Re: I'm really confuesd and frustrated Please Help

Re: I'm really confuesd and frustrated Please Help

[JacobK622]

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Thank you for letting me know about the subject line issue, I will strive to write more descriptive subject lines in the future.
Thank you for letting me know about the "reply to list only" part of netiquette, I will reply to the mailing list from now on. My apologies.

Sorry for the long delay.  I had some stuff going on, got distracted, and accidentally invented dehydrated water (jk lol).

Anyway, I opened stdio.h in a text editor and it clearly stated that it was under the LGPL v2 or any later version.
sooo... what am I missing here?

What is the email for the glibc list and would it be bad netiquette to post this there?

"For questions about glibc's licence you should ask the glibc list or
consult a lawyer. The first paragraph of clause 5 of LGPL v2.1 seems
clear to me:

5. A program that contains no derivative of any portion of the
Library, but is designed to work with the Library by being compiled or
linked with it, is called a "work that uses the Library". Such a work,
in isolation, is not a derivative work of the Library, and therefore
falls outside the scope of this License."

The  sentence says "Such a work, in ISOLATION, is not a derivative work of the Library, and therefore falls outside the scope of this License.". If I wanted to distribute my code in source code form only then you would be right--the use of the libraries wouldn't affect the code, because they aren't combined.  However (and I admit i may not have made this clear) but, I do intend on distributing it in object code form. (which would require that my code and the library be combined))  The second sentence in the LGPLv2.1  section 5 says "However, linking a "work that uses the Library" with the Library creates an executable that is a derivative of the Library (because it contains portions of the Library), rather than a "work that uses the library". The executable is therefore covered by this License. Section 6 states terms for distribution of such executables."

Does anyone else have any suggestions?

My email is JacobK622@protonmail.com feel free to email me at any time,
although I may not respond immediately. (usually within 24hrs.)
From, Jacob K

Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

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Re: I'm really confuesd and frustrated Please Help

[Dan Kegel]

On Sat, Jun 27, 2020 at 8:51 AM JacobK622 via Gcc-help
<gcc-help@gcc.gnu.org> wrote:
> What is the email for the glibc list and would it be bad netiquette to post this there?

See https://sourceware.org/lists.html

It would only be bad netiquette if your question was already answered.

> "For questions about glibc's licence you should ask the glibc list or
> consult a lawyer. The first paragraph of clause 5 of LGPL v2.1 seems
> clear to me:
> ...
>  The second sentence in the LGPLv2.1  section 5 says "However, linking a "work that uses the Library" with the Library creates an executable that is a derivative of the Library (because it contains portions of the Library), rather than a "work that uses the library". The executable is therefore covered by this License. Section 6 states terms for distribution of such executables."

Keep reading!  Two lines down, it says

"If such an object file uses only numerical parameters, data structure
layouts and accessors, and small macros and small inline functions
(ten lines or less in length), then the use of the object file is
unrestricted, regardless of whether it is legally a derivative work. "

I'll bet you'll find that the public header files for glibc meet the
above description, i.e. nothing you use from them is a macro or inline
function longer than 10 lines.  That means you're safe to ship
commercial code that links to glibc in the normal way, and you won't
have to release your source code.

If you decide your app needs to be statically linked to a C standard
library, you may want to look at newlib instead.
But you almost certainly don't want to do that; linking to glibc in
the usual (dynamic) way is fine for 99.9% of applications.

- Dan

Re: I'm really confuesd and frustrated Please Help

[Paul Smith]

On Sat, 2020-06-27 at 15:50 +0000, JacobK622 via Gcc-help wrote:
> Anyway, I opened stdio.h in a text editor and it clearly stated that
> it was under the LGPL v2 or any later version.
> sooo... what am I missing here?

I don't understand the question.  You might find some answers and help
on the GNU license page, here: https://www.gnu.org/licenses/

> What is the email for the glibc list and would it be bad netiquette
> to post this there?

If you want to ask questions about glibc then you can certainly post on
the libc-help list.

As for where it is, Google of "glibc mailing list" returns as the very
first hit:

https://www.gnu.org/software/libc/involved.html

> "For questions about glibc's licence you should ask the glibc list or
> consult a lawyer. The first paragraph of clause 5 of LGPL v2.1 seems
> clear to me:

It may seem clear to you but legal-ese is not easy for a layperson to
read.

> 5. A program that contains no derivative of any portion of the
> Library, but is designed to work with the Library by being compiled
> or linked with it, is called a "work that uses the Library". Such a
> work, in isolation, is not a derivative work of the Library, and
> therefore falls outside the scope of this License."
> 
> The  sentence says "Such a work, in ISOLATION, is not a derivative
> work of the Library, and therefore falls outside the scope of this
> License.". If I wanted to distribute my code in source code form only
> then you would be right--the use of the libraries wouldn't affect the
> code, because they aren't combined.

I am not a lawyer so if you care to be more confident of this than
taking advice from someone on the internet, consult one.

Also I should make clear that if what you're hoping for by posting
these questions is some sort of legally binding disclaimer from the
official copyright holders, you aren't ever going to get that, either
here for the C++ library nor on the GNU libc list for that library. 
"Advice from someone on the internet" is the best you're going to do.

However, there has been 20+ years of history using the GPL and LGPL
libraries and so what's acceptable and not is well-defined (IMO).

What the LGPL means, basically, is that if you compile and link your
program against an LGPL library using its published headers then your
program is not a derivative work of that library (and hence there is no
copyright issue) AS LONG AS:

1) You link the LGPL library dynamically, not statically, OR you
provide some other means for someone to replace the LGPL library with
their own modified version (such as distributing object files that can
be relinked with a different library), AND

2) You either don't modify any of the LGPL code in order to use it, or
if you do you distribute such modifications under the LGPL as well.

There may be other requirements that may apply to LGPL libraries other
than GNU libc; see this FAQ answer for more information:
https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#LGPLStaticVsDynamic
(since libc is always provided with the user's computer).


For the case of GCC there actually are some bits of code that _must_ be
statically linked with your program during linking to make it work. 
However, those bits of code are under a special license exception which
can be located from here:
https://www.gnu.org/licenses/exceptions.html


HTH!

Re: I'm really confuesd and frustrated Please Help

[Jonathan Wakely]

On Sat, 27 Jun 2020, 16:52 JacobK622 via Gcc-help, <gcc-help@gcc.gnu.org> wrote:
>
> Thank you for letting me know about the subject line issue, I will strive to write more descriptive subject lines in the future.
> Thank you for letting me know about the "reply to list only" part of netiquette, I will reply to the mailing list from now on. My apologies.
>
> Sorry for the long delay.  I had some stuff going on, got distracted, and accidentally invented dehydrated water (jk lol).
>
> Anyway, I opened stdio.h in a text editor and it clearly stated that it was under the LGPL v2 or any later version.
> sooo... what am I missing here?


stdio.h is not part of GCC. Asking about the glibc licence on this
mailing list is off-topic.

I've already suggested you should talk to a lawyer if you don't
understand the license.



>
> What is the email for the glibc list and would it be bad netiquette to post this there?


See http://www.gnu.org/software/libc/libc.html


>
> "For questions about glibc's licence you should ask the glibc list or
> consult a lawyer. The first paragraph of clause 5 of LGPL v2.1 seems
> clear to me:
>
> 5. A program that contains no derivative of any portion of the
> Library, but is designed to work with the Library by being compiled or
> linked with it, is called a "work that uses the Library". Such a work,
> in isolation, is not a derivative work of the Library, and therefore
> falls outside the scope of this License."
>
> The  sentence says "Such a work, in ISOLATION, is not a derivative work of the Library, and therefore falls outside the scope of this License.". If I wanted to distribute my code in source code form only then you would be right--the use of the libraries wouldn't affect the code, because they aren't combined.  However (and I admit i may not have made this clear) but, I do intend on distributing it in object code form. (which would require that my code and the library be combined))  The second sentence in the LGPLv2.1  section 5 says "However, linking a "work that uses the Library" with the Library creates an executable that is a derivative of the Library (because it contains portions of the Library), rather than a "work that uses the library". The executable is therefore covered by this License. Section 6 states terms for distribution of such executables."
>
> Does anyone else have any suggestions?


Talk to a lawyer.

Re: I'm really confuesd and frustrated Please Help

[JacobK622]

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As far as what Jonathan Wakely said: "If you still don't believe it, talk to a lawyer. Your continued "concerns" are starting to look like trolling or just a deliberate attempt to waste people's time." I sincerely apologize. I never intended to waste anyone's time, and I'm not purposely trolling either. I truly am sorry for being a pest--I just really worry about legal troubles down the road and want to make sure that I'm going about this the right way.

As far as what Ian Lance Taylor said: 
"Please give us an example of an answer that would satisfy you and remove your concerns.  Thanks." 
At this point I don't think anything aside from the word of a lawyer would completely quell my concerns and since that's not what this list is for
I'm going to just suck it up & deal with my anxiety regarding this issue and go forward with my app development (and contact a lawyer if i feel I need to).

I'm starting to believe that my anxiety is leading me to be more nit-picky than necessary.

Also, is it safe to assume this all applies to mingw as well?
My email is JacobK622@protonmail.com feel free to email me at any time,
although I may not respond immediately. (usually within 24hrs.)
From, Jacob K

Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email

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Re: I'm really confuesd and frustrated Please Help

[Dan Kegel]

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 8:21 PM JacobK622 via Gcc-help <gcc-help@gcc.gnu.org>
wrote:

> I'm starting to believe that my anxiety is leading me to be more nit-picky
> than necessary.
>

This is probably true.
- Dan

Re: I'm really confuesd and frustrated Please Help

[JacobK622]

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to: gcc help mailing-list

I'm still a bit concerned about this.

What are my obligations under the licenses? (or should I post that as a new question?)

Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?

My email is JacobK622@protonmail.com feel free to email me at any time,although I may not respond immediately. (usually within 24hrs.)

From, Jacob K

Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

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Re: I'm really confuesd and frustrated Please Help

[Dan Kegel]

If you're using gcc and glibc in any halfway normal manner,
and you want to distribute your binaries to customers, but not release your
source code,
that's ok.

If you're doing anything strange, you might need to double-check.
But in general, glibc is designed to avoid any worries about open source
forcing you to release your source code in the great majority of cases.
- Dan


On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 6:46 PM JacobK622 via Gcc-help <gcc-help@gcc.gnu.org>
wrote:

> to: gcc help mailing-list
>
> I'm still a bit concerned about this.
>
> What are my obligations under the licenses? (or should I post that as a
> new question?)
>
> Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?
>
> My email is JacobK622@protonmail.com feel free to email me at any
> time,although I may not respond immediately. (usually within 24hrs.)
>
> From, Jacob K
>
> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

Re: I'm really confuesd and frustrated Please Help

[Jonathan Wakely]

On Wed, 8 Jul 2020 at 02:48, JacobK622 via Gcc-help
<gcc-help@gcc.gnu.org> wrote:
>
> to: gcc help mailing-list
>
> I'm still a bit concerned about this.
>
> What are my obligations under the licenses? (or should I post that as a new question?)
>
> Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?

You've been told the same thing several times now. If you compile and
link your code as normal, and don't modify GCC or Glibc, their
licenses do not require you to use any particular license for your own
code.

If you still don't believe it, talk to a lawyer Your continued
"concerns" are starting to look like trolling or just a deliberate
attempt to waste people's time.

Re: I'm really confuesd and frustrated Please Help

[Thomas Dineen]

Gentle People:

     Actually this is beginning to sound like a request for legal 
consultancy!

I strongly suggest that you contact a lawyer for  final resolution.

Thomas Dineen


On 7/8/2020 12:12 AM, Jonathan Wakely via Gcc-help wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Jul 2020 at 02:48, JacobK622 via Gcc-help
> <gcc-help@gcc.gnu.org> wrote:
>> to: gcc help mailing-list
>>
>> I'm still a bit concerned about this.
>>
>> What are my obligations under the licenses? (or should I post that as a new question?)
>>
>> Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?
> You've been told the same thing several times now. If you compile and
> link your code as normal, and don't modify GCC or Glibc, their
> licenses do not require you to use any particular license for your own
> code.
>
> If you still don't believe it, talk to a lawyer Your continued
> "concerns" are starting to look like trolling or just a deliberate
> attempt to waste people's time.

Re: I'm really confuesd and frustrated Please Help

[Ian Lance Taylor]

Please give us an example of an answer that would satisfy you and remove
your concerns.  Thanks.

Ian




On Tue, Jul 7, 2020, 6:46 PM JacobK622 via Gcc-help <gcc-help@gcc.gnu.org>
wrote:

> to: gcc help mailing-list
>
> I'm still a bit concerned about this.
>
> What are my obligations under the licenses? (or should I post that as a
> new question?)
>
> Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?
>
> My email is JacobK622@protonmail.com feel free to email me at any
> time,although I may not respond immediately. (usually within 24hrs.)
>
> From, Jacob K
>
> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

Re: I'm really confuesd and frustrated Please Help

[JacobK622]

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I realize that I did not give much context as to what the original question was so i've included a copy of it at the bottom of this Email. (please read it before continuing)

As far as what ___________________________ said:

"
"If such an object file uses only numerical parameters, data structure layouts and accessors, and small macros and small inline functions (ten lines or less in length), then the use of the object file is unrestricted, regardless of whether it is legally a derivative work. " I'll bet you'll find that the public header files for glibc meet the above description, i.e. nothing you use from them is a macro or inline function longer than 10 lines. That means you're safe to ship commercial code that links to glibc in the normal way, and you won't have to release your source code.
"

What I hoped to accomplish with my first email was to avoid having to go through each file in the standard c library and standard c++ library and determine what license each was under.  If I'm reading __________________'s suggestion correctly, I would actually end up doing more work rather than less, because I'd have to count lines of code of each function/method in each file.

As suggested by several people who responded to my email, I'll post this question at libc-help@sourceware.org (which is my understanding of what the correct libc help email is), since it seems like a better place to have this conversation. 

My email is JacobK622@protonmail.com feel free to email me at any time,
although I may not respond immediately. (usually within 24hrs.)
From, Jacob K

Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

------Original Email Begin------
To gcc-help@gcc.gnu.org

     Firstly I'd like to preface this by saying a few things:

    1. I don't always know what is or isn't socially appropriate to say/ask/do, so please don't get mad at me if I say/ask/do something inappropriate just let me know and I'll try to do better

    2. Sometimes I word things oddly so if a phrase sounds weird or doesn't make sense please let me know and I'll try to explain

    3. I want to make it VERY clear that the above statement should in no way be misinterpreted to say that 'I think you're dumb' because I don't.)
   
    4. I'm not sure this is the correct email to send this to if it isn't:
        a. I'm sorry
        b. Would you please give me the correct email address? Thanks
   
    5. I've been trying to find a solution to this for well over a month now and I'm getting a bit frustrated.
Anyway...

Right now, I have the standard C library and the standard C++ library as installed by gcc and g++, but it appears that I have multiple copies right now on my computer. ( I'm not sure if I have multiple copies, or if just looks that way because it's spread across the computer, or if it's something different.) (I think gcc did this automatically or it could be relatitd to the fact i have both gcc, g++, and mingw installed) This makes it very difficult to know what files are under what licenses, and what files are being included, because I have multiple copies of the same file under different directories. For instance, stdio.h. How do I download the standard C library and the standard C++ library as a separate download so I can put it in a single folder so that it's in one place? I need to keep track of what files I have under what license, and I can be sure that the license is compatible with the license I'd like to distribute my code under.

     I know how to make it ignore the standard search paths and redirect it to a new or add a new search path, I just need to know where I can get a copy of the standard C library and the standard C++ library (gnu gpl with runtime exception or a different non-copyleft license (MIT, BSD(0, 2, or 3 clause), etc)) so i can put them in a single folder.

I have the same questions as applicable to Mingw.

My email is JacobK622@protonmail.com feel free to email me at any time,
although I may not respond immediately. (usually within 24hrs.)
From, Jacob K

Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
------Original Email End------

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Re: I'm really confuesd and frustrated Please Help

[JacobK622]

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Somehow I managed to send a draft instead of the completed email. the completed email is below.

I realize that I did not give much context as to what the original question was so I've included a copy of it at the bottom of this Email. (please read it before continuing)

As far as what Dan Kegel said:
"
"If such an object file uses only numerical parameters, data structure layouts and accessors, and small macros and small inline functions (ten lines or less in length), then the use of the object file is unrestricted, regardless of whether it is legally a derivative work. " I'll bet you'll find that the public header files for glibc meet the above description, i.e. nothing you use from them is a macro or inline function longer than 10 lines. That means you're safe to ship commercial code that links to glibc in the normal way, and you won't have to release your source code.
"

What I hoped to accomplish with my first email was to avoid having to go through each file in the standard c library and standard c++ library and determine what license each was under.  If I'm reading Dan Kegel's suggestion correctly, I would actually end up doing more work rather than less, because I'd have to count lines of code of each function/method in each file.

Paul Smith pointed out that nothing said here is legally binding nor "legal advice" and is nothing more than as he put it, "Advice from someone on the internet". I am fully aware of this fact. I'm not looking for a lawyer just some help solving my problem.

As suggested by several people who responded to my email, I'll post this question at libc-help@sourceware.org (which is my understanding of what the correct libc help email is), since it seems like a better place to have this conversation. 

My email is JacobK622@protonmail.com feel free to email me at any time,
although I may not respond immediately. (usually within 24hrs.)
From, Jacob K

Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

------Original Email Begin------
To gcc-help@gcc.gnu.org

     Firstly I'd like to preface this by saying a few things:

    1. I don't always know what is or isn't socially appropriate to say/ask/do, so please don't get mad at me if I say/ask/do something inappropriate just let me know and I'll try to do better

    2. Sometimes I word things oddly so if a phrase sounds weird or doesn't make sense please let me know and I'll try to explain

    3. I want to make it VERY clear that the above statement should in no way be misinterpreted to say that 'I think you're dumb' because I don't.)
   
    4. I'm not sure this is the correct email to send this to if it isn't:
        a. I'm sorry
        b. Would you please give me the correct email address? Thanks
   
    5. I've been trying to find a solution to this for well over a month now and I'm getting a bit frustrated.
Anyway...

Right now, I have the standard C library and the standard C++ library as installed by gcc and g++, but it appears that I have multiple copies right now on my computer. ( I'm not sure if I have multiple copies, or if just looks that way because it's spread across the computer, or if it's something different.) (I think gcc did this automatically or it could be relatitd to the fact i have both gcc, g++, and mingw installed) This makes it very difficult to know what files are under what licenses, and what files are being included, because I have multiple copies of the same file under different directories. For instance, stdio.h. How do I download the standard C library and the standard C++ library as a separate download so I can put it in a single folder so that it's in one place? I need to keep track of what files I have under what license, and I can be sure that the license is compatible with the license I'd like to distribute my code under.

     I know how to make it ignore the standard search paths and redirect it to a new or add a new search path, I just need to know where I can get a copy of the standard C library and the standard C++ library (gnu gpl with runtime exception or a different non-copyleft license (MIT, BSD(0, 2, or 3 clause), etc)) so i can put them in a single folder.

I have the same questions as applicable to Mingw.

My email is JacobK622@protonmail.com feel free to email me at any time,
although I may not respond immediately. (usually within 24hrs.)
From, Jacob K

Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
------Original Email End------

[-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 477 bytes --]

Re: I'm really confuesd and frustrated Please Help

[Paul Smith]

On Sun, 2020-06-28 at 19:53 +0000, JacobK622 via Gcc-help wrote:
> What I hoped to accomplish with my first email was to avoid having to
> go through each file in the standard c library and standard c++
> library and determine what license each was under.  If I'm reading
> Dan Kegel's suggestion correctly, I would actually end up doing more
> work rather than less, because I'd have to count lines of code of
> each function/method in each file.

You only have to do that work if you aren't ready to believe our
assertions that it's not needed, and the intentions of the authors of
the GNU libc library to ensure that it's not needed, but instead need
to prove this to yourself empirically.

> Paul Smith pointed out that nothing said here is legally binding nor
> "legal advice" and is nothing more than as he put it, "Advice from
> someone on the internet". I am fully aware of this fact. I'm not
> looking for a lawyer just some help solving my problem.

As mentioned above, we've provided our opinions, which is all we can do
and what you have asked for.

If that's good enough then you're all set and no more work needs to be
done.  Remember, there are already _thousands_ of proprietary C and C++
programs running on GNU/Linux platforms, all of which were compiled
with GCC and linked against GNU libc, and they are not having any legal
troubles related to this.

If you need more than that, then yes, you'll have to do more work to
achieve whatever level of satisfaction you require.  How much work that
is, is up to you and we can't help with that.

Cheers!

Re: I'm really confuesd and frustrated Please Help

[Dan Kegel]

No, I'm telling you that you are fine, you don't need to go looking.
glibc is safe for commercial use as long as you don't do anything
really unusual.
- Dan

On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 1:09 PM Paul Smith <paul@mad-scientist.net> wrote:
>
> On Sun, 2020-06-28 at 19:53 +0000, JacobK622 via Gcc-help wrote:
> > What I hoped to accomplish with my first email was to avoid having to
> > go through each file in the standard c library and standard c++
> > library and determine what license each was under.  If I'm reading
> > Dan Kegel's suggestion correctly, I would actually end up doing more
> > work rather than less, because I'd have to count lines of code of
> > each function/method in each file.
>
> You only have to do that work if you aren't ready to believe our
> assertions that it's not needed, and the intentions of the authors of
> the GNU libc library to ensure that it's not needed, but instead need
> to prove this to yourself empirically.
>
> > Paul Smith pointed out that nothing said here is legally binding nor
> > "legal advice" and is nothing more than as he put it, "Advice from
> > someone on the internet". I am fully aware of this fact. I'm not
> > looking for a lawyer just some help solving my problem.
>
> As mentioned above, we've provided our opinions, which is all we can do
> and what you have asked for.
>
> If that's good enough then you're all set and no more work needs to be
> done.  Remember, there are already _thousands_ of proprietary C and C++
> programs running on GNU/Linux platforms, all of which were compiled
> with GCC and linked against GNU libc, and they are not having any legal
> troubles related to this.
>
> If you need more than that, then yes, you'll have to do more work to
> achieve whatever level of satisfaction you require.  How much work that
> is, is up to you and we can't help with that.
>
> Cheers!
>
>

I'm really confuesd and frustrated Please Help

[JacobK622]

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To gcc-help@gcc.gnu.org

     Firstly I'd like to preface this by saying a few things:

    1. I don't always know what is or isn't socially appropriate to say/ask/do, so please don't get mad at me if I say/ask/do something inappropriate just let me know and I'll try to do better

    2. Sometimes I word things oddly so if a phrase sounds weird or doesn't make sense please let me know and I'll try to explain

    3. I want to make it VERY clear that the above statement should in no way be misinterpreted to say that 'I think you're dumb' because I don't.)
   
    4. I'm not sure this is the correct email to send this to if it isn't:
        a. I'm sorry
        b. Would you please give me the correct email address? Thanks
   
    5. I've been trying to find a solution to this for well over a month now and I'm getting a bit frustrated.
Anyway...

Right now, I have the standard C library and the standard C++ library as installed by gcc and g++, but it appears that I have multiple copies right now on my computer. ( I'm not sure if I have multiple copies, or if just looks that way because it's spread across the computer, or if it's something different.) (I think gcc did this automatically or it could be relatitd to the fact i have both gcc, g++, and mingw installed) This makes it very difficult to know what files are under what licenses, and what files are being included, because I have multiple copies of the same file under different directories. For instance, stdio.h. How do I download the standard C library and the standard C++ library as a separate download so I can put it in a single folder so that it's in one place? I need to keep track of what files I have under what license, and I can be sure that the license is compatible with the license I'd like to distribute my code under.

     I know how to make it ignore the standard search paths and redirect it to a new or add a new search path, I just need to know where I can get a copy of the standard C library and the standard C++ library (gnu gpl with runtime exception or a different non-copyleft license (MIT, BSD(0, 2, or 3 clause), etc)) so i can put them in a single folder.

I have the same questions as applicable to Mingw.

My email is JacobK622@protonmail.com feel free to email me at any time,
although I may not respond immediately. (usually within 24hrs.)
From, Jacob K

Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

[-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --]
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Re: I'm really confuesd and frustrated Please Help

[Dan Kegel]

If you're trying to do license tracking, well, it's understandable that
you're confused and upset.
In my experience, it's hard to do, and it's messy.
it's also off-topic for gcc-help, I'm afraid.
But as long as I'm replying:

Rather than trying to put glibc and libstdc++ into a folder, you probably
want to
just accept them as they are, and special case them in your license
tracking scheme.

You might find https://github.com/Oblong/obs/tree/master/licensing useful,
it has some documentation and tools I used once to track licenses.
(Its doc mentions https://github.com/nexB/scancode-toolkit since the
licensing scripts I wrote use scancode in several ways.)

Good luck!
- Dan

On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 6:26 PM JacobK622 via Gcc-help <gcc-help@gcc.gnu.org>
wrote:

> To gcc-help@gcc.gnu.org
>
>      Firstly I'd like to preface this by saying a few things:
>
>     1. I don't always know what is or isn't socially appropriate to
> say/ask/do, so please don't get mad at me if I say/ask/do something
> inappropriate just let me know and I'll try to do better
>
>     2. Sometimes I word things oddly so if a phrase sounds weird or
> doesn't make sense please let me know and I'll try to explain
>
>     3. I want to make it VERY clear that the above statement should in no
> way be misinterpreted to say that 'I think you're dumb' because I don't.)
>
>     4. I'm not sure this is the correct email to send this to if it isn't:
>         a. I'm sorry
>         b. Would you please give me the correct email address? Thanks
>
>     5. I've been trying to find a solution to this for well over a month
> now and I'm getting a bit frustrated.
> Anyway...
>
> Right now, I have the standard C library and the standard C++ library as
> installed by gcc and g++, but it appears that I have multiple copies right
> now on my computer. ( I'm not sure if I have multiple copies, or if just
> looks that way because it's spread across the computer, or if it's
> something different.) (I think gcc did this automatically or it could be
> relatitd to the fact i have both gcc, g++, and mingw installed) This makes
> it very difficult to know what files are under what licenses, and what
> files are being included, because I have multiple copies of the same file
> under different directories. For instance, stdio.h. How do I download
> the standard C library and the standard C++ library as a separate download
> so I can put it in a single folder so that it's in one place? I need to
> keep track of what files I have under what license, and I can be sure that
> the license is compatible with the license I'd like to distribute my code
> under.
>
>      I know how to make it ignore the standard search paths and redirect
> it to a new or add a new search path, I just need to know where I can get a
> copy of the standard C library and the standard C++ library (gnu gpl with
> runtime exception or a different non-copyleft license (MIT, BSD(0, 2, or 3
> clause), etc)) so i can put them in a single folder.
>
> I have the same questions as applicable to Mingw.
>
> My email is JacobK622@protonmail.com feel free to email me at any time,
> although I may not respond immediately. (usually within 24hrs.)
> From, Jacob K
>
> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

Re: I'm really confuesd and frustrated Please Help

[Jonathan Wakely]

On Thu, 11 Jun 2020 at 02:28, JacobK622 via Gcc-help
<gcc-help@gcc.gnu.org> wrote:
>
> To gcc-help@gcc.gnu.org
>
>      Firstly I'd like to preface this by saying a few things:
>
>     1. I don't always know what is or isn't socially appropriate to say/ask/do, so please don't get mad at me if I say/ask/do something inappropriate just let me know and I'll try to do better
>
>     2. Sometimes I word things oddly so if a phrase sounds weird or doesn't make sense please let me know and I'll try to explain
>
>     3. I want to make it VERY clear that the above statement should in no way be misinterpreted to say that 'I think you're dumb' because I don't.)
>
>     4. I'm not sure this is the correct email to send this to if it isn't:
>         a. I'm sorry
>         b. Would you please give me the correct email address? Thanks
>
>     5. I've been trying to find a solution to this for well over a month now and I'm getting a bit frustrated.
> Anyway...
>
> Right now, I have the standard C library and the standard C++ library as installed by gcc and g++,

No you don't. The  C standard library (libc) is a separate project
from gcc, and is not "installed by gcc".

(On the other hand, the C++ standard library *is* provided as part of
GCC, so libstdc++ is typically installed as part of installing g++.)

> but it appears that I have multiple copies right now on my computer. ( I'm not sure if I have multiple copies, or if just looks that way because it's spread across the computer, or if it's something different.) (I think gcc did this automatically or it could be relatitd to the fact i have both gcc, g++, and mingw installed) This makes it very difficult to know what files are under what licenses, and what files are being included, because I have multiple copies of the same file under different directories. For instance, stdio.h. How do I download the standard C library and the standard C++ library as a separate download so I can put it in a single folder so that it's in one place?

You don't. It wouldn't work anyway.

> I need to keep track of what files I have under what license, and I can be sure that the license is compatible with the license I'd like to distribute my code under.

Why do you think the license of the C or C++ library affects the
license of your code? Using the standard libraries on GNU/Linux or
MinGW, it doesn't affect it.

>      I know how to make it ignore the standard search paths and redirect it to a new or add a new search path, I just need to know where I can get a copy of the standard C library and the standard C++ library (gnu gpl with runtime exception or a different non-copyleft license (MIT, BSD(0, 2, or 3 clause), etc)) so i can put them in a single folder.
>
> I have the same questions as applicable to Mingw.

You're wasting your time. Don't bother.