> Sincerely
>
> Jørgen Steensgaard
>

Regards
Marco

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Re: Where to find a reliable provider of CygwinX?

[Jørgen Steensgaard]

Thanks Marco.  Below I react in-line to most of your questions.  My main 
point is the lack of distribution consistency I have reported on.

Jørgen

On 01/02/2011 16:45, marco atzeri wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Jørgen Steensgaard  wrote:
>> After having installed a basic version of Cygwin I wanted to install X and a
>> few programs that depend on it.  Using one mirror I thought I was doing
>> well, but no program X were found.  Somehow I got the information that xinit
>> was needed, but that I could not obtain from the mirror. So I found another
>> and lo-and-behold: I got xinit, X, and Xemacs.
>>
>>  From previous experience I knew that the X-server should be started somehow,
>> but I could not resist to call Xemacs right away.  And believe it or not: it
>> could not start, and complained about a missing cygjpeg-62.dll.  So back to
>> the provider to have a look for the package libjpeg-62, identified by a
>> lookup elsewhere.  But neither of the two providers had such a package, but
>> instead some different libjpeg-*. After having downloaded all of these, the
>> complaint came back again.
>
> the package is "libjpeg62"

Sorry for the added hypen.  I use another computer to send mail for the 
moment.

> http://cygwin.com/cgi-bin2/package-cat.cgi?file=libjpeg62%2Flibjpeg62-6b-21&grep=cygjpeg-62.dll
>
> are you sue that xemacs need cygjpeg-62.dll ?

Only to the extent that I can rely on the reaction to my attempt to run 
xemacs.

>
> on the setup.ini file it is reported libjpeg8
>
> @ emacs-X11
> sdesc: "X11 binaries for Emacs."
> ldesc: "This package contains the X11 binaries for emacs.  Install
> it if you want to run emacs using the X window system for
> display.  The binaries also can be used in non-X11 mode."
> category: Editors Interpreters
> requires: alternatives emacs font-adobe-dpi75 font-misc-misc libICE6
> libSM6 libX11_6 libXft2 libXpm4 libXrender1 libdbus1_3 libfontconfig1
> libfreetype6 libgcc1 libgdk_pixbuf2.0_0 libgif4 libglib2.0_0
> libgtk2.0_0 libjpeg8 libncursesw10 libpng12 libtiff5 cygwin
> version: 23.2-3
>
> what is the output of    "cygcheck emacs-X11.exe"  ?
>

   1. could not find emacs-X11.exe
   2. cygcheck xemacs-21.4.22.exe outputs several lines, one of which
      reads:
        cygcheck: track_down: could not find cygjpeg-62.dll

>>
>> So: please give me some advice on where to find a provider of all packages
>> and preferably also some about how packages have been tested for
>> completeness.
>
> any mirror should contain all the packages.

I agree that this should be the case, but experience that it is not. 
The absence of X and xinit from one provider and presence in another is 
more than annoying.

>
> The problem you see is more likely due to the fact that libjpeg62 is
> an obsolete package,
> So to see it on the "select packages" window list you need to unset
> "hide obsolete packages" in the left down corner of the window .

Thank you for a hint to work around this particular situation.  My main 
objective is to discuss distribution consistency.

>
>>
>> Sincerely
>>
>> Jørgen Steensgaard
>>
>
> Regards
> Marco
>




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Re: Where to find a reliable provider of CygwinX?

[Larry Hall (Cygwin)]

On 2/1/2011 11:26 AM, Jørgen Steensgaard wrote:
> On 01/02/2011 16:45, marco atzeri wrote:
>> On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Jørgen Steensgaard wrote:

<snip>

>>> So: please give me some advice on where to find a provider of all packages
>>> and preferably also some about how packages have been tested for
>>> completeness.
>>
>> any mirror should contain all the packages.
>
> I agree that this should be the case, but experience that it is not. The
> absence of X and xinit from one provider and presence in another is more than
> annoying.
>
>> The problem you see is more likely due to the fact that libjpeg62 is
>> an obsolete package,
>> So to see it on the "select packages" window list you need to unset
>> "hide obsolete packages" in the left down corner of the window .
>
> Thank you for a hint to work around this particular situation. My main
> objective is to discuss distribution consistency.

As you know, you get Cygwin from a mirror.  Mirrors are not controlled by
cygwin.com.  So if you're having trouble with a mirror or its content,
it's best to contact the mirror provider directly.  Otherwise you can email
Cygwin's sourcemaster.  But before doing any of that, please make sure that
the mirror you're choosing is on the list of active mirrors.  You can find
the list of active mirrors (which 'setup.exe' references) along with details
of how it's maintained here:

<http://cygwin.com/mirrors.html>

-- 
Larry

_____________________________________________________________________

A: Yes.
> Q: Are you sure?
>> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.
>>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email?

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Re: Where to find a reliable provider of CygwinX?

[Jørgen Steensgaard]

Thanks for the guidance.  But: yes, I refer to a provider on the list of 
mirrors found in setup.exe; and yes, I realise the difficulty to ensure 
consistency and the urge to put responsibilities on mirror owners.  Some 
mechanism of mirror authorisation is in my opinion needed.

Is the original distribution available to common users?  Or at least 
details of the contents? If not, I have no reference system and cannot 
identify derivations?

Do remember that the impressions left by inconsistencies will stick also 
on the original -- which is actually fair.

Jørgen

On 01/02/2011 17:40, Larry Hall (Cygwin) wrote:
> On 2/1/2011 11:26 AM, Jørgen Steensgaard wrote:
>> On 01/02/2011 16:45, marco atzeri wrote:
>>> On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Jørgen Steensgaard wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>>>> So: please give me some advice on where to find a provider of all
>>>> packages
>>>> and preferably also some about how packages have been tested for
>>>> completeness.
>>>
>>> any mirror should contain all the packages.
>>
>> I agree that this should be the case, but experience that it is not. The
>> absence of X and xinit from one provider and presence in another is
>> more than
>> annoying.
>>
>>> The problem you see is more likely due to the fact that libjpeg62 is
>>> an obsolete package,
>>> So to see it on the "select packages" window list you need to unset
>>> "hide obsolete packages" in the left down corner of the window .
>>
>> Thank you for a hint to work around this particular situation. My main
>> objective is to discuss distribution consistency.
>
> As you know, you get Cygwin from a mirror. Mirrors are not controlled by
> cygwin.com. So if you're having trouble with a mirror or its content,
> it's best to contact the mirror provider directly. Otherwise you can email
> Cygwin's sourcemaster. But before doing any of that, please make sure that
> the mirror you're choosing is on the list of active mirrors. You can find
> the list of active mirrors (which 'setup.exe' references) along with
> details
> of how it's maintained here:
>
> <http://cygwin.com/mirrors.html>
>




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Re: Where to find a reliable provider of CygwinX?

[Christopher Faylor]

On Tue, Feb 01, 2011 at 07:13:51PM +0100, J??rgen Steensgaard wrote:
>Thanks for the guidance.  But: yes, I refer to a provider on the list of 
>mirrors found in setup.exe; and yes, I realise the difficulty to ensure 
>consistency and the urge to put responsibilities on mirror owners.  Some 
>mechanism of mirror authorisation is in my opinion needed.

As previously mentioned, we already have that.

>Is the original distribution available to common users?  Or at least 
>details of the contents? If not, I have no reference system and cannot 
>identify derivations?
>
>Do remember that the impressions left by inconsistencies will stick also 
>on the original -- which is actually fair.

How about if we treat your problem as a support experience rather than a
call to redesign all of the mirror handling?

You have not provided such basic details as:

What, exactly, did you select when installing that would lead you to
believe that you should have had X programs installed?  What mirror did
you use?  What error message did you receive when you tried to install
xinit but found it unavailable?

I have a very hard time believing that you found official cygwin mirrors
which did not have the libjpeg62 package but, if you did, we'd certainly
like to know which ones are in error.

cgf

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Re: Where to find a reliable provider of CygwinX?

[Jørgen Steensgaard]

A previous reply informed me that libjpeg62 may be included as an 
obsolete package.  I have not checked that out, so the discussion 
including the following should be understood in that context.  I have 
not checked whether it actually is available that way.

I deliberately omitted the identity of the actual provider, since this 
mailinglist is so widely read.  Send me a private email-address and I 
shall provide you with the information.

The missing presence of X and xinit I experienced by use of 'which' and 
making certain that these were commands in a 1.5-version that is running 
on another computer.  In fact I looked in vain for a folder with 
binaries for X.  I then switched provider, used an unmodified selection 
of packages and checked that the two commands were present in a relevant 
folder.  I have not yet the X-server running.

I used the search facility of setup.exe with libjpeg to find packages, 
none of them showed libjpeg6.2 and subsequently checked with the 
complete name.  This was the behaviour observed with two different 
providers.  I was not aware of means to disclose obsolete packages.

Another experience that emerge from this discussion is that it seems 
very hard to be believed.  It is also very hard to document the details 
of what goes on during installation.  Please take than into account when
you take this as a support experience, which certainly is in line with 
my intentions.

Do not forget to send a non-mailinglist email-address for information 
about which providers I have experienced.  You may then decide, if the 
information should be published here.

You might of course also emphasize your doubts of my credibility, if you 
want to close the actual discussion.

Jørgen

On 01/02/2011 19:27, Christopher Faylor wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 01, 2011 at 07:13:51PM +0100, J??rgen Steensgaard wrote:
>> Thanks for the guidance.  But: yes, I refer to a provider on the list of
>> mirrors found in setup.exe; and yes, I realise the difficulty to ensure
>> consistency and the urge to put responsibilities on mirror owners.  Some
>> mechanism of mirror authorisation is in my opinion needed.
>
> As previously mentioned, we already have that.
>
>> Is the original distribution available to common users?  Or at least
>> details of the contents? If not, I have no reference system and cannot
>> identify derivations?
>>
>> Do remember that the impressions left by inconsistencies will stick also
>> on the original -- which is actually fair.
>
> How about if we treat your problem as a support experience rather than a
> call to redesign all of the mirror handling?
>
> You have not provided such basic details as:
>
> What, exactly, did you select when installing that would lead you to
> believe that you should have had X programs installed?  What mirror did
> you use?  What error message did you receive when you tried to install
> xinit but found it unavailable?
>
> I have a very hard time believing that you found official cygwin mirrors
> which did not have the libjpeg62 package but, if you did, we'd certainly
> like to know which ones are in error.
>
> cgf
>




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Re: Where to find a reliable provider of CygwinX?

[Jeremy Bopp]

On 2/1/2011 3:10 PM, Jørgen Steensgaard wrote:
> Another experience that emerge from this discussion is that it seems
> very hard to be believed.  It is also very hard to document the details
> of what goes on during installation.  Please take than into account when
> you take this as a support experience, which certainly is in line with
> my intentions.

Many if not most of setup's actions are recorded in log files in the
/var/log directory of your Cygwin installation.  Take a look at the
setup.log and setup.log.full files.  Among the information provided
there are the mirror(s) and package(s) you selected.  There are also
error messages which could be relevant to this discussion.

Unfortunately, I think the files are blown away and rewritten every time
you run setup.exe.

-Jeremy

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Re: Where to find a reliable provider of CygwinX?

[Christopher Faylor]

On Tue, Feb 01, 2011 at 10:10:40PM +0100, J?rgen Steensgaard wrote:
>A previous reply informed me that libjpeg62 may be included as an
>obsolete package.  I have not checked that out, so the discussion
>including the following should be understood in that context.  I have
>not checked whether it actually is available that way.

So, to translate:

Bug report: xemacs is relying on an obsolete dll.

Action Required:
Check with the xemacs package maintainer.

Also, try to track down why setup.exe didn't install the library
automatically.

>I deliberately omitted the identity of the actual provider, since this
>mailinglist is so widely read.  Send me a private email-address and I
>shall provide you with the information.

If there is a public mirror which needs to investigated then please send
it here.  No one's feelings will be hurt or reputation tarnished.
Again, please send the problematic mirrors here.

Translation:
Potential cockpit error or seriously screwed up mirror.

Action Required:
Determine exactly which mirrors were involved.  I will investigate once
those are known.

>The missing presence of X and xinit I experienced by use of 'which' and 
>making certain that these were commands in a 1.5-version that is running 
>on another computer.  In fact I looked in vain for a folder with 
>binaries for X.  I then switched provider, used an unmodified selection 
>of packages and checked that the two commands were present in a relevant 
>folder.  I have not yet the X-server running.

I can't say for sure if you know this or not but Cygwin/X is not
installed by default.  You have to specifically select it.  This is
why I'm asking for specific details about what you did to select X
applications.

Translation:
Potential cockpit error or seriously screwed up mirror.

Action Required:
Determine exactly which mirrors were involved.  I will investigate once
those are known.

>I used the search facility of setup.exe with libjpeg to find packages, 
>none of them showed libjpeg6.2 and subsequently checked with the 
>complete name.  This was the behaviour observed with two different 
>providers.  I was not aware of means to disclose obsolete packages.

Translation:
Bug report: You can't search for packages marked obsolete via setup.exe.

Action Required:
I'll ask some of the setup developers if that is by design.

>Another experience that emerge from this discussion is that it seems 
>very hard to be believed.  It is also very hard to document the details 
>of what goes on during installation.  Please take than into account when
>you take this as a support experience, which certainly is in line with 
>my intentions.

Third person usage aside, you're right.  We do not automatically
believe the *interpretation* of someone reporting problems since their
interpretation is likely to be inaccurate.  You don't have all of the
facts at your disposal.  I do have more than you so I don't
automatically believe you when you claim that a mirror is missing
packages.

For instance, you seem to be under the impression that X is installed by
default.  You also seem to think that the fact that you can't find
libjpeg62 via search in setup.exe means that a mirror is out-of-date
when it doesn't mean that.  It is likely another problem entirely.

This is why I'm asking for details - to help congeal what is actually
going wrong from your interpretation of what is going on.

cgf

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Re: Where to find a reliable provider of CygwinX?

[Jørgen Steensgaard]

I want to terminate this discussion, originating from my concern for 
consistency among distribution providers.

Originally I reported on a successful installation of basic Cygwin, i.e. 
without X, followed by a failing attempt to install X.  Of course I have 
been aware all the way that X did not come with the basic installation, 
and I have no idea of how to install X on top of it without using 
setup.exe by Cygwin.  Still I am asked to specify how I obtained the 
packages for X, because they are not part of the basic installation.

I see no reason to spend more time on this, the experience of which is 
like being part of an absurd comedy, to say it mildly.  I feel confident 
that I can overcome the technical issues if I use the time on them instead.

End of discussion.

Jørgen




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Re: Where to find a reliable provider of CygwinX?

[Thorsten Kampe]

* Jørgen Steensgaard (Wed, 02 Feb 2011 18:34:15 +0100)
> I want to terminate this discussion, originating from my concern for 
> consistency among distribution providers.
> 
> Originally I reported on a successful installation of basic Cygwin, i.e. 
> without X, followed by a failing attempt to install X.  Of course I have 
> been aware all the way that X did not come with the basic installation, 
> and I have no idea of how to install X on top of it without using 
> setup.exe by Cygwin.  Still I am asked to specify how I obtained the 
> packages for X, because they are not part of the basic installation.
> 
> I see no reason to spend more time on this, the experience of which is 
> like being part of an absurd comedy, to say it mildly.  I feel confident 
> that I can overcome the technical issues if I use the time on them instead.

You were asked simple and specific questions. You didn't bother to 
answer these questions. That's not absurd but rather sad.

Thorsten


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Re: Where to find a reliable provider of CygwinX?

[marco atzeri]

On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 5:26 PM, Jørgen Steensgaard wrote:
> Thanks Marco.  Below I react in-line to most of your questions.  My main
> point is the lack of distribution consistency I have reported on.
>
> Jørgen

I guess no one in the cygwin community could guarantee that a mirror
is complete all the time.
There is a periodic check and if a mirror is not in line is removed
from the list, but it is not fault proof.

I have not big problems on this side, probably you are just unlucky.

I notice that in reality we have both xemacs and emacs-x11 ,
and xemacs requires libjpeg62.

From setup.ini

@ xemacs
sdesc: "A powerful, highly customizable open source text editor and
application development system"
ldesc: "XEmacs is a powerful, highly customizable open source text editor and
[cut]
category: Editors Interpreters
requires: cygwin libcompface0 libX11_6 libXau6 libXaw3d7 libXft2
libXpm4 libaudio2 libdb4.5 libgmp3 libintl8 libjpeg62 libncurses8
libopenldap2_3_0 libpng12 libpq5 libtiff5

So the installation of xemacs should also pull libjpeg62

Marco

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Re: Where to find a reliable provider of CygwinX?

[Csaba Raduly]

Hi,

On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Jørgen Steensgaard  wrote:
> After having installed a basic version of Cygwin I wanted to install X and a
> few programs that depend on it.  Using one mirror I thought I was doing
> well, but no program X were found.

Under Cygwin, /usr/bin/X is a symlink to /usr/bin/XWin.exe :

http://cygwin.com/cgi-bin2/package-cat.cgi?file=xorg-server%2Fxorg-server-1.9.3-2&grep=XWin.exe

> Somehow I got the information that xinit
> was needed, but that I could not obtain from the mirror. So I found another
> and lo-and-behold: I got xinit, X, and Xemacs.

I find it hard to believe that downloading xinit would get you Xemacs.

> From previous experience I knew that the X-server should be started somehow,
> but I could not resist to call Xemacs right away.  And believe it or not: it
> could not start, and complained about a missing cygjpeg-62.dll.  So back to
> the provider to have a look for the package libjpeg-62, identified by a
> lookup elsewhere.  But neither of the two providers had such a package, but
> instead some different libjpeg-*. After having downloaded all of these, the
> complaint came back again.

Did you use Cygwin's setup.exe? If yes, what version?

> So: please give me some advice on where to find a provider of all packages

Have you tried http://www.cygwin.com/mirrors.html  ?

Also, don't forget:

> Problem reports:       http://cygwin.com/problems.html

Csaba
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