From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 59555 invoked by alias); 1 Mar 2016 23:30:31 -0000 Mailing-List: contact ecos-discuss-help@ecos.sourceware.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: , Sender: ecos-discuss-owner@ecos.sourceware.org Received: (qmail 59536 invoked by uid 89); 1 Mar 2016 23:30:30 -0000 Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; auth=none X-Virus-Found: No X-Spam-SWARE-Status: No, score=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_50,FREEMAIL_FROM,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,RP_MATCHES_RCVD,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.3.2 spammy=crashed, proved, remained, sort-of X-HELO: plane.gmane.org Received: from plane.gmane.org (HELO plane.gmane.org) (80.91.229.3) by sourceware.org (qpsmtpd/0.93/v0.84-503-g423c35a) with (AES256-SHA encrypted) ESMTPS; Tue, 01 Mar 2016 23:30:28 +0000 Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aatkG-00087H-6j for ecos-discuss@ecos.sourceware.org; Wed, 02 Mar 2016 00:30:24 +0100 Received: from 67-130-15-94.dia.static.qwest.net ([67.130.15.94]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 02 Mar 2016 00:30:24 +0100 Received: from grant.b.edwards by 67-130-15-94.dia.static.qwest.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 02 Mar 2016 00:30:24 +0100 To: ecos-discuss@ecos.sourceware.org From: Grant Edwards Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2016 23:30:00 -0000 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: slrn/1.0.2 (Linux) X-IsSubscribed: yes Subject: [ECOS] Re: Cyclone V, Nios II, Ecos, hal-synth on Nios - Repost with clean subject line. X-SW-Source: 2016-03/txt/msg00001.txt.bz2 On 2016-03-01, John Carter wrote: >> Congratulations, your purchase of the Altera Nios II Development >> Kit - either the Stratix® II FPGA Edition or the Cyclone® II FPGA >> Edition, entitles you to a free copy of eCosCentric's eCosPro >> Starter Kit. The Starter Kit includes all the necessary tools, >> runtime code and documentation you need to develop royalty and >> license fee free embedded applications running on Altera's Nios II >> core. > > Alas, we have Cyclone V developer kits and intent to deploy on > Cyclone V. > > I have a vague memory of reading or hearing that Altera paid for the > Nios port with the aim of selling more chips. Yep. I was peripherally involved with the initial port of eCos to the NIOS2. At least partially in response to our project's requirements, Altera contracted with somebody to do the basic port to the NIOS2 architecture and write a couple eCos drivers for some peripherals (opencores Ethernet, 16650 UART, ???). The result was a huge mess that was "integrated with" (more like duct-taped onto the side of) eclipse and Quartus. In theory, it was all point-and-grunt and required no actual knowledge of the hardware or experience with eCos or embedded software. [Because those are the types of people you want doing embedded software development, right?] IIRC, there were perl scripts that ran Java apps in order to generated bash scripts that generated Tcl config files [I probably have the order of those things wrong, but I vividly remember it involved Perl, bash, Java, and Tcl]. Just to add to the fun, eclipse and Quartus both crashed frequently and unpredictably. It sort-of worked if you were lucky, the phase of the moon was right, and as long as all you wanted to do was build the demo program for the eval board using one particular set of versions of eclipse, Cygwin, windows, and Quartus that were all installed exactly right. However, as soon as we tried to do anything at all custom, the whole thing collapsed into a useless, smoking heap. After trying for several months (mostly in vain) to work with this system, we decided it just wasn't viable. So, after many weeks of work. I was able to rip off the duct tape and discard eclipse and Quartus. Using (I think) a .pof file, one or two command-line utilities from a Quartus installation, and a home-made bash program, I was able to extract relevent hardware info (e.g. clock speed and addresses of memory and peripherals) from the .pof file and was then able to configure and build eCos in a reliably and repatable manner using normal command line tools. Unfortunately, those Quartus utilities were written in Java, so you still had to have a JRE installed, but at least you didn't need Quartus and eclipse. After that, life got several orders of magnitude easier. After all that effort, the NIOS2 design proved dissappointing. The SDRAM controller didn't seem to have enough bandwidth to support full-duplex 100M Ethernet, throughput was a lot lower than expected [the 66MHz NIOS2 was no faster than the 44MHz ARM7 it was to replace), and the pricing was higher than expected. In the end, we finally abandoned the NIOS2 and went with an off-the-shelf Cortex-M3 part instead. It was a two-chip solution instead of a single-chip solution, but it was 3X as fast for about 1/3 the price. AFAIK, that port of eCos for the NIOS2 was never put into the public eCos source tree, and remained proprietary to Altera (who seem to have licensed it to eCosCentric -- or perhaps that was part of the original deal). I don't know if the eCosCentric port still requires eclipse and Quartus the way the original port did. There appears to be at least one other port: https://github.com/joeynelson/nios2ecos Which I think is related to the old Zylin port. I don't how/if it's related to the original port or to what eCosCentric currently sells. Don't know if that helped or not -- but it made me feel better. :) > So it would make sense that the actual fine print of that deal didn't > limit it to those older generation chips. > > Anybody know for sure? > > Alternately, if that fine print says what it says and is immutable.. > > We could take the open source ecos and rewrite the approximately 800 > lines of i386 assembler into Nios. > > Or perhaps we could create a CPU agnostic version out of signals and > libc getcontext / swapcontext. -- Grant Edwards grant.b.edwards Yow! If Robert Di Niro at assassinates Walter Slezak, gmail.com will Jodie Foster marry Bonzo?? -- Before posting, please read the FAQ: http://ecos.sourceware.org/fom/ecos and search the list archive: http://ecos.sourceware.org/ml/ecos-discuss