* [ECOS] ethernet download @ 2001-08-23 14:41 Trenton D. Adams 2001-08-23 15:58 ` Gary Thomas 0 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread From: Trenton D. Adams @ 2001-08-23 14:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 'eCos Discussion' Is there a utility for my edb7111-2 for downloading ROM eCos programs over ethernet? It would obviously have to start with serial in order to get the original ethernet driver over and then finish over ethernet. Trenton D. Adams Extreme Engineering #17, 6025 - 12 St. SE Calgary, Alberta, Canada T2H 2K1 Phone: 403 640 9494 ext-208 Fax: 403 640 9599 http://www.extremeeng.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* RE: [ECOS] ethernet download 2001-08-23 14:41 [ECOS] ethernet download Trenton D. Adams @ 2001-08-23 15:58 ` Gary Thomas 2001-08-24 7:38 ` Trenton D. Adams 0 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread From: Gary Thomas @ 2001-08-23 15:58 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Trenton D. Adams; +Cc: eCos Discussion On 23-Aug-2001 Trenton D. Adams wrote: > Is there a utility for my edb7111-2 for downloading ROM eCos programs > over ethernet? > > It would obviously have to start with serial in order to get the > original ethernet driver over and then finish over ethernet. > What about RedBoot? :-) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* RE: [ECOS] ethernet download 2001-08-23 15:58 ` Gary Thomas @ 2001-08-24 7:38 ` Trenton D. Adams 2001-08-24 7:51 ` Gary Thomas 0 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread From: Trenton D. Adams @ 2001-08-24 7:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 'Gary Thomas', 'Trenton D. Adams' Cc: 'eCos Discussion' What about it? It only allows you to download a ROM image once, and then it's wiped out of FLASH, no? If I have to download redboot every time, it defeats the purpose a little bit because it might not save any time. -----Original Message----- From: ecos-discuss-owner@sources.redhat.com [ mailto:ecos-discuss-owner@sources.redhat.com ] On Behalf Of Gary Thomas Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 5:05 PM To: Trenton D. Adams Cc: eCos Discussion Subject: RE: [ECOS] ethernet download On 23-Aug-2001 Trenton D. Adams wrote: > Is there a utility for my edb7111-2 for downloading ROM eCos programs > over ethernet? > > It would obviously have to start with serial in order to get the > original ethernet driver over and then finish over ethernet. > What about RedBoot? :-) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* RE: [ECOS] ethernet download 2001-08-24 7:38 ` Trenton D. Adams @ 2001-08-24 7:51 ` Gary Thomas 2001-08-24 7:59 ` Trenton D. Adams 0 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread From: Gary Thomas @ 2001-08-24 7:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Trenton D. Adams; +Cc: eCos Discussion, Trenton D. Adams On 24-Aug-2001 Trenton D. Adams wrote: > What about it? It only allows you to download a ROM image once, and > then it's wiped out of FLASH, no? If I have to download redboot every > time, it defeats the purpose a little bit because it might not save any > time. > That's true - for the primary ROM image. If you're looking for a faster way to load big ROM images, rather than keeping RedBoot in place, you're out of luck I'm sorry. What is it that you want to have in ROM? Will it fit alongside of RedBoot? If so, you can keep RedBoot in there to help you download and manipulate the FLASH (I hope it's FLASH!). You can still execute from FLASH if you wish, or use RedBoot commands to load & go from FLASH. We do this sort of thing all the time with embedded Linux systems. RedBoot is kept for the purpose of system startup, download and FLASH management. When the system starts, a RedBoot script is used to startup the Linux kernel, etc. > -----Original Message----- > From: ecos-discuss-owner@sources.redhat.com > [ mailto:ecos-discuss-owner@sources.redhat.com ] On Behalf Of Gary Thomas > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 5:05 PM > To: Trenton D. Adams > Cc: eCos Discussion > Subject: RE: [ECOS] ethernet download > > > > On 23-Aug-2001 Trenton D. Adams wrote: >> Is there a utility for my edb7111-2 for downloading ROM eCos programs >> over ethernet? >> >> It would obviously have to start with serial in order to get the >> original ethernet driver over and then finish over ethernet. >> > > What about RedBoot? :-) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* RE: [ECOS] ethernet download 2001-08-24 7:51 ` Gary Thomas @ 2001-08-24 7:59 ` Trenton D. Adams 2001-08-24 8:06 ` Gary Thomas 0 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread From: Trenton D. Adams @ 2001-08-24 7:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 'Gary Thomas'; +Cc: 'eCos Discussion' That sounds cool. I never thought of that. I'll try it. How much RAM does Redboot take up? Can you have it take up a smaller amount of RAM after it's started the other system? We are only putting 1M RAM on our target board so I can't have it taking up much. -----Original Message----- From: gary@chez-thomas.org [ mailto:gary@chez-thomas.org ] On Behalf Of Gary Thomas Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 8:59 AM To: Trenton D. Adams Cc: eCos Discussion; eCos Discussion; Trenton D. Adams Subject: RE: [ECOS] ethernet download On 24-Aug-2001 Trenton D. Adams wrote: > What about it? It only allows you to download a ROM image once, and > then it's wiped out of FLASH, no? If I have to download redboot every > time, it defeats the purpose a little bit because it might not save any > time. > That's true - for the primary ROM image. If you're looking for a faster way to load big ROM images, rather than keeping RedBoot in place, you're out of luck I'm sorry. What is it that you want to have in ROM? Will it fit alongside of RedBoot? If so, you can keep RedBoot in there to help you download and manipulate the FLASH (I hope it's FLASH!). You can still execute from FLASH if you wish, or use RedBoot commands to load & go from FLASH. We do this sort of thing all the time with embedded Linux systems. RedBoot is kept for the purpose of system startup, download and FLASH management. When the system starts, a RedBoot script is used to startup the Linux kernel, etc. > -----Original Message----- > From: ecos-discuss-owner@sources.redhat.com > [ mailto:ecos-discuss-owner@sources.redhat.com ] On Behalf Of Gary Thomas > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 5:05 PM > To: Trenton D. Adams > Cc: eCos Discussion > Subject: RE: [ECOS] ethernet download > > > > On 23-Aug-2001 Trenton D. Adams wrote: >> Is there a utility for my edb7111-2 for downloading ROM eCos programs >> over ethernet? >> >> It would obviously have to start with serial in order to get the >> original ethernet driver over and then finish over ethernet. >> > > What about RedBoot? :-) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* RE: [ECOS] ethernet download 2001-08-24 7:59 ` Trenton D. Adams @ 2001-08-24 8:06 ` Gary Thomas 2001-08-24 8:22 ` Mark Salter 0 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread From: Gary Thomas @ 2001-08-24 8:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Trenton D. Adams; +Cc: eCos Discussion On 24-Aug-2001 Trenton D. Adams wrote: > That sounds cool. I never thought of that. I'll try it. How much RAM > does Redboot take up? Can you have it take up a smaller amount of RAM > after it's started the other system? We are only putting 1M RAM on our > target board so I can't have it taking up much. > The normal case is for RedBoot to use 128K. However, if you're willing to give up RedBoot's services (e.g. network console & debugging, etc) after starting your code, that can be reduced to 0 (it's a non-factor becaose your code will use everything available). > -----Original Message----- > From: gary@chez-thomas.org [ mailto:gary@chez-thomas.org ] On Behalf Of > Gary Thomas > Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 8:59 AM > To: Trenton D. Adams > Cc: eCos Discussion; eCos Discussion; Trenton D. Adams > Subject: RE: [ECOS] ethernet download > > > > On 24-Aug-2001 Trenton D. Adams wrote: >> What about it? It only allows you to download a ROM image once, and >> then it's wiped out of FLASH, no? If I have to download redboot every >> time, it defeats the purpose a little bit because it might not save > any >> time. >> > > That's true - for the primary ROM image. If you're looking for a faster > way to load big ROM images, rather than keeping RedBoot in place, you're > out of luck I'm sorry. > > What is it that you want to have in ROM? Will it fit alongside of > RedBoot? > If so, you can keep RedBoot in there to help you download and manipulate > the FLASH (I hope it's FLASH!). You can still execute from FLASH if you > wish, or use RedBoot commands to load & go from FLASH. > > We do this sort of thing all the time with embedded Linux systems. > RedBoot > is kept for the purpose of system startup, download and FLASH > management. > When the system starts, a RedBoot script is used to startup the Linux > kernel, etc. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: ecos-discuss-owner@sources.redhat.com >> [ mailto:ecos-discuss-owner@sources.redhat.com ] On Behalf Of Gary > Thomas >> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 5:05 PM >> To: Trenton D. Adams >> Cc: eCos Discussion >> Subject: RE: [ECOS] ethernet download >> >> >> >> On 23-Aug-2001 Trenton D. Adams wrote: >>> Is there a utility for my edb7111-2 for downloading ROM eCos programs >>> over ethernet? >>> >>> It would obviously have to start with serial in order to get the >>> original ethernet driver over and then finish over ethernet. >>> >> >> What about RedBoot? :-) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: [ECOS] ethernet download 2001-08-24 8:06 ` Gary Thomas @ 2001-08-24 8:22 ` Mark Salter 2001-08-24 8:24 ` Trenton D. Adams 0 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread From: Mark Salter @ 2001-08-24 8:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: gthomas; +Cc: tadams, ecos-discuss >>>>> Gary Thomas writes: > On 24-Aug-2001 Trenton D. Adams wrote: >> That sounds cool. I never thought of that. I'll try it. How much RAM >> does Redboot take up? Can you have it take up a smaller amount of RAM >> after it's started the other system? We are only putting 1M RAM on our >> target board so I can't have it taking up much. >> > The normal case is for RedBoot to use 128K. However, if you're willing > to give up RedBoot's services (e.g. network console & debugging, etc) > after starting your code, that can be reduced to 0 (it's a non-factor > becaose your code will use everything available). Also, in the case of systems like linux, RedBoot is out of the picture completely once the app is started. The app is then free to reuse any RAM that was previously used by RedBoot. --Mark ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* RE: [ECOS] ethernet download 2001-08-24 8:22 ` Mark Salter @ 2001-08-24 8:24 ` Trenton D. Adams 2001-08-24 8:30 ` Gary Thomas ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 22+ messages in thread From: Trenton D. Adams @ 2001-08-24 8:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 'Mark Salter', gthomas; +Cc: ecos-discuss Well then how are you supposed to ever update your program? If redboot doesn't watch on the network port, you can't update your program anymore. -----Original Message----- From: Mark Salter [ mailto:msalter@redhat.com ] Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 9:22 AM To: gthomas@redhat.com Cc: tadams@theone.dnsalias.com; ecos-discuss@sourceware.cygnus.com Subject: Re: [ECOS] ethernet download >>>>> Gary Thomas writes: > On 24-Aug-2001 Trenton D. Adams wrote: >> That sounds cool. I never thought of that. I'll try it. How much RAM >> does Redboot take up? Can you have it take up a smaller amount of RAM >> after it's started the other system? We are only putting 1M RAM on our >> target board so I can't have it taking up much. >> > The normal case is for RedBoot to use 128K. However, if you're willing > to give up RedBoot's services (e.g. network console & debugging, etc) > after starting your code, that can be reduced to 0 (it's a non-factor > becaose your code will use everything available). Also, in the case of systems like linux, RedBoot is out of the picture completely once the app is started. The app is then free to reuse any RAM that was previously used by RedBoot. --Mark ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* RE: [ECOS] ethernet download 2001-08-24 8:24 ` Trenton D. Adams @ 2001-08-24 8:30 ` Gary Thomas 2001-08-24 8:32 ` Grant Edwards 2001-08-24 8:34 ` Mark Salter 2 siblings, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread From: Gary Thomas @ 2001-08-24 8:30 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Trenton D. Adams; +Cc: ecos-discuss, Mark Salter On 24-Aug-2001 Trenton D. Adams wrote: > Well then how are you supposed to ever update your program? If redboot > doesn't watch on the network port, you can't update your program > anymore. > In that case, you'd have to reset the board to go into "maintenance mode". Alternatively, you could put the update code into your application. Note: RedBoot is never "watching over your shoulder" for commands. If it's running in it's CLI mode, then you can give it commands. Once it launches an application, it's no longer in CLI mode. It may assist with I/O (especially network console I/O), but that's pretty much it. > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Salter [ mailto:msalter@redhat.com ] > Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 9:22 AM > To: gthomas@redhat.com > Cc: tadams@theone.dnsalias.com; ecos-discuss@sourceware.cygnus.com > Subject: Re: [ECOS] ethernet download > > >>>>>> Gary Thomas writes: > >> On 24-Aug-2001 Trenton D. Adams wrote: >>> That sounds cool. I never thought of that. I'll try it. How much > RAM >>> does Redboot take up? Can you have it take up a smaller amount of > RAM >>> after it's started the other system? We are only putting 1M RAM on > our >>> target board so I can't have it taking up much. >>> > >> The normal case is for RedBoot to use 128K. However, if you're > willing >> to give up RedBoot's services (e.g. network console & debugging, etc) >> after starting your code, that can be reduced to 0 (it's a non-factor >> becaose your code will use everything available). > > Also, in the case of systems like linux, RedBoot is out of the picture > completely once the app is started. The app is then free to reuse any > RAM that was previously used by RedBoot. > > --Mark ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: [ECOS] ethernet download 2001-08-24 8:24 ` Trenton D. Adams 2001-08-24 8:30 ` Gary Thomas @ 2001-08-24 8:32 ` Grant Edwards 2001-08-24 8:38 ` Trenton D. Adams 2001-08-24 8:40 ` Gary Thomas 2001-08-24 8:34 ` Mark Salter 2 siblings, 2 replies; 22+ messages in thread From: Grant Edwards @ 2001-08-24 8:32 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Trenton D. Adams; +Cc: 'Mark Salter', gthomas, ecos-discuss On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 09:24:30AM -0600, Trenton D. Adams wrote: > > Also, in the case of systems like linux, RedBoot is out of the > > picture completely once the app is started. The app is then > > free to reuse any RAM that was previously used by RedBoot. > > Well then how are you supposed to ever update your program? If > redboot doesn't watch on the network port, you can't update > your program anymore. You push the little red reset button on the corner of the board. That returns control to RedBoot. [There needs to be an international treaty forbidding the trafficing in hardware without reset buttons.] -- Grant Edwards grante@visi.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* RE: [ECOS] ethernet download 2001-08-24 8:32 ` Grant Edwards @ 2001-08-24 8:38 ` Trenton D. Adams 2001-08-24 8:41 ` Grant Edwards 2001-08-24 8:40 ` Gary Thomas 1 sibling, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread From: Trenton D. Adams @ 2001-08-24 8:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 'Grant Edwards'; +Cc: 'Mark Salter', gthomas, ecos-discuss Very funny! :) I'm talking about when Redboot is set to run the program on bootup. -----Original Message----- From: ecos-discuss-owner@sources.redhat.com [ mailto:ecos-discuss-owner@sources.redhat.com ] On Behalf Of Grant Edwards Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 9:34 AM To: Trenton D. Adams Cc: 'Mark Salter'; gthomas@redhat.com; ecos-discuss@sourceware.cygnus.com Subject: Re: [ECOS] ethernet download On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 09:24:30AM -0600, Trenton D. Adams wrote: > > Also, in the case of systems like linux, RedBoot is out of the > > picture completely once the app is started. The app is then > > free to reuse any RAM that was previously used by RedBoot. > > Well then how are you supposed to ever update your program? If > redboot doesn't watch on the network port, you can't update > your program anymore. You push the little red reset button on the corner of the board. That returns control to RedBoot. [There needs to be an international treaty forbidding the trafficing in hardware without reset buttons.] -- Grant Edwards grante@visi.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: [ECOS] ethernet download 2001-08-24 8:38 ` Trenton D. Adams @ 2001-08-24 8:41 ` Grant Edwards 0 siblings, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread From: Grant Edwards @ 2001-08-24 8:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Trenton D. Adams; +Cc: 'Mark Salter', gthomas, ecos-discuss On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 09:38:21AM -0600, Trenton D. Adams wrote: > > > > Also, in the case of systems like linux, RedBoot is out of the > > > > picture completely once the app is started. The app is then > > > > free to reuse any RAM that was previously used by RedBoot. > > > > > > Well then how are you supposed to ever update your program? If > > > redboot doesn't watch on the network port, you can't update > > > your program anymore. > > > > You push the little red reset button on the corner of the > > board. That returns control to RedBoot. > > Very funny! :) I'm talking about when Redboot is set to run the > program on bootup. You set up redboot to wait for 5 seconds (or however long you want) so that you've got a chance to stop the auto-loading of the default program from FLASH. Then you can use the normal RedBoot commands to load a different program, burn it to Flash, whatever. [We're currently shipping a product that does exactly that.] -- Grant Edwards grante@visi.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: [ECOS] ethernet download 2001-08-24 8:32 ` Grant Edwards 2001-08-24 8:38 ` Trenton D. Adams @ 2001-08-24 8:40 ` Gary Thomas 2001-08-24 8:42 ` Grant Edwards 1 sibling, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread From: Gary Thomas @ 2001-08-24 8:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Grant Edwards; +Cc: ecos-discuss, Mark Salter, Trenton D. Adams On 24-Aug-2001 Grant Edwards wrote: > On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 09:24:30AM -0600, Trenton D. Adams wrote: > >> > Also, in the case of systems like linux, RedBoot is out of the >> > picture completely once the app is started. The app is then >> > free to reuse any RAM that was previously used by RedBoot. >> >> Well then how are you supposed to ever update your program? If >> redboot doesn't watch on the network port, you can't update >> your program anymore. > > You push the little red reset button on the corner of the > board. That returns control to RedBoot. > > [There needs to be an international treaty forbidding the > trafficing in hardware without reset buttons.] How about hardware with no serial port - only an ethernet connection? Yes, we have worked with such beasties... fun, in the purest sense :-) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: [ECOS] ethernet download 2001-08-24 8:40 ` Gary Thomas @ 2001-08-24 8:42 ` Grant Edwards 2001-08-24 8:51 ` Gary Thomas 0 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread From: Grant Edwards @ 2001-08-24 8:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Gary Thomas; +Cc: ecos-discuss, Mark Salter, Trenton D. Adams On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 09:48:32AM -0600, Gary Thomas wrote: > > On 24-Aug-2001 Grant Edwards wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 09:24:30AM -0600, Trenton D. Adams wrote: > > > >> > Also, in the case of systems like linux, RedBoot is out of the > >> > picture completely once the app is started. The app is then > >> > free to reuse any RAM that was previously used by RedBoot. > >> > >> Well then how are you supposed to ever update your program? If > >> redboot doesn't watch on the network port, you can't update > >> your program anymore. > > > > You push the little red reset button on the corner of the > > board. That returns control to RedBoot. > > > > [There needs to be an international treaty forbidding the > > trafficing in hardware without reset buttons.] > > How about hardware with no serial port - only an ethernet connection? > Yes, we have worked with such beasties... fun, in the purest sense :-) My version of RedBoot listens on a TCP port. You push the reset button then you've got 10 seconds to telnet to RedBoot. Once you've opened a telnet session, it just like you're connected to a serial console. -- Grant Edwards grante@visi.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: [ECOS] ethernet download 2001-08-24 8:42 ` Grant Edwards @ 2001-08-24 8:51 ` Gary Thomas 2001-08-24 9:00 ` Grant Edwards 0 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread From: Gary Thomas @ 2001-08-24 8:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Grant Edwards; +Cc: Trenton D. Adams, Mark Salter, ecos-discuss On 24-Aug-2001 Grant Edwards wrote: > On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 09:48:32AM -0600, Gary Thomas wrote: >> >> On 24-Aug-2001 Grant Edwards wrote: >> > On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 09:24:30AM -0600, Trenton D. Adams wrote: >> > >> >> > Also, in the case of systems like linux, RedBoot is out of the >> >> > picture completely once the app is started. The app is then >> >> > free to reuse any RAM that was previously used by RedBoot. >> >> >> >> Well then how are you supposed to ever update your program? If >> >> redboot doesn't watch on the network port, you can't update >> >> your program anymore. >> > >> > You push the little red reset button on the corner of the >> > board. That returns control to RedBoot. >> > >> > [There needs to be an international treaty forbidding the >> > trafficing in hardware without reset buttons.] >> >> How about hardware with no serial port - only an ethernet connection? >> Yes, we have worked with such beasties... fun, in the purest sense :-) > > My version of RedBoot listens on a TCP port. You push the > reset button then you've got 10 seconds to telnet to RedBoot. > Once you've opened a telnet session, it just like you're > connected to a serial console. Actually, they all work that way :-) The real problem is when you're just bringing things up initially (or making major changes to the startup code). Trying to debug with only a network connection in this environment can be more than tricky. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: [ECOS] ethernet download 2001-08-24 8:51 ` Gary Thomas @ 2001-08-24 9:00 ` Grant Edwards 2001-08-24 9:03 ` Trenton D. Adams 2001-08-24 9:03 ` Gary Thomas 0 siblings, 2 replies; 22+ messages in thread From: Grant Edwards @ 2001-08-24 9:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Gary Thomas; +Cc: Trenton D. Adams, Mark Salter, ecos-discuss On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 09:59:25AM -0600, Gary Thomas wrote: > > >> How about hardware with no serial port - only an ethernet > >> connection? Yes, we have worked with such beasties... fun, in > >> the purest sense :-) > > > > My version of RedBoot listens on a TCP port. You push the > > reset button then you've got 10 seconds to telnet to RedBoot. > > Once you've opened a telnet session, it just like you're > > connected to a serial console. > > Actually, they all work that way :-) The real problem is when > you're just bringing things up initially (or making major > changes to the startup code). Trying to debug with only a > network connection in this environment can be more than tricky. That's when you use hardware-assisted debugging: either a full-up in-circuit emulator or something like a JTAG interface. Wasting several weeks of engineering time (and marketing window) to save a few thousand dollars is false economy. Or layout the board with a debugging serial port (something with a nice big FIFO that will run at 115K baud or higher) and then don't populate that portion of the board in production. Or put a header of some sort on the board so that you can attach a daughterboard with a UART. Something as simple as a three pin SPI or I2C connector can be used to interface to a UART while you're debugging. -- Grant Edwards grante@visi.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* RE: [ECOS] ethernet download 2001-08-24 9:00 ` Grant Edwards @ 2001-08-24 9:03 ` Trenton D. Adams 2001-08-24 9:05 ` Grant Edwards 2001-08-24 9:03 ` Gary Thomas 1 sibling, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread From: Trenton D. Adams @ 2001-08-24 9:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 'Grant Edwards', 'Gary Thomas' Cc: 'Mark Salter', ecos-discuss You're assuming I make bugs! ;) -----Original Message----- From: ecos-discuss-owner@sources.redhat.com [ mailto:ecos-discuss-owner@sources.redhat.com ] On Behalf Of Grant Edwards Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 10:03 AM To: Gary Thomas Cc: Trenton D. Adams; Mark Salter; ecos-discuss@sourceware.cygnus.com Subject: Re: [ECOS] ethernet download On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 09:59:25AM -0600, Gary Thomas wrote: > > >> How about hardware with no serial port - only an ethernet > >> connection? Yes, we have worked with such beasties... fun, in > >> the purest sense :-) > > > > My version of RedBoot listens on a TCP port. You push the > > reset button then you've got 10 seconds to telnet to RedBoot. > > Once you've opened a telnet session, it just like you're > > connected to a serial console. > > Actually, they all work that way :-) The real problem is when > you're just bringing things up initially (or making major > changes to the startup code). Trying to debug with only a > network connection in this environment can be more than tricky. That's when you use hardware-assisted debugging: either a full-up in-circuit emulator or something like a JTAG interface. Wasting several weeks of engineering time (and marketing window) to save a few thousand dollars is false economy. Or layout the board with a debugging serial port (something with a nice big FIFO that will run at 115K baud or higher) and then don't populate that portion of the board in production. Or put a header of some sort on the board so that you can attach a daughterboard with a UART. Something as simple as a three pin SPI or I2C connector can be used to interface to a UART while you're debugging. -- Grant Edwards grante@visi.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: [ECOS] ethernet download 2001-08-24 9:03 ` Trenton D. Adams @ 2001-08-24 9:05 ` Grant Edwards 2001-08-24 9:09 ` Trenton D. Adams 0 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread From: Grant Edwards @ 2001-08-24 9:05 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Trenton D. Adams Cc: 'Gary Thomas', 'Mark Salter', ecos-discuss On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 10:03:10AM -0600, Trenton D. Adams wrote: > You're assuming I make bugs! ;) You've got to put bugs in! Otherwise things get done too soon and it all looks too easy. -- Grant Edwards grante@visi.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* RE: [ECOS] ethernet download 2001-08-24 9:05 ` Grant Edwards @ 2001-08-24 9:09 ` Trenton D. Adams 0 siblings, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread From: Trenton D. Adams @ 2001-08-24 9:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 'Grant Edwards' Cc: 'Gary Thomas', 'Mark Salter', ecos-discuss AGREED!!! -----Original Message----- From: ecos-discuss-owner@sources.redhat.com [ mailto:ecos-discuss-owner@sources.redhat.com ] On Behalf Of Grant Edwards Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 10:08 AM To: Trenton D. Adams Cc: 'Gary Thomas'; 'Mark Salter'; ecos-discuss@sourceware.cygnus.com Subject: Re: [ECOS] ethernet download On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 10:03:10AM -0600, Trenton D. Adams wrote: > You're assuming I make bugs! ;) You've got to put bugs in! Otherwise things get done too soon and it all looks too easy. -- Grant Edwards grante@visi.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: [ECOS] ethernet download 2001-08-24 9:00 ` Grant Edwards 2001-08-24 9:03 ` Trenton D. Adams @ 2001-08-24 9:03 ` Gary Thomas 2001-08-24 9:46 ` Grant Edwards 1 sibling, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread From: Gary Thomas @ 2001-08-24 9:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Grant Edwards; +Cc: ecos-discuss, Mark Salter, Trenton D. Adams On 24-Aug-2001 Grant Edwards wrote: > On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 09:59:25AM -0600, Gary Thomas wrote: >> >> >> How about hardware with no serial port - only an ethernet >> >> connection? Yes, we have worked with such beasties... fun, in >> >> the purest sense :-) >> > >> > My version of RedBoot listens on a TCP port. You push the >> > reset button then you've got 10 seconds to telnet to RedBoot. >> > Once you've opened a telnet session, it just like you're >> > connected to a serial console. >> >> Actually, they all work that way :-) The real problem is when >> you're just bringing things up initially (or making major >> changes to the startup code). Trying to debug with only a >> network connection in this environment can be more than tricky. > > That's when you use hardware-assisted debugging: either a > full-up in-circuit emulator or something like a JTAG interface. > Wasting several weeks of engineering time (and marketing > window) to save a few thousand dollars is false economy. > > Or layout the board with a debugging serial port (something > with a nice big FIFO that will run at 115K baud or higher) and > then don't populate that portion of the board in production. > > Or put a header of some sort on the board so that you can > attach a daughterboard with a UART. Something as simple as a > three pin SPI or I2C connector can be used to interface to a > UART while you're debugging. Yup, yup, yup. However, sometimes the "customer" comes to you without any of these things and expects miracles :-) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: [ECOS] ethernet download 2001-08-24 9:03 ` Gary Thomas @ 2001-08-24 9:46 ` Grant Edwards 0 siblings, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread From: Grant Edwards @ 2001-08-24 9:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Gary Thomas; +Cc: ecos-discuss, Mark Salter, Trenton D. Adams On Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 10:11:25AM -0600, Gary Thomas wrote: > > That's when you use hardware-assisted debugging: either a > > full-up in-circuit emulator or something like a JTAG interface. > > Wasting several weeks of engineering time (and marketing > > window) to save a few thousand dollars is false economy. > > > > Or layout the board with a debugging serial port (something > > with a nice big FIFO that will run at 115K baud or higher) and > > then don't populate that portion of the board in production. > > > > Or put a header of some sort on the board so that you can > > attach a daughterboard with a UART. Something as simple as a > > three pin SPI or I2C connector can be used to interface to a > > UART while you're debugging. > > Yup, yup, yup. However, sometimes the "customer" comes to you > without any of these things and expects miracles :-) Yup been there. By the time they realize they don't know what they're doing, they're so far behind schedule there's no time to go back and do things right. The battle is nearly lost, so they bring in the mercenaries to burn the fields and bayonet the wounded... Such is the life in contract engineering. It's so much easier when HW and SW are both in-house and you get a chance to make suggestions before the boards get laid out. -- Grant Edwards grante@visi.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: [ECOS] ethernet download 2001-08-24 8:24 ` Trenton D. Adams 2001-08-24 8:30 ` Gary Thomas 2001-08-24 8:32 ` Grant Edwards @ 2001-08-24 8:34 ` Mark Salter 2 siblings, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread From: Mark Salter @ 2001-08-24 8:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: tadams; +Cc: gthomas, ecos-discuss >>>>> Trenton D Adams writes: > Well then how are you supposed to ever update your program? If redboot > doesn't watch on the network port, you can't update your program > anymore. Two ways. You can stop RedBoot from launching the app at boot time (RedBoot offers a configurable delay for this purpose before running its boot script). Or you can build update functionality into your app if you need to have the update occur while the app is running (this can real tricky if your app is running from or using flash). --Mark ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2001-08-24 9:46 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 22+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2001-08-23 14:41 [ECOS] ethernet download Trenton D. Adams 2001-08-23 15:58 ` Gary Thomas 2001-08-24 7:38 ` Trenton D. Adams 2001-08-24 7:51 ` Gary Thomas 2001-08-24 7:59 ` Trenton D. Adams 2001-08-24 8:06 ` Gary Thomas 2001-08-24 8:22 ` Mark Salter 2001-08-24 8:24 ` Trenton D. Adams 2001-08-24 8:30 ` Gary Thomas 2001-08-24 8:32 ` Grant Edwards 2001-08-24 8:38 ` Trenton D. Adams 2001-08-24 8:41 ` Grant Edwards 2001-08-24 8:40 ` Gary Thomas 2001-08-24 8:42 ` Grant Edwards 2001-08-24 8:51 ` Gary Thomas 2001-08-24 9:00 ` Grant Edwards 2001-08-24 9:03 ` Trenton D. Adams 2001-08-24 9:05 ` Grant Edwards 2001-08-24 9:09 ` Trenton D. Adams 2001-08-24 9:03 ` Gary Thomas 2001-08-24 9:46 ` Grant Edwards 2001-08-24 8:34 ` Mark Salter
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