Re: config.guess and Linux/GNU

Re: config.guess and Linux/GNU

[Mike Stump]

> To: Mike Stump <mrs@windriver.com>
> Cc: config-patches@gnu.org, gcc-patches@gcc.gnu.org, gcc@gcc.gnu.org
> From: Per Bothner <per@bothner.com>
> Date: 12 Jun 2000 16:37:41 -0700

> Mike Stump <mrs@windriver.com> writes:

> > Hog wash.  As the author of config.guess let me sed [sic] some light.

> Is my mind getting feeble?  I distinctly remember being the original
> author and for some years the maintainer of config.guess.  ((Hurridly
> checks config.guess.))  Yep, that sure looks like my name.

This reminds me, could someone put up the old gcc2 archives (and the
older list as well) up on the web site, if nothing else, as big flat
files for download.  They are great for mining bits and pieces of
information.  I know some people have them, love to see them not get
lost.

gcc2 archives (was re: config.guess and Linux/GNU)

[Joe Buck]

Mike Stump writes:

> This reminds me, could someone put up the old gcc2 archives (and the
> older list as well) up on the web site, if nothing else, as big flat
> files for download.  They are great for mining bits and pieces of
> information.  I know some people have them, love to see them not get
> lost.

I'm not sure we can ethically do that.  The reason is that gcc2 was
operated as a closed list, and many people who posted to it believed that
their words were semi-private.  Even the location of the snapshots was
a secret.

Now, many of us did not like that policy and that's why we started egcs,
where we operate more in public (although the SC does occasionally have a
private discussion).  But because the conditions were different in the
gcc2 days, to publish the gcc2 archives would be to publish peoples' words
without their permission.

Re: gcc2 archives (was re: config.guess and Linux/GNU)

[Michael Meissner]

On Mon, Jun 19, 2000 at 02:04:42PM -0700, Jason Molenda wrote:
> I can't resist an opportunity to plug an old hobby of mine.
> 
> Michael Meissner wrote:
> 
> > Thus for people interested in really old software archaeology, you
> > would have to look for caches of old releases (or private archives
> 
> 
> Like, oh, say ftp://gcc.gnu.org/pub/gcc/old-releases/ ?
> 
> There are even a couple of patches to gcc 1.40 for MIPS processors
> in the archive from some meissner@osf.ORG guy.  

Probably a few 88k patches from meissner@dg-rtp.dg.com as well :-)

-- 
Michael Meissner, Red Hat, Inc.
PMB 198, 174 Littleton Road #3, Westford, Massachusetts 01886, USA
Work:	  meissner@redhat.com		phone: +1 978-486-9304
Non-work: meissner@spectacle-pond.org	fax:   +1 978-692-4482

Re: gcc2 archives (was re: config.guess and Linux/GNU)

[Jason Molenda]

I can't resist an opportunity to plug an old hobby of mine.

Michael Meissner wrote:

> Thus for people interested in really old software archaeology, you
> would have to look for caches of old releases (or private archives


Like, oh, say ftp://gcc.gnu.org/pub/gcc/old-releases/ ?

There are even a couple of patches to gcc 1.40 for MIPS processors
in the archive from some meissner@osf.ORG guy.  

Every old version of GCC that I could dig up back in '95 is in this
dir -- if anyone has an older version of gcc that I'm missing
(anything older than 1.35), drop me a line.  I'm pretty certain that
I scrounged up every old GCC version that is on public ftp sites back
when I assembled this collection.


Jason

PS- Similar archives of old GDB and Binutils releases are on
sourceware.cygnus.com.

Re: gcc2 archives (was re: config.guess and Linux/GNU)

[Richard Kenner]

    Also, the documentation files weren't kept under source code control
    either.

They were added about halfway between the start and when ChangeLogs were:

vlsi1% cvs log invoke.texi | tail
Formerly invoke.texi.~362~
----------------------------
revision 1.2
date: 1996/10/09 20:19:51;  author: kenner;  state: Exp;  lines: +2 -2
Formerly invoke.texi.~320~
----------------------------
revision 1.1
date: 1996/09/30 20:51:53;  author: meissner;  state: Exp;
Initial revision
=============================================================================

Re: gcc2 archives (was re: config.guess and Linux/GNU)

[Michael Meissner]

On Thu, Jun 18, 1970 at 09:39:30PM -0400, Richard Kenner wrote:
>     I'm sure MRS knows this, but just so everybody else is on the same
>     page -- the CVS/RCS archives only go back a year or so.  For at least
>     the first 6-8 years no source code control system at all was used
> 
> No.  That's true just for ChangeLog, but not for the other files.
> Version 1.1 of the compiler code is from late February and early March
> of 1992.

Ok my memory is off of when source code control was first used, but it
definately wasn't used in 1988 when I first starting hacking on GCC (gcc 1.27 I
believe).  Also, the documentation files weren't kept under source code control
either.

-- 
Michael Meissner, Red Hat, Inc.
PMB 198, 174 Littleton Road #3, Westford, Massachusetts 01886, USA
Work:	  meissner@redhat.com		phone: +1 978-486-9304
Non-work: meissner@spectacle-pond.org	fax:   +1 978-692-4482

Re: gcc2 archives (was re: config.guess and Linux/GNU)

[Richard Kenner]

    I'm sure MRS knows this, but just so everybody else is on the same
    page -- the CVS/RCS archives only go back a year or so.  For at least
    the first 6-8 years no source code control system at all was used

No.  That's true just for ChangeLog, but not for the other files.
Version 1.1 of the compiler code is from late February and early March
of 1992.

E.g.:

vlsi1% cvs log cse.c | tail
*** empty log message ***
----------------------------
revision 1.2
date: 1992/03/14 05:03:35;  author: rms;  state: Exp;  lines: +75 -6
*** empty log message ***
----------------------------
revision 1.1
date: 1992/02/27 12:48:10;  author: kenner;  state: Exp;
Initial revision
=============================================================================

Re: gcc2 archives (was re: config.guess and Linux/GNU)

[Michael Meissner]

On Sun, Jun 18, 2000 at 12:37:00PM -0700, Mike Stump wrote:
> > Date: Sat, 17 Jun 00 12:56:25 EDT
> > From: kenner@vlsi1.ultra.nyu.edu (Richard Kenner)
> 
> > However, we can certainly make the last gcc2 CVS tree available, if
> > it would be useful.  I have it on my machine.
> 
> I would love to see a pointer to the old cvs archives on the gcc
> website, but in such a way as to not be confusing to a new user trying
> to find gcc.  If I'm lucky, the old cvs stuff was built up directly
> from the old rcs files.

I'm sure MRS knows this, but just so everybody else is on the same page -- the
CVS/RCS archives only go back a year or so.  For at least the first 6-8 years
no source code control system at all was used (other than an admonition to set
the emacs variables kept-old-versions and kept-new-versions to over 100).  Thus
for people interested in really old software archaeology, you would have to
look for caches of old releases (or private archives -- for example, I would
check GCC into SCCS and ODE source code control systems at Data General and OSF
respectively).

-- 
Michael Meissner, Red Hat, Inc.
PMB 198, 174 Littleton Road #3, Westford, Massachusetts 01886, USA
Work:	  meissner@redhat.com		phone: +1 978-486-9304
Non-work: meissner@spectacle-pond.org	fax:   +1 978-692-4482

Re: gcc2 archives (was re: config.guess and Linux/GNU)

[Richard Kenner]

    I would love to see a pointer to the old cvs archives on the gcc
    website, but in such a way as to not be confusing to a new user trying
    to find gcc.

I can't host it, but I can certainly ship off the files to somebody who can.

    If I'm lucky, the old cvs stuff was built up directly from the old rcs
    files.

The old CVS stuff *is* the set of old RCS files: we switched from using
RCS to CVS, but kept the same set of files throughout.

Re: gcc2 archives (was re: config.guess and Linux/GNU)

[Mike Stump]

> Date: Sat, 17 Jun 00 12:56:25 EDT
> From: kenner@vlsi1.ultra.nyu.edu (Richard Kenner)

> However, we can certainly make the last gcc2 CVS tree available, if
> it would be useful.  I have it on my machine.

I would love to see a pointer to the old cvs archives on the gcc
website, but in such a way as to not be confusing to a new user trying
to find gcc.  If I'm lucky, the old cvs stuff was built up directly
from the old rcs files.

Re: gcc2 archives (was re: config.guess and Linux/GNU)

[Richard Kenner]

    I'm not sure we can ethically do that.  The reason is that gcc2 was
    operated as a closed list, and many people who posted to it believed
    that their words were semi-private.  

I don't think the issue is privacy, per se, but that when people write to
a list that has a relatively small readership, then can write in a much more
casual form and take less care in the choice of words than when what they
write will be archived forever and available to the public.

    But because the conditions were different in the gcc2 days, to publish
    the gcc2 archives would be to publish peoples' words without their
    permission.

I agree: it's not proper to take somebody's words witten with one set of
assumptions on how they will be used and use them another way.  It's also
likely a copyright violation.

However, we can certainly make the last gcc2 CVS tree available, if it would
be useful.  I have it on my machine.