[ECOS] HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[ECOS] HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[Grant Edwards]

FWIW, I've finally collected and documented some stuff I've used over
the past couple years for testing eCos code using the QEMU emulator:

  http://www.panix.com/~grante/eCos-on-QEMU.html

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! ... or were you
                                  at               driving the PONTIAC that
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                                                   Tuesday?


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Re: [ECOS] HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[Drasko DRASKOVIC]

Hi Grant,
thanks for your interesting work.

Several months ago I was looking for a way to run eCos and above all
RedBoot on Qemu-ARM. None of the boards supported by eCos seems to be
present in qemu, and vice versa.
I still have not find the way it can be done.

Are you maybe aware of a way we could run similar thing you made, but
with ARM (or MIPS) architecture ?

Other question is does your runit.sh script now works with Grub 2 ? I
remember using it before and I had a problems with ElToritoStage2 as
it was changed in Grub 2 comparing to previous Grub version...

Best regards,
Drasko




On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 1:37 AM, Grant Edwards
<grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> wrote:
> FWIW, I've finally collected and documented some stuff I've used over
> the past couple years for testing eCos code using the QEMU emulator:
>
>  http://www.panix.com/~grante/eCos-on-QEMU.html
>
> --
> Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! ... or were you
>                                  at               driving the PONTIAC that
>                              gmail.com            HONKED at me in MIAMI last
>                                                   Tuesday?
>
>
> --
> Before posting, please read the FAQ: http://ecos.sourceware.org/fom/ecos
> and search the list archive: http://ecos.sourceware.org/ml/ecos-discuss
>
>

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Re: [ECOS] HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[Stanislav Meduna]

On 24.03.2011 01:37, Grant Edwards wrote:

>   http://www.panix.com/~grante/eCos-on-QEMU.html

Thanks, this is an interesting work. I tried this with
VMWare and VirtualBox and I did not succeed because
of eCos calling something in the disk layer the two
do not implement
(http://www.mail-archive.com/ecos-discuss@ecos.sourceware.org/msg11944.html).

Let's see whether QEMU understand it (at least one can
fix it if it does not). Maybe you already tried it
(enabling CYGSEM_REDBOOT_DISK_IDE was enough to trigger
this in my environment)?


Out of curiosity, is there a - QEMU or not, free or not
but affordable - emulator capable of emulating
a minimal Cortex-M3 system with its Thumb-2 instruction
set?

Part of our work is a JIT compiler and such tool would
greatly help us in debugging and (automatic) testing.

Thanks
-- 
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Re: [ECOS] HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[Drasko DRASKOVIC]

Hi Stanislav,
I do not know if it has what you are looking for, but maybe you can
take a look for a SystemC cycle accurate models/simulators here
(completely GNU licensed) :
http://www.soclib.fr/trac/dev
and here (free to use, but has some limitations in licence) :
http://www.ovpworld.org/

Can you also keep us informed about your observations and impressions,
as I do not have so much time to go in the details about these
simulators, so your insight and digest version could be beneficial.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,
Drasko

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 11:59 AM, Stanislav Meduna <stano@meduna.org> wrote:
> On 24.03.2011 01:37, Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>>   http://www.panix.com/~grante/eCos-on-QEMU.html
>
> Thanks, this is an interesting work. I tried this with
> VMWare and VirtualBox and I did not succeed because
> of eCos calling something in the disk layer the two
> do not implement
> (http://www.mail-archive.com/ecos-discuss@ecos.sourceware.org/msg11944.html).
>
> Let's see whether QEMU understand it (at least one can
> fix it if it does not). Maybe you already tried it
> (enabling CYGSEM_REDBOOT_DISK_IDE was enough to trigger
> this in my environment)?
>
>
> Out of curiosity, is there a - QEMU or not, free or not
> but affordable - emulator capable of emulating
> a minimal Cortex-M3 system with its Thumb-2 instruction
> set?
>
> Part of our work is a JIT compiler and such tool would
> greatly help us in debugging and (automatic) testing.
>
> Thanks
> --
>                                  Stano
>
> --
> Before posting, please read the FAQ: http://ecos.sourceware.org/fom/ecos
> and search the list archive: http://ecos.sourceware.org/ml/ecos-discuss
>
>

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Re: [ECOS] HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[Stanislav Meduna]

On 24.03.2011 12:11, Drasko DRASKOVIC wrote:

> I do not know if it has what you are looking for, but maybe you can
> take a look for a SystemC cycle accurate models/simulators here
> (completely GNU licensed) :
> http://www.soclib.fr/trac/dev

Unfortunately no Thumb-2 yet.

> and here (free to use, but has some limitations in licence) :
> http://www.ovpworld.org/

This looks good and I'll take a look into this.

However, according to http://www.imperas.com/licenses
licenses for commercial use start at $300 / month / seat,
which is probably interesting if one develops for hardware
that does not physically exist yet, but for $300-$600
we can usually get the real hardware...

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Re: [ECOS] HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[Drasko DRASKOVIC]

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Stanislav Meduna <stano@meduna.org> wrote:
> On 24.03.2011 12:11, Drasko DRASKOVIC wrote:
>
>> I do not know if it has what you are looking for, but maybe you can
>> take a look for a SystemC cycle accurate models/simulators here
>> (completely GNU licensed) :
>> http://www.soclib.fr/trac/dev
>
> Unfortunately no Thumb-2 yet.

You can contact people from SocLIB, maybe it is not so difficult to
implement... Code is open.


>> and here (free to use, but has some limitations in licence) :
>> http://www.ovpworld.org/
>
> This looks good and I'll take a look into this.
>
> However, according to http://www.imperas.com/licenses
> licenses for commercial use start at $300 / month / seat,
> which is probably interesting if one develops for hardware
> that does not physically exist yet, but for $300-$600
> we can usually get the real hardware...

Not if you building your own SoC. In any case, should be free for
non-commercial use, so you can experiment.

BR,
Drasko

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[ECOS] Re: HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[Grant Edwards]

On 2011-03-24, Drasko DRASKOVIC <drasko.draskovic@gmail.com> wrote:

> Several months ago I was looking for a way to run eCos and above all
> RedBoot on Qemu-ARM. None of the boards supported by eCos seems to be
> present in qemu, and vice versa.

I looked into that a year or two back and came to the same conclusion.
It probably woldn't be hard to port eCos to one of the boards that is
supported by Qemu, but I didn't see much point in that when it runs on
the 386 Qemu target.

> Are you maybe aware of a way we could run similar thing you made, but
> with ARM (or MIPS) architecture?

There are patches for Qemu that allow you to run eCos for Atmel
AT91SAM9263 on Qemu:

http://bugs.ecos.sourceware.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1000819
https://github.com/Dushistov/qemu_at91sam9263

> Other question is does your runit.sh script now works with Grub 2?

I've never tried it with Grub2.

> I remember using it before and I had a problems with ElToritoStage2
> as it was changed in Grub 2 comparing to previous Grub version...

I've never heard anything good about Grub2.  It's reported to be huge,
bloated, and difficult to install and use. I did install it once on a
Mac Mini, and it's not someting I'm looking forward to ever using.

I have tried running eCos programs build for floppy startup, but I've
never been able to get that to work.

-- 
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                                  at               as a modern person.  I want
                              gmail.com            to do the Latin Hustle now!


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Re: [ECOS] Re: HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[Drasko DRASKOVIC]

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Grant Edwards
<grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've never tried it with Grub2.
>
>> I remember using it before and I had a problems with ElToritoStage2
>> as it was changed in Grub 2 comparing to previous Grub version...
>
> I've never heard anything good about Grub2.  It's reported to be huge,
> bloated, and difficult to install and use. I did install it once on a
> Mac Mini, and it's not someting I'm looking forward to ever using.

Well, I think it would be good to take a look at this, because it
might be something easy to fix in your script but for the time being
it does not work with Grub2, and Grub2 is becoming standard on all
newer distros. But that's just my $0.02.

>
> I have tried running eCos programs build for floppy startup, but I've
> never been able to get that to work.

I've seen the same problem running qemu that I apt-get in my Debian
distro. It's buggy qemu. When I compiled from the source it started
working.

BR,
Drasko

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[ECOS] Re: HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[Grant Edwards]

On 2011-03-24, Drasko DRASKOVIC <drasko.draskovic@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Grant Edwards
><grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I've never tried it with Grub2.
>>
>>> I remember using it before and I had a problems with ElToritoStage2
>>> as it was changed in Grub 2 comparing to previous Grub version...
>>
>> I've never heard anything good about Grub2. ?It's reported to be huge,
>> bloated, and difficult to install and use. I did install it once on a
>> Mac Mini, and it's not someting I'm looking forward to ever using.
>
> Well, I think it would be good to take a look at this, because it
> might be something easy to fix in your script but for the time being
> it does not work with Grub2, and Grub2 is becoming standard on all
> newer distros.

I'll add a working copy of legacy-grub's el-torito stage2 to the
tarball.

>> I have tried running eCos programs build for floppy startup, but I've
>> never been able to get that to work.
>
> I've seen the same problem running qemu that I apt-get in my Debian
> distro. It's buggy qemu. When I compiled from the source it started
> working.

I build Qemu from sources, and I still can't get floppy startup to
work, but I haven't spent much time looking into the problem.

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                                  at               co-pilot ...
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[ECOS] Re: HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[Grant Edwards]

On 2011-03-24, Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2011-03-24, Drasko DRASKOVIC <drasko.draskovic@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Grant Edwards
>><grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I've never tried it with Grub2.
>>>
>>>> I remember using it before and I had a problems with ElToritoStage2
>>>> as it was changed in Grub 2 comparing to previous Grub version...
>>>
>>> I've never heard anything good about Grub2. It's reported to be huge,
>>> bloated, and difficult to install and use. I did install it once on a
>>> Mac Mini, and it's not someting I'm looking forward to ever using.
>>
>> Well, I think it would be good to take a look at this, because it
>> might be something easy to fix in your script but for the time being
>> it does not work with Grub2, and Grub2 is becoming standard on all
>> newer distros.
>
> I'll add a working copy of legacy-grub's el-torito stage2 to the
> tarball.

I've added the required el-torito loader to the tarball, so the
runit.sh script no longer depends on the user having Grub installed.

It would be simpler if floppy-boot mode would work: there would be no
need to create an ISO image, which requires something like grub to
load the application. But, since I do have something that works, I
don't have a lot of motivation to figure out what's wrong with the
floppy startup mode. :)

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                                  at               really BOILS my BLOOD
                              gmail.com            ... He's so ... so
                                                   ... URGENT!!


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Re: [ECOS] Re: HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[Drasko DRASKOVIC]

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Grant Edwards
<grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2011-03-24, Drasko DRASKOVIC <drasko.draskovic@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Several months ago I was looking for a way to run eCos and above all
>> RedBoot on Qemu-ARM. None of the boards supported by eCos seems to be
>> present in qemu, and vice versa.
>
> I looked into that a year or two back and came to the same conclusion.
> It probably woldn't be hard to port eCos to one of the boards that is
> supported by Qemu, but I didn't see much point in that when it runs on
> the 386 Qemu target.

Point is that writing eCos applications is relatively easy task
comparing to low-level porting.
Any student can use eCos native Linux synthetic target
(http://ecos.sourceware.org/ecos/boards/linuxsynth.html) and write
eCos application for PC.

However, when you want to study kernel internals, to change boot code
and HAL, to do low-level system programming you are obliged to have
real hardware. And that sucks with eCos - because there are no good
emulators nor simulators for the worlds most popular architectures
like ARM or MIPS.

You take UBoot, Linux or any other bigger similar project - works out
of the box with qemu-system-XXX, and it is a pleasure and a joy to
learn. It would be great if we could have something like this with
eCos.


BR,
Drasko

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[ECOS] Re: HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[John Dallaway]

Hi Grant

Grant Edwards wrote:

> It would be simpler if floppy-boot mode would work: there would be no
> need to create an ISO image, which requires something like grub to
> load the application. But, since I do have something that works, I
> don't have a lot of motivation to figure out what's wrong with the
> floppy startup mode. :)

I have always found it necessary to pad the disk image to 1440KiB when
using CYG_HAL_STARTUP == "FLOPPY" with QEMU. Ref:

  http://www.codeconfidence.com/technote-0002.shtml

John Dallaway

-- 
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http://www.codeconfidence.com

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Re: [ECOS] Re: HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[Drasko DRASKOVIC]

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 5:43 PM, John Dallaway <jld@codeconfidence.com> wrote:
> I have always found it necessary to pad the disk image to 1440KiB when
> using CYG_HAL_STARTUP == "FLOPPY" with QEMU. Ref:
>
>  http://www.codeconfidence.com/technote-0002.shtml

Hi John,
why is this necessary ?

BR,
Drasko

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[ECOS] Re: HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[Grant Edwards]

On 2011-03-24, Drasko DRASKOVIC <drasko.draskovic@gmail.com> wrote:

> However, when you want to study kernel internals, to change boot code
> and HAL, to do low-level system programming you are obliged to have
> real hardware. And that sucks with eCos - because there are no good
> emulators nor simulators for the worlds most popular architectures
> like ARM or MIPS.

I see.

> You take UBoot, Linux or any other bigger similar project - works out
> of the box with qemu-system-XXX, and it is a pleasure and a joy to
> learn. It would be great if we could have something like this with
> eCos.

Since there is an ARM Integrator eCos port and Qemu supports some
flavor of the ARM Integrator, that would be the first one I'd look at.

-- 
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                                  at               RUNNING...
                              gmail.com            


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Re: [ECOS] Re: HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[Sergei Gavrikov]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: TEXT/PLAIN, Size: 715 bytes --]

On Thu, 24 Mar 2011, Drasko DRASKOVIC wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 5:43 PM, John Dallaway <jld@codeconfidence.com> wrote:
> > I have always found it necessary to pad the disk image to 1440KiB when
> > using CYG_HAL_STARTUP == "FLOPPY" with QEMU. Ref:
> >
> >  http://www.codeconfidence.com/technote-0002.shtml
> 
> Hi John,
> why is this necessary ?

Hi,

I tried with qemu 360/720/1440/2880KiB images. It's possible to boot
RedBoot[FLOPPY] with those standard images. I wrote also a memo for
myself by the topic: http://tickling.bitbucket.org/ecosonqemu.txt I do
not use tun/tap, just Qemu's CL options to manage virtual network
Also, I use pseudo-tty and minicom as well to iteract with RedBoot.

Sergei


[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 148 bytes --]

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Re: [ECOS] Re: HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[Drasko DRASKOVIC]

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 6:06 PM, Grant Edwards
<grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2011-03-24, Drasko DRASKOVIC <drasko.draskovic@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> However, when you want to study kernel internals, to change boot code
>> and HAL, to do low-level system programming you are obliged to have
>> real hardware. And that sucks with eCos - because there are no good
>> emulators nor simulators for the worlds most popular architectures
>> like ARM or MIPS.
>
> I see.
>
>> You take UBoot, Linux or any other bigger similar project - works out
>> of the box with qemu-system-XXX, and it is a pleasure and a joy to
>> learn. It would be great if we could have something like this with
>> eCos.
>
> Since there is an ARM Integrator eCos port and Qemu supports some
> flavor of the ARM Integrator, that would be the first one I'd look at.

I saw that there exists Versatile board support in eCos :
http://www.ecoscentric.com/ecospro/doc.cgi/html/ecospro-ref/hal-arm-vpb926ejs-part.html

However, they do not want to contribute it to the community :
http://www.spinics.net/lists/ecos/msg39278.html

BR,
Drasko

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[ECOS] Re: HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[Grant Edwards]

On 2011-03-24, John Dallaway <jld@codeconfidence.com> wrote:
> Hi Grant
>
> Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> It would be simpler if floppy-boot mode would work: there would be no
>> need to create an ISO image, which requires something like grub to
>> load the application. But, since I do have something that works, I
>> don't have a lot of motivation to figure out what's wrong with the
>> floppy startup mode. :)
>
> I have always found it necessary to pad the disk image to 1440KiB when
> using CYG_HAL_STARTUP == "FLOPPY" with QEMU. Ref:
>
>   http://www.codeconfidence.com/technote-0002.shtml

I see you pad to 0x16b000 (1452K) where does that number come from?

Yep, that's it.  I should have thought of that.  Padding to 2880KiB
also works, but since RAM is limited to 640K, that's probably moot.

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Re: [ECOS] Re: HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[Sergei Gavrikov]

On Thu, 24 Mar 2011, Grant Edwards wrote:

> On 2011-03-24, John Dallaway <jld@codeconfidence.com> wrote:
> > Hi Grant
> >
> > Grant Edwards wrote:
> >
> >> It would be simpler if floppy-boot mode would work: there would be no
> >> need to create an ISO image, which requires something like grub to
> >> load the application. But, since I do have something that works, I
> >> don't have a lot of motivation to figure out what's wrong with the
> >> floppy startup mode. :)
> >
> > I have always found it necessary to pad the disk image to 1440KiB when
> > using CYG_HAL_STARTUP == "FLOPPY" with QEMU. Ref:
> >
> >   http://www.codeconfidence.com/technote-0002.shtml
> 
> I see you pad to 0x16b000 (1452K) where does that number come from?
 
Hm, my is 0x168000. I use 'dd' to create the floppy images

What 1.44M Floppy is?

  $ tclsh
  % format {%1$d or %1$#x} [expr int(1024*1000*1.44)]
  1474560 or 0x168000
  % exit
  $ _

  $ dd if=install/bin/redboot.bin of=redboot_pc_rltk8139.flp conv=notrunc,sync count=1 bs=$(( 1024*1440 ))
  0+1 records in
  1+0 records out
  1474560 bytes (1.5 MB) copied, 0.00805096 s, 183 MB/s
  $ _


> Yep, that's it.  I should have thought of that.  Padding to 2880KiB
> also works, but since RAM is limited to 640K, that's probably moot.

Also it's useful

    # Load into higher memory (2MB)
    # This option enables building RAM applications
    # which have a start address outside of the area
    # used by redboot_GRUB.
    #
    cdl_option CYGHWR_HAL_I386_PC_LOAD_HIGH {
        user_value 1
    };



Sergei

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Re: [ECOS] Re: HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[Sergei Gavrikov]

On Thu, 24 Mar 2011, Sergei Gavrikov wrote:

> On Thu, 24 Mar 2011, Grant Edwards wrote:
> 
> > On 2011-03-24, John Dallaway <jld@codeconfidence.com> wrote:
> > > Hi Grant
> > >
> > > Grant Edwards wrote:
> > >
> > >> It would be simpler if floppy-boot mode would work: there would be no
> > >> need to create an ISO image, which requires something like grub to
> > >> load the application. But, since I do have something that works, I
> > >> don't have a lot of motivation to figure out what's wrong with the
> > >> floppy startup mode. :)
> > >
> > > I have always found it necessary to pad the disk image to 1440KiB when
> > > using CYG_HAL_STARTUP == "FLOPPY" with QEMU. Ref:
> > >
> > >   http://www.codeconfidence.com/technote-0002.shtml
> > 
> > I see you pad to 0x16b000 (1452K) where does that number come from?
>  
> Hm, my is 0x168000. I use 'dd' to create the floppy images
> 
> What 1.44M Floppy is?
> 
>   $ tclsh
>   % format {%1$d or %1$#x} [expr int(1024*1000*1.44)]
>   1474560 or 0x168000
>   % exit
>   $ _
> 
>   $ dd if=install/bin/redboot.bin of=redboot_pc_rltk8139.flp conv=notrunc,sync count=1 bs=$(( 1024*1440 ))
>   0+1 records in
>   1+0 records out
>   1474560 bytes (1.5 MB) copied, 0.00805096 s, 183 MB/s
>   $ _
 
The below is ever more elegant

$ qemu-img create /tmp/floppy.img 1440k
Formatting '/tmp/floppy.img', fmt=raw size=1474560 

$ dd if=/tmp/floppy.img of=/dev/null
2880+0 records in
2880+0 records out
1474560 bytes (1.5 MB) copied, 0.00541005 s, 273 MB/s

So, use 'qemu-img'.

Sergei

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[ECOS] Re: HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[Grant Edwards]

On 2011-03-24, Sergei Gavrikov <sergei.gavrikov@gmail.com> wrote:

>>   $ dd if=install/bin/redboot.bin of=redboot_pc_rltk8139.flp conv=notrunc,sync count=1 bs=$(( 1024*1440 ))

> The below is ever more elegant

> $ qemu-img create /tmp/floppy.img 1440k

> So, use 'qemu-img'.

I don't understand how your solution gets the eCos/redboot binary into
the image.

I like John's solution best:

i386-elf-objcopy -O binary --pad-to=$((1440*1024)) redboot.elf floppy.bin

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Re: [ECOS] Re: HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[Sergei Gavrikov]

On Thu, 24 Mar 2011, Grant Edwards wrote:

> On 2011-03-24, Sergei Gavrikov <sergei.gavrikov@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >>   $ dd if=install/bin/redboot.bin of=redboot_pc_rltk8139.flp conv=notrunc,sync count=1 bs=$(( 1024*1440 ))
> 
> > The below is ever more elegant
> 
> > $ qemu-img create /tmp/floppy.img 1440k
> 
> > So, use 'qemu-img'.
> 
> I don't understand how your solution gets the eCos/redboot binary into
> the image.
 
$ dd install/bin/redboot.bin of=/tmp/floppy.img conv=notrunc

> I like John's solution best:
> 
> i386-elf-objcopy -O binary --pad-to=$((1440*1024)) redboot.elf floppy.bin

a matter of a test (I sure that I'll forget '--pad-to' then and I do
not forget dd's options never :-)

and they have to have ELF image and binutils for the target to create
image.


Sergei

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[ECOS] Re: HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[Grant Edwards]

On 2011-03-24, Sergei Gavrikov <sergei.gavrikov@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Mar 2011, Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> On 2011-03-24, Sergei Gavrikov <sergei.gavrikov@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> >>   $ dd if=install/bin/redboot.bin of=redboot_pc_rltk8139.flp conv=notrunc,sync count=1 bs=$(( 1024*1440 ))
>> 
>> > The below is ever more elegant
>> 
>> > $ qemu-img create /tmp/floppy.img 1440k
>> 
>> > So, use 'qemu-img'.
>> 
>> I don't understand how your solution gets the eCos/redboot binary into
>> the image.
>  
> $ dd install/bin/redboot.bin of=/tmp/floppy.img conv=notrunc

Yep, I missed that.

>> I like John's solution best:
>> 
>> i386-elf-objcopy -O binary --pad-to=$((1440*1024)) redboot.elf floppy.bin
>
> a matter of a test (I sure that I'll forget '--pad-to' then and I do
> not forget dd's options never :-)
>
> and they have to have ELF image and binutils for the target to create
> image.

True, but how do you create a binary image without binutils and the
elf image?

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Re: [ECOS] Re: HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[Sergei Gavrikov]

On Thu, 24 Mar 2011, Grant Edwards wrote:

> True, but how do you create a binary image without binutils and the
> elf image?

I did mean: anyone can distribute 'super-app.bin' and offer to use it
with Qemu. So, tools would be Qemu and app.bin. Well, it' better to
share floppy image, i.e. super-app.flp.7z.

Grant, I have nothing against binutils :-)

Sergei

PS

Grant, John, other, 

thank you for your white papers and your tips and experience.

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[ECOS] Re: HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[Grant Edwards]

On 2011-03-24, Sergei Gavrikov <sergei.gavrikov@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Mar 2011, Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> True, but how do you create a binary image without binutils and the
>> elf image?
>
> I did mean: anyone can distribute 'super-app.bin' and offer to use it
> with Qemu.

Ah, it never occurred to me that sombeody who's not doing development
would want to run eCos stuff on Qemu.

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[ECOS] Re: HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[John Dallaway]

Hi Drasko

Drasko DRASKOVIC wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 5:43 PM, John Dallaway <jld@codeconfidence.com> wrote:
>> I have always found it necessary to pad the disk image to 1440KiB when
>> using CYG_HAL_STARTUP == "FLOPPY" with QEMU. Ref:
>>
>>  http://www.codeconfidence.com/technote-0002.shtml
> 
> Hi John,
> why is this necessary ?

QEMU emulates a floppy disk controller. I expect it is rejecting disk
image files of non-standard size while checking the disk geometry.

John Dallaway

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[ECOS] Re: HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[John Dallaway]

Hi Grant

Grant Edwards wrote:

> On 2011-03-24, John Dallaway <jld@codeconfidence.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Grant
>>
>> Grant Edwards wrote:
>>
>>> It would be simpler if floppy-boot mode would work: there would be no
>>> need to create an ISO image, which requires something like grub to
>>> load the application. But, since I do have something that works, I
>>> don't have a lot of motivation to figure out what's wrong with the
>>> floppy startup mode. :)
>> 
>> I have always found it necessary to pad the disk image to 1440KiB when
>> using CYG_HAL_STARTUP == "FLOPPY" with QEMU. Ref:
>>
>>   http://www.codeconfidence.com/technote-0002.shtml
> 
> I see you pad to 0x16b000 (1452K) where does that number come from?

The parameter is an address, not a file length. This is discussed a
little later in the technical note.

John Dallaway

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Re: [ECOS] Re: HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[Sergei Gavrikov]

On Thu, 24 Mar 2011, Grant Edwards wrote:

> On 2011-03-24, Sergei Gavrikov <sergei.gavrikov@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, 24 Mar 2011, Grant Edwards wrote:
> >
> >> True, but how do you create a binary image without binutils and the
> >> elf image?
> >
> > I did mean: anyone can distribute 'super-app.bin' and offer to use it
> > with Qemu.
> 
> Ah, it never occurred to me that sombeody who's not doing development
> would want to run eCos stuff on Qemu.

It is what is discuss-lists for :-)

Well, community knows about booting eCos applications with GRUB and
RedBoot[FLOPPY]+GDB on Qemu. It seems to me that it is good to know that
since Qemu 0.14 it is possible to use the built-in Qemu's tftp-server
with RedBoot

% qemu -S ... -serial pty -tftp `pwd`/install/tests/kernel/current/tests
char device redirected to /dev/pts/2
QEMU 0.14.50 monitor - type 'help' for more information
(qemu)

% minicom -o -D /dev/pts/2 -p pts/2

(qemu) c

[minicom]
...
Platform: PC (I386)                                                             
RAM: 0x00000000-0x000a0000 [0x0008a030-0x000a0000 available]                    
RedBoot> load bin_sem0
Using default protocol (TFTP)                                                   
Entry point: 0x00108000, address range: 0x00108000-0x0010d820                   
RedBoot> go                                                                     
PASS:<Binary Semaphore 0 OK>                                                    
EXIT:<done>

NOTE: This won't work with Qemu 0.13.XX or elder. They have broken TFTP
server:  http://ecos.sourceware.org/ml/ecos-devel/2011-01/msg00008.html

FYI: They applied my patch and now it works (no need tun/taps).

Cheers,
Sergei

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[ECOS] Re: HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[Grant Edwards]

On 2011-03-24, John Dallaway <jld@codeconfidence.com> wrote:

>>> I have always found it necessary to pad the disk image to 1440KiB when
>>> using CYG_HAL_STARTUP == "FLOPPY" with QEMU. Ref:
>>>
>>>   http://www.codeconfidence.com/technote-0002.shtml
>> 
>> I see you pad to 0x16b000 (1452K) where does that number come from?
>
> The parameter is an address, not a file length. This is discussed a
> little later in the technical note.

Got it.

If instead of redboot.elf you start with redboot.bin (which seems to
be built by default for FLOPPY startup), then you don't have to worry
about offsetting the pad-to value with the input file's LMA:

  objcopy -I binary -O binary --pad-to=$((1440*1024)) redboot.bin floppy.bin

Likewise a two-pass approach (one to convert to binary, a second to
pad), eliminates the need to know the original LMA.
  
Floppy startup is quicker and simpler, but like you note on your page
it does limit the amount of RAM available.

Floppy startup has 84KB available:

  RAM: 0x00000000-0x000a0000 [0x0008b490-0x000a0000 available]

Grub startup has 15MB available:

 Grub:  RAM: 0x00100000-0x040ffc00 [0x00190290-0x01000000 available]

(If you enable CYGHWR_HAL_I386_PC_LOAD_HIGH, it drops by 1MB.)
 
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[ECOS] Re: HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[Grant Edwards]

On 2011-03-24, Drasko DRASKOVIC <drasko.draskovic@gmail.com> wrote:

> Are you maybe aware of a way we could run similar thing you made, but
> with ARM (or MIPS) architecture ?

This just showed up in the ecos-patches mailing-list today:

  http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.os.ecos.patches/5726
  http://sourceforge.net/projects/emboslab/

It's a port to the Qemu MINI2440 platform (Samsung S3C2440 ARM9).
  
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Re: [ECOS] Re: HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[Drasko DRASKOVIC]

On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Grant Edwards
<grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2011-03-24, Drasko DRASKOVIC <drasko.draskovic@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Are you maybe aware of a way we could run similar thing you made, but
>> with ARM (or MIPS) architecture ?
>
> This just showed up in the ecos-patches mailing-list today:
>
>  http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.os.ecos.patches/5726
>  http://sourceforge.net/projects/emboslab/
>
> It's a port to the Qemu MINI2440 platform (Samsung S3C2440 ARM9).

Great !

Would it be possible to include this port in the official eCos tree ?

BR,
Drasko

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[ECOS] Re: HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[Grant Edwards]

On 2011-03-25, Drasko DRASKOVIC <drasko.draskovic@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Grant Edwards
><grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2011-03-24, Drasko DRASKOVIC <drasko.draskovic@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Are you maybe aware of a way we could run similar thing you made, but
>>> with ARM (or MIPS) architecture ?
>>
>> This just showed up in the ecos-patches mailing-list today:
>>
>> ?http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.os.ecos.patches/5726
>> ?http://sourceforge.net/projects/emboslab/
>>
>> It's a port to the Qemu MINI2440 platform (Samsung S3C2440 ARM9).
>
> Great !
>
> Would it be possible to include this port in the official eCos tree ?

If the authors assign copyright to the FSF and contribute it.

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Re: [ECOS] Re: HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[Drasko DRASKOVIC]

I am very interested about this...

First - can not you re-distribute eCos code as you like ?

Second, if you re-distribute it, can not you do it the way you like -
for example putting it in git repository.

BR,
Drasko

On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Grant Edwards
<grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2011-03-25, Drasko DRASKOVIC <drasko.draskovic@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Grant Edwards
>><grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 2011-03-24, Drasko DRASKOVIC <drasko.draskovic@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Are you maybe aware of a way we could run similar thing you made, but
>>>> with ARM (or MIPS) architecture ?
>>>
>>> This just showed up in the ecos-patches mailing-list today:
>>>
>>> ?http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.os.ecos.patches/5726
>>> ?http://sourceforge.net/projects/emboslab/
>>>
>>> It's a port to the Qemu MINI2440 platform (Samsung S3C2440 ARM9).
>>
>> Great !
>>
>> Would it be possible to include this port in the official eCos tree ?
>
> If the authors assign copyright to the FSF and contribute it.
>
> --
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>                                  at               see NEGATIVITY and ASPHALT
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>
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>

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Re: [ECOS] Re: HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[ricky wu]

It's the first time, Anyone can teach what can i do.
I will do it follow ecos license

2011/3/25 Drasko DRASKOVIC <drasko.draskovic@gmail.com>:
> I am very interested about this...
>
> First - can not you re-distribute eCos code as you like ?
>
> Second, if you re-distribute it, can not you do it the way you like -
> for example putting it in git repository.
>
> BR,
> Drasko
>
> On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Grant Edwards
> <grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2011-03-25, Drasko DRASKOVIC <drasko.draskovic@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Grant Edwards
>>><grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2011-03-24, Drasko DRASKOVIC <drasko.draskovic@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Are you maybe aware of a way we could run similar thing you made, but
>>>>> with ARM (or MIPS) architecture ?
>>>>
>>>> This just showed up in the ecos-patches mailing-list today:
>>>>
>>>> ?http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.os.ecos.patches/5726
>>>> ?http://sourceforge.net/projects/emboslab/
>>>>
>>>> It's a port to the Qemu MINI2440 platform (Samsung S3C2440 ARM9).
>>>
>>> Great !
>>>
>>> Would it be possible to include this port in the official eCos tree ?
>>
>> If the authors assign copyright to the FSF and contribute it.
>>
>> --
>> Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! Everywhere I look I
>>                                  at               see NEGATIVITY and ASPHALT
>>                              gmail.com            ...
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
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>



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[ECOS] Re: HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[Grant Edwards]

On 2011-03-25, Drasko DRASKOVIC <drasko.draskovic@gmail.com> wrote:

> I am very interested about this...
>
> First - can not you re-distribute eCos code as you like ?

You have to follow the license terms, but they are pretty liberal

> Second, if you re-distribute it, can not you do it the way you like -
> for example putting it in git repository.

Yes, you certainly can.

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Re: [ECOS] Re: HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[Drasko DRASKOVIC]

On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 3:59 PM, Grant Edwards
<grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2011-03-25, Drasko DRASKOVIC <drasko.draskovic@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I am very interested about this...
>>
>> First - can not you re-distribute eCos code as you like ?
>
> You have to follow the license terms, but they are pretty liberal
Yes, I meant giving it publicly, following the licence.


>> Second, if you re-distribute it, can not you do it the way you like -
>> for example putting it in git repository.
>
> Yes, you certainly can.

So why then the authors must assign copyright to the FSF and
contribute it in the order for us to put eCos sources in git tree ?

BR,
Drasko

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[ECOS] Re: HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[John Dallaway]

Drasko

Drasko DRASKOVIC wrote:

>>> Second, if you re-distribute it, can not you do it the way you like -
>>> for example putting it in git repository.
>> 
>> Yes, you certainly can.
> 
> So why then the authors must assign copyright to the FSF and
> contribute it in the order for us to put eCos sources in git tree ?

You can put eCos-licensed sources in your _own_ repository and
redistribute them without issue. However, it is eCos project policy that
copyright in all contributions to the official eCos project repository
must be assigned to the FSF. [ There are a few exceptions. ]

Details at:  http://ecos.sourceware.org/contrib.html

John Dallaway
eCos maintainers
http://www.dallaway.org.uk/john

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Re: [ECOS] Re: HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[ricky wu]

Dear all:
I think that eCos is an easy to use RTOS, but most of students and
developer have
not idea to how to start their work.
We create this project only hope them do it from a virtual system like
QEMU or synthetic target.
And the drivers and application will base on this target.
We will fix some issues continually, if we have own a repository that
work will be more difficult.
If the eCos interest it too, we will sent the patch to eCos Team
following standard procedure.
We show some picture to let more people join us

2011/3/28 ricky wu <rickleaf.wu@gmail.com>
>
> I think that eCos is an easy to use RTOS, but most of students and developer have
> not idea to how to start their work.
> We create this project only hope them do it from a virtual system like QEMU or synthetic target.
> And the drivers and application will base on this target.
> We will fix some issues continually, if we have own a repository that work will be more difficult.
> If the eCos interest it too, we will sent the patch to eCos Team following standard procedure.
> We show some picture to let more people join us
> 2011/3/28 Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards@gmail.com>
>>
>> On 2011-03-28, Alex Schuilenburg <alexs@ecoscentric.com> wrote:
>> > On 2011-03-25 15:26, John Dallaway wrote:
>> >> Drasko
>> >>
>> >> Drasko DRASKOVIC wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>>> Second, if you re-distribute it, can not you do it the way you like -
>> >>>>> for example putting it in git repository.
>> >>>> Yes, you certainly can.
>> >>> So why then the authors must assign copyright to the FSF and
>> >>> contribute it in the order for us to put eCos sources in git tree ?
>> >> You can put eCos-licensed sources in your _own_ repository and
>> >> redistribute them without issue. However, it is eCos project policy that
>> >> copyright in all contributions to the official eCos project repository
>> >> must be assigned to the FSF. [ There are a few exceptions. ]
>> >
>> > The only benefit I can think of wanting to publish your own repository
>> > would be for the rapid-turnaround in shared development of your port.
>> >
>> > While you can redistribute freely, there are a few good reasons why you
>> > should consider contributing after the work is completed rather than
>> > continuing to publish the code in your own repository.
>>
>> In this case, he can't consider contributing after the work is
>> completed.  He didn't write the port in question.  AFAICT he was
>> asking about creating a repository which which contained code which
>> somebody else developed and for which a copyright assignment to the
>> FSF hadn't been executed -- but for which the license terms allows him
>> to redistribute the source code.
>>
>> In any case it's pretty much a moot point, since the author of the
>> port has expressed a desire to contribute it.
>>
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>>                              gmail.com            THRU CAPT GROGAN'S LUMBAR
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>>
>>
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>>
>
>
>
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[ECOS] Re: HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[Grant Edwards]

On 2011-03-28, Alex Schuilenburg <alexs@ecoscentric.com> wrote:
> On 2011-03-25 15:26, John Dallaway wrote:
>> Drasko
>>
>> Drasko DRASKOVIC wrote:
>>
>>>>> Second, if you re-distribute it, can not you do it the way you like -
>>>>> for example putting it in git repository.
>>>> Yes, you certainly can.
>>> So why then the authors must assign copyright to the FSF and
>>> contribute it in the order for us to put eCos sources in git tree ?
>> You can put eCos-licensed sources in your _own_ repository and
>> redistribute them without issue. However, it is eCos project policy that
>> copyright in all contributions to the official eCos project repository
>> must be assigned to the FSF. [ There are a few exceptions. ]
>
> The only benefit I can think of wanting to publish your own repository
> would be for the rapid-turnaround in shared development of your port.
>
> While you can redistribute freely, there are a few good reasons why you
> should consider contributing after the work is completed rather than
> continuing to publish the code in your own repository.

In this case, he can't consider contributing after the work is
completed.  He didn't write the port in question.  AFAICT he was
asking about creating a repository which which contained code which
somebody else developed and for which a copyright assignment to the
FSF hadn't been executed -- but for which the license terms allows him
to redistribute the source code.

In any case it's pretty much a moot point, since the author of the
port has expressed a desire to contribute it.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! I'm young ... I'm
                                  at               HEALTHY ... I can HIKE
                              gmail.com            THRU CAPT GROGAN'S LUMBAR
                                                   REGIONS!


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Re: [ECOS] Re: HOWTO: eCos on QEMU PC emulator

[Alex Schuilenburg]

On 2011-03-25 15:26, John Dallaway wrote:
> Drasko
>
> Drasko DRASKOVIC wrote:
>
>>>> Second, if you re-distribute it, can not you do it the way you like -
>>>> for example putting it in git repository.
>>> Yes, you certainly can.
>> So why then the authors must assign copyright to the FSF and
>> contribute it in the order for us to put eCos sources in git tree ?
> You can put eCos-licensed sources in your _own_ repository and
> redistribute them without issue. However, it is eCos project policy that
> copyright in all contributions to the official eCos project repository
> must be assigned to the FSF. [ There are a few exceptions. ]

The only benefit I can think of wanting to publish your own repository
would be for the rapid-turnaround in shared development of your port.

While you can redistribute freely, there are a few good reasons why you
should consider contributing after the work is completed rather than
continuing to publish the code in your own repository.

   1. Your repository will need to be updated regularly to benefit from
      new features and prevent it from being left behind.
      Don't underestimate the effort involved in keeping private
      repositories updated.
   2. Unless you provide a license and the usual guarantees associated
      with an assignment, you are not likely to get many others using
      your sources in commercial products for fear of running the risk
      of violating patents or using source code of dubious/unknown origin.
      The eCos assignment process overseen by the FSF provides a high
      level of assurance of the origin of the source code as well as
      ensures that the code can be used without the risk of running into
      patent violations.  This adds significantly to the strength of the
      eCos brand.
   3. If you start publishing the site, you must ensure that you follow
      the eCos trademark usage policy at
      http://www.ecoscentric.com/trademark_usage.shtml
      Read the FAQ as to why we enforce this policy.


-- Alex Schuilenburg

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