From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from snark.thyrsus.com (thyrsus.com [71.162.243.5]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 716853858020 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2021 13:49:35 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 sourceware.org 716853858020 Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=thyrsus.com Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=esr@thyrsus.com Received: by snark.thyrsus.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 78BFDF84439; Thu, 15 Apr 2021 09:49:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2021 09:49:07 -0400 From: "Eric S. Raymond" To: Joseph Myers Cc: Nathan Sidwell , gcc@gcc.gnu.org Subject: Re: removing toxic emailers Message-ID: <20210415134907.GA51340@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com References: <20210414131843.GA4138043@thyrsus.com> <20210414142310.98E0833DD0@vlsi1.gnat.com> <20210414152112.GD4138043@thyrsus.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, KAM_DMARC_STATUS, SPF_HELO_PASS, SPF_PASS, TXREP autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on server2.sourceware.org X-BeenThere: gcc@gcc.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Gcc mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2021 13:49:38 -0000 Joseph Myers : > On Wed, 14 Apr 2021, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > > > I'm not judging RMS's behavior (or anyone else's) one way or > > another. I am simply pointing out that there is a Schelling point in > > possible community norms that is well expressed as "you shall judge by > > the code alone". This list is not full of contention from affirming > > that norm, but from some peoples' attempt to repudiate it. > > Since RMS, FSF and GNU are not contributing code to the toolchain and > haven't been for a very long time, the most similar basis to judge them > would seem to be based on their interactions with toolchain development. > I think those interactions generally show that FSF and GNU have been bad > umbrella organizations for the toolchain since at least when the GCC 4.4 > release was delayed waiting for a slow process of developing the GCC > Runtime Library Exception. I do not have standing to argue this point. I will, however, point out that it is a very *different* point from "RMS has iupset some people and should therefore be canceled". -- Eric S. Raymond