Re: Documentation

Re: Documentation

[dewar]

I definitely agree with this comment, I have never liked the odd use of
the back quote.

Re: Documentation

[Florian Weimer]

Frank Klemm <pfk@fuchs.offl.uni-jena.de> writes:

> The GNU quotation style is wrong, which uses apostrophe and accent grave for
> quotation:
> 
> 
> 	`hi!'

I don't see any problem with that in Texinfo source files.  However, I
agree that Info viewers (and probably makeinfo HTML and text
generation) should be adjusted to deal with quotation marks in the
same way as texi2dvi already does.

However, I don't think this is the proper forum to discuss these
issues.

-- 
Florian Weimer 	                  Florian.Weimer@RUS.Uni-Stuttgart.DE
University of Stuttgart           http://cert.uni-stuttgart.de/
RUS-CERT                          +49-711-685-5973/fax +49-711-685-5898

Re: Documentation

[Marc Espie]

In article < 20010919230554.A4190@fuchs.offl.uni-jena.de > you write:
>
>The GNU quotation style is wrong, which uses apostrophe and accent grave for
>quotation:

>
>	`hi!'


As far as TexInfo stuff goes, this is an issue with the way it works, to be
taken with people who maintain that program.

Specifically, TeXinfo can produce different formats, including TeX output.
And this usage of quotation marks in TeX predates unicode by a very, very
large margin...

As far as it goes, if you use vertical quotation marks in TeXinfo, you will
lose some valuable semantic information that may be hard to get back.

It should probably be possible to recognize `' as parenthesis, and do 
whatever  you want with them for info/ascii/html output. Yep, even output
the proper Unicode quotation marks...

Re: Documentation

[Joseph S. Myers]

On Wed, 19 Sep 2001, Frank Klemm wrote:

> For a good explanation of the problem see also:
> 
>     http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/ucs/quotes.html

I previously pointed this out on gcc-patches
<URL: http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2001-02/msg01023.html >.  The proper
solution (working e.g. with modern X installations) involves using the
Unicode quotes where possible.  Perhaps you would like to work out with
the maintainers of the GNU Coding Standards the best way of handling this
for diagnostic strings, and with the Texinfo maintainers how to transition
the Info format?  Remember that the Texinfo source files of the manual are
TeX input files and so this usage is correct there; the Info manual is
inevitably going to be much uglier than the printed one, but in principle
it should be possible to use the Unicode quotes there (with makeinfo
translating in ordinary text but not @code/@samp).

I.e., work out the *right* long-term solution first rather than changing
huge numbers of diagnostics twice (with consequent changes in all the
translations - though since GNU libc 2.2 supports transliteration of
message catalogs, translators could (should?) be using Unicode quotes in
their translated messages and UTF-8 encoded .po files now).

-- 
Joseph S. Myers
jsm28@cam.ac.uk

Documentation

[Frank Klemm]

The GNU quotation style is wrong, which uses apostrophe and accent grave for
quotation:


	`hi!'

On modern terminals this look like:


      ###                              ##
        ##      ##         ##     ##   ##
         ##     ##         ##     ##   ##
           #    ##                ##   ##
                ## ###    ###     ##
                ###  ##    ##     ##
                ##   ##    ##     ##
                ##   ##    ##
                ##   ##    ##     ##
                ##   ##   ####    ##


which is wrong and also looks very ugly.
The right way to quote is:

	'hi!'

which looks like

           ##                          ##
           ##   ##         ##     ##   ##
           ##   ##         ##     ##   ##
           ##   ##                ##   ##
                ## ###    ###     ##
                ###  ##    ##     ##
                ##   ##    ##     ##
                ##   ##    ##
                ##   ##    ##     ##
                ##   ##   ####    ##


For a good explanation of the problem see also:

    http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/ucs/quotes.html

There is also a script to solve the problem.

BTW: The whole webpage http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/ is interesting to read.

-- 
Frank Klemm
 

Re: Documentation

[Rafael Rodríguez Velilla]

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> You can find a document describing the ARM Procedure Call Standard at:
>   http://hammer.prohosting.com/~rodp/armref/apcs.txt

  This reference seems to be what I was looking for.
  Thank you


--
Rafael Rodríguez Velilla        rrv@tid.es
Telefónica I+D          http://www.tid.es
Telf: 34 - 1 - 91 337 4270

Re: Documentation

[Nick Burrett]

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Rafael Rodríguez Velilla <rrv@tid.es> writes:

>    I'm looking for documentation on how does gcc manges function
> callings and how it organices the compiled code and data into the
> different sections that it generates.
> 
>   I'm compiling for ARM with gcc and I'm mixing C code and assembler.
> 
>   Is there such a documentation?

You can find a document describing the ARM Procedure Call Standard at:
  http://hammer.prohosting.com/~rodp/armref/apcs.txt


Nick.

Re: Documentation

[Richard Earnshaw]

> GCC on ARM follows the ARM Procedure Call Standard (APCS), which
> basically boils down to:
> 
> - First four arguments to a function go into r0 - r3. Extra arguments
>   are pushed onto the stack in reverse order (somebody please correct
>   me if I'm wrong).

Pretty much, unless you are using a floating point variant that passes 
arguments in f0-f3; but gcc doesn't support these.

Stack is full-descending -- that is the stack pointer register points to 
the last allocated element on the stack and the next free one is 4 bytes 
below that.  Arguments from C functions are passed with the last argument 
on the list at the highest address on the stack, except as noted above: 
the first four words are passed in r0 through r3.

> - The return value of the function goes into r0.
> 
> Calling a C function from assembly is just:
> 
> 	bl	c_function
> 
> Returning from an assembly function to a C function is:

Pretty much, unless you want conforming stack frames; but this is too 
complex to describe here -- you need to read one of the documents cited.

> 
> 	mov	pc,lr
> 
> >   Is there such a documentation?
> 
> The APCS is described in "ARM Architecture Reference Manual" by Dave
> Jagger, or in "ARM System Architecture" by Steve Furber.
> 
> For code examples, check out the Linux kernel source, or have a look at
> blob, a bootloader I wrote for StrongARM systems:
> 
>   http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/blob/
> 
> 

Richard.

Re: Documentation

[Erik Mouw]

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On Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 11:45:08AM +0100, Rafael Rodríguez Velilla wrote:
>    I'm looking for documentation on how does gcc manges function
> callings and how it organices the compiled code and data into the
> different sections that it generates.

Hmm, I think it is in the gcc info files, or otherwise it is in the ELF
description (which is available from Intel, IIRC).

>   I'm compiling for ARM with gcc and I'm mixing C code and assembler.

GCC on ARM follows the ARM Procedure Call Standard (APCS), which
basically boils down to:

- First four arguments to a function go into r0 - r3. Extra arguments
  are pushed onto the stack in reverse order (somebody please correct
  me if I'm wrong).
- The return value of the function goes into r0.

Calling a C function from assembly is just:

	bl	c_function

Returning from an assembly function to a C function is:

	mov	pc,lr

>   Is there such a documentation?

The APCS is described in "ARM Architecture Reference Manual" by Dave
Jagger, or in "ARM System Architecture" by Steve Furber.

For code examples, check out the Linux kernel source, or have a look at
blob, a bootloader I wrote for StrongARM systems:

  http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/blob/


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2783635  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email: J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/

Documentation

[Rafael Rodríguez Velilla]

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   I'm looking for documentation on how does gcc manges function
callings and how it organices the compiled code and data into the
different sections that it generates.

  I'm compiling for ARM with gcc and I'm mixing C code and assembler.

  Is there such a documentation?

--
Rafael Rodríguez Velilla        rrv@tid.es
Telefónica I+D          http://www.tid.es
Telf: 34 - 1 - 91 337 4270

Re: Documentation

[Joe Buck]

> I felt I must write to you in order to discuss my dissapointment with
> your cygwin and gcc product.

This is not the cygwin list, so you are complaining to a lot of volunteers
who have nothing to do with the issues you are complaining about.

Please see http://sourceware.cygnus.com/cygwin/ for the correct contacts
for Cygwin.

Documentation

[Gary Fletcher]

Hello

I felt I must write to you in order to discuss my dissapointment with
your cygwin and gcc product.

I am a Unix developer and have recently found a need to develop DLLs in
order to call C functions from Oracle Forms.  I have never produced DLLs
before and so required a simple method of doing this.  I was informed by
a friend, a solid Linux user, about your GCC compiler and Cygwin Bash
environment.  I was obviously delighted with the prospect of development
on a Unix type environment for windows systems.

How wrong I was.

I wrote my C file, (in wordpad as there is STILL no editor available
with cygwin even after all its incarnations), followed the, so called,
user manual as to how to produce the library as a DLL but to no avail.
No matter how I tried I could not produce a DLL, I could not even finish
of the first line of your compilation instructions without failing on
the entry point - where does it go?  In the myprog.c, in the mydll.c?
who can say - your "user manual" certainly cannot.

Also the manual states, and I quote:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Note that we linked with -e _rdll_init@12. This tells the OS what the
DLL's "entry point" is, and this is a special function that coordinates
bringing
the dll to life withing the OS. The minimum function looks like this:

 #include <windows.h>

 int WINAPI
 rdll_init(HANDLE h, DWORD reason, void *foo)
 {
   return 1;
 }

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please tell me where -e _rdll_init@12 is mentioned before in the
documentation?  should it read -e, mydll_init@12?  I just ask because I
left my psychic abilities at home when I read this the other day and so
was unable to access the writers mind in order to discover the true
nature of this passage - from chapter 4:

http://sourceware.cygnus.com/cygwin/cygwin-ug-net/cygwin-ug-net.html

As I am aware User manuals are read by people who have very little idea
of the subject matter, therefore the need to read.  Yours seem to be
written for an expert who has no need for the material in the first
place, therfore no care has been taken to content.

The upshot of this is that myself and my company has decided to use
visual C++ from mircosoft in order that we can produce DLLs.

Please get your house in order otherwise Mr Gates will be able to sleep
easily in his bed.

I look forward to your reply..please use sentences that can be
understood by a Unix programmer.

Yours C++edly

Gary Fletcher
Senior Analyst/Programmer
Telinco Ltd

Re: Documentation

[Erik Mouw]

On Mon, 22 Nov 1999 12:36:00 +0000, AM-Fiber AM-Fiber 1045A wrote:
>  I want to read thru some of Your FAQ's -
> comp.lang.c.FAQ
> comp.lang.c++.FAQ
> comp.std.c++.FAQ
> but i can only find them as html pages.

Try:

  ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-hierarchy/comp/lang/c/
  ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-hierarchy/comp/lang/c++/
  ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-hierarchy/comp/std/c/

> I am only a beginner in C/C++ programming, and so far i haven't even been
> able to locate a list over the contents of the header files in my system
> (sorry, runs a '486/20Mb/66Mhz with Linux RedHat 5.2 and KDE 1.0 - i use
> xwpe as frontend for gcc) - the result is, i keep trying to use some
> DOS-specific headers, and ruin the whole thing. Thank God for Linux, in
> DOS i would probably have to re-install everything... :-)

AFAIK there isn't such a document. The files in /usr/include are just the
standard ANSI header files, Linux/Unix header files, and header files for
other packages you installed (X, GTK+, Qt, GNOME, KDE, etc.).

> Can You suggest anything to read for a programmer novice on a *nix
> system ? In advance, thanks for *ANY* help you can provide

"The C programming language", 2nd edition, by Brian Kernighan and Dennis
Ritchie. This is just about standard ANSI C, no DOS or Unix extentions.
For Unix programming topics, I use "Advanced programming in the UNIX
environment" by W. Richard Stevens.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2785859  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/

Documentation

[AM-Fiber AM-Fiber 1045A]

Sorry to bother you folks, but i've got a problem.

 I want to read thru some of Your FAQ's -
comp.lang.c.FAQ
comp.lang.c++.FAQ
comp.std.c++.FAQ
but i can only find them as html pages.
I have very limited Internet acess(cannot spend time to read online), and
wonder if there exists a downloadable version ?

I am only a beginner in C/C++ programming, and so far i haven't even been able
to locate a list over the contents of the header files in my system (sorry,
runs a '486/20Mb/66Mhz with Linux RedHat 5.2 and KDE 1.0 - i use xwpe as
frontend for gcc) - the result is, i keep trying to use some DOS-specific
headers, and ruin the whole thing. Thank God for Linux, in DOS i would probably
have to re-install everything... :-)

Can You suggest anything to read for a programmer novice on a *nix system ?
In advance, thanks for *ANY* help you can provide

Have a nice day -
Kim 'Pirat' Christensen
1045a@sciatl.dk
Kim_Pirat@mail.tele.dk

Re: Documentation

[Erik Mouw]

On Mon, 22 Nov 1999 12:36:00 +0000, AM-Fiber AM-Fiber 1045A wrote:
>  I want to read thru some of Your FAQ's -
> comp.lang.c.FAQ
> comp.lang.c++.FAQ
> comp.std.c++.FAQ
> but i can only find them as html pages.

Try:

  ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-hierarchy/comp/lang/c/
  ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-hierarchy/comp/lang/c++/
  ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-hierarchy/comp/std/c/

> I am only a beginner in C/C++ programming, and so far i haven't even been
> able to locate a list over the contents of the header files in my system
> (sorry, runs a '486/20Mb/66Mhz with Linux RedHat 5.2 and KDE 1.0 - i use
> xwpe as frontend for gcc) - the result is, i keep trying to use some
> DOS-specific headers, and ruin the whole thing. Thank God for Linux, in
> DOS i would probably have to re-install everything... :-)

AFAIK there isn't such a document. The files in /usr/include are just the
standard ANSI header files, Linux/Unix header files, and header files for
other packages you installed (X, GTK+, Qt, GNOME, KDE, etc.).

> Can You suggest anything to read for a programmer novice on a *nix
> system ? In advance, thanks for *ANY* help you can provide

"The C programming language", 2nd edition, by Brian Kernighan and Dennis
Ritchie. This is just about standard ANSI C, no DOS or Unix extentions.
For Unix programming topics, I use "Advanced programming in the UNIX
environment" by W. Richard Stevens.


Erik

-- 
J.A.K. (Erik) Mouw, Information and Communication Theory Group, Department
of Electrical Engineering, Faculty of Information Technology and Systems,
Delft University of Technology, PO BOX 5031,  2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands
Phone: +31-15-2785859  Fax: +31-15-2781843  Email J.A.K.Mouw@its.tudelft.nl
WWW: http://www-ict.its.tudelft.nl/~erik/

Documentation

[AM-Fiber AM-Fiber 1045A]

Sorry to bother you folks, but i've got a problem.

 I want to read thru some of Your FAQ's -
comp.lang.c.FAQ
comp.lang.c++.FAQ
comp.std.c++.FAQ
but i can only find them as html pages.
I have very limited Internet acess(cannot spend time to read online), and
wonder if there exists a downloadable version ?

I am only a beginner in C/C++ programming, and so far i haven't even been able
to locate a list over the contents of the header files in my system (sorry,
runs a '486/20Mb/66Mhz with Linux RedHat 5.2 and KDE 1.0 - i use xwpe as
frontend for gcc) - the result is, i keep trying to use some DOS-specific
headers, and ruin the whole thing. Thank God for Linux, in DOS i would probably
have to re-install everything... :-)

Can You suggest anything to read for a programmer novice on a *nix system ?
In advance, thanks for *ANY* help you can provide

Have a nice day -
Kim 'Pirat' Christensen
1045a@sciatl.dk
Kim_Pirat@mail.tele.dk