From: Paul Koning <pkoning@equallogic.com>
To: geoffk@geoffk.org
Cc: gcc@gcc.gnu.org
Subject: Re: gcc 3.5 integration branch proposal
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 14:58:00 -0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <16389.22796.844144.901978@gargle.gargle.HOWL> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <jmvfnfs8ji.fsf@desire.geoffk.org>
>>>>> "Geoff" == Geoff Keating <geoffk@geoffk.org> writes:
Geoff> Paul Koning <pkoning@equallogic.com> writes:
>> >> * Correct code generation * Fewer ICEs * Standards conformance
>> * >> Compilation speed * Performance * Features * Release
>> frequency * >> Release timeliness
>> >>
>> >> We need to figure out how to balance those goals better without
>> >> losing ground in areas where we recently have been improving.
>>
>> I can see why some of this ordering would be subject to
>> disagreement, but I would hope that there also are partial
>> orderings that are NOT debatable.
>>
>> The general rule of software engineering is that correctness comes
>> first, performance and schedule after that.
Geoff> I don't believe that statement is correct as an absolute.
Geoff> For instance, a product that never ships is *not* better than
Geoff> a product that ships with bugs. It is significantly worse.
Geoff> Likewise, a product that is guaranteed to produce the correct
Geoff> answer, but will take 400 years, is much worse than a product
Geoff> that has a 99% chance of producing the correct answer in 10
Geoff> minutes.
Depending on the mission, both of those statements are sometimes true
and sometimes completely false. Consider safety-critical applications
-- flight control, pacemaker firmware, things like that...
Other applications aren't quite as stringent, but still, a lot have
quality requirements well above those of typical PC applications.
Consider a storage server device -- if you're storing data for
thousands of users, you have to take correctness VERY seriously if you
want to stay in business. Shipping on schedule and then losing
customer data will not win you any friends at all.
paul
Geoff> -- - Geoffrey Keating <geoffk@geoffk.org>
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2004-01-14 14:58 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 185+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2004-01-10 0:11 Geoffrey Keating
2004-01-10 0:25 ` Phil Edwards
2004-01-10 0:47 ` Geoffrey Keating
2004-01-10 15:41 ` Phil Edwards
2004-01-12 18:47 ` Geoffrey Keating
2004-01-12 19:22 ` Mark Mitchell
2004-01-12 23:42 ` Geoff Keating
2004-01-12 23:48 ` Zack Weinberg
2004-01-12 23:49 ` Mark Mitchell
2004-01-13 0:06 ` Daniel Jacobowitz
2004-01-13 0:16 ` Daniel Jacobowitz
2004-01-13 0:22 ` Steven Bosscher
2004-01-13 19:48 ` Gerald Pfeifer
2004-01-13 0:28 ` Joe Buck
2004-01-13 0:46 ` Daniel Jacobowitz
2004-01-13 1:13 ` Jan Hubicka
2004-01-13 0:11 ` Ziemowit Laski
2004-01-13 0:15 ` Steven Bosscher
2004-01-13 0:23 ` Ziemowit Laski
2004-01-13 0:37 ` Steven Bosscher
2004-01-13 0:45 ` Jan Hubicka
2004-01-13 0:55 ` Ziemowit Laski
2004-01-13 0:54 ` Ziemowit Laski
2004-01-13 1:01 ` Mark Mitchell
2004-01-13 1:16 ` Ziemowit Laski
2004-01-13 1:26 ` Mark Mitchell
2004-01-13 1:33 ` Gabriel Dos Reis
2004-01-13 1:19 ` Gabriel Dos Reis
2004-01-13 0:47 ` Daniel Jacobowitz
2004-01-13 0:59 ` Altivec (Re: gcc 3.5 integration branch proposal) Matt Austern
2004-01-13 0:16 ` gcc 3.5 integration branch proposal Mark Mitchell
2004-01-13 0:54 ` Gabriel Dos Reis
2004-01-13 21:31 ` Geoff Keating
2004-01-13 22:41 ` David Edelsohn
2004-01-13 23:13 ` Daniel Berlin
2004-01-13 23:24 ` Paul Koning
2004-01-14 0:01 ` Geoff Keating
2004-01-14 0:26 ` Gabriel Dos Reis
2004-01-14 8:35 ` Laurent GUERBY
2004-01-14 14:58 ` Paul Koning [this message]
2004-01-13 23:29 ` Mike Stump
2004-01-14 0:47 ` Andrew Pinski
2004-01-14 1:05 ` Andrew Pinski
2004-01-14 1:36 ` Joe Buck
2004-01-14 19:47 ` Mike Stump
2004-01-13 23:51 ` Eric Christopher
2004-01-13 23:53 ` Daniel Berlin
2004-01-14 6:13 ` Mark Mitchell
2004-01-14 8:39 ` Laurent GUERBY
2004-01-14 8:48 ` Steven Bosscher
2004-01-14 20:59 ` Laurent GUERBY
2004-01-14 21:02 ` Andrew Haley
2004-01-19 1:31 ` Marc Espie
2004-01-19 1:51 ` Gabriel Dos Reis
2004-01-19 10:40 ` Nick Burrett
2004-01-19 13:55 ` Robert Dewar
2004-01-19 15:49 ` Gabriel Dos Reis
2004-01-19 16:09 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2004-01-19 16:24 ` Marc Espie
2004-01-19 17:07 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2004-01-19 17:54 ` Robert Dewar
2004-01-19 18:03 ` Gabriel Dos Reis
2004-01-19 17:41 ` Robert Dewar
2004-01-19 18:08 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2004-01-19 18:09 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2004-01-19 18:34 ` Marc Espie
2004-01-19 19:06 ` Robert Dewar
2004-01-19 20:22 ` Eric Botcazou
2004-01-19 20:38 ` Robert Dewar
2004-01-19 21:09 ` Eric Botcazou
2004-01-19 21:18 ` Eric Christopher
2004-01-19 21:46 ` Eric Botcazou
2004-01-19 22:09 ` Laurent GUERBY
2004-01-19 22:29 ` Marc Espie
2004-01-19 23:04 ` Laurent GUERBY
2004-01-20 3:45 ` Robert Dewar
2004-01-20 7:46 ` Marc Espie
2004-01-20 23:22 ` Gerald Pfeifer
2004-01-20 23:28 ` Zack Winkles
2004-01-19 23:53 ` Mark Hahn
2004-01-20 0:17 ` Gabriel Dos Reis
2004-01-20 14:27 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2004-01-22 14:50 ` Geoffrey Furnish
2004-01-20 6:27 ` gcc compilation speed Matt Austern
2004-01-20 7:23 ` Steven Bosscher
2004-01-20 7:40 ` Karel Gardas
2004-01-20 8:25 ` gcc 3.5 integration branch proposal Karel Gardas
2004-01-20 12:07 ` Laurent GUERBY
2004-01-20 14:41 ` Karel Gardas
2004-01-20 14:52 ` Daniel Berlin
2004-01-20 14:55 ` Karel Gardas
2004-01-20 15:16 ` Daniel Jacobowitz
2004-01-20 15:21 ` Karel Gardas
2004-01-20 16:16 ` Comparison of compilation speed of GCC 3.4.0 040114, ICC 8.0 and COMO 4.3.3 on MICO ORB core sources (C++) Karel Gardas
2004-01-20 15:08 ` gcc 3.5 integration branch proposal Paul Koning
2004-01-19 21:20 ` Robert Dewar
2004-01-20 2:05 ` Mike Stump
2004-01-20 14:25 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2004-01-19 21:34 ` Geoff Keating
2004-01-19 22:03 ` Eric Botcazou
2004-01-19 22:22 ` Geoff Keating
2004-01-19 22:38 ` Eric Botcazou
2004-01-20 3:53 ` Robert Dewar
2004-01-20 4:52 ` Eric Botcazou
2004-01-20 2:44 ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-01-20 3:04 ` Mike Stump
2004-01-20 19:03 ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-01-20 20:41 ` Mike Stump
2004-01-20 22:06 ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-01-20 22:59 ` Mike Stump
2004-01-20 18:52 ` Geoffrey Keating
2004-01-20 22:12 ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-01-20 22:30 ` Geoffrey Keating
2004-01-21 0:02 ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-01-21 12:12 ` Richard Earnshaw
2004-01-22 6:37 ` Segher Boessenkool
2004-01-22 10:38 ` Richard Earnshaw
2004-01-22 6:27 ` Segher Boessenkool
2004-01-26 18:55 ` compile speed [was: gcc 3.5 integration branch proposal] Per Bothner
2004-01-26 19:34 ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-01-20 0:01 ` GCC's hardware requirements - Where is the freedom? [was: " Matthias Benkmann
2004-01-20 3:13 ` Andrew Pinski
2004-01-20 3:17 ` Andrew Pinski
2004-01-20 9:23 ` Bernd Jendrissek
2004-01-20 21:38 ` Mike Stump
2004-01-20 22:50 ` Toon Moene
2004-01-20 8:12 ` Laurent GUERBY
2004-01-20 9:09 ` Eric Botcazou
2004-01-19 17:27 ` gcc 3.5 integration branch proposal Robert Dewar
2004-01-19 16:26 ` Per Bothner
2004-01-20 2:14 ` Mike Stump
2004-01-20 3:49 ` Zack Weinberg
2004-01-20 10:08 ` Jan Hubicka
2004-01-20 15:13 ` Daniel Jacobowitz
2004-01-20 18:04 ` Zack Weinberg
2004-01-20 18:48 ` Geoffrey Keating
2004-01-20 19:01 ` Zack Weinberg
2004-01-20 22:04 ` Geoff Keating
2004-01-21 2:23 ` Zack Weinberg
2004-01-22 6:27 ` Segher Boessenkool
2004-01-19 20:51 ` Dale Johannesen
2004-01-19 23:01 ` Gabriel Dos Reis
2004-01-19 3:42 ` Marc Espie
2004-01-19 3:47 ` Robert McNulty Junior
2004-01-19 3:49 ` David Edelsohn
2004-01-19 13:28 ` Marc Espie
2004-01-19 13:35 ` Jan Hubicka
2004-01-19 19:10 ` Marc Espie
2004-01-19 19:15 ` Marc Espie
2004-01-19 20:49 ` Diego Novillo
2004-01-19 19:39 ` Jan Hubicka
2004-01-19 13:35 ` Diego Novillo
2004-01-19 13:39 ` Jan Hubicka
2004-01-19 17:58 ` Jan Hubicka
2004-01-19 3:59 ` Zack Weinberg
2004-01-19 8:19 ` Steven Bosscher
2004-01-19 11:29 ` Jan Hubicka
2004-01-19 13:18 ` Jan Hubicka
2004-01-19 14:13 ` Robert Dewar
2004-01-19 14:18 ` Jan Hubicka
2004-01-19 14:48 ` Vladimir Makarov
2004-01-19 17:04 ` Jan Hubicka
2004-01-20 2:46 ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-01-19 4:37 ` Giovanni Bajo
2004-01-19 4:46 ` Gabriel Dos Reis
2004-01-19 7:04 ` Eric Botcazou
2004-01-19 7:10 ` Andreas Jaeger
2004-01-19 8:12 ` Steven Bosscher
2004-01-19 8:38 ` Gabriel Dos Reis
2004-01-19 8:45 ` Steven Bosscher
2004-01-19 9:35 ` Gabriel Dos Reis
2004-01-12 22:40 ` Mike Stump
2004-01-13 23:31 Michael Elizabeth Chastain
2004-01-19 16:24 Paul Koning
2004-01-19 17:46 ` Robert Dewar
2004-01-19 17:51 ` Gabriel Dos Reis
2004-01-19 18:12 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2004-01-19 18:20 ` Gabriel Dos Reis
2004-01-19 18:29 ` Giovanni Bajo
2004-01-19 18:22 ` Robert Dewar
2004-01-19 18:30 ` Paul Koning
2004-01-20 10:46 ` Russ Allbery
2004-01-20 3:00 D. Starner
2004-01-20 3:14 ` Andrew Pinski
2004-01-20 5:19 D. Starner
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