From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from esa2.mentor.iphmx.com (esa2.mentor.iphmx.com [68.232.141.98]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4C0F2391B463 for ; Thu, 8 Dec 2022 17:25:17 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.4.1 sourceware.org 4C0F2391B463 Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=codesourcery.com Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=mentor.com X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.96,227,1665475200"; d="scan'208";a="89465572" Received: from orw-gwy-01-in.mentorg.com ([192.94.38.165]) by esa2.mentor.iphmx.com with ESMTP; 08 Dec 2022 09:25:16 -0800 IronPort-SDR: I8vRgBovT+Iq4cyQzIpxoymRCPMJUr7HxHx8gw5vJKQtErFVvySR7/TOUdsVaR6FaYEhuijs7i Iiqn2rncN9phycG4toug9nInAAkwnVHHVSChyvTG2ZjEZM4rNGMlb1Ow29MGZ5CGPQ1QPyqJvU jrC1/EAlyYKYTxJDg91XWZOvwZ31iMDKTZMHy/rTpUEKMHpe/bORNKz62j4+enrnG30bZS5tn/ VVTvyEL0HcsyXCvZ+Jjp42xGW1fiOW67ugkoG7BJySTiOFiEhc8Qwmsa+9ZI+0+rNfsJuvTImS QY4= Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2022 18:25:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.5.1 Subject: Re: Team Collaboration Considerations Content-Language: en-US To: , fortran , Jerry DeLisle CC: Benson Muite References: <6e48ab2c-f006-c57f-db39-2b3efb6b30a4@gmail.com> From: Tobias Burnus In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Originating-IP: [137.202.0.90] X-ClientProxiedBy: svr-ies-mbx-15.mgc.mentorg.com (139.181.222.15) To svr-ies-mbx-12.mgc.mentorg.com (139.181.222.12) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,KAM_DMARC_STATUS,NICE_REPLY_A,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS,TXREP autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.6 (2021-04-09) on server2.sourceware.org List-Id: Hi, On 08.12.22 17:27, Steve Kargl via Fortran wrote: > On Wed, Dec 07, 2022 at 05:54:40PM -0800, Jerry D via Fortran wrote: >> Other than Benson, I have received no sign of any interest from gfortran >> developers to adopt a teaming/collaboration platform. I am a bit >> disappointed. Maybe my intent was misunderstood. I am not suggesting >> replacing the email approval process but there are many other features o= f >> these platforms, in particular, communication efficiency that would be v= ery >> helpful. I personally do not have a strong preference for any. But every additional communication channel costs time time (setting up, tracking discussions etc.) and it is not really clear what's the benefits vs. costs ratio. I don't mind adding yet another channel to watch, but I cannot guarantee that I will be able to actively follow it. If it is not high volume and I get some notification that something has changed by email, it might work =E2=80=93 or if it is interesting/often enough used, I might log in fr= om time to time =E2=80=93 but otherwise it will simply get ignored. Not due to= not being interested but due to having too much else on to do. >> I will keep the Mattermost workspace. If anyone want to join send me yo= ur >> email and I will send you an invite. Let's try it =E2=80=93 please send an invite. > I think you're seeing the effects of the move to git and an aging > base of contributors. I don't think that moving to 'git' really causes the problem =E2=80=93 nor = the move to C++, given that is is not really visible in most code. I think the main problem is that most things do work and attracting a new contributor is always difficult. Google Summer of Code was one successful way, but attracting contributors is not trivial. This year, two were interested working on gfortran but at the end it did not work out =E2=80=93 despite me spending quite some time to guide them to= get started. > Occasionally, Thomas > and I offer up patches, but this occurs in a rather sparse manner. > In fact, if I fix a bug, the patch is attached to the bugzilla report > where it sits until Harald stumbles across it or it bit rots. > ... > "I don't have time" I think we have three areas: bug fixes (where Harald does an awesome job), cleanup/restructuring of some bad design, and new features (mainly but not only F2018). The problem with the second item is that it takes quite some work for little visible benefit; we do some bits here and there for bug fixes (or for TS29113) but nothing larger. Likewise for F2018, some low-hanging fruits are easily done, but some larger development work is really due. I still intend to do more on the gfortran side, but I am rather busy on the OpenMP side (code, specification meetings including filing issues and creating spec patches) and things like working on gfortran competes with fixing other GCC issues (a pragma, documentation, long-standing other Bugzilla bugs), fixing issues in external testsuites/libraries, GSoC mentoring, internal mentoring etc. I still hope that I will do more non-OpenMP gfortran work but it does not look as if I will do a lot any time soon. Tobias ----------------- Siemens Electronic Design Automation GmbH; Anschrift: Arnulfstra=C3=9Fe 201= , 80634 M=C3=BCnchen; Gesellschaft mit beschr=C3=A4nkter Haftung; Gesch=C3= =A4ftsf=C3=BChrer: Thomas Heurung, Frank Th=C3=BCrauf; Sitz der Gesellschaf= t: M=C3=BCnchen; Registergericht M=C3=BCnchen, HRB 106955