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* meeting
@ 2008-07-22 21:21 Tom Tromey
  2008-07-23 20:04 ` meeting Tom Tromey
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Tom Tromey @ 2008-07-22 21:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Frysk List

I reset the bridge using a trick to try to work around its timezone
woes.  I used this successfully once last week -- I hope it works
again tomorrow.

Dial-in information is the same as last week:

http://sourceware.org/ml/frysk/2008-q3/msg00054.html


My agenda items are:

* Discuss gdb decision.
* Next steps:
  - Decide mailing list choice
  - Set up git repo
  - Discuss process
  - Roadmap kick-off

Feel free to add something to the agenda, just follow-up on list.

As usual, in case of snafu, meet on #frysk.  Eric is out of town so if
we need a backup, either someone else will have to provide it, or we
will just have to meet on irc.

thanks,
Tom

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: meeting
  2008-07-22 21:21 meeting Tom Tromey
@ 2008-07-23 20:04 ` Tom Tromey
  2008-07-23 20:39   ` meeting Tom Tromey
                     ` (3 more replies)
  0 siblings, 4 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Tom Tromey @ 2008-07-23 20:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Frysk List

Tom> I reset the bridge using a trick to try to work around its
Tom> timezone woes.  I used this successfully once last week -- I hope
Tom> it works again tomorrow.

It did, yay.

Tom> My agenda items are:
[...]

Some outcomes:

* Thiago is happy with the decision.  As far as we can tell he was the
  only non-RH person on the call.

* There is some confusion about our relationship to gdb.  This is
  understandable, IMO, since it is a bit vague.  Basically I think the
  best way to think about this project is that it is a development
  branch with reasonably specific goals (see the earlier threads).

* Speaking of the goals, an action item for everyone is to look at the
  roadmap and see (1) if anything is missing, and (2) what you are
  interested in working on.

  For #1, Sami asked about the state of non-stop multi-thread
  debugging.  There are patches on the list.  Andrew asked about the
  multi-process work, but we don't really know enough about it yet --
  the discussion on the gdb list seems to be preliminary
  investigation.

* There was general consensus that we should not reuse the frysk list
  for this work.  So, we will set up a new list.  Project name ideas
  that I remember:

  gdb--

  Hmm, that is the only one I wrote down, but I know Phil had another
  one.

  "--" seems a bit dismal to me, but "++" seems a bit arrogant :)
  How about "Project Pelican"?

  Or anything else.  Please.

  I'd like to settle this today, so...  respond.

* Where to host?  Lots of hosting choices out there, but sourceware
  seems like the default.  We all have accounts, we have access, etc.
  I'd like to get things set up ASAP, say today.

* Talked about source control some.  Jim Meyering is setting up a git
  mirror of gdb CVS.  We'll use this as our upstream and have our own
  git repository.

  Andrew brought up gdb's eventual move to svn.  We can revisit our
  choices if/when that happens.

* We talked about our planned process.

  The basic change is introducing universal patch review.  The scratch
  idea is:

  - All patches must be reviewed by someone other than the author.
  - I forgot to mention this, but Apache-like, a strong objection
    should stall a patch until a rough consensus is reached.
  - Anybody "in the project" can review a patch.  In fact, I think it
    is pretty important that everybody do reviews.
  - Proposed patch review guidelines:
    * Does it have internal documentation (comments)?
    * Does it follow upstream coding style?
    * Does it have external documentation, if needed?
    * Does it have a test case, if needed?
    * Is it clear/complete/etc?

  Andrew asked about how we will decide to accept new contributors
  into the fold.  I think we'll solve this when it comes up.

* Action items, for me:
  - Set up hosting, mailing list
  - Send consolidated roadmap to the new list
    (Probably process stuff too)
  - Send announcement to gdb list

Tom

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: meeting
  2008-07-23 20:04 ` meeting Tom Tromey
@ 2008-07-23 20:39   ` Tom Tromey
  2008-07-23 21:10   ` meeting Phil Muldoon
                     ` (2 subsequent siblings)
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Tom Tromey @ 2008-07-23 20:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Frysk List

>>>>> "Tom" == Tom Tromey <tromey@redhat.com> writes:

Tom> * Where to host?  Lots of hosting choices out there, but sourceware
Tom>   seems like the default.  We all have accounts, we have access, etc.
Tom>   I'd like to get things set up ASAP, say today.

Oh, yeah -- for irc, I suggest we use the existing gdb channel.
If we are too noisy we can always make a new one later.
It is irc.freenode.net #gdb

Tom

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: meeting
  2008-07-23 20:04 ` meeting Tom Tromey
  2008-07-23 20:39   ` meeting Tom Tromey
@ 2008-07-23 21:10   ` Phil Muldoon
  2008-07-25 13:11     ` meeting Elena Zannoni
  2008-07-23 22:12   ` meeting Tom Tromey
  2008-07-25 13:06   ` meeting Elena Zannoni
  3 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Phil Muldoon @ 2008-07-23 21:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Tom Tromey; +Cc: Frysk List


> * Where to host?  Lots of hosting choices out there, but sourceware
>   seems like the default.  We all have accounts, we have access, etc.
>   I'd like to get things set up ASAP, say today.
>
>   
As neutral a place as possible, without any distro or company related 
connotations if possible . We have folks that can admin sourceware.org 
and it has proven highly successful as a place to host, develop and 
promote open source software. That is my vote.

>   - All patches must be reviewed by someone other than the author.
>   - I forgot to mention this, but Apache-like, a strong objection
>     should stall a patch until a rough consensus is reached.
>   

Is the +1, -1 or (abstain) system?

>   - Proposed patch review guidelines:
>     * Does it have internal documentation (comments)?
>     * Does it follow upstream coding style?
>     * Does it have external documentation, if needed?
>     * Does it have a test case, if needed?
>     * Is it clear/complete/etc?
>
>   

Does it cause regressions to the existing test suite? Though this should 
be formed as a promise from the user that testing has occurred, re meeting.

Regards

Phil

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: meeting
  2008-07-23 20:04 ` meeting Tom Tromey
  2008-07-23 20:39   ` meeting Tom Tromey
  2008-07-23 21:10   ` meeting Phil Muldoon
@ 2008-07-23 22:12   ` Tom Tromey
  2008-07-24 18:45     ` meeting Tom Tromey
  2008-07-25 13:06   ` meeting Elena Zannoni
  3 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Tom Tromey @ 2008-07-23 22:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Frysk List

>>>>> "Tom" == Tom Tromey <tromey@redhat.com> writes:

Tom> Project name ideas that I remember:
Tom>   gdb--
Tom>   How about "Project Pelican"?

After a discussion spanning #frysk and #gdb, we collectively settled
on "archer".  The archer fish is the gdb mascot:

    http://sourceware.org/gdb/mascot/

Competing suggestions, including "Inspector C++" and "Toxotes
jaculatrix", were shot down.

I'll get a new list set up, and announced here, as soon as possible.

Tom

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: meeting
  2008-07-23 22:12   ` meeting Tom Tromey
@ 2008-07-24 18:45     ` Tom Tromey
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Tom Tromey @ 2008-07-24 18:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Frysk List

Tom> I'll get a new list set up, and announced here, as soon as possible.

The new list is ready.  It is:  archer at sourceware dot org.

Please subscribe!  You can either send email to the -subscribe
address, as usual, or you can fill out the form on this page using
"archer" as the list name:

    http://sourceware.org/lists.html

(I tried the former, not the latter, fwiw.)

I also made a new page in the gdb wiki:

    http://sourceware.org/gdb/wiki/ProjectArcher

For the time being it is basically a placeholder.

I'll give folks a bit of time to get subscribed and then send out
email to the new list about the roadmap and the process.  After an
iteration of this, we can update the wiki.

thanks,
Tom

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: meeting
  2008-07-23 20:04 ` meeting Tom Tromey
                     ` (2 preceding siblings ...)
  2008-07-23 22:12   ` meeting Tom Tromey
@ 2008-07-25 13:06   ` Elena Zannoni
  2008-07-25 16:33     ` meeting Tom Tromey
  2008-07-27 14:49     ` meeting Eric Bachalo
  3 siblings, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Elena Zannoni @ 2008-07-25 13:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Tom Tromey; +Cc: Frysk List

Thanks for posting the minutes, I was out of town.
I have a question, what is Redhat's position on the versions of frysk 
shipped with
fedora and RHEL? They were tech previews, but are they going to be kept 
there?
or obsoleted? Or?

elena


Tom Tromey wrote:
> Tom> I reset the bridge using a trick to try to work around its
> Tom> timezone woes.  I used this successfully once last week -- I hope
> Tom> it works again tomorrow.
>
> It did, yay.
>
> Tom> My agenda items are:
> [...]
>
> Some outcomes:
>
> * Thiago is happy with the decision.  As far as we can tell he was the
>   only non-RH person on the call.
>
> * There is some confusion about our relationship to gdb.  This is
>   understandable, IMO, since it is a bit vague.  Basically I think the
>   best way to think about this project is that it is a development
>   branch with reasonably specific goals (see the earlier threads).
>
> * Speaking of the goals, an action item for everyone is to look at the
>   roadmap and see (1) if anything is missing, and (2) what you are
>   interested in working on.
>
>   For #1, Sami asked about the state of non-stop multi-thread
>   debugging.  There are patches on the list.  Andrew asked about the
>   multi-process work, but we don't really know enough about it yet --
>   the discussion on the gdb list seems to be preliminary
>   investigation.
>
> * There was general consensus that we should not reuse the frysk list
>   for this work.  So, we will set up a new list.  Project name ideas
>   that I remember:
>
>   gdb--
>
>   Hmm, that is the only one I wrote down, but I know Phil had another
>   one.
>
>   "--" seems a bit dismal to me, but "++" seems a bit arrogant :)
>   How about "Project Pelican"?
>
>   Or anything else.  Please.
>
>   I'd like to settle this today, so...  respond.
>
> * Where to host?  Lots of hosting choices out there, but sourceware
>   seems like the default.  We all have accounts, we have access, etc.
>   I'd like to get things set up ASAP, say today.
>
> * Talked about source control some.  Jim Meyering is setting up a git
>   mirror of gdb CVS.  We'll use this as our upstream and have our own
>   git repository.
>
>   Andrew brought up gdb's eventual move to svn.  We can revisit our
>   choices if/when that happens.
>
> * We talked about our planned process.
>
>   The basic change is introducing universal patch review.  The scratch
>   idea is:
>
>   - All patches must be reviewed by someone other than the author.
>   - I forgot to mention this, but Apache-like, a strong objection
>     should stall a patch until a rough consensus is reached.
>   - Anybody "in the project" can review a patch.  In fact, I think it
>     is pretty important that everybody do reviews.
>   - Proposed patch review guidelines:
>     * Does it have internal documentation (comments)?
>     * Does it follow upstream coding style?
>     * Does it have external documentation, if needed?
>     * Does it have a test case, if needed?
>     * Is it clear/complete/etc?
>
>   Andrew asked about how we will decide to accept new contributors
>   into the fold.  I think we'll solve this when it comes up.
>
> * Action items, for me:
>   - Set up hosting, mailing list
>   - Send consolidated roadmap to the new list
>     (Probably process stuff too)
>   - Send announcement to gdb list
>
> Tom
>
>   


-- 
Elena Zannoni, Oracle
Senior Engineering Manager, Tools/Languages - Linux Engineering
Blog: http://blogs.oracle.com/ezannoni
Email: elena.zannoni@oracle.com

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: meeting
  2008-07-23 21:10   ` meeting Phil Muldoon
@ 2008-07-25 13:11     ` Elena Zannoni
  2008-07-25 16:32       ` meeting Tom Tromey
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Elena Zannoni @ 2008-07-25 13:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Phil Muldoon; +Cc: Tom Tromey, Frysk List

Questions/comments:
1. how come not just a simple branch of gdb? It would seem the simplest 
alternative for doing merges?

2. I think a wise idea would be to settle on a set of host/targets 
combinations that should always work on
archer. Ie those should be tested before doing a check in.

elena


Phil Muldoon wrote:
>
>> * Where to host?  Lots of hosting choices out there, but sourceware
>>   seems like the default.  We all have accounts, we have access, etc.
>>   I'd like to get things set up ASAP, say today.
>>
>>   
> As neutral a place as possible, without any distro or company related 
> connotations if possible . We have folks that can admin sourceware.org 
> and it has proven highly successful as a place to host, develop and 
> promote open source software. That is my vote.
>
>>   - All patches must be reviewed by someone other than the author.
>>   - I forgot to mention this, but Apache-like, a strong objection
>>     should stall a patch until a rough consensus is reached.
>>   
>
> Is the +1, -1 or (abstain) system?
>
>>   - Proposed patch review guidelines:
>>     * Does it have internal documentation (comments)?
>>     * Does it follow upstream coding style?
>>     * Does it have external documentation, if needed?
>>     * Does it have a test case, if needed?
>>     * Is it clear/complete/etc?
>>
>>   
>
> Does it cause regressions to the existing test suite? Though this 
> should be formed as a promise from the user that testing has occurred, 
> re meeting.
>
> Regards
>
> Phil
>


-- 
Elena Zannoni, Oracle
Senior Engineering Manager, Tools/Languages - Linux Engineering
Blog: http://blogs.oracle.com/ezannoni
Email: elena.zannoni@oracle.com

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: meeting
  2008-07-25 13:11     ` meeting Elena Zannoni
@ 2008-07-25 16:32       ` Tom Tromey
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Tom Tromey @ 2008-07-25 16:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Elena Zannoni; +Cc: Phil Muldoon, Frysk List, Project Archer

[ CCing archer list ]

Elena> 1. how come not just a simple branch of gdb? It would seem the
Elena> simplest alternative for doing merges?

CVS is a pain to work with.

Elena> 2. I think a wise idea would be to settle on a set of host/targets
Elena> combinations that should always work on
Elena> archer. Ie those should be tested before doing a check in.

Perhaps we can solve it after the fact by running auto-builders and
asking people to fix any regressions they inadvertently introduce.

Or maybe we could try to have some kind of multi-machine patch testing
queue.

I would like to avoid having a lot of individual overhead on each
patch; many patches will be architecture-neutral.  So, automation at
some point in the process is important.

Tom

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: meeting
  2008-07-25 13:06   ` meeting Elena Zannoni
@ 2008-07-25 16:33     ` Tom Tromey
  2008-07-27 14:49     ` meeting Eric Bachalo
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Tom Tromey @ 2008-07-25 16:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Elena Zannoni; +Cc: Frysk List

>>>>> "Elena" == Elena Zannoni <elena.zannoni@oracle.com> writes:

Elena> Thanks for posting the minutes, I was out of town.  I have a
Elena> question, what is Redhat's position on the versions of frysk
Elena> shipped with fedora and RHEL? They were tech previews, but are
Elena> they going to be kept there?  or obsoleted? Or?

I don't know.  I will ask Eric when he returns from his vacation.

Tom

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: meeting
  2008-07-25 13:06   ` meeting Elena Zannoni
  2008-07-25 16:33     ` meeting Tom Tromey
@ 2008-07-27 14:49     ` Eric Bachalo
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Eric Bachalo @ 2008-07-27 14:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Elena Zannoni; +Cc: Tom Tromey, Frysk List

Elena Zannoni wrote:
> Thanks for posting the minutes, I was out of town.
> I have a question, what is Redhat's position on the versions of frysk
> shipped with
> fedora and RHEL? They were tech previews, but are they going to be kept
> there?
> or obsoleted? Or?

Good questions.  I don't have answers today, but answers to these
questions will be forthcoming,

- Eric

> 
> elena
> 
> 
> Tom Tromey wrote:
>> Tom> I reset the bridge using a trick to try to work around its
>> Tom> timezone woes.  I used this successfully once last week -- I hope
>> Tom> it works again tomorrow.
>>
>> It did, yay.
>>
>> Tom> My agenda items are:
>> [...]
>>
>> Some outcomes:
>>
>> * Thiago is happy with the decision.  As far as we can tell he was the
>>   only non-RH person on the call.
>>
>> * There is some confusion about our relationship to gdb.  This is
>>   understandable, IMO, since it is a bit vague.  Basically I think the
>>   best way to think about this project is that it is a development
>>   branch with reasonably specific goals (see the earlier threads).
>>
>> * Speaking of the goals, an action item for everyone is to look at the
>>   roadmap and see (1) if anything is missing, and (2) what you are
>>   interested in working on.
>>
>>   For #1, Sami asked about the state of non-stop multi-thread
>>   debugging.  There are patches on the list.  Andrew asked about the
>>   multi-process work, but we don't really know enough about it yet --
>>   the discussion on the gdb list seems to be preliminary
>>   investigation.
>>
>> * There was general consensus that we should not reuse the frysk list
>>   for this work.  So, we will set up a new list.  Project name ideas
>>   that I remember:
>>
>>   gdb--
>>
>>   Hmm, that is the only one I wrote down, but I know Phil had another
>>   one.
>>
>>   "--" seems a bit dismal to me, but "++" seems a bit arrogant :)
>>   How about "Project Pelican"?
>>
>>   Or anything else.  Please.
>>
>>   I'd like to settle this today, so...  respond.
>>
>> * Where to host?  Lots of hosting choices out there, but sourceware
>>   seems like the default.  We all have accounts, we have access, etc.
>>   I'd like to get things set up ASAP, say today.
>>
>> * Talked about source control some.  Jim Meyering is setting up a git
>>   mirror of gdb CVS.  We'll use this as our upstream and have our own
>>   git repository.
>>
>>   Andrew brought up gdb's eventual move to svn.  We can revisit our
>>   choices if/when that happens.
>>
>> * We talked about our planned process.
>>
>>   The basic change is introducing universal patch review.  The scratch
>>   idea is:
>>
>>   - All patches must be reviewed by someone other than the author.
>>   - I forgot to mention this, but Apache-like, a strong objection
>>     should stall a patch until a rough consensus is reached.
>>   - Anybody "in the project" can review a patch.  In fact, I think it
>>     is pretty important that everybody do reviews.
>>   - Proposed patch review guidelines:
>>     * Does it have internal documentation (comments)?
>>     * Does it follow upstream coding style?
>>     * Does it have external documentation, if needed?
>>     * Does it have a test case, if needed?
>>     * Is it clear/complete/etc?
>>
>>   Andrew asked about how we will decide to accept new contributors
>>   into the fold.  I think we'll solve this when it comes up.
>>
>> * Action items, for me:
>>   - Set up hosting, mailing list
>>   - Send consolidated roadmap to the new list
>>     (Probably process stuff too)
>>   - Send announcement to gdb list
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>   
> 
> 


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2008-07-27 14:49 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 11+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2008-07-22 21:21 meeting Tom Tromey
2008-07-23 20:04 ` meeting Tom Tromey
2008-07-23 20:39   ` meeting Tom Tromey
2008-07-23 21:10   ` meeting Phil Muldoon
2008-07-25 13:11     ` meeting Elena Zannoni
2008-07-25 16:32       ` meeting Tom Tromey
2008-07-23 22:12   ` meeting Tom Tromey
2008-07-24 18:45     ` meeting Tom Tromey
2008-07-25 13:06   ` meeting Elena Zannoni
2008-07-25 16:33     ` meeting Tom Tromey
2008-07-27 14:49     ` meeting Eric Bachalo

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