Copyright forms for new contributor?

Copyright forms for new contributor?

[Diego Novillo]

On Mon, 15 Oct 2001, POP Sebastian wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 11:40:14AM -0400, Diego Novillo wrote:
> > tests).  Make sure you get all the copyright things sorted out
> > before contributing the patch to gcc-patches.
> 
> Yet the administrative papers :-), 
> sorry for asking you, but in the http://www.gnu.org/software/gcc/contribute.html
> I see :
> 
> Before we can accept code contributions from you, 
> we need a copyright assignment form filled out and filed with the FSF.
> [...]
> contact us (either via the gcc@gcc.gnu.org list 
> or the GCC maintainer that is taking care of your contributions) 
> to obtain the relevant forms.
> 
> Can you send me by mail or point me on the page that contains these forms...
> The process is signing these papers, and then return them to the 
> GNU foundation, isn't it ?
> 
> 
> Cheers, Sebastian.

I'm not sure who handles these requests.  Could somebody please
help Sebastian getting the copyright forms?

Thanks.  Diego.

Re: Copyright forms for new contributor?

[Gerald Pfeifer]

On Mon, 15 Oct 2001, Diego Novillo wrote:
> I'm not sure who handles these requests.  Could somebody please
> help Sebastian getting the copyright forms?

Nobody officially handles these requests ever since RMS requested that we
remove these forms from our web site. And ever since then, I am wasting my
time handling these requests as nobody else seems to care.

(Sorry, Diego/Sebastian, this is not your fault at all, of course!)


Please find the forms for assigning (possible current and) future
changes quoted below.

Gerald

======== cut ========
Please email the following information to fsf-records@gnu.org, and we
will send you the assignment form for your past and future changes.
Please use your full name as the subject line of the message.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
REQUEST:  SEND FORM FOR PAST AND FUTURE CHANGES

[What is the name of the program or package you're contributing to?]


[Did you copy any files or text written by someone else in these changes?
Even if that material is free software, we need to know about it.]


[Do you have an employer who might have a basis to claim to own
your changes?  Do you attend a school which might make such a claim?]


[For the copyright registration, what country are you a citizen of?]


[What year were you born?]


[Please write your email address here.]


[Please write your postal address here.]





[Which files have you changed so far, and which new files have you written
so far?]

Re: Copyright forms for new contributor?

[Joe Buck]

Gerald writes:

> Nobody officially handles these requests ever since RMS requested that we
> remove these forms from our web site. And ever since then, I am wasting my
> time handling these requests as nobody else seems to care.

The reason for not giving out the forms directly was that people were
sending the wrong forms, making small (but legally significant) changes
to them, etc.  Since the contract has to be on paper, it works best if
the FSF sends out the actual paper; before they switched to this approach,
RMS had to personally check every word of every form, which doesn't work
too well.

Just the same, we need a better procedure.  Perhaps we SC members will
need to take turns being the copyright form liason.  We could set up
a mailing list for the purpose of handling requests from contributors
for the legal documents.

> Please find the forms for assigning (possible current and) future
> changes quoted below.

Actually, what you quote is the form for requesting forms. :-)

Re: Copyright forms for new contributor?

[Florian Weimer]

Joe Buck <jbuck@synopsys.COM> writes:

> Just the same, we need a better procedure.  Perhaps we SC members will
> need to take turns being the copyright form liason.  We could set up
> a mailing list for the purpose of handling requests from contributors
> for the legal documents.

Is this really necessary?  There's already a copyright assignment
clerk at the FSF who does this job.  I've received my papers within
four working days, and some of these are due to the postal services
involved.

I guess this delay is acceptable, and if non-FSF forms are used, we'd
probably face an increase in the time required to process the signed
assignment contract form, so even if we could spare one or two days,
this wouldn't result in a net win in the end.

Re: Copyright forms for new contributor?

[Diego Novillo]

On Tue, 16 Oct 2001, Florian Weimer wrote:

> Joe Buck <jbuck@synopsys.COM> writes:
> 
> > Just the same, we need a better procedure.  Perhaps we SC members will
> > need to take turns being the copyright form liason.  We could set up
> > a mailing list for the purpose of handling requests from contributors
> > for the legal documents.
> 
> Is this really necessary?  There's already a copyright assignment
> clerk at the FSF who does this job.  I've received my papers within
> four working days, and some of these are due to the postal services
> involved.
> 
It seems to me that we should just mention the FSF clerk's
address in the contribute page, then.

Diego.

Re: Copyright forms for new contributor?

[Joe Buck]

I wrote:
> > > Just the same, we need a better procedure.  Perhaps we SC members will
> > > need to take turns being the copyright form liason.  We could set up
> > > a mailing list for the purpose of handling requests from contributors
> > > for the legal documents.

Florian Weimer wrote:
> > Is this really necessary?  There's already a copyright assignment
> > clerk at the FSF who does this job.  I've received my papers within
> > four working days, and some of these are due to the postal services
> > involved.

Diego wrote:
> It seems to me that we should just mention the FSF clerk's
> address in the contribute page, then.

The FSF's copyright clerk is one guy who handles all the papers for all
the FSF's projects, not just GCC.  RMS doesn't want this guy to get
overwhelmed, so what he wanted was for the maintainers of a project to act
as a filter, rather than having everyone directly contact the copyright
clerk.

The current problem with this is that the ball sometimes gets dropped.

Re: Copyright forms for new contributor?

[Joseph S. Myers]

On Tue, 16 Oct 2001, Joe Buck wrote:

> The reason for not giving out the forms directly was that people were
> sending the wrong forms, making small (but legally significant) changes
> to them, etc.  Since the contract has to be on paper, it works best if
> the FSF sends out the actual paper; before they switched to this approach,
> RMS had to personally check every word of every form, which doesn't work
> too well.

Are there any plans to allow digitally signed forms?  I think Ulrich
Drepper wanted to do this for glibc.

> Just the same, we need a better procedure.  Perhaps we SC members will
> need to take turns being the copyright form liason.  We could set up
> a mailing list for the purpose of handling requests from contributors
> for the legal documents.

We also need a better procedure for maintainers to have access to the GNU
copyright.list listing assignments.

How do the assignments to the FSF interact with the presence of
non-FSF-copyright files in the tree?  For example, some of the files in
the gcc/ada directory are copyright FSF, some are copyright Ada Core
Technologies, some are copyright Florida State University.  If people with
FSF assignments contribute to these files, do their contributions become
copyright FSF (rather than any other copyright holder of the files)?

-- 
Joseph S. Myers
jsm28@cam.ac.uk

Re: Copyright forms for new contributor?

[Joe Buck]

Joseph S. Myers writes:

> How do the assignments to the FSF interact with the presence of
> non-FSF-copyright files in the tree?  For example, some of the files in
> the gcc/ada directory are copyright FSF, some are copyright Ada Core
> Technologies, some are copyright Florida State University.  If people with
> FSF assignments contribute to these files, do their contributions become
> copyright FSF (rather than any other copyright holder of the files)?

IANAL, but copyright assignment requires a legal contract between the
parties, so it's not possible for anyone to assign copyright to ACT
or FSU without an explicit contract saying so.

Also, everything that gets linked into the FSF GCC other than system
libraries is supposed to get owned by the FSF unless RMS agrees to an
exception, to help the FSF be able to enforce the GPL.  Is this true
for Ada, or do we have an issue?

Re: Copyright forms for new contributor?

[Gerald Pfeifer]

On Tue, 16 Oct 2001, Joe Buck wrote:
>> Nobody officially handles these requests ever since RMS requested that we
>> remove these forms from our web site. And ever since then, I am wasting my
>> time handling these requests as nobody else seems to care.
> The reason for not giving out the forms directly was that people were
> sending the wrong forms, making small (but legally significant) changes
> to them, etc.  Since the contract has to be on paper, it works best if
> the FSF sends out the actual paper [...]

This definitely makes sense, and I didn't mean to criticize that. However,
it was (and is) absolutely unclear to me, why we cannot publish the forms
used for requesting the paperwork on the web.

> Just the same, we need a better procedure.  Perhaps we SC members will
> need to take turns being the copyright form liason.  We could set up
> a mailing list for the purpose of handling requests from contributors
> for the legal documents.

Either that, or one or two volunteers.

The problem right now is that requests basically remain unanswered, and
I've just been jumping in when I notice that.

Gerald
-- 
Gerald "Jerry" pfeifer@dbai.tuwien.ac.at http://www.dbai.tuwien.ac.at/~pfeifer/

Re: Copyright forms for new contributor?

[Carlo Wood]

On Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 09:21:01PM +0200, Gerald Pfeifer wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Oct 2001, Joe Buck wrote:
> >> Nobody officially handles these requests ever since RMS requested that we
> >> remove these forms from our web site. And ever since then, I am wasting my
> >> time handling these requests as nobody else seems to care.
> > The reason for not giving out the forms directly was that people were
> > sending the wrong forms, making small (but legally significant) changes
> > to them, etc.  Since the contract has to be on paper, it works best if
> > the FSF sends out the actual paper [...]
> 
> This definitely makes sense, and I didn't mean to criticize that. However,
> it was (and is) absolutely unclear to me, why we cannot publish the forms
> used for requesting the paperwork on the web.
> 
> > Just the same, we need a better procedure.  Perhaps we SC members will
> > need to take turns being the copyright form liason.  We could set up
> > a mailing list for the purpose of handling requests from contributors
> > for the legal documents.
> 
> Either that, or one or two volunteers.
> 
> The problem right now is that requests basically remain unanswered, and
> I've just been jumping in when I notice that.

My analysis of this thread is:

The main issue here is that the FSF clerk should be able to automate
his work as much as possible.  He probably also doesn't want to spend
lots of time with explaining to people which papers they need.

In order to remove the need for the clerk to re-read every signed
document he gets, he wants to print the document himself, sign it,
send it to the developer and receive the document back with both
signatures: in that case his own signature tells him the document
is original and does not need re-reading.

In order to remove the need for him to explain to people which papers
they need - he asks volunteers per project to communicate with the
developers and pass to him a clear request for sending a signed paper
to the developer.

The latter could be automated via a webpage for the gcc project imho.

-- 
Carlo Wood <carlo@alinoe.com>

Re: Copyright forms for new contributor?

[Craig Rodrigues]

Hi,

How does this sound?

Create a web based form, where someone could
fill in the values for the copyright assignment
form.  When the user hits the "submit" button,
it generates a PDF file with all of the form's
contents.

The user can then print out the form with a printer,
manually sign the document, and send it by
postal mail to the FSF copyright assignment clerk.

Does this sound tenable?
-- 
Craig Rodrigues        
http://www.gis.net/~craigr    
rodrigc@mediaone.net          

Re: Copyright forms for new contributor?

[Joe Buck]

> How does this sound?
> 
> Create a web based form, where someone could
> fill in the values for the copyright assignment
> form.  When the user hits the "submit" button,
> it generates a PDF file with all of the form's
> contents.
> 
> The user can then print out the form with a printer,
> manually sign the document, and send it by
> postal mail to the FSF copyright assignment clerk.
> 
> Does this sound tenable?

But it's a contract.  This means that both sides, the FSF and the
contributor, have to wind up with a physical piece of paper that is signed
by both sides.  So the current approach (of having the FSF copyright clerk
produce the paper document) works just as well as your suggestion.
And I suspect that he already has an automated approach.

The only problem we're having is in getting the process kicked off
for new contributors.  Once the forms request gets to the FSF it
works pretty well.

Re: Copyright forms for new contributor?

[mike stump]

> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 10:38:29 +0200 (CEST)
> From: Gerald Pfeifer <pfeifer@dbai.tuwien.ac.at>
> To: Diego Novillo <dnovillo@redhat.com>
> cc: <gcc@gcc.gnu.org>, POP Sebastian <s.pop@laposte.net>

> On Mon, 15 Oct 2001, Diego Novillo wrote:
> > I'm not sure who handles these requests.  Could somebody please
> > help Sebastian getting the copyright forms?

> Nobody officially handles these requests ever since RMS requested
> that we remove these forms from our web site. And ever since then, I
> am wasting my time handling these requests as nobody else seems to
> care.

It was a mistake to take what we did off the web site.  Instead, I
think we should point them to the FSF directly on our web site, since
they seem to want the support hassle, and if a response isn't
forthcoming, refer the user to the old web pages.  If any advice given
by the web pages turns out to be wrong, we can update and refine the
documentation to always be right.  I'd go so far as to say, the
reference to the web site should be right under the pointer to the
FSF.

:-(

Re: Copyright forms for new contributor?

[mike stump]

> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 21:54:17 +0100 (BST)
> From: "Joseph S. Myers" <jsm28@cam.ac.uk>
> To: Joe Buck <jbuck@synopsys.COM>
> cc: <gcc@gcc.gnu.org>

> How do the assignments to the FSF interact with the presence of
> non-FSF-copyright files in the tree?  For example, some of the files in
> the gcc/ada directory are copyright FSF, some are copyright Ada Core
> Technologies, some are copyright Florida State University.  If people with
> FSF assignments contribute to these files, do their contributions become
> copyright FSF (rather than any other copyright holder of the files)?

I was surprised to see that the Ada files weren't copyright FSF.
Normally during the import of new code, the code is donated to the
FSF, and the copyright is changed to reflect this fact.  It allows the
FSF to bring a copyright suit against folks that violate copyright,
and it establishes a single clear owner for the work.

Was it intentional that the code not be donated, or have folks just
not gotten around to it yet?

Re: Copyright forms for new contributor?

[dewar]

<<I was surprised to see that the Ada files weren't copyright FSF.

All the files that were originally developed at NYU have the FSF copyright,
reflecting the assignment of copyright (required by the federal contract)
from NYU to the FSF. Some files developed subsequently have an ACT 
copyright , but that simply reflects a temporary situation that existed,
and we will ensure that the copyright notices are updated to reflect FSF
copyright ownership, reflecting the assignment, now in place, from ACT to
the FSF.

The FSU (Florida State University) copyrights are another matter. These
do represent work done by Ted Baker's group at FSU. They cover the 
tasking parts of the runtime, and neither FSU nor Ted wanted to 
assign the copyright to FSF (Ted wanted specifically to have a clear
record of the FSU involvement). I did discuss this with Richard Stallman
at the time, and he indicated that he did not feel it was a problem. In
the event that it does turn out to be a problem, we can simply remove
the tasking runtime from the site, we will still have a working non-tasking
port of GNAT if we do this. 

Robert Dewar

Re: Copyright forms for new contributor?

[Richard Earnshaw]

> 
> The FSU (Florida State University) copyrights are another matter. These
> do represent work done by Ted Baker's group at FSU. They cover the 
> tasking parts of the runtime, and neither FSU nor Ted wanted to 
> assign the copyright to FSF (Ted wanted specifically to have a clear
> record of the FSU involvement). I did discuss this with Richard Stallman
> at the time, and he indicated that he did not feel it was a problem. In
> the event that it does turn out to be a problem, we can simply remove
> the tasking runtime from the site, we will still have a working non-tasking
> port of GNAT if we do this. 

Shouldn't the runtime code be moved out into a separate directory, in the 
same way as other runtime code is (libstdc++, libjava, libobc ...).

Not only would this make it clearer what was part of the compiler and what 
was part of the run-time, but it would also be a step on the road to 
providing multi-lib support.

Re: Copyright forms for new contributor?

[Richard Kenner]

    Shouldn't the runtime code be moved out into a separate directory, in the 
    same way as other runtime code is (libstdc++, libjava, libobc ...).

In theory, yes, and this has been on the "to do" list for quite a
while.  However, it has the potential of making the bootstrap problem
much worse, so it needs to be done very carefully or delayed until
after the GCC 3.1 release.