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From: Marc Espie <espie@quatramaran.ens.fr>
To: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@transmeta.com>
Cc: gcc@gcc.gnu.org
Subject: Re: GCC's statement expression extension
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 01:40:00 -0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20000729104033.A7967@quatramaran.ens.fr> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10007282122500.936-100000@penguin.transmeta.com>

On Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 09:27:58PM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> Nobody hos shown any reasonable problem with the current statement
> expressions in C. Yes, C++ may have problems. I think C++ has problems
> regardless of statement expressions. Yet people have seriously proposed
> making statement expressions deprecated in gcc (even in the C side of
> things), even though they don't actually have any real problems associated
> with them.

The largest problem C++ currently has is C stuff that does not compile in C++
and shows up in C headers. That makes those headers useless for C++.

Statement expressions is part of the problem.

The other part is that statement expressions are gcc extensions. And thus,
not compilable with anything but gcc... as long as they're defined in
gcc-only include fragments, with a suitable fragment elsewhere, they could
be fine.

In practice, within some highly visible software, the alternative won't be
tested often (if it exists).
Hence it won't be robust at all, and will break fairly often.

This results in a tight coupling between a compiler, a language and a system.

Show me how this can be a good thing.

  reply	other threads:[~2000-07-29  1:40 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 107+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2000-07-21 16:31 Joseph S. Myers
2000-07-23  9:39 ` Jeffrey A Law
2000-07-23  9:52   ` Mark Mitchell
2000-07-24 15:48     ` Geoff Keating
2000-07-25  8:44       ` Mark Mitchell
2000-07-26 21:25       ` Richard Henderson
2000-07-26 21:24     ` Richard Henderson
2000-07-26 21:38       ` Mark Mitchell
2000-07-26 22:51         ` Linus Torvalds
2000-07-26 23:14           ` statement expressions Mark Mitchell
2000-07-27 21:14           ` GCC's statement expression extension Marc Espie
2000-07-27 21:28             ` Mark Mitchell
2000-07-27 21:29             ` Mo McKinlay
2000-07-28  0:45               ` Akbar A.
2000-07-28  7:27               ` Michael Meissner
2000-07-28 11:50             ` Linus Torvalds
2000-07-28 21:14               ` Marc Espie
2000-07-28 21:28                 ` Linus Torvalds
2000-07-29  1:40                   ` Marc Espie [this message]
2000-07-30 10:21                     ` Linus Torvalds
2000-07-27  4:34         ` Joseph S. Myers
2000-07-27  4:53           ` Gabriel Dos Reis
2000-07-27  9:42           ` Mark Mitchell
2000-07-27 15:14             ` Iterators (was: Re: GCC's statement expression extension) Joseph S. Myers
2000-07-27 22:26               ` Mark Mitchell
2000-07-27 17:32             ` GCC's statement expression extension Michael Meissner
2000-07-27 14:51           ` Alexandre Oliva
2000-07-29 10:41         ` Per Bothner
2000-07-29 14:36           ` Jamie Lokier
2000-07-27 18:24 Richard Kenner
2000-07-27 18:38 ` Mark Mitchell
2000-07-27 19:21   ` Michael Meissner
2000-07-27 21:15     ` Jim Wilson
2000-07-28  7:31       ` Michael Meissner
2000-07-28  9:08         ` Nick Ing-Simmons
2000-07-28  9:19           ` Gabriel Dos Reis
2000-07-28  9:37             ` Nick Ing-Simmons
2000-07-27 23:53   ` Gabriel Dos Reis
2000-07-28 12:08   ` Stan Shebs
2000-07-28 12:16     ` Gabriel Dos Reis
2000-07-28 13:07       ` Stan Shebs
2000-07-28 12:28     ` Mark Mitchell
2000-07-28 14:08       ` Stan Shebs
2000-07-28 17:49         ` llewelly
2000-07-28 22:54           ` Mark Mitchell
2000-07-28 22:40         ` Mark Mitchell
2000-07-29 10:28           ` Per Bothner
2000-07-29 10:43             ` Mark Mitchell
2000-07-29 11:48               ` Alexandre Oliva
2000-07-29 12:09                 ` Mark Mitchell
2000-07-29 12:30                   ` Alexandre Oliva
2000-07-29 12:52                     ` Mark Mitchell
2000-07-29 14:07                       ` Alexandre Oliva
2000-07-30 10:06                         ` Mark Mitchell
2000-07-30  9:29                   ` Per Bothner
2000-07-30 11:23                 ` Linus Torvalds
2000-07-29 18:00               ` Per Bothner
2000-07-29 16:20         ` Marc Espie
2000-07-27 18:41 Richard Kenner
2000-07-27 19:15 ` Mark Mitchell
2000-07-28  3:59   ` Marc Espie
2000-07-28  8:11     ` Mark Mitchell
2000-08-02 15:00   ` Kamil Iskra
2000-08-02 15:14     ` Mo McKinlay
2000-08-02 15:18     ` Mark Mitchell
2000-07-27 19:20 Richard Kenner
2000-07-27 19:26 ` Mark Mitchell
2000-07-30 12:09   ` Linus Torvalds
2000-07-27 19:29 Richard Kenner
2000-07-27 19:39 ` Jeffrey A Law
2000-07-27 19:45   ` Michael Meissner
2000-07-27 20:16     ` Mark Mitchell
2000-07-27 20:50       ` Michael Meissner
2000-07-27 20:57         ` Jim Wilson
2000-07-27 21:25         ` Mark Mitchell
2000-07-27 20:14 ` Mark Mitchell
2000-07-27 19:46 Richard Kenner
2000-07-27 21:11 ` Jim Wilson
2000-07-28 12:01 Anjul Srivastava
2000-07-28 12:11 ` Gabriel Dos Reis
2000-07-28 13:33 ` sidster
2000-07-28 12:14 Kaveh R. Ghazi
2000-07-28 12:22 ` Mark Mitchell
2000-07-28 13:08 Kaveh R. Ghazi
2000-07-28 13:45 ` Mark Mitchell
2000-07-30  3:49 Richard Kenner
2000-07-31  9:31 Phil Edwards
2000-08-01 18:14 Mike Stump
2000-08-01 21:52 ` Mark Mitchell
2000-08-02 16:59 ` Alexandre Oliva
2000-08-02 21:01   ` Per Bothner
2000-08-02 13:44 Mike Stump
2000-08-03 10:55 ` Jamie Lokier
2000-08-03 16:13   ` Mark Mitchell
2000-08-04 12:38     ` Kamil Iskra
2000-08-04 13:24       ` Mark Mitchell
2000-08-05 11:56         ` Kamil Iskra
2000-08-05 12:03           ` Mark Mitchell
2000-08-03 14:32 Mike Stump
2000-08-04  4:36 ` Jamie Lokier
2000-08-04  9:04   ` Mark Mitchell
2000-08-04  9:26     ` Jamie Lokier
2000-08-04 13:19       ` Mark Mitchell
2000-08-03 16:48 John Marshall
2000-08-03 16:55 ` Mark Mitchell
2000-08-04  5:39 Mark Kettenis
2000-08-04  9:06 ` Mark Mitchell

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