From: Nick Ing-Simmons <nik@tiuk.ti.com>
To: law@cygnus.com
Cc: rms@gnu.org, gcc@gcc.gnu.org
Subject: Re: type based aliasing again
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:02:00 -0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <199909151655.RAA05716@tiuk.ti.com> (raw)
Message-ID: <19990930180200.JpRbmzn7Sqo9B3HAu-IHECQCHzCVg0GCi6B6LsdXZKA@z> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <13132.937411270@upchuck.cygnus.com>
What you repeatedly miss is that there are many many more
people that use gcc as the "free software install tool" than there are
who actually write programs.
Having the "new improved" gcc break previously stable and trusted
free software does the movement as a whole no good at all.
Jeffrey A Law <law@cygnus.com> writes:
> > No, it allows _programmers_ that know what they are doing to get the
> > benefit of their knowledge by the simple expedient of adding -fstrict-alias
> > ing
> > to Makefile.in and forgetting about it.
> >
> > While protecting sys-admins and users of open-source products that just
> > build but do not write them from the bad habits that not-so-good/or
> > too-clever-for-their-own-good programmers have developed over the decades.
>So are you going to propose next that we turn off automatic register allocation
>because some programmers don't have enough of a clue to write correct code?
Of course not.
The code I am talking about has been working fine for years, and obviously
has no problems with register allocation and similar "old hat" optimizations.
My entire argument is based on the fact that there are
free/opensource applications "out there" which work fine with
gcc-1.3 .. gcc-2.8.1 which break with late egcs-1.1.* and gcc-2.95.*
Now when 'sys-admin@clueless.org' sends in a bug report on perl (say)
we say "get new release" or "add -fno-strict-aliasing to ccflags".
At best we make them spend 10s of minutes doing a rebuild and they are just
grumpy. At worst the tell their collegues/manager "this free software is
fragile, if any bit changes you have to go re-build everything" or similar.
And then there are packages out there which are not actively maintained...
> not using volatile for variables live across setjmp).
There is a warning for that. And if it is going to fail it will have failed
and so existing packages have it "right enough".
>
>Or are you going to propose that we turn off MEM_IN_STRUCT_P because some
>clueless programmer violated the assumptions for that optimization?
No, no 1000 times no. I don't care about "clueless" programmers - I care
about USERS of applications written by clever programmers that (ab)used aliasing
to get a job done.
--
Nick Ing-Simmons <nik@tiuk.ti.com>
Via, but not speaking for: Texas Instruments Ltd.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~1999-09-30 18:02 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 408+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
1999-09-08 19:13 Mike Stump
1999-09-08 19:31 ` Joe Buck
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Joe Buck
1999-09-09 7:12 ` Marc Espie
1999-09-09 20:35 ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-09-10 12:29 ` Sudish Joseph
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Sudish Joseph
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Marc Espie
1999-09-09 23:25 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-08 18:11 ` Joe Buck
1999-09-08 18:43 ` Mark Mitchell
1999-09-08 19:25 ` Joe Buck
1999-09-08 19:51 ` David Edelsohn
1999-09-30 18:02 ` David Edelsohn
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Joe Buck
1999-09-08 19:44 ` Joe Buck
1999-09-08 20:26 ` Mark Mitchell
1999-09-08 20:43 ` Joe Buck
1999-09-08 21:45 ` Mark Mitchell
1999-09-08 22:04 ` Joe Buck
1999-09-08 22:25 ` Mark Mitchell
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Mark Mitchell
1999-09-09 2:08 ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-09-09 10:51 ` Joe Buck
1999-09-09 16:51 ` John Vickers
1999-09-09 17:04 ` Joe Buck
1999-09-09 17:12 ` John Vickers
1999-09-30 18:02 ` John Vickers
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Joe Buck
1999-09-30 18:02 ` John Vickers
1999-09-15 2:07 ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Joe Buck
1999-09-09 23:26 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-09 23:38 ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-09 23:26 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-09-09 23:25 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-10 0:06 ` Mark Mitchell
1999-09-10 0:13 ` Joe Buck
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Joe Buck
1999-09-11 0:17 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Mark Mitchell
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Joe Buck
1999-09-08 23:20 ` Richard Henderson
1999-09-08 23:41 ` Mark Mitchell
1999-09-08 23:44 ` Richard Henderson
1999-09-08 23:51 ` Mark Mitchell
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Mark Mitchell
1999-09-09 2:45 ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Richard Henderson
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Mark Mitchell
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Richard Henderson
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Mark Mitchell
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Joe Buck
1999-09-08 21:33 ` Joe Buck
1999-09-08 21:56 ` Mark Mitchell
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Mark Mitchell
1999-09-09 1:38 ` Martin v. Loewis
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Martin v. Loewis
1999-09-09 23:25 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Joe Buck
1999-09-09 2:20 ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-09-09 7:58 ` craig
1999-09-09 10:36 ` Joe Buck
1999-09-09 10:55 ` Mark Mitchell
1999-09-11 0:15 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Mark Mitchell
1999-09-09 11:51 ` craig
1999-09-09 12:45 ` Joe Buck
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Joe Buck
1999-09-30 18:02 ` craig
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Joe Buck
1999-09-30 18:02 ` craig
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-09-09 23:26 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Mark Mitchell
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Joe Buck
1999-09-09 23:25 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-10 0:03 ` Mark Mitchell
1999-09-10 0:23 ` Joe Buck
1999-09-11 0:17 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Joe Buck
1999-09-11 0:17 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Mark Mitchell
1999-09-10 14:29 ` Marc Lehmann
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Marc Lehmann
1999-09-15 2:05 ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-09-15 7:55 ` Nick Ing-Simmons
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Nick Ing-Simmons
1999-09-15 23:14 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Mark Mitchell
1999-09-08 20:44 ` Joe Buck
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Joe Buck
1999-09-14 3:04 ` Alexandre Oliva
1999-09-14 5:34 ` Bernd Schmidt
1999-09-14 5:45 ` Alexandre Oliva
1999-09-14 5:52 ` Bernd Schmidt
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Bernd Schmidt
1999-09-21 1:16 ` Rask Ingemann Lambertsen
1999-09-21 2:02 ` Jamie Lokier
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Jamie Lokier
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Rask Ingemann Lambertsen
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Alexandre Oliva
1999-09-14 9:31 ` Andi Kleen
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Andi Kleen
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Bernd Schmidt
1999-09-14 22:22 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Alexandre Oliva
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Joe Buck
1999-09-10 0:11 ` Joe Buck
1999-09-10 8:43 ` craig
1999-09-10 18:25 ` Jonathan Larmour
1999-09-11 3:50 ` craig
1999-09-30 18:02 ` craig
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Jonathan Larmour
1999-09-11 0:15 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-11 3:51 ` craig
1999-09-12 0:51 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-12 8:54 ` craig
1999-09-13 0:47 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` craig
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` craig
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` craig
1999-09-11 0:14 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-11 15:20 ` Mark Mitchell
1999-09-11 18:04 ` David Edelsohn
1999-09-11 18:20 ` Mark Mitchell
1999-09-11 23:40 ` Sudish Joseph
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Sudish Joseph
1999-09-12 8:16 ` Robert Lipe
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Robert Lipe
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Mark Mitchell
1999-09-13 0:47 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-15 2:06 ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-09-15 8:02 ` Nick Ing-Simmons
1999-09-15 9:20 ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-09-15 9:31 ` David Edelsohn
1999-09-15 10:02 ` craig
1999-09-16 23:13 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-17 1:51 ` craig
1999-09-17 22:16 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` craig
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` craig
1999-09-30 18:02 ` David Edelsohn
1999-09-15 9:56 ` Nick Ing-Simmons [this message]
1999-09-15 10:08 ` craig
1999-09-15 10:48 ` Nick Ing-Simmons
1999-09-15 14:32 ` craig
1999-09-30 18:02 ` craig
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Nick Ing-Simmons
1999-09-16 10:54 ` Andi Kleen
1999-09-16 12:08 ` Joern Rennecke
1999-09-16 12:18 ` Mark Mitchell
1999-09-17 7:07 ` __typealias qualifier (was Re: type based aliasing again) patl
1999-09-17 8:32 ` Mark Mitchell
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Mark Mitchell
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Patrick J. LoPresti
1999-09-30 18:02 ` type based aliasing again Mark Mitchell
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Joern Rennecke
1999-09-16 14:29 ` craig
1999-09-16 22:19 ` Andi Kleen
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Andi Kleen
1999-09-30 18:02 ` craig
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Andi Kleen
1999-09-16 23:13 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` craig
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Nick Ing-Simmons
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Nick Ing-Simmons
1999-09-15 23:14 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` David Edelsohn
1999-09-12 9:45 ` Jonathan Larmour
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Jonathan Larmour
1999-09-13 0:47 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-13 4:05 ` Richard Earnshaw
1999-09-15 2:05 ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Richard Earnshaw
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Mark Mitchell
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Joe Buck
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Mike Stump
1999-09-09 14:26 Mike Stump
1999-09-09 14:38 ` Mark Mitchell
1999-09-11 0:16 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-15 2:07 ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Mark Mitchell
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Mike Stump
1999-09-09 15:40 Claus Fischer
1999-09-09 15:57 ` David Starner
1999-09-09 16:24 ` Claus Fischer
1999-09-09 16:55 ` Joe Buck
1999-09-09 17:31 ` Claus Fischer
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Claus Fischer
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Joe Buck
1999-09-10 8:42 ` craig
1999-09-30 18:02 ` craig
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Claus Fischer
1999-09-30 18:02 ` David Starner
1999-09-09 16:37 ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-09-09 17:15 ` Claus Fischer
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Claus Fischer
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Claus Fischer
1999-09-09 21:54 Alex Rosenberg
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Alex Rosenberg
1999-09-10 8:43 craig
1999-09-12 0:49 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` craig
1999-09-11 18:21 Phil Edwards
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Phil Edwards
1999-09-11 21:48 N8TM
1999-09-30 18:02 ` N8TM
[not found] <9377.936981585@upchuck.cygnus.com>
1999-09-12 0:52 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-12 11:20 Josh Stern
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Josh Stern
1999-09-13 10:55 R. Kelley Cook
1999-09-13 13:22 ` craig
1999-09-30 18:02 ` craig
1999-09-30 18:02 ` R. Kelley Cook
1999-09-13 16:34 Mike Stump
1999-09-14 22:20 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Mike Stump
1999-09-13 21:45 N8TM
1999-09-14 4:01 ` Marc Espie
1999-09-14 9:56 ` David Edelsohn
1999-09-14 10:10 ` Richard Earnshaw
1999-09-14 10:31 ` Nick Ing-Simmons
1999-09-14 10:52 ` David Edelsohn
1999-09-14 11:11 ` craig
1999-09-14 14:44 ` David Edelsohn
1999-09-30 18:02 ` David Edelsohn
1999-09-14 15:06 ` David Edelsohn
1999-09-14 17:35 ` Marc Lehmann
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Marc Lehmann
1999-09-14 23:41 ` craig
1999-09-15 8:28 ` Marc Lehmann
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Marc Lehmann
1999-09-15 9:19 ` David Edelsohn
1999-09-15 9:59 ` Nick Ing-Simmons
1999-09-15 15:33 ` David Edelsohn
1999-09-30 18:02 ` David Edelsohn
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Nick Ing-Simmons
1999-09-15 10:01 ` craig
1999-09-30 18:02 ` craig
1999-09-30 18:02 ` David Edelsohn
1999-09-30 18:02 ` craig
1999-09-30 18:02 ` David Edelsohn
1999-09-30 18:02 ` craig
1999-09-14 11:58 ` Gerald Pfeifer
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Gerald Pfeifer
1999-09-30 18:02 ` David Edelsohn
1999-09-14 11:01 ` craig
1999-09-14 11:14 ` craig
1999-09-30 18:02 ` craig
1999-09-14 11:39 ` Mark Mitchell
1999-09-14 14:48 ` Toon Moene
1999-09-14 15:00 ` David Edelsohn
1999-09-14 16:01 ` Toon Moene
1999-09-14 16:15 ` David Edelsohn
1999-09-14 16:43 ` Mark Mitchell
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Mark Mitchell
1999-09-14 17:39 ` Marc Lehmann
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Marc Lehmann
1999-09-30 18:02 ` David Edelsohn
1999-09-14 16:19 ` dvv
1999-09-14 17:38 ` Michael Meissner
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Michael Meissner
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Dima Volodin
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Toon Moene
1999-09-30 18:02 ` David Edelsohn
1999-09-14 15:08 ` Mark Mitchell
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Mark Mitchell
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Toon Moene
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Mark Mitchell
1999-09-30 18:02 ` craig
1999-09-14 23:46 ` Geoff Keating
1999-09-15 7:47 ` Nick Ing-Simmons
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Nick Ing-Simmons
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Geoff Keating
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Nick Ing-Simmons
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Richard Earnshaw
1999-09-14 17:22 ` Marc Lehmann
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Marc Lehmann
1999-09-30 18:02 ` David Edelsohn
1999-09-14 17:23 ` Marc Lehmann
1999-09-15 1:59 ` Marc Espie
1999-09-15 8:28 ` Marc Lehmann
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Marc Lehmann
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Marc Espie
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Marc Lehmann
1999-09-15 2:01 ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Marc Espie
1999-09-30 18:02 ` N8TM
1999-09-14 6:46 Marcel Cox
1999-09-14 6:50 ` Bernd Schmidt
1999-09-14 7:14 ` Marcel Cox
1999-09-14 8:45 ` Jamie Lokier
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Jamie Lokier
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Marcel Cox
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Bernd Schmidt
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Marcel Cox
1999-09-15 7:02 David Ronis
1999-09-30 18:02 ` David Ronis
1999-09-15 8:27 Kaveh R. Ghazi
1999-09-15 8:57 ` Nathan Sidwell
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Nathan Sidwell
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Kaveh R. Ghazi
1999-09-15 11:42 Michael J. Bedy
1999-09-15 14:32 ` craig
1999-09-16 23:14 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` craig
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Michael J. Bedy
1999-09-15 21:47 Florin Mateoc
1999-09-16 2:18 ` craig
1999-09-30 18:02 ` craig
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Florin Mateoc
[not found] <Pine.SO4.4.05.9909160153420.23533-100000@tamarack.cs.mtu.edu>
1999-09-16 2:19 ` craig
1999-09-30 18:02 ` craig
1999-09-16 6:12 Artem Hodyush
1999-09-16 23:15 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-16 23:38 ` Gabriel Dos_Reis
1999-09-17 22:16 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Gabriel Dos_Reis
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Artem Hodyush
[not found] <199909161750.LAA12073@basho.fc.hp.com>
1999-09-16 14:29 ` craig
1999-09-20 15:17 ` John W. Stevens
1999-09-30 18:02 ` John W. Stevens
1999-09-30 18:02 ` craig
1999-09-17 9:02 Harvey J. Stein
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Harvey J. Stein
1999-09-18 2:51 Ross Morgan-Linial
[not found] ` <19990918151905.F1650@cerebro.laendle>
1999-09-18 22:18 ` Ross Morgan-Linial
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Ross Morgan-Linial
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Ross Morgan-Linial
1999-09-18 3:25 Artem Hodyush
1999-09-18 11:29 ` Russ Allbery
1999-09-20 5:54 ` Joern Rennecke
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Joern Rennecke
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Russ Allbery
1999-09-19 13:54 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-21 8:50 ` Harvey J. Stein
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Harvey J. Stein
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Artem Hodyush
1999-09-18 7:30 Stephen L Moshier
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Stephen L Moshier
1999-09-18 8:33 N8TM
1999-09-30 18:02 ` N8TM
1999-09-21 8:48 Harvey J. Stein
1999-09-22 12:15 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-22 13:08 ` Harvey J. Stein
1999-09-24 23:37 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Harvey J. Stein
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Richard Stallman
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Harvey J. Stein
[not found] <19990921182843.25292.qmail@deer>
1999-09-21 15:47 ` John W. Stevens
1999-09-21 16:15 ` craig
1999-09-21 20:37 ` David Edelsohn
1999-09-30 18:02 ` David Edelsohn
1999-09-23 9:06 ` John W. Stevens
1999-09-23 11:06 ` craig
1999-09-30 18:02 ` craig
1999-09-30 18:02 ` John W. Stevens
1999-09-30 18:02 ` craig
1999-09-27 6:56 ` Rask Ingemann Lambertsen
1999-09-27 8:32 ` Joe Buck
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Joe Buck
1999-09-30 18:02 ` Rask Ingemann Lambertsen
1999-09-30 18:02 ` John W. Stevens
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