Platform...? Java Bytecode!!!!

Platform...? Java Bytecode!!!!

[Luxspes]

Hi!
I awaked this mornig with the following idea, it might sound crazy but 
since microsoft has visual studio net with a lot of languages (C, C++, 
C#, VBasic, Fox) for its ".Net platform"....

I know gcc can compile from "c, c++, objective-c, fortan, ada" to a lot 
of platforms (IA32, IA64, PPC, Alpha, etc, etc)... ¿It would be VERY 
HARD to treat "java virtual machine and java bytecodes" as another 
microprocessor platform? ¿and make a "java bytecode output" from "c, 
c++, objective-c, fortran and ada? (i am specially interested in the c++ 
and objective-c output to java-bytecode)

Any one in this list is aware of a group of developers working to do 
that? I know I am new to this list, and i am surely not a very 
experienced compiler developer ( but I know that gcc has been ported to 
A LOT of platforms... ¿is porting it to java-bytecodes VERY HARD TO DO?
¿are there anyone interested in developing this? because I would be 
REALLY VERY INTERESTED in helping him, or her, or them. (I am a good 
C++, Java and Objective-C programmer)

bye
LUXSPES

Hot to generate Java Bytecodes?

[Luxspes]

Hi! its me again... the crazy guy that wants to generate java-bytecodes 
from gcc...
Can anyone here tell what documentation I should read in order to know 
if how hard is to port to output to an "unsupported" platform?
and... anyone here knows and URL where I can read all the info i need to 
fully understand javabytecodes? any suggestions? ¿any experienced gcc 
developer interested in developing this? I am willing to help...
please, write something... even something like "generating bytecodes 
from gcc its impossible because this, and that, or its very very 
difficult and the reason is..." maybe you find the way to brake my heart 
and make me forget about this crazy idea...
bye
Luxspes

Re: Platform...? Java Bytecode!!!!

[Florian Weimer]

Luxspes <luxspesmex@netscape.net> writes:

> Any one in this list is aware of a group of developers working to do
> that?

You can download a GCC C front end together with some ad-hoc (non-GCC)
backend somewhere.

I'm not sure if a JVM target is useful.  Maybe a different bytecode
target, but the JVM?

Re: Platform...? Java Bytecode!!!!

[Luxspes]

fw@deneb.enyo.de wrote:

> Luxspes <luxspesmex@netscape.net> writes:
> 
> 
>>Any one in this list is aware of a group of developers working to do
>>that?
>>
> 
> You can download a GCC C front end together with some ad-hoc (non-GCC)
> backend somewhere.
> 
> I'm not sure if a JVM target is useful.  Maybe a different bytecode
> target, but the JVM?
> 

Hi!
  why not? think about it.... right now you can only develop for the JVM 
using the java language, and java has a large code base, but c, c++ 
objective-c, fortran and ada are older... a lot older... if someone (why 
not us) builds a gcc to jvm compiler, every JVM (and any platform where 
they run) would instantly gain a tremendous codebase) and I would bring 
"back to life" to languages in risk of dying (or practically already 
death for most of the developers like ada or objective-c) i love 
objective-c but right now, i can only use it with GNUStep (still to 
unstable or in MacOSX (I have a Pentium IV and buying an iMac is beyond 
my budget)). I imagine taking all the objective-c code of Apple's 
Project Builder and conveting it to a java-bytecodes, or all the c++ of 
   QT (Troll Tech) and generating bytecodes with it... i know that it is 
not as simple as that, i need to communicate with the windowing 
subsystem, etc, etc... but it would be a nice step forthward ¿don't you 
think?
And then again, maybe I am just crazy and wrong, but I would like to 
know why this can't be done...
bye
LUXSPES

Re: Platform...? Java Bytecode!!!!

[Diego Novillo]

On Mon, 2002-04-22 at 12:52, Luxspes wrote:

> Any one in this list is aware of a group of developers working to do 
> that? 
>
Try http://www.itee.uq.edu.au/~csmweb/uqbt.html#gcc-jvm


Diego.

Re: Platform...? Java Bytecode!!!!

[Florian Weimer]

Luxspes <luxspesmex@netscape.net> writes:

>> I'm not sure if a JVM target is useful.  Maybe a different bytecode
>> target, but the JVM?

>   why not? think about it.... right now you can only develop for the
> JVM using the java language, and java has a large code base, but c,
> c++ objective-c, fortran and ada are older... a lot older...

For GNAT (the Ada compiler), there is already a different (non-GCC)
backend which produces JVM bytecode.  AFAIK, there isn't much interest
in this compiler, and 

> and I would bring "back to life" to languages in risk of dying (or
> practically already death for most of the developers like ada or
> objective-c)

Well, JGNAT hasn't brought Ada back to life (if it had been dead), so
much for your projections.

You are overestimating the importance of the JVM.  Ubiquitous Java
isn't going to happen.  Never.

> And then again, maybe I am just crazy and wrong, but I would like to
> know why this can't be done...

There are technically disadvantages of the JVM: all objects have to be
allocated on the heap, there is no function pointer support, just to
name two.

Re: Platform...? Java Bytecode!!!!

[Florian Weimer]

Per Bothner <per@bothner.com> writes:

> This has all been discussed and considered many times.  The JVM is
> not a good match for C or C++, because C has a low-level type-unsafe
> memory model.

Not quite correct.  Many C programmers assume that this is the case
(and their code tends to break when chaging platforms or compilers),
and most implementations behave this way, but this isn't really
required by the language definition. ;-)