[ECOS] ecos memory footprint

[ECOS] ecos memory footprint

[Mandeep Sandhu]

Hi All,

Anybody knows if ECOS can run in 64KB mem (or lesser) with the following
features:

* USB Device/slave support
* SPI Driver support
* Networking support (for running a small webserver)

I've not yet narrowed down on my h/w yet...but Microchips PIC32MX460F128H
seems promising? But the sad part is that ecos doesn't show this in their list
of supported h/w.

Have ppl run ecos on microcontrollers w/o external SDRAM (I'm trying to conserve
power by not having ext RAM)?

Regards,
-mandeep

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Re: [ECOS] ecos memory footprint

[Alexander Neundorf]

On Monday 13 July 2009, Mandeep Sandhu wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Anybody knows if ECOS can run in 64KB mem (or lesser) with the following
> features:
>
> * USB Device/slave support
> * SPI Driver support
> * Networking support (for running a small webserver)

This looks like a bit much for 64KB RAM. Maybe you can get it to work.

> I've not yet narrowed down on my h/w yet...but Microchips PIC32MX460F128H
> seems promising? But the sad part is that ecos doesn't show this in their
> list of supported h/w.

Some ARM7 devices like the AT91SAM7 are well supported.

Alex

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Re: [ECOS] ecos memory footprint

[Mandeep Sandhu]

>> Anybody knows if ECOS can run in 64KB mem (or lesser) with the following
>> features:
>>
>> * USB Device/slave support
>> * SPI Driver support
>> * Networking support (for running a small webserver)
>
> This looks like a bit much for 64KB RAM. Maybe you can get it to work.

yeah! :)

I'm trying to build ecos from the at91sam7x template. I've completely removed
ISO C/POSIX packages. I have to dependencies unresolved!

* CYGPKG_ERROR requires CYGBLD_ISO_ERRNO_CODES_HEADER.

* CYGFUN_DEVS_USB_AT91_EP0 requires CYGPKG_IO_USB and
  CYGPKG_IO_USB_SLAVE.

Where do I get these macro's from? Which pkg has it?

Can't find them in the list of existing pkg's!

>
>> I've not yet narrowed down on my h/w yet...but Microchips PIC32MX460F128H
>> seems promising? But the sad part is that ecos doesn't show this in their
>> list of supported h/w.
>
> Some ARM7 devices like the AT91SAM7 are well supported.

Yes. Just hope they fit our budget! :)

-mandeep

>
> Alex
>
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>
>

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Re: [ECOS] ecos memory footprint

[Simon Kallweit]

Mandeep Sandhu schrieb:
> Hi All,
>
> Anybody knows if ECOS can run in 64KB mem (or lesser) with the following
> features:
>
> * USB Device/slave support
> * SPI Driver support
> * Networking support (for running a small webserver)
>
> I've not yet narrowed down on my h/w yet...but Microchips PIC32MX460F128H
> seems promising? But the sad part is that ecos doesn't show this in their list
> of supported h/w.
>
> Have ppl run ecos on microcontrollers w/o external SDRAM (I'm trying to conserve
> power by not having ext RAM)?
>   

This will be rather tough, but probably possible. You should use the 
lwIP networking stack to keep memory usage low. Also, try to use as few 
threads as possible, as this saves you valuable stack memory.

Simon

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Re: [ECOS] ecos memory footprint

[Mandeep Sandhu]

On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 2:13 PM, Simon Kallweit<simon.kallweit@intefo.ch> wrote:
> Mandeep Sandhu schrieb:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Anybody knows if ECOS can run in 64KB mem (or lesser) with the following
>> features:
>>
>> * USB Device/slave support
>> * SPI Driver support
>> * Networking support (for running a small webserver)
>>
>> I've not yet narrowed down on my h/w yet...but Microchips PIC32MX460F128H
>> seems promising? But the sad part is that ecos doesn't show this in their
>> list
>> of supported h/w.
>>
>> Have ppl run ecos on microcontrollers w/o external SDRAM (I'm trying to
>> conserve
>> power by not having ext RAM)?
>>
>
> This will be rather tough, but probably possible. You should use the lwIP
> networking stack to keep memory usage low. Also, try to use as few threads
> as possible, as this saves you valuable stack memory.

Ok. Any idea how to resolve this dependency? W/o this feature the USB device
is useless:

* CYGFUN_DEVS_USB_AT91_EP0 requires CYGPKG_IO_USB and
  CYGPKG_IO_USB_SLAVE.

Another simple question:

How do I figure out the runtime size of my ecos installation?
Is it the size of libtarget.a ? Is this compressed?

W/o the USB feature and rest of the basic stuff including lwIP stack
enabl3d, I'm getting
around 1.2MB in size!

Thanks,
-mandeep

>
> Simon
>

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Re: [ECOS] ecos memory footprint

[Sergei Gavrikov]

Mandeep Sandhu wrote:

> W/o the USB feature and rest of the basic stuff including lwIP stack
> enabl3d, I'm getting around 1.2MB in size!

Refer eCos FAQ
http://ecos.sourceware.org/fom-serv/ecos/cache/91.html

$ <prefix>-size app


Sergei

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Re: [ECOS] ecos memory footprint

[Mandeep Sandhu]

On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 4:08 PM, Sergei
Gavrikov<sergei.gavrikov@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mandeep Sandhu wrote:
>
>> W/o the USB feature and rest of the basic stuff including lwIP stack
>> enabl3d, I'm getting around 1.2MB in size!
>
> Refer eCos FAQ
> http://ecos.sourceware.org/fom-serv/ecos/cache/91.html

wow...that was an eye-opener! :) Thanks!

So...now I need to compile my app...a webserver and see how much
it takes.

-mandeep

>
> $ <prefix>-size app
>
>
> Sergei
>

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Re: [ECOS] ecos memory footprint

[Mandeep Sandhu]

After a lot of help from you all, me the n00b, finally got to compile
my first "hello world" app
for the at91sam7ex board running ecos.

Here's the o/p of arm-eabi-size for my hello app:

~/ecos/ecos-3.0/examples$ arm-eabi-size hello
   text	   data	    bss	    dec	    hex	filename
  34952	   1552	   9480	  45984	   b3a0	hello

So, does this mean my runtime mem usage will be text + bss (i.e around 44KB)?

Thanks as always,
-mandeep

On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 4:33 PM, Mandeep
Sandhu<mandeepsandhu.chd@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 4:08 PM, Sergei
> Gavrikov<sergei.gavrikov@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Mandeep Sandhu wrote:
>>
>>> W/o the USB feature and rest of the basic stuff including lwIP stack
>>> enabl3d, I'm getting around 1.2MB in size!
>>
>> Refer eCos FAQ
>> http://ecos.sourceware.org/fom-serv/ecos/cache/91.html
>
> wow...that was an eye-opener! :) Thanks!
>
> So...now I need to compile my app...a webserver and see how much
> it takes.
>
> -mandeep
>
>>
>> $ <prefix>-size app
>>
>>
>> Sergei
>>
>

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Re: [ECOS] ecos memory footprint

[Mandeep Sandhu]

On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 6:47 PM, Mandeep
Sandhu<mandeepsandhu.chd@gmail.com> wrote:
> After a lot of help from you all, me the n00b, finally got to compile
> my first "hello world" app
> for the at91sam7ex board running ecos.
>
> Here's the o/p of arm-eabi-size for my hello app:
>
> ~/ecos/ecos-3.0/examples$ arm-eabi-size hello
>   text    data     bss     dec     hex filename
>  34952    1552    9480   45984    b3a0 hello
>
> So, does this mean my runtime mem usage will be text + bss (i.e around 44KB)?

Sorry, I meant text+data+bss = 44KB

-mandeep
>
> Thanks as always,
> -mandeep
>
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 4:33 PM, Mandeep
> Sandhu<mandeepsandhu.chd@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 4:08 PM, Sergei
>> Gavrikov<sergei.gavrikov@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Mandeep Sandhu wrote:
>>>
>>>> W/o the USB feature and rest of the basic stuff including lwIP stack
>>>> enabl3d, I'm getting around 1.2MB in size!
>>>
>>> Refer eCos FAQ
>>> http://ecos.sourceware.org/fom-serv/ecos/cache/91.html
>>
>> wow...that was an eye-opener! :) Thanks!
>>
>> So...now I need to compile my app...a webserver and see how much
>> it takes.
>>
>> -mandeep
>>
>>>
>>> $ <prefix>-size app
>>>
>>>
>>> Sergei
>>>
>>
>

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Re: [ECOS] ecos memory footprint

[Sergei Gavrikov]

On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 06:52:36PM +0530, Mandeep Sandhu wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 6:47 PM, Mandeep
> Sandhu<mandeepsandhu.chd@gmail.com> wrote:
> > After a lot of help from you all, me the n00b, finally got to compile
> > my first "hello world" app
> > for the at91sam7ex board running ecos.
> >
> > Here's the o/p of arm-eabi-size for my hello app:
> >
> > ~/ecos/ecos-3.0/examples$ arm-eabi-size hello
> >   text    data     bss     dec     hex filename
> >  34952    1552    9480   45984    b3a0 hello
> >
> > So, does this mean my runtime mem usage will be text + bss (i.e around 44KB)?

if your startup is ROM, that amount of RAM is used will be .data + .bss
and rest of it will be used for heap

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_segment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_segment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.bss
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_memory_allocation

Try 

srm-eabi-ize -Ax appname

to observe ieven more

Sergei


> 
> Sorry, I meant text+data+bss = 44KB
> 
> -mandeep
> >
> > Thanks as always,
> > -mandeep
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 4:33 PM, Mandeep
> > Sandhu<mandeepsandhu.chd@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 4:08 PM, Sergei
> >> Gavrikov<sergei.gavrikov@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Mandeep Sandhu wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> W/o the USB feature and rest of the basic stuff including lwIP stack
> >>>> enabl3d, I'm getting around 1.2MB in size!
> >>>
> >>> Refer eCos FAQ
> >>> http://ecos.sourceware.org/fom-serv/ecos/cache/91.html
> >>
> >> wow...that was an eye-opener! :) Thanks!
> >>
> >> So...now I need to compile my app...a webserver and see how much
> >> it takes.
> >>
> >> -mandeep
> >>
> >>>
> >>> $ <prefix>-size app
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Sergei
> >>>
> >>
> >

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Re: [ECOS] ecos memory footprint

[Andrew Lunn]

On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 06:47:48PM +0530, Mandeep Sandhu wrote:
> After a lot of help from you all, me the n00b, finally got to compile
> my first "hello world" app
> for the at91sam7ex board running ecos.
> 
> Here's the o/p of arm-eabi-size for my hello app:
> 
> ~/ecos/ecos-3.0/examples$ arm-eabi-size hello
>    text	   data	    bss	    dec	    hex	filename
>   34952	   1552	   9480	  45984	   b3a0	hello
> 
> So, does this mean my runtime mem usage will be text + bss (i.e around 44KB)?

For the AT91SAM7 devices, its not that simple. You run code from
FLASH, not RAM. These devices are designed so that FLASH access is
fast, so you can do that. The text segment goes in FLASH, the data and
BSS goes into RAM. A device like the AT91SAM7X256 has 256KB flash and
64KB RAM. So you have used about 15% of your flash and 18% of the RAM.

Note, this may not be 100% accurate. You sometimes end up with two
copies of the data, one in FLASH and one in RAM. eg code like

char hw[] = "hello world";

because it is not a constant string, you have the initialization text
in FLASH, but you also have the variable hw in RAM. However if you had

const char hw[] = "hello world";

you should only end up with one copy in FLASH.

The more accurate way to determine what you are actually using is with
objdump --headers

     Andrew

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Re: [ECOS] ecos memory footprint

[Ross Younger]

Mandeep Sandhu wrote:
> Ok. Any idea how to resolve this dependency? W/o this feature the USB device
> is useless:
> 
> * CYGFUN_DEVS_USB_AT91_EP0 requires CYGPKG_IO_USB and
>   CYGPKG_IO_USB_SLAVE.

Support for USB - and much other functionality, for that matter - is
provided by packages not present in the default eCos configuration. See
http://ecos.sourceware.org/docs-latest/user-guide/config-tool-updating-configuration.html


Ross

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Registered in England no. 4422071.                  www.ecoscentric.com

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Re: [ECOS] ecos memory footprint

[Mandeep Sandhu]

On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Ross Younger<wry@ecoscentric.com> wrote:
> Mandeep Sandhu wrote:
>> Ok. Any idea how to resolve this dependency? W/o this feature the USB device
>> is useless:
>>
>> * CYGFUN_DEVS_USB_AT91_EP0 requires CYGPKG_IO_USB and
>>   CYGPKG_IO_USB_SLAVE.
>
> Support for USB - and much other functionality, for that matter - is
> provided by packages not present in the default eCos configuration. See
> http://ecos.sourceware.org/docs-latest/user-guide/config-tool-updating-configuration.html

I tried selecting from the list of available packages but none of them
offered any package
with CYGPKG_IO_USB and CYGPKG_IO_USB_SLAVE macro's defined.

Should I import these pkg's from elsewhere? Does the config tool give
such facility to
import packages?

-mandeep

>
>
> Ross
>
> --
> Embedded Software Engineer, eCosCentric Limited.
> Barnwell House, Barnwell Drive, Cambridge CB5 8UU, UK.
> Registered in England no. 4422071.                  www.ecoscentric.com
>

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[ECOS] USB on at91sam7xek [ was Re: ecos memory footprint ]

[John Dallaway]

Hi Mandeep

Mandeep Sandhu wrote:

> Ok. Any idea how to resolve this dependency? W/o this feature the USB device
> is useless:
> 
> * CYGFUN_DEVS_USB_AT91_EP0 requires CYGPKG_IO_USB and
>   CYGPKG_IO_USB_SLAVE.

CYGPKG_IO_USB and CYGPKG_IO_USB_SLAVE are _hardware_ packages. They are
accessed by selecting an appropriate eCos _target_ which includes a USB
driver (eg target "pc_usb_d12").

I assume you are experimenting with the at91sam7xek target. The target
record for this target should include the CYGPKG_IO_USB and
CYGPKG_IO_USB_SLAVE packages but they are missing from the package list.
Locate the "target at91sam7xek" record in
/opt/ecos/ecos-3.0/packages/ecos.db and add the missing packages to the
package list.

I will fix this problem in the eCos CVS repository.

John Dallaway

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[ECOS] Re: USB on at91sam7xek [ was Re: ecos memory footprint ]

[Mandeep Sandhu]

> CYGPKG_IO_USB and CYGPKG_IO_USB_SLAVE are _hardware_ packages. They are
> accessed by selecting an appropriate eCos _target_ which includes a USB
> driver (eg target "pc_usb_d12").
>
> I assume you are experimenting with the at91sam7xek target. The target
> record for this target should include the CYGPKG_IO_USB and
> CYGPKG_IO_USB_SLAVE packages but they are missing from the package list.
> Locate the "target at91sam7xek" record in
> /opt/ecos/ecos-3.0/packages/ecos.db and add the missing packages to the
> package list.

Thanks John. That fixed the problem!

-mandeep

>
> I will fix this problem in the eCos CVS repository.
>
> John Dallaway
>

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[ECOS] Re: ecos memory footprint

[Grant Edwards]

On 2009-07-14, Simon Kallweit <simon.kallweit@intefo.ch> wrote:
> Mandeep Sandhu schrieb:
>
>> Anybody knows if ECOS can run in 64KB mem (or lesser) with the
>> following features:
>>
>> * USB Device/slave support
>> * SPI Driver support
>> * Networking support (for running a small webserver)
>>
>> I've not yet narrowed down on my h/w yet...but Microchips
>> PIC32MX460F128H seems promising? But the sad part is that ecos
>> doesn't show this in their list of supported h/w.
>>
>> Have ppl run ecos on microcontrollers w/o external SDRAM (I'm
>> trying to conserve power by not having ext RAM)?
>
> This will be rather tough, but probably possible. You should use the 
> lwIP networking stack to keep memory usage low. Also, try to use as few 
> threads as possible, as this saves you valuable stack memory.

I agree that it's probably possible, but IMO you're going to
spend a lot of time trying to make everything fit -- effort
that could be better spent on developing and testing your
application.  I'd recommend a serious look at using something
intended for a smaller footprint (XMK, FreeRTOS, uC/OS-II, etc.).

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I had pancake makeup
                                  at               for brunch!
                               visi.com            


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Re: [ECOS] Re: ecos memory footprint

[Mandeep Sandhu]

On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 7:51 PM, Grant Edwards<grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2009-07-14, Simon Kallweit <simon.kallweit@intefo.ch> wrote:
>> Mandeep Sandhu schrieb:
>>
>>> Anybody knows if ECOS can run in 64KB mem (or lesser) with the
>>> following features:
>>>
>>> * USB Device/slave support
>>> * SPI Driver support
>>> * Networking support (for running a small webserver)
>>>
>>> I've not yet narrowed down on my h/w yet...but Microchips
>>> PIC32MX460F128H seems promising? But the sad part is that ecos
>>> doesn't show this in their list of supported h/w.
>>>
>>> Have ppl run ecos on microcontrollers w/o external SDRAM (I'm
>>> trying to conserve power by not having ext RAM)?
>>
>> This will be rather tough, but probably possible. You should use the
>> lwIP networking stack to keep memory usage low. Also, try to use as few
>> threads as possible, as this saves you valuable stack memory.
>
> I agree that it's probably possible, but IMO you're going to
> spend a lot of time trying to make everything fit -- effort
> that could be better spent on developing and testing your
> application.  I'd recommend a serious look at using something
> intended for a smaller footprint (XMK, FreeRTOS, uC/OS-II, etc.).

Yes, I'm evaluating FreeRTOS as well for my requirements. I've just
compiled their
sample webserver app for the same Atmel platform. And that doesn't look too good
as well! :(

~/freeRTOS/FreeRTOS/Demo/lwIP_Demo_Rowley_ARM7$ arm-elf-size rtosdemo.elf
   text	   data	    bss	    dec	    hex	filename
 119096	   2016	  62736	 183848	  2ce28	rtosdemo.elf

~/freeRTOS/FreeRTOS/Demo/lwIP_Demo_Rowley_ARM7$ arm-elf-objdump -h rtosdemo.elf

rtosdemo.elf:     file format elf32-littlearm

Sections:
Idx Name          Size      VMA       LMA       File off  Algn
  0 startup       00000044  00100000  00100000  00008000  2**2
                  CONTENTS, ALLOC, LOAD, READONLY, CODE
  1 prog          0001d0f4  00100044  00100044  00008044  2**2
                  CONTENTS, ALLOC, LOAD, READONLY, CODE
  2 .data         000007e0  00200000  0011d138  00028000  2**2
                  CONTENTS, ALLOC, LOAD, DATA
  3 .bss          0000f510  002007e0  002007e0  000287e0  2**3
                  ALLOC
  4 .debug_abbrev 00007274  00000000  00000000  000287e0  2**0
                  CONTENTS, READONLY, DEBUGGING
  5 .debug_info   0002cb4d  00000000  00000000  0002fa54  2**0
                  CONTENTS, READONLY, DEBUGGING
  6 .debug_line   00007e5c  00000000  00000000  0005c5a1  2**0
                  CONTENTS, READONLY, DEBUGGING
  7 .debug_frame  00003400  00000000  00000000  00064400  2**2
                  CONTENTS, READONLY, DEBUGGING
  8 .debug_pubnames 0000213a  00000000  00000000  00067800  2**0
                  CONTENTS, READONLY, DEBUGGING
  9 .debug_aranges 00000ba8  00000000  00000000  00069940  2**3
                  CONTENTS, READONLY, DEBUGGING
 10 .debug_str    00002410  00000000  00000000  0006a4e8  2**0
                  CONTENTS, READONLY, DEBUGGING
 11 .comment      000005fa  00000000  00000000  0006c8f8  2**0
                  CONTENTS, READONLY
 12 .debug_ranges 000001d8  00000000  00000000  0006cef2  2**0
                  CONTENTS, READONLY, DEBUGGING

This does not give the exact figure (as I think the config here does
not have the
SPI driver built-in), but I'm using the results here to just get some
rough comparative
figure vis-a-vis ecos with roughly the same config.

I think i'll have to "up" my RAM  requirements to have at least 256KB
RAM. Though
I'm not sure if i'll be able to meet my price budget constraints.

-mandeep

>
> --
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>                                  at               for brunch!
>                               visi.com
>
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>

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