From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22769 invoked by alias); 8 Dec 2002 21:48:25 -0000 Mailing-List: contact gcc-help@gcc.gnu.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: Sender: gcc-owner@gcc.gnu.org Received: (qmail 22760 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2002 21:48:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fencepost.gnu.org) (199.232.76.164) by sources.redhat.com with SMTP; 8 Dec 2002 21:48:24 -0000 Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18L9Hk-00017y-00 for gcc@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Dec 2002 16:48:24 -0500 Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 18L9D8-0005Iz-00 for gcc@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Dec 2002 16:43:39 -0500 Received: from mail-out2.apple.com ([17.254.0.51]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 18L9D7-0005Ij-00 for gcc@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Dec 2002 16:43:37 -0500 Received: from mailgate1.apple.com (A17-128-100-225.apple.com [17.128.100.225]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id gB8LhXI03362 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 13:43:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from scv1.apple.com (scv1.apple.com) by mailgate1.apple.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.5) with ESMTP id ; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 13:43:09 -0800 Received: from apple.com (vpn-scv-x2-159.apple.com [17.219.193.159]) by scv1.apple.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id gB8LhVs01670; Sun, 8 Dec 2002 13:43:31 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3DF3BCB7.6060102@apple.com> Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 14:09:00 -0000 From: Stan Shebs User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20020826 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tom Lord CC: phil@jaj.com, per@bothner.com, gcc@gnu.org Subject: Re: on reputation and lines and putting things places (Re: gcc branches?) References: <3DEBFF1F.8070603@bothner.com> <87y97752yp.fsf@egil.codesourcery.com> <3DEC018B.4090905@bothner.com> <87vg2b51my.fsf@egil.codesourcery.com> <200212030203.SAA27437@emf.net> <3DF116A7.3040308@bothner.com> <200212070708.XAA02044@emf.net> <20021207174847.A21533@disaster.jaj.com> <200212072340.PAA04425@emf.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.2 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.41 X-Spam-Level: X-SW-Source: 2002-12/txt/msg00429.txt.bz2 Tom Lord wrote: >[...] I am asking [the SC] to first, start to understand >`arch' and the related projects I've been advocating and how those >things relate to the project; second, we can start to figure out >together how to relate this to the volunteer _corporations_. > You'd do better to find an individual or subgroup who will get excited about arch, use/improve it, and advocate it to other GCC developers. IIRC, Larry McVoy got the Linux PPC port folks to start using BitKeeper first, and then they helped sell it to the other kernel developers. It would also help to be more specific about how arch will help *me*. Despite the loose talk about altruism, 99% of GCC developers are really doing it for selfish reasons - money, fame, joie de hack, scratching an itch, whatever. We only cooperate because we can do more working together than separately. Now, almost all of *my* merge difficulties have been because Apple changes to GCC are logically contradictory to FSF code. Does arch include an intelligent merging component that is smart about C and can figure out which pieces of FSF code need to be overridden by Apple code, even if the FSF code changed? If not, then for *me* it doesn't have any advantage over CVS, and there's no point in trying to sell it to me. Technology advocacy is like any other kind of selling; if the customer doesn't buy, it's your failure, not the customer's. Stan