* [Bug other/23541] all error messages produce segfault ICE
[not found] <bug-23541-6526@http.gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/>
@ 2005-10-15 16:40 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
2005-10-15 16:40 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
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From: ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org @ 2005-10-15 16:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: gcc-bugs
------- Comment #9 from ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org 2005-10-15 16:39 -------
*** Bug 24039 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
--
ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CC| |heas at shrubbery dot net
http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=23541
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2005-10-15 16:40 ` [Bug other/23541] all error messages produce segfault ICE ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
@ 2005-10-15 16:40 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
2006-01-04 9:16 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
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From: ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org @ 2005-10-15 16:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: gcc-bugs
------- Comment #10 from ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org 2005-10-15 16:40 -------
Investigating.
--
ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CC|ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot|
|org |
AssignedTo|unassigned at gcc dot gnu |ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot
|dot org |org
Status|WAITING |ASSIGNED
Ever Confirmed|0 |1
Last reconfirmed|0000-00-00 00:00:00 |2005-10-15 16:40:14
date| |
http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=23541
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2005-10-15 16:40 ` [Bug other/23541] all error messages produce segfault ICE ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
2005-10-15 16:40 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
@ 2006-01-04 9:16 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
2006-01-04 9:17 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
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From: ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org @ 2006-01-04 9:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: gcc-bugs
------- Comment #11 from ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org 2006-01-04 09:15 -------
*** Bug 25602 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
--
ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CC| |alex at milivojevic dot org
http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=23541
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2006-01-04 9:16 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
@ 2006-01-04 9:17 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
2006-01-04 9:56 ` [Bug other/23541] all error messages produce segfault ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
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From: ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org @ 2006-01-04 9:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: gcc-bugs
------- Comment #12 from ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org 2006-01-04 09:16 -------
*** Bug 25200 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
--
ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CC| |andreas at florath dot net
http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=23541
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` (3 preceding siblings ...)
2006-01-04 9:17 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
@ 2006-01-04 9:56 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
2006-01-04 15:03 ` alex at milivojevic dot org
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From: ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org @ 2006-01-04 9:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: gcc-bugs
------- Comment #13 from ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org 2006-01-04 09:56 -------
OK, all this mess comes from the following lines in /usr/include/locale.h:
#if (__STDC__ - 0 == 0 && \
!defined(_XOPEN_SOURCE) && !defined(_POSIX_C_SOURCE)) || \
defined(__EXTENSIONS__)
#include <libintl.h>
#endif
They cause libgnuintl.h to be included (under the name intl/libintl.h) before
gettextP.h in dgettext.c:
#include <locale.h>
#include "gettextP.h"
#ifdef _LIBC
# include <libintl.h>
#else
# include "libgnuintl.h"
#endif
so no libintl_* function gets ever declared.
--
ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Summary|all error messages produce |all error messages produce
|segfault ICE |segfault
http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=23541
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2006-01-04 9:56 ` [Bug other/23541] all error messages produce segfault ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
@ 2006-01-04 15:03 ` alex at milivojevic dot org
2006-01-04 16:01 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
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From: alex at milivojevic dot org @ 2006-01-04 15:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: gcc-bugs
------- Comment #14 from alex at milivojevic dot org 2006-01-04 15:03 -------
Benjamin:
You are not alone. I hit that bug too ;-)
Andrew:
I can reproduce the bug on my system. I haven't done anything fancy. And I
made sure only standard Solaris header files/libraries were visible while
bootstrapping the compiler (too bootstrap 64-bit build, I used intermediate
32-bit build that had --with-local-prefix pointing to an empty area, and again
when bootstrapping 64-bit build I used --with-local-prefix pointing to
different empty area). So, it is not just Benjamin's configuration. Could be
that Eric had some additional conflicting header files in search path in front
of standard Solaris ones (in other words, he built on "dirty" system).
Actually, the bug prevents bootstrapping objc and java languages too (only c
and c++ can be built). I haven't attempted bootstrapping fortran and ada, so I
can't tell if they are affected.
Eric:
Hmmm... If in dgettext.c I simply change the order the files are included,
would that solve the problem? Or the fix is going to be more complex?
--
http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=23541
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` (5 preceding siblings ...)
2006-01-04 15:03 ` alex at milivojevic dot org
@ 2006-01-04 16:01 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
2006-01-04 19:55 ` alex at milivojevic dot org
` (15 subsequent siblings)
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From: ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org @ 2006-01-04 16:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: gcc-bugs
------- Comment #15 from ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org 2006-01-04 16:01 -------
> Hmmm... If in dgettext.c I simply change the order the files are included,
> would that solve the problem? Or the fix is going to be more complex?
Both in dgettext.c and dngettext.c at a minimum as far as I can see. Another
possible path is to bootstrap the compiler with Sun cc or with gcc -std=c89.
--
http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=23541
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` (6 preceding siblings ...)
2006-01-04 16:01 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
@ 2006-01-04 19:55 ` alex at milivojevic dot org
2006-01-09 8:57 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
` (14 subsequent siblings)
22 siblings, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread
From: alex at milivojevic dot org @ 2006-01-04 19:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: gcc-bugs
------- Comment #16 from alex at milivojevic dot org 2006-01-04 19:55 -------
(In reply to comment #15)
> Both in dgettext.c and dngettext.c at a minimum as far as I can see. Another
> possible path is to bootstrap the compiler with Sun cc or with gcc -std=c89.
Bootstrapping with 'gcc -std=c89' hasn't worked.
First I got xgcc binary that was linked without -rpath or -R (so it was linked
against $prefix/lib/sparcv9/libintl.so.3 from GNU gettext, while dynamic linker
could find only libintl.so.1 in /usr/lib/sparcv9 which was part of Solaris
system). This is probably something that should be fixed in build process.
OK, there's --with-included-gettext option. Using that one, the xgcc crashed
the very first time it was invoked.
Currently recompiling without --with-included-gettext and with LD_LIBRARY_PATH
set.
If that one fails, I'll try switching the order of includes (probably should
have done that one first).
--
http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=23541
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` (7 preceding siblings ...)
2006-01-04 19:55 ` alex at milivojevic dot org
@ 2006-01-09 8:57 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
2006-03-08 18:10 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
` (13 subsequent siblings)
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From: ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org @ 2006-01-09 8:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: gcc-bugs
------- Comment #17 from ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org 2006-01-09 08:57 -------
> Bootstrapping with 'gcc -std=c89' hasn't worked.
Here are 3 workarounds:
- configure with --disable-nls,
- bootstrap with Sun cc,
- bootstrap with GCC 2.x or GCC 3.x.
--
http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=23541
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` (8 preceding siblings ...)
2006-01-09 8:57 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
@ 2006-03-08 18:10 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
2006-03-31 13:51 ` ghazi at gcc dot gnu dot org
` (12 subsequent siblings)
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From: ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org @ 2006-03-08 18:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: gcc-bugs
------- Comment #18 from ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org 2006-03-08 18:10 -------
Created an attachment (id=10993)
--> (http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=10993&action=view)
Naive fix.
It tweaks 4 (really 3) C source files and is sufficient to overcome the
problem.
But it's probably not the canonical fix as the GNU gettext package (from which
the toolchain edition of libintl is borrowed) is not affected; not sure why...
--
http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=23541
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` (9 preceding siblings ...)
2006-03-08 18:10 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
@ 2006-03-31 13:51 ` ghazi at gcc dot gnu dot org
2006-03-31 14:09 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
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From: ghazi at gcc dot gnu dot org @ 2006-03-31 13:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: gcc-bugs
------- Comment #19 from ghazi at gcc dot gnu dot org 2006-03-31 13:51 -------
Of the 3 workarounds in comment #17, bootstrap with Sun cc doesn't work because
of PR 18058 (although there is a patch posted for that PR). Also bootstrap
with GCC 2.x or 3.x isn't quite right since I tried 3.4.x and it still had the
problems.
Only by using --disable-nls was I able to get a successful bootstrap completed
on sparc64-sun-solaris2.10.
My hope is that this PR will get more attention. We can't IMHO release 4.2
with this problem still there, and it was filed in October.
--
http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=23541
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` (10 preceding siblings ...)
2006-03-31 13:51 ` ghazi at gcc dot gnu dot org
@ 2006-03-31 14:09 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
2006-03-31 14:29 ` ghazi at gcc dot gnu dot org
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From: ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org @ 2006-03-31 14:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: gcc-bugs
------- Comment #20 from ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org 2006-03-31 14:09 -------
> Of the 3 workarounds in comment #17, bootstrap with Sun cc doesn't work
> because of PR 18058 (although there is a patch posted for that PR). Also
> bootstrap with GCC 2.x or 3.x isn't quite right since I tried 3.4.x and
> still had the problems.
It's the wrong PR, this one is for pre-4.2, the 3 workarounds work.
> My hope is that this PR will get more attention. We can't IMHO release 4.2
> with this problem still there, and it was filed in October.
The problem is minor for pre-4.2. The blocker PR for 4.2 is PR other/26507.
--
http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=23541
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` (11 preceding siblings ...)
2006-03-31 14:09 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
@ 2006-03-31 14:29 ` ghazi at gcc dot gnu dot org
2006-03-31 14:36 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
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From: ghazi at gcc dot gnu dot org @ 2006-03-31 14:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: gcc-bugs
------- Comment #21 from ghazi at gcc dot gnu dot org 2006-03-31 14:29 -------
(In reply to comment #20)
> It's the wrong PR, this one is for pre-4.2, the 3 workarounds work.
> The problem is minor for pre-4.2. The blocker PR for 4.2 is PR other/26507.
Huh? The third comment in 26507 (by you I might add) agrees that PR 26507 and
this one are the same problem. We should close one as a dup of the other.
I also don't understand what you mean by pre-4.2. Is that a roundabout way of
saying 4.1? I don't have any problems in 4.1.
--
http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=23541
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` (12 preceding siblings ...)
2006-03-31 14:29 ` ghazi at gcc dot gnu dot org
@ 2006-03-31 14:36 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
2006-03-31 14:44 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
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From: ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org @ 2006-03-31 14:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: gcc-bugs
------- Comment #22 from ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org 2006-03-31 14:36 -------
> Huh? The third comment in 26507 (by you I might add) agrees that PR 26507 and
> this one are the same problem. We should close one as a dup of the other.
I precisely chose not to close either because of their different scope.
> I also don't understand what you mean by pre-4.2. Is that a roundabout way of
> saying 4.1?
Yes, it is. :-)
--
http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=23541
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` (13 preceding siblings ...)
2006-03-31 14:36 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
@ 2006-03-31 14:44 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
2006-06-04 17:53 ` mmitchel at gcc dot gnu dot org
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From: ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org @ 2006-03-31 14:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: gcc-bugs
------- Comment #23 from ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org 2006-03-31 14:44 -------
> My hope is that this PR will get more attention. We can't IMHO release 4.2
> with this problem still there, and it was filed in October.
Oh, and feel free to take a stab at it. :-) Part of the problem is that the
intl package in the src tree uses a stripped down build system that seems to
disable the counter-measures present in the package again this kind of
problems...
The naive fix I've attached might be the safest approach in the end.
--
http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=23541
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` (14 preceding siblings ...)
2006-03-31 14:44 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
@ 2006-06-04 17:53 ` mmitchel at gcc dot gnu dot org
2006-07-19 0:19 ` [Bug other/23541] All " lucier at math dot purdue dot edu
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From: mmitchel at gcc dot gnu dot org @ 2006-06-04 17:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: gcc-bugs
--
mmitchel at gcc dot gnu dot org changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Priority|P2 |P1
http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=23541
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2006-06-04 17:53 ` mmitchel at gcc dot gnu dot org
@ 2006-07-19 0:19 ` lucier at math dot purdue dot edu
2006-07-19 0:27 ` Andrew Pinski
2006-07-19 0:27 ` pinskia at physics dot uc dot edu
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From: lucier at math dot purdue dot edu @ 2006-07-19 0:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: gcc-bugs
------- Comment #24 from lucier at math dot purdue dot edu 2006-07-19 00:19 -------
Well, I just hit the same bug in 4.1.1, so it survived from 4.1.0.
I must be one hell of an atypical guy building 4.1.1, my bootstrap on x86-64
RHEL 4.0 didn't work (PR 28066), my 32-bit bootstrap on sparc-sun-solaris2.9
didn't work (PR27823), and now my 64-bit bootstrap fails here.
Any chance of this one getting fixed in time for 4.1.2?
--
lucier at math dot purdue dot edu changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CC| |lucier at math dot purdue
| |dot edu
http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=23541
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` (16 preceding siblings ...)
2006-07-19 0:19 ` [Bug other/23541] All " lucier at math dot purdue dot edu
@ 2006-07-19 0:27 ` pinskia at physics dot uc dot edu
2006-09-12 6:33 ` [Bug other/23541] [4.0/4.1/4.2 regression] " ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
` (4 subsequent siblings)
22 siblings, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread
From: pinskia at physics dot uc dot edu @ 2006-07-19 0:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: gcc-bugs
------- Comment #25 from pinskia at physics dot uc dot edu 2006-07-19 00:27 -------
Subject: Re: All error messages produce segfault
On Jul 19, 2006, at 9:19 AM, lucier at math dot purdue dot edu wrote:
> I must be one hell of an atypical guy building 4.1.1, my bootstrap
> on x86-64
> RHEL 4.0 didn't work (PR 28066),
Well PR 28066 is not a GCC bug but a bug in an older pre-release of
binutils.
-- Pinski
--
http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=23541
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` (17 preceding siblings ...)
2006-07-19 0:27 ` pinskia at physics dot uc dot edu
@ 2006-09-12 6:33 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
2006-09-13 21:24 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
` (3 subsequent siblings)
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From: ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org @ 2006-09-12 6:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: gcc-bugs
--
ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Severity|normal |major
Summary|All error messages produce |[4.0/4.1/4.2 regression] All
|segfault |error messages produce
| |segfault
Target Milestone|--- |4.0.4
http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=23541
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2006-09-12 6:33 ` [Bug other/23541] [4.0/4.1/4.2 regression] " ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
@ 2006-09-13 21:24 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
2006-09-13 21:24 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
` (2 subsequent siblings)
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From: ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org @ 2006-09-13 21:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: gcc-bugs
------- Comment #28 from ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org 2006-09-13 21:24 -------
Subject: Bug 23541
Author: ebotcazou
Date: Wed Sep 13 21:24:04 2006
New Revision: 116933
URL: http://gcc.gnu.org/viewcvs?root=gcc&view=rev&rev=116933
Log:
PR other/23541
PR other/26507
Backport from gettext repository:
2003-09-04 Bruno Haible <bruno@clisp.org>
* dgettext.c: Include <locale.h> after gettextP.h, not before. This
ensures that libintl_dcgettext is correctly declared on Solaris.
(Needed because Solaris <locale.h> includes libintl.h.)
* dngettext.c: Likewise, for the libintl_dcngettext declaration.
Modified:
branches/gcc-4_0-branch/intl/ChangeLog
branches/gcc-4_0-branch/intl/dgettext.c
branches/gcc-4_0-branch/intl/dngettext.c
--
http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=23541
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` (19 preceding siblings ...)
2006-09-13 21:24 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
@ 2006-09-13 21:24 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
2006-09-13 21:24 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
2006-09-13 21:26 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
22 siblings, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread
From: ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org @ 2006-09-13 21:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: gcc-bugs
------- Comment #26 from ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org 2006-09-13 21:23 -------
Subject: Bug 23541
Author: ebotcazou
Date: Wed Sep 13 21:23:28 2006
New Revision: 116931
URL: http://gcc.gnu.org/viewcvs?root=gcc&view=rev&rev=116931
Log:
PR other/23541
PR other/26507
Backport from gettext repository:
2003-09-04 Bruno Haible <bruno@clisp.org>
* dgettext.c: Include <locale.h> after gettextP.h, not before. This
ensures that libintl_dcgettext is correctly declared on Solaris.
(Needed because Solaris <locale.h> includes libintl.h.)
* dngettext.c: Likewise, for the libintl_dcngettext declaration.
Modified:
trunk/intl/ChangeLog
trunk/intl/dgettext.c
trunk/intl/dngettext.c
--
http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=23541
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread* [Bug other/23541] [4.0/4.1/4.2 regression] All error messages produce segfault
[not found] <bug-23541-6526@http.gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/>
` (20 preceding siblings ...)
2006-09-13 21:24 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
@ 2006-09-13 21:24 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
2006-09-13 21:26 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
22 siblings, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread
From: ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org @ 2006-09-13 21:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: gcc-bugs
------- Comment #27 from ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org 2006-09-13 21:24 -------
Subject: Bug 23541
Author: ebotcazou
Date: Wed Sep 13 21:23:44 2006
New Revision: 116932
URL: http://gcc.gnu.org/viewcvs?root=gcc&view=rev&rev=116932
Log:
PR other/23541
PR other/26507
Backport from gettext repository:
2003-09-04 Bruno Haible <bruno@clisp.org>
* dgettext.c: Include <locale.h> after gettextP.h, not before. This
ensures that libintl_dcgettext is correctly declared on Solaris.
(Needed because Solaris <locale.h> includes libintl.h.)
* dngettext.c: Likewise, for the libintl_dcngettext declaration.
Modified:
branches/gcc-4_1-branch/intl/ChangeLog
branches/gcc-4_1-branch/intl/dgettext.c
branches/gcc-4_1-branch/intl/dngettext.c
--
http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=23541
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread* [Bug other/23541] [4.0/4.1/4.2 regression] All error messages produce segfault
[not found] <bug-23541-6526@http.gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/>
` (21 preceding siblings ...)
2006-09-13 21:24 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
@ 2006-09-13 21:26 ` ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org
22 siblings, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread
From: ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org @ 2006-09-13 21:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: gcc-bugs
------- Comment #29 from ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org 2006-09-13 21:25 -------
At last.
--
ebotcazou at gcc dot gnu dot org changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
URL| |http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-
| |patches/2006-
| |09/msg00518.html
Status|ASSIGNED |RESOLVED
Resolution| |FIXED
http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=23541
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread