[ECOS] Redboot (i386pc with IDE Flash)

[ECOS] Redboot (i386pc with IDE Flash)

[bhanuprakash kandimalla]

Hello:
I am working on i386pc. I am succesful in building a
redboot(floppy) and the pc is able to bootup. The
i386pc system has a IDE Flash disk. I am able to build
ecos libraries and able to use fat file system on this
IDE Flash disk. My plan is to put a redboot image on
the IDE Flash disk so that the PC boots from this IDE
flash disk instead of a floppy. I am insearch of
finding solutions for the following:
1. I hope redboot(ROM) or redboot(ROM_RAM) will be
needed. Am I right?
2. If I can put the redboot(ROM).bin or
redboot(ROM_RAM).bin on the IDE Flash Disk and set the
pc BIOS to boot from IDE , will the pc boots up with
the .bin file? or what file or type of file is pc
looking for booting?
Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Thanks a lot,
Bhanu.

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Re: [ECOS] Redboot (i386pc with IDE Flash)

[Nick Garnett]

bhanuprakash kandimalla <kbhanu@yahoo.com> writes:

> Hello:
> I am working on i386pc. I am succesful in building a
> redboot(floppy) and the pc is able to bootup. The
> i386pc system has a IDE Flash disk. I am able to build
> ecos libraries and able to use fat file system on this
> IDE Flash disk. My plan is to put a redboot image on
> the IDE Flash disk so that the PC boots from this IDE
> flash disk instead of a floppy. I am insearch of
> finding solutions for the following:
> 1. I hope redboot(ROM) or redboot(ROM_RAM) will be
> needed. Am I right?

No, as the names of these configurations imply, these are intended for
booting from ROM, not disk.


> 2. If I can put the redboot(ROM).bin or
> redboot(ROM_RAM).bin on the IDE Flash Disk and set the
> pc BIOS to boot from IDE , will the pc boots up with
> the .bin file? or what file or type of file is pc
> looking for booting?
> Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

For booting from IDE disk you should use the GRUB support. Read the
documentation at:

http://ecos.sourceware.org/docs-latest/user-guide/setup-i386-pc.html

-- 
Nick Garnett                    eCos Kernel Architect
http://www.ecoscentric.com/     The eCos and RedBoot experts


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Re: [ECOS] Redboot (i386pc with IDE Flash)

[David Brennan]

Nick,
Can you easily summarize why redboot does not work with GRUB? This is a 
feature that I am going to be looking for in the near future. Is it just 
something that no one has tackled? Or is it impossible for some reason? 
I am working on a VME based PC and have several available target 
machines, but only one floppy. So I want to be able to boot off of CF 
and still load/debug using Ethernet. If this is possible but just needs 
work, can you give me some pointers as to what needs to be done?

Thanks
David Brennan

Nick Garnett wrote:

>bhanuprakash kandimalla <kbhanu@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>  
>
>>Hello:
>>I am working on i386pc. I am succesful in building a
>>redboot(floppy) and the pc is able to bootup. The
>>i386pc system has a IDE Flash disk. I am able to build
>>ecos libraries and able to use fat file system on this
>>IDE Flash disk. My plan is to put a redboot image on
>>the IDE Flash disk so that the PC boots from this IDE
>>flash disk instead of a floppy. I am insearch of
>>finding solutions for the following:
>>1. I hope redboot(ROM) or redboot(ROM_RAM) will be
>>needed. Am I right?
>>    
>>
>
>No, as the names of these configurations imply, these are intended for
>booting from ROM, not disk.
>
>
>  
>
>>2. If I can put the redboot(ROM).bin or
>>redboot(ROM_RAM).bin on the IDE Flash Disk and set the
>>pc BIOS to boot from IDE , will the pc boots up with
>>the .bin file? or what file or type of file is pc
>>looking for booting?
>>Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
>>    
>>
>
>For booting from IDE disk you should use the GRUB support. Read the
>documentation at:
>
>http://ecos.sourceware.org/docs-latest/user-guide/setup-i386-pc.html
>
>  
>

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Re: [ECOS] Redboot (i386pc with IDE Flash)

[Nick Garnett]

David Brennan <eCos@brennanhome.com> writes:

> Nick,
> Can you easily summarize why redboot does not work with GRUB? This is
> a feature that I am going to be looking for in the near future. Is it
> just something that no one has tackled? Or is it impossible for some
> reason? I am working on a VME based PC and have several available
> target machines, but only one floppy. So I want to be able to boot off
> of CF and still load/debug using Ethernet. If this is possible but
> just needs work, can you give me some pointers as to what needs to be
> done?
> 

RAM applications load at the 1MB boundary, so RedBoot needs to live in
the bottom 640k. However, GRUB also uses the bottom 640k, so we would
need to load a GRUB RedBoot above the 1MB boundary. This means that we
would then have to shuffle RAM applications up, probably to 2MB. This
causes an incompatibility, and also means that when not using a GRUB
RedBoot, we waste a megabyte of memory.

We also end up with the silly situation of using a bootloader to load
a bootloader to load the application. It was thought much better to go
straight to the application from GRUB. RedBoot on the PC has much less
functionality than elsewhere since there is no flash. All it can
provide is loading an application from the network, and GDB
support. GRUB can load from the network, and by building the stubs
into the application we get GDB support. So RedBoot is largely
redundant, and no effort has been put into making it work.


-- 
Nick Garnett                    eCos Kernel Architect
http://www.ecoscentric.com/     The eCos and RedBoot experts


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Re: [ECOS] Redboot (i386pc with IDE Flash)

[David Brennan]

Ram size would not be a typical concern in a PC target (I think). We are 
running with 256M of RAM, and probably using less that 64M of that. So 
I'd be willing to try and juggle the memory, if you could point me in 
the correct direction.
Yes, I can load an application with GRUB off the network, but it is not 
as convenient as with GDB. (Need to set up TFTP/FTP server? GRUB 
documentation was not clear on what (ND) was supported when I scanned 
it). But debugging serial would be a real pain. (And one of our apps 
will be using both available serial ports on the board for IO, so in 
that case it will not be feasible.)

Thanks
David Brennan

Nick Garnett wrote:

>David Brennan <eCos@brennanhome.com> writes:
>
>  
>
>>Nick,
>>Can you easily summarize why redboot does not work with GRUB? This is
>>a feature that I am going to be looking for in the near future. Is it
>>just something that no one has tackled? Or is it impossible for some
>>reason? I am working on a VME based PC and have several available
>>target machines, but only one floppy. So I want to be able to boot off
>>of CF and still load/debug using Ethernet. If this is possible but
>>just needs work, can you give me some pointers as to what needs to be
>>done?
>>
>>    
>>
>
>RAM applications load at the 1MB boundary, so RedBoot needs to live in
>the bottom 640k. However, GRUB also uses the bottom 640k, so we would
>need to load a GRUB RedBoot above the 1MB boundary. This means that we
>would then have to shuffle RAM applications up, probably to 2MB. This
>causes an incompatibility, and also means that when not using a GRUB
>RedBoot, we waste a megabyte of memory.
>
>We also end up with the silly situation of using a bootloader to load
>a bootloader to load the application. It was thought much better to go
>straight to the application from GRUB. RedBoot on the PC has much less
>functionality than elsewhere since there is no flash. All it can
>provide is loading an application from the network, and GDB
>support. GRUB can load from the network, and by building the stubs
>into the application we get GDB support. So RedBoot is largely
>redundant, and no effort has been put into making it work.
>
>
>  
>

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Re: [ECOS] Redboot (i386pc with IDE Flash)

[Nick Garnett]

David Brennan <david@brennanhome.com> writes:

> Ram size would not be a typical concern in a PC target (I think). We
> are running with 256M of RAM, and probably using less that 64M of
> that. So I'd be willing to try and juggle the memory, if you could
> point me in the correct direction.

You need to juggle the base address for RAM startup in the mlt
files. You also need to create a redboot_GRUB.ecm file -- copy the
FLOPPY one and edit it. In theory Redboot should then just work --
although I cannot guarantee it, you'll just have to try it and see.


> Yes, I can load an application with GRUB off the network, but it is
> not as convenient as with GDB. (Need to set up TFTP/FTP server? GRUB
> documentation was not clear on what (ND) was supported when I scanned
> it). But debugging serial would be a real pain.

The only real pain in debugging via serial is downloading the
executable. But if you have downloaded via the network, then the
actual interactive debugging over the serial line consists of
relatively light traffic. And you can always put it up to 115200 baud.

-- 
Nick Garnett                    eCos Kernel Architect
http://www.ecoscentric.com/     The eCos and RedBoot experts


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Re: [ECOS] Redboot (i386pc with IDE Flash)

[David Brennan]

Well, I tried it and it seems to work fine for me. I submitted a patch.

http://ecos.sourceware.org/ml/ecos-patches/2004-08/msg00031.html

Thanks for the help
David Brennan

Nick Garnett wrote:

>David Brennan <david@brennanhome.com> writes:
>
>  
>
>>Ram size would not be a typical concern in a PC target (I think). We
>>are running with 256M of RAM, and probably using less that 64M of
>>that. So I'd be willing to try and juggle the memory, if you could
>>point me in the correct direction.
>>    
>>
>
>You need to juggle the base address for RAM startup in the mlt
>files. You also need to create a redboot_GRUB.ecm file -- copy the
>FLOPPY one and edit it. In theory Redboot should then just work --
>although I cannot guarantee it, you'll just have to try it and see.
>
>
>  
>
>>Yes, I can load an application with GRUB off the network, but it is
>>not as convenient as with GDB. (Need to set up TFTP/FTP server? GRUB
>>documentation was not clear on what (ND) was supported when I scanned
>>it). But debugging serial would be a real pain.
>>    
>>
>
>The only real pain in debugging via serial is downloading the
>executable. But if you have downloaded via the network, then the
>actual interactive debugging over the serial line consists of
>relatively light traffic. And you can always put it up to 115200 baud.
>
>  
>

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