* [ECOS] TCP/IP Stack for eCos @ 1999-04-23 10:20 Fred Fierling 1999-04-23 12:10 ` Bob Cousins ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Fred Fierling @ 1999-04-23 10:20 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ecos-discuss Is anyone interested in working on an open TCP/IP stack for eCos? -- Fred Fierling Tel: +1 604 444-1717 Microplex Systems Ltd. Fax: +1 604 444-4239 8525 Commerce Court mailto:fff@microplex.com Burnaby, BC V5A 4N3 http://www.microplex.com/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [ECOS] TCP/IP Stack for eCos 1999-04-23 10:20 [ECOS] TCP/IP Stack for eCos Fred Fierling @ 1999-04-23 12:10 ` Bob Cousins 1999-04-23 13:27 ` Fred Fierling 1999-04-24 3:38 ` [ECOS] h800 porting looking for Paolo Torricelli 1999-04-26 7:02 ` [ECOS] TCP/IP Stack for eCos Bart Veer 2 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Bob Cousins @ 1999-04-23 12:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ecos-discuss Hi Fred Fierling, >Is anyone interested in working on an open TCP/IP stack >for eCos? I'm certainly interested, but I I don't think eCos is ported to any of the targets I'm interested in, so my first task is to do or wait for such ports. I would primarily be interested in using an OS like eCos for network applications, so it's chicken and egg! I recently worked on a TCP/IP stack for Hitachi processors using HI-OS (ITRON based OS), and got quite far developing it on a PC under Windows. The few OS calls the stack makes were handling by a library which made calls into Windows. There was no hardware emulation or pre-emptive tasking, but this was not a great problem. I wrote a PPP driver for it which could have used the PC serial port, but I ended up using an internal loopback. I studied various stacks around and although Unix stacks like BSD would be more robust and mature, if I was picking a free stack I'd take a close look at the Xinu stack. It has several bugs (which are partly documented), as it has not had the benefit of widespread support. Assuming you are going to have to read the RFCs and study other stacks anyway, it at least gives a step up on writing from scratch. -- Bob Cousins, Software Engineer. http://www.lintilla.demon.co.uk/ "We demand that we may, or may not, be philosophers!" ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [ECOS] TCP/IP Stack for eCos 1999-04-23 12:10 ` Bob Cousins @ 1999-04-23 13:27 ` Fred Fierling 1999-04-23 16:08 ` Bob Cousins 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Fred Fierling @ 1999-04-23 13:27 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bob Cousins; +Cc: ecos-discuss Bob Cousins wrote: > I studied various stacks around and although Unix stacks like BSD would be more > robust and mature, if I was picking a free stack I'd take a close look at the > Xinu stack. Is Xinu a zero copy stack (i.e. only passes pointers)? This is important because an RTOS often runs on wimpy hardware. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [ECOS] TCP/IP Stack for eCos 1999-04-23 13:27 ` Fred Fierling @ 1999-04-23 16:08 ` Bob Cousins 1999-04-23 17:56 ` Frank W. Miller 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Bob Cousins @ 1999-04-23 16:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ecos-discuss Hi Fred Fierling, >Is Xinu a zero copy stack (i.e. only passes pointers)? This is important >because an RTOS often runs on wimpy hardware. Ah, now we're talking requirements. Data buffering is a topic by itself ;-) Xinu isn't zero copy, but it is fairly easy to change. I designed a stack based around a flexible buffer structure similar to the Unix mbuf. Adding this type of thing to Xinu/TCP would be more work, changing all the references etc, rethinking the fragmentation/reassembly. The way I see it is that Xinu/TCP is a fairly close fit which more or less works and provides a fairly clean base architecture to work on, and would provide a quick way to get something working. (In comparison to other stacks I know of such as FreeBSD, Linux, KA9Q, WATTCP et al). This could then be developed to revise the architecture and implement better performance etc. I'm afraid I'm on sketchy ground here as I'm not familiar with eCos or its current targets. My typical requirement is for a networked data acquisition unit, ideally running SNMP, but at least capable of UDP over ethernet. A PC386 card is probably too expensive but the software would be easy for me to put together. Something smaller should do, the data acquisition is trivial, it could be done with a PIC and UDP at a stretch, but SNMP out of the question, so I'm thinking 8051 variant. Xinu is attractive because it is simple and has SNMP code too. Unfortunately I've little time or money to persue either vigorously at the moment, so this is a background activity. -- Bob Cousins, Software Engineer. http://www.lintilla.demon.co.uk/ "We demand that we may, or may not, be philosophers!" ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [ECOS] TCP/IP Stack for eCos 1999-04-23 16:08 ` Bob Cousins @ 1999-04-23 17:56 ` Frank W. Miller 0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Frank W. Miller @ 1999-04-23 17:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ecos-discuss; +Cc: Frank W. Miller > >Is Xinu a zero copy stack (i.e. only passes pointers)? This is important > >because an RTOS often runs on wimpy hardware. > XINU is not a zero copy stack. There are two copies on the way up and on the way down. > isn't zero copy, but it is fairly easy to change. I designed a stack based I would differ with you on this. Getting it right would not be a trivial task. > The way I see it is that Xinu/TCP is a fairly close fit which more or less > works and provides a fairly clean base architecture to work on, and would > provide a quick way to get something working. (In comparison to other stacks > I know of such as FreeBSD, Linux, KA9Q, WATTCP et al). This could then be > developed to revise the architecture and implement better performance etc. > All of these stacks are quite stable and work well. The *BSD stack is by far the highest performance platform and arguably the best documented in Wright and Stevens books. The others are all comparable since they do similar copying. KA9Q has probably the smallest footprint. You will probably want to look at the FreeBSD TCP port to RTEMS. A lot of the issues in moving that stack to an RTOS are addressed there. Later, FM -- Frank W. Miller Cornfed Systems Inc www.cornfed.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* [ECOS] h800 porting looking for 1999-04-23 10:20 [ECOS] TCP/IP Stack for eCos Fred Fierling 1999-04-23 12:10 ` Bob Cousins @ 1999-04-24 3:38 ` Paolo Torricelli 1999-04-27 8:12 ` [ECOS] " Bart Veer 1999-04-26 7:02 ` [ECOS] TCP/IP Stack for eCos Bart Veer 2 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Paolo Torricelli @ 1999-04-24 3:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ecos-discuss i'm considering to port ecos on hitachi h/800 maybe anyway already working on it? please feel free to email me thanks pt ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* [ECOS] Re: h800 porting looking for 1999-04-24 3:38 ` [ECOS] h800 porting looking for Paolo Torricelli @ 1999-04-27 8:12 ` Bart Veer 1999-04-28 0:17 ` Paolo Torricelli 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Bart Veer @ 1999-04-27 8:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ptorric; +Cc: ecos-discuss >>>>> "Paolo" == Paolo Torricelli <ptorric@tsc4.com> writes: Paolo> i'm considering to port ecos on hitachi h/800 Paolo> maybe anyway already working on it? Paolo> please feel free to email me A port to the h8/300 involves some complications, and I am not aware of anybody currently working on one. A port by Cygnus is not currently under consideration. The problem is in the toolchain: as I understand it there is no g++ support for the h8/300, only gcc support; also ELF object format is not yet supported for the h8, and some of the compiler facilities used within eCos currently only work with ELF. Before starting any eCos port to the h8 it would be necessary to sort out these issues. Bart Veer // eCos net maintainer ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [ECOS] Re: h800 porting looking for 1999-04-27 8:12 ` [ECOS] " Bart Veer @ 1999-04-28 0:17 ` Paolo Torricelli 1999-04-28 4:42 ` Bart Veer 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Paolo Torricelli @ 1999-04-28 0:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: bartv; +Cc: ecos-discuss > Paolo> i'm considering to port ecos on hitachi h/800 >The problem is in the toolchain: as I understand it there is no g++ >support for the h8/300, only gcc support; also ELF object format is At the present i'm using gcc by Cygnus as distributed in Hitachi cd-rom I must understand why Ecos is maded with g++. In my long years of computer activity i know (on my shink) that there is no way to port anything if it isn't maded in simple (and very simple) C. Anyway maybe i can consider to port gnu tools...maybe to adopt another OS. This is not polemic, only a real topic sorry ciao pt ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* [ECOS] Re: h800 porting looking for 1999-04-28 0:17 ` Paolo Torricelli @ 1999-04-28 4:42 ` Bart Veer 0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Bart Veer @ 1999-04-28 4:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ptorric; +Cc: ecos-discuss >>>>> "Paolo" == Paolo Torricelli <ptorric@tsc4.com> writes: Paolo> i'm considering to port ecos on hitachi h/800 >> The problem is in the toolchain: as I understand it there is no g++ >> support for the h8/300, only gcc support; also ELF object format is Paolo> At the present i'm using gcc by Cygnus as distributed in Paolo> Hitachi cd-rom I must understand why Ecos is maded with Paolo> g++. In my long years of computer activity i know (on my Paolo> shink) that there is no way to port anything if it isn't Paolo> maded in simple (and very simple) C. Anyway maybe i can Paolo> consider to port gnu tools...maybe to adopt another OS. Paolo> This is not polemic, only a real topic sorry It is a valid point, and the decision to use C++ for eCos rather than ISO C was not an easy one. Another controversial decision we made early on was to tie eCos to the GNU tools, making it very difficult to use any other compiler technology. C++ is the more powerful language of the two, even if some aspects of the language such as exception handling usually cannot be used in an embedded system because of code size issues. In terms of availability, these days there are very few toolchains where gcc is available but not g++ - the extra amount of work involved is supposedly quite small, although I am not an expert on the internals of the tools. The h8/300 is the exception rather than the rule. If there is sufficient demand than either somebody will contribute the necessary support or some major player (possibly Hitachi, possibly a company that wants to use the h8 in a big project) will pay for the work to be done. Bart Veer // eCos net maintainer ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [ECOS] TCP/IP Stack for eCos 1999-04-23 10:20 [ECOS] TCP/IP Stack for eCos Fred Fierling 1999-04-23 12:10 ` Bob Cousins 1999-04-24 3:38 ` [ECOS] h800 porting looking for Paolo Torricelli @ 1999-04-26 7:02 ` Bart Veer 1999-04-27 6:01 ` Fernando D. Mato Mira 2 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Bart Veer @ 1999-04-26 7:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: fff; +Cc: ecos-discuss >>>>> "Fred" == Fred Fierling <fff@microplex.com> writes: Fred> Is anyone interested in working on an open TCP/IP stack for Fred> eCos? Cygnus would very much like to see this happen. If nobody else does it then sooner or later we will end up doing a port of a suitable stack ourselves, but right now we are busy porting to various processors and have little spare bandwidth. However we should be able to assist any net effort, and several of the team members have experience with embedded TCP/IP stacks. Bart Veer // eCos net maintainer ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [ECOS] TCP/IP Stack for eCos 1999-04-26 7:02 ` [ECOS] TCP/IP Stack for eCos Bart Veer @ 1999-04-27 6:01 ` Fernando D. Mato Mira 1999-04-27 11:08 ` Fred Fierling 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Fernando D. Mato Mira @ 1999-04-27 6:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ecos-discuss At 03:02 PM 4/26/99 +0100, you wrote: >>>>>> "Fred" == Fred Fierling <fff@microplex.com> writes: > > Fred> Is anyone interested in working on an open TCP/IP stack for > Fred> eCos? We are looking around right now because we want to have an embedded TCP/IP stack usable in a variety of contexts, particularly on raw processors/controllers/DSPs w/o an OS, and in cases where malloc is explicitly and formally forbidden. If such an effort were covered by a BSD-style license we would very probably join in. Fernando D. Mato Mira Real-Time SW Engineering & Networking Advanced Systems Engineering Division CSEM - Centre Suisse d'Electronique et de Microtechnique Jaquet-Droz 1 Email: matomira AT acm DOT org CH-2007 Neuchatel Phone: +41 (32) 720-5157 Switzerland FAX: +41 (32) 720-5720 http://www.csem.ch/ http://www.vrai.com/ http://ligwww.epfl.ch/matomira.html ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [ECOS] TCP/IP Stack for eCos 1999-04-27 6:01 ` Fernando D. Mato Mira @ 1999-04-27 11:08 ` Fred Fierling 0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Fred Fierling @ 1999-04-27 11:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: egcs; +Cc: ecos-discuss "Fernando D. Mato Mira" wrote: > We are looking around right now because we want to have an embedded > TCP/IP stack usable in a variety of contexts, particularly on raw processors/controllers/DSPs > w/o an OS, and in cases where malloc is explicitly and formally forbidden. A TCP stack that doesn't use malloc? Interesting. Do you forbid malloc to avoid problems like memory leaks, to guarantee response time, or why? -- Fred Fierling Tel: +1 604 444-1717 Microplex Systems Ltd. Fax: +1 604 444-4239 8525 Commerce Court mailto:fff@microplex.com Burnaby, BC V5A 4N3 http://www.microplex.com/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~1999-04-28 4:42 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 12+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 1999-04-23 10:20 [ECOS] TCP/IP Stack for eCos Fred Fierling 1999-04-23 12:10 ` Bob Cousins 1999-04-23 13:27 ` Fred Fierling 1999-04-23 16:08 ` Bob Cousins 1999-04-23 17:56 ` Frank W. Miller 1999-04-24 3:38 ` [ECOS] h800 porting looking for Paolo Torricelli 1999-04-27 8:12 ` [ECOS] " Bart Veer 1999-04-28 0:17 ` Paolo Torricelli 1999-04-28 4:42 ` Bart Veer 1999-04-26 7:02 ` [ECOS] TCP/IP Stack for eCos Bart Veer 1999-04-27 6:01 ` Fernando D. Mato Mira 1999-04-27 11:08 ` Fred Fierling
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