From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-pl1-x632.google.com (mail-pl1-x632.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::632]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0D387386E577 for ; Sat, 10 Dec 2022 18:15:27 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.4.1 sourceware.org 0D387386E577 Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=gmail.com Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=gmail.com Received: by mail-pl1-x632.google.com with SMTP id k7so8079415pll.6 for ; Sat, 10 Dec 2022 10:15:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Y9Cab/4tpmN1rh3ahKQbK7/qNmtZZ3nZ8aDBL6B6NHI=; b=qVQllHdO3t/PPiE/6QSfcawPOOMcI2VjVQNr/SmsAXnrDghpLWexzJQ8jJSsvTbosg vg1DPwPgJcRC+HMEt9hLurTOjooX68doepmiwrLjX4+sT9USuMDKePXRyl8KfUfE1s60 XS2pIgZsX90DhyqXrf8mESavCzhuxkKaPKjlPZ1ES/tIKrPv7PKYuRabtVNj/7SCxlgA aq1XmJp0J29ofzEDQMxpXfeoXGTi5tbiKnl+TYLIBco/0A6d4oqgx/6L3tMUhVU8rWuK VVfo3WnRHLKq7ucCPgWkahlAVzF1YDxlTkpatUw7F60bSTJcKj2I5XdQcaHsqeZZosnS QYXA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Y9Cab/4tpmN1rh3ahKQbK7/qNmtZZ3nZ8aDBL6B6NHI=; b=ddPlTgEhF4AxqMNZDj+0voQsRBDgalH4x2IK3f43qk7Pb8MmkvDXJJkQfZ2dz0ug76 IvOUpgblFvireIodKL1TZ7RlLkmm2gen8z8Ed4/kFtbLZoU50wKyBQixZofyFzf+aYqk DSvvwpFfqLpf/cgUvubOPiFiw3UbZ0w5/u658TfWNYG7C5lRjFrvRF57bMYEOiMUby4p ElSgXmytwXG3abDynJomwDC5EHI2ftn9KyqgXLL/qg4EmS+HBVX3jconvUcXg6WzCIVB 57QGZ659v7jisShrMcbH66apFKu0trvG0kermF5Q7Sczh581e0EFKpu+/04uqjUVFdma oatw== X-Gm-Message-State: ANoB5pmIraCCdpvLgMRO7+DlGVZ/U00KXSHeR+PJwoFZiE86md5Xf1kn DR0ORgIBdNeqHPQwDZaEIF4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA0mqf6qgj5AJ+OavzV7ojgJV5CALYorHPT+M08rcX/qECJbM3A78cmGp/9SXJ1DKhYd00pWIBSgEw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:1208:b0:218:c566:a55f with SMTP id f8-20020a17090a120800b00218c566a55fmr2184159pja.1.1670696125825; Sat, 10 Dec 2022 10:15:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.20] ([50.37.188.226]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k30-20020a17090a4ca100b0020a11217682sm2781044pjh.27.2022.12.10.10.15.25 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 10 Dec 2022 10:15:25 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2022 10:15:24 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.5.1 Subject: Re: Team Collaboration Considerations Content-Language: en-US To: Tobias Burnus , sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, fortran , Jerry DeLisle Cc: Benson Muite References: <6e48ab2c-f006-c57f-db39-2b3efb6b30a4@gmail.com> From: Jerry D In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT,FREEMAIL_FROM,NICE_REPLY_A,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,TXREP autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.6 (2021-04-09) on server2.sourceware.org List-Id: On 12/8/22 9:25 AM, Tobias Burnus wrote: > Hi, > > On 08.12.22 17:27, Steve Kargl via Fortran wrote: >> On Wed, Dec 07, 2022 at 05:54:40PM -0800, Jerry D via Fortran wrote: >>> Other than Benson, I have received no sign of any interest from >>> gfortran >>> developers to adopt a teaming/collaboration platform.  I am a bit >>> disappointed. Maybe my intent was misunderstood.  I am not suggesting >>> replacing the email approval process but there are many other >>> features of >>> these platforms, in particular, communication efficiency that would >>> be very >>> helpful. > > I personally do not have a strong preference for any. But every > additional communication channel costs time time (setting up, tracking > discussions etc.) and it is not really clear what's the benefits vs. > costs ratio. For myself, a clear benefit is at a glance on my phone I can know if there is activity and i can reply on the fly while I am at work or whereever, or reply later as i choose without having to scan my emails > > I don't mind adding yet another channel to watch, but I cannot guarantee > that I will be able to actively follow it. If it is not high volume and > I get some notification that something has changed by email, it might > work – or if it is interesting/often enough used, I might log in from > time to time – but otherwise it will simply get ignored. Not due to not > being interested but due to having too much else on to do. > Understood, we all have this issue. >>> I will keep the Mattermost workspace. If anyone want to join send me >>> your >>> email and I will send you an invite. > Let's try it – please send an invite. I wiil start sending invites. I am learning this thing myself.  I will also post to Fortran Discourse occasionally to see if anyone new may be interested in getting invited as well.  I have in mind the possibilities of this being a mentoring tool for any newer persons and a 'give me hint' place for the long timers trying to remember where this or that was in the code etc. > >> I think you're seeing the effects of the move to git and an aging >> base of contributors. > > I don't think that moving to 'git' really causes the problem – nor the > move to C++, given that is is not really visible in most code. I think > the main problem is that most things do work and attracting a new > contributor is always difficult. Google Summer of Code was one > successful way, but attracting contributors is not trivial. Yes, I do not see git as the main issue. I use it often at work.  I also use C, C++, C#, Python, and some others on occasion.  The only trick is jumping between the various eye candy features. Code is code, but then i am sort of a generalist which is why sometime i get stuck in details. LOL > > This year, two were interested working on gfortran but at the end it did > not work out – despite me spending quite some time to guide them to get > started. If you can send me contact information on people.  Maybe I can invite them to the Mattermost. (Up to you of course) > >> Occasionally, Thomas >> and I offer up patches, but this occurs in a rather sparse manner. >> In fact, if I fix a bug, the patch is attached to the bugzilla report >> where it sits until Harald stumbles across it or it bit rots. >> ... >> "I don't have time" > Totally understand this issue. > I think we have three areas: bug fixes (where Harald does an awesome > job), cleanup/restructuring of some bad design, and new features (mainly > but not only F2018). The problem with the second item is that it takes > quite some work for little visible benefit; we do some bits here and > there for bug fixes (or for TS29113) but nothing larger. Likewise for > F2018, some low-hanging fruits are easily done, but some larger > development work is really due. > > I still intend to do more on the gfortran side, but I am rather busy on > the OpenMP side (code, specification meetings including filing issues > and creating spec patches) and things like working on gfortran competes > with fixing other GCC issues (a pragma, documentation, long-standing > other Bugzilla bugs), fixing issues in external testsuites/libraries, > GSoC mentoring, internal mentoring etc. I still hope that I will do more > non-OpenMP gfortran work but it does not look as if I will do a lot any > time soon. > > Tobias > Your contributions have always been very appreciated. Jerry