RE: AutoGen + Guile for fixinc maintenance

RE: AutoGen + Guile for fixinc maintenance

[Bruce Korb]

> -----Original Question-----

>    Can we change the AutoGen version required to rebuild fixincludes
>    from 4.x to 5.x?  Doing so will also require that the Guile library
>    be installed on a GCC-maintainer's system (in addition to AutoGen 5.x).
>    Leastwise, any maintainer that touches the fix definitions.

RMS reply:
> That is a vital distinction.  If every GCC maintainer had to have
> Guile running, that might cause a practical hassle.  Some people must
> maintain GCC for Windows, and they might only use Windows.
> 
> But if people only need Autogen and Guile if they change the
> fixincludes script, and thus people can't maintain the fixincludes
> script on Windows, maybe that is ok.
> 
> Is fixincludes used on Windows?

No.  Well, not the generated program, anyway.  The definitive
answer comes from mkfixinc.sh.  In simple English, WinNT uses
its own script (for now?) and DOS uses nothing.

   case $machine in
   ...
   alpha*-*-winnt* | \
   i?86-*-winnt3*)
        fixincludes=fixinc.winnt
        ;;
   ...
   i?86-moss-msdos* | i?86-*-moss* | \
   ... )
        fixincludes=
        ;;
   esac

   #  IF there is no include fixing,
   #  THEN create a no-op fixer and exit
   #
   if test -z "$fixincludes"
   then
       (echo "#! /bin/sh" ; echo "exit 0" ) > ${target}
       chmod 755 ${target}
       exit 0
   fi

Re: AutoGen + Guile for fixinc maintenance

[Laurynas Biveinis]

> No.  Well, not the generated program, anyway.  The definitive
> answer comes from mkfixinc.sh.  In simple English, WinNT uses
> its own script (for now?) and DOS uses nothing.

Not exactly. DJGPP (i?86-pc-msdosdjgpp, not listed by you below)
uses fixincludes nowadays.

>    case $machine in
>    ...
>    alpha*-*-winnt* | \
>    i?86-*-winnt3*)
>         fixincludes=fixinc.winnt
>         ;;
>    ...
>    i?86-moss-msdos* | i?86-*-moss* | \
>    ... )
>         fixincludes=
>         ;;
>    esac

Laurynas

Re: AutoGen + Guile for fixinc maintenance

[Richard Stallman]

    Not exactly. DJGPP (i?86-pc-msdosdjgpp, not listed by you below)
    uses fixincludes nowadays.

Is DJGPP supposed to use the fixincludes script that is generated using
AutoGen?

Does Guile run on MSDOS?

Re: AutoGen + Guile for fixinc maintenance

[Laurynas Biveinis]

> Is DJGPP supposed to use the fixincludes script that is generated using
> AutoGen?

Yes.

> Does Guile run on MSDOS?

No. (Strictly speaking, I don't know, but I assume Bruce knows)

Laurynas
 

Re: AutoGen + Guile for fixinc maintenance

[Richard Stallman]

    This means their situation would not change no matter what.
    All variations of AutoGen require bi-directional pipes to
    subprocesses.  That is not DOS.  :-(

Please correct me if I am wrong; it appears that the situation is

* Converting to AutoGen 5 would make no difference on MSDOS
since they can't run either version.

* Converting to AutoGen 5 would make little difference on Windows
because fixinc is not used on Windows.

Given these facts, we should definitely upgrade the script.  Even if
*maintenance* of AutoGen 4 takes "no work", the need to continue
distributing it complicates the overall system and creates various
opportunities for confusion.

RE: AutoGen + Guile for fixinc maintenance

[Bruce Korb]

>     Not exactly. DJGPP (i?86-pc-msdosdjgpp, not listed by you below)
>     uses fixincludes nowadays.
> 
> Is DJGPP supposed to use the fixincludes script that is 
> generated using AutoGen?

Yes.

> Does Guile run on MSDOS?

Not to my knowledge.    However, AutoGen won't work without
bi-directional pipes.  That is quite foreign to DOS.

RE: AutoGen + Guile for fixinc maintenance

[Bruce Korb]

> > ...how would you feel about having to [use] a
> > separate box when you needed a fixinc change for msdos?  
> 
> I already have to do that. ... but I know
> at least one other DJGPP port maintainer, who does not have
> access to Linux/GNU or any other unix-like OS.

This means their situation would not change no matter what.
All variations of AutoGen require bi-directional pipes to
subprocesses.  That is not DOS.  :-(

So, given that a new AutoGen requirement won't change your
situation anyway, and given that I am not hearing loud
complaints from those who can use AG-4 and not AG-5, and
finally given RMS's strong preference, I will rewrite the
templates as AG-5 templates and post them a week or two
before I install them.  I do hope I can get AG-5 Debianized
at some point...

Cheers,
	Bruce

RMS said:
>    1.  Continue as we are...
>    2.  Port mini-Guile to Windows...
>    3.  Require access to Guile-box for fixinc changes...
>    4.  Assume it is a non-issue...
>
> To depend on an old version of a program is a bad state of affairs.
> We should avoid it if that is feasible.  #1 is the worst choice.
>
> If fixincludes is not used on Windows, the best solution is #4, which
> may be a no-op.  Otherwise, I think #3 is best, unless and until
> someone does the work for #2.

[p.s. there will be a few hours' work changing the template.
      The result should be more comprehensible, tho, too.]

Re: AutoGen + Guile for fixinc maintenance

[Laurynas Biveinis]

> So, as (one of) the prime maintainers of msdosdjgpp, how
> would you feel about having to regenerate fixincl.x on a
> separate box when you needed a fixinc change for msdos?  

I already have to do that. Autogen does not build out-of-box
under DJGPP anyway. So personally I don't care, but I know
at least one other DJGPP port maintainer, which does not have
access to Linux/GNU or any other unix-like OS.

Laurynas

RE: AutoGen + Guile for fixinc maintenance

[Bruce Korb]

> > No.  Well, not the generated program, anyway.  The definitive
> > answer comes from mkfixinc.sh.  In simple English, WinNT uses
> > its own script (for now?) and one variant of DOS uses nothing.
> 
> Not exactly. DJGPP (i?86-pc-msdosdjgpp, not listed by you below)
> uses fixincludes nowadays.

The (mis)advantage of defaulting ...  :-)

So, as (one of) the prime maintainers of msdosdjgpp, how
would you feel about having to regenerate fixincl.x on a
separate box when you needed a fixinc change for msdos?  You
wind up with a bit of a hassle, but I don't have to bother
maintaining two versions of AutoGen.  Since I have put
more effort into these emails than I have in the AG-4.x
maintenance for the past year or so, I don't really care
a whole bunch.  Besides, I think some day a stripped down
variant of Guile will become available anyway.  :-)

Cheers,
	Bruce