* What happen if... (related GPL & src) @ 2004-12-01 3:20 hgbasm 2004-12-01 3:24 ` Ian Lance Taylor 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: hgbasm @ 2004-12-01 3:20 UTC (permalink / raw) To: gcc I have a question. I will read or desire to read the source code of gcc, but if I for example make some anotations or some work based in my notes, or I get a idea of how to implement X thing, or I think that certain idea is nice, and then I make my own compiler this compiler should need by under GPL? From http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html [quote]*6.* Each time you redistribute the Program (or any work based on the Program), the recipient automatically receives a license from the original licensor to copy, distribute or modify the Program subject to these terms and conditions. You may not impose any further restrictions on the recipients' exercise of the rights granted herein. You are not responsible for enforcing compliance by third parties to this License.[/quote] Altought I consider a little opaque the concept of the "programm" in that licence, but anyway, I like that you answer first this question. Hope you can help me out. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: What happen if... (related GPL & src) 2004-12-01 3:20 What happen if... (related GPL & src) hgbasm @ 2004-12-01 3:24 ` Ian Lance Taylor 2004-12-01 4:02 ` hgbasm 2004-12-01 11:55 ` Robert Dewar 0 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Ian Lance Taylor @ 2004-12-01 3:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: hgbasm; +Cc: gcc hgbasm <hgbasm@yahoo.com.mx> writes: > I will read or desire to read the source code of gcc, but if I for > example make some anotations or some work based in my notes, or I get > a idea of how to implement X thing, or I think that certain idea is > nice, and then I make my own compiler this compiler should need by > under GPL? Believe it or not, this is not really a gcc question. It is a question about the GPL. Try gnu.misc.discuss. My answer is that your compiler is covered by the GPL if it is a derivative work of gcc. When is it a derivative work? Nobody can tell you for sure, as the notion of a derivative work in software is not spelled out by law or by the court system. Taking an idea from gcc and reimplementing it yourself will probably not itself cause your implementation to be a derivative work. Ian ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: What happen if... (related GPL & src) 2004-12-01 3:24 ` Ian Lance Taylor @ 2004-12-01 4:02 ` hgbasm 2004-12-01 11:58 ` Robert Dewar 2004-12-01 11:55 ` Robert Dewar 1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: hgbasm @ 2004-12-01 4:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: gcc Thanks, I will redirect my question to gnu.misc.discuss because I was planning in do some "research" in fact read some source, your ones (GCC) and mesa3d, but after thinking a little about software patents and what is GPL, now I am feared because like now I see they are the same moster (that is my actuall feeling). I will read the codes because I remember one teacher that talk to us about a guy at sun(java) that master itself in poetry instead of computing, when he get out, he say some like "poetry and programming are really more equivalent to what you think, the level of imagination involved, the complexity, etc are both equivalent, the only diference that I watch was that poetry is teached saying students to read the greates novels, poems, etc. Then copy them and then making is own style. But in the side of programming they only show you the sintaxis of languages and make you do things, instead of send to you to read the greatfull pieces of code out there..." But I have taked fear now watching that sixth point, and sure if GPL can claim that if I read your source code or mesa code, and I do some myself, sure I will NEVER read your code. I see now the diference from a book that really dosent restrict on how to use any derivate work (because you acquire the knowledge from the text) and then a derivation (with you own paths, imagination and mind) take the place for apply in any that you whant. wonderfull of you people when your acquisition of knowledge, imagination, freedom of imagination and speech where not targeted be patents, Licenses and pheraphs others things that will come later. Sorry if is not the place to say it, but I whant to answer in this moment, anyway, I will post this and the anterior post that I do to the place that you have sayed me, also I will post here the link about my feeling in that place (if you whant to follow up). Thx anyway ;) , gl & hf. Ian Lance Taylor wrote: >hgbasm <hgbasm@yahoo.com.mx> writes: > > > >>I will read or desire to read the source code of gcc, but if I for >>example make some anotations or some work based in my notes, or I get >>a idea of how to implement X thing, or I think that certain idea is >>nice, and then I make my own compiler this compiler should need by >>under GPL? >> >> > >Believe it or not, this is not really a gcc question. It is a >question about the GPL. Try gnu.misc.discuss. > >My answer is that your compiler is covered by the GPL if it is a >derivative work of gcc. When is it a derivative work? Nobody can >tell you for sure, as the notion of a derivative work in software is >not spelled out by law or by the court system. Taking an idea from >gcc and reimplementing it yourself will probably not itself cause your >implementation to be a derivative work. > >Ian > > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: What happen if... (related GPL & src) 2004-12-01 4:02 ` hgbasm @ 2004-12-01 11:58 ` Robert Dewar 0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Robert Dewar @ 2004-12-01 11:58 UTC (permalink / raw) To: hgbasm; +Cc: gcc hgbasm wrote: > But I have taked fear now watching that sixth point, and sure if GPL can > claim that if I read your source code or mesa code, and I do some > myself, sure I will NEVER read your code. Don't worry, copyright does not protect ideas, it just stops you from copying the code > > I see now the diference from a book that really dosent restrict on how > to use any derivate work (because you acquire the knowledge from the > text) and then a derivation (with you own paths, imagination and mind) > take the place for apply in any that you whant. Software is just the same, copyright stops you copying a book, and the same prevention applies to software. So feel free to read the GCC code and borrow its ideas freely. > > wonderfull of you people when your acquisition of knowledge, > imagination, freedom of imagination and speech where not targeted be > patents, Licenses and pheraphs others things that will come later. Patents are quite another matter (and definitely far off topic!) But you don't have to worry about patents either when reading the gcc code (or at least not much, no one can fully defend against the more egregious effects of patents -- after all if you thought up an idea yourself, you could still be running afoul of patents, but you can never accidentally violate a copyright by independent creation). ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: What happen if... (related GPL & src) 2004-12-01 3:24 ` Ian Lance Taylor 2004-12-01 4:02 ` hgbasm @ 2004-12-01 11:55 ` Robert Dewar 2004-12-01 18:30 ` hgbasm 1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Robert Dewar @ 2004-12-01 11:55 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ian Lance Taylor; +Cc: hgbasm, gcc Ian Lance Taylor wrote: > My answer is that your compiler is covered by the GPL if it is a > derivative work of gcc. When is it a derivative work? Nobody can > tell you for sure, as the notion of a derivative work in software is > not spelled out by law or by the court system. Taking an idea from > gcc and reimplementing it yourself will probably not itself cause your > implementation to be a derivative work. > > Ian I know this is off topic, but Ian answered it, so it seems appropriate to correct some possible misconceptions. First of all, nothing is ever automatically covered by the GPL. There is no such concept as automatic coverage. A license in a case like this is something that is offered by the creator to a potential user. It's really important to emphasize this point, since the idea that your work can be automatically covered by the GPL is one that opponents of free software often erroneously present ("be careful about using Linux, you may automatically lose your IPR to your software" -- I use Linux deliberately in this quote (rather than GNU/Linux), since the opponents of Free Software rarely give GNU credit :-( The actual situation is that if you derive something from a work for which you have a GPL license, then this license specifically allows you to create deriviative works for your own use without limitation. If you want to distribute this deriviative work to others, then you need a license to do this. The GPL serves as such a license, provided that *you* make the decision to distribute the entire deriviative work under the GPL. If you don't want to make your work available under the GPL, then you can either avoid distributing it, or you can see if the author of the original work will provide some other kind of licensing rights. If you distribute the derived work without granting a GPL license, then that's a potential copyright violation, which the original author can pursue, but there is no issue of the work being automatically covered by the GPL. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: What happen if... (related GPL & src) 2004-12-01 11:55 ` Robert Dewar @ 2004-12-01 18:30 ` hgbasm 2004-12-01 18:51 ` Bobby McNulty 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: hgbasm @ 2004-12-01 18:30 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ian Lance Taylor, gcc, Robert Dewar OK, I have understand some things, I guess, but there is some feeling in me that still dosent like GPL I have my reasons (I will not explain them here and need to read more), but anyway, I will read the code, like I understand it dosent have "power" to cover what I whant to do, and that is: Read the code and write a paper called "look inside" I select GCC and mesa3d because languages, 3D and OS are my favourite topics amoung others, but specifically this ones. I dont really know much about this topics (languages and 3D), then I will take your source code like my first book [books dosent restrict you in what you do with the knowledge that you acquire, from what book have you readed first? (curiosity)] (because I dont have much money for buy a book like the red dragon or others that are called "must have"). I will not write a front end, only will analise the ideas/algorithms and the basic structure. When I am ready to make my language it will be completely new, this mean it will not look like GCC or even C or another one, I am targeting other things more related to languages (decidability, readability, comucability, and other logic philoshopic things out there... altough dont know much), pheraphs targetting poetry in the expresion ;), nice. This is because I will not distribute the programm (aka software), I will be in the part of analize the source code, that I think/know is a diferent thing. Only a last favour (very off-topic sure), you have a good resource for learn ADTs/algorithms? Thanks for answer me about not to fear the GPL license. By the way, if you whant to follow I have posted in the place that was recommend before. Thank you all. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: What happen if... (related GPL & src) 2004-12-01 18:30 ` hgbasm @ 2004-12-01 18:51 ` Bobby McNulty 2004-12-01 19:07 ` Joe Buck 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Bobby McNulty @ 2004-12-01 18:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: hgbasm; +Cc: Ian Lance Taylor, gcc, Robert Dewar [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3589 bytes --] hgbasm wrote: > OK, I have understand some things, I guess, but there is some feeling > in me that still dosent like GPL I have my reasons (I will not > explain them here and need to read more), but anyway, I will read the > code, like I understand it dosent have "power" to cover what I whant > to do, and that is: > > Read the code and write a paper called "look inside" I select GCC and > mesa3d because languages, 3D and OS are my favourite topics amoung > others, but specifically this ones. I dont really know much about this > topics (languages and 3D), then I will take your source code like my > first book [books dosent restrict you in what you do with the > knowledge that you acquire, from what book have you readed first? > (curiosity)] (because I dont have much money for buy a book like the > red dragon or others that are called "must have"). > > > I will not write a front end, only will analise the ideas/algorithms > and the basic structure. > > When I am ready to make my language it will be completely new, this > mean it will not look like GCC or even C or another one, I am > targeting other things more related to languages (decidability, > readability, comucability, and other logic philoshopic things out > there... altough dont know much), pheraphs targetting poetry in the > expresion ;), nice. > > This is because I will not distribute the programm (aka software), I > will be in the part of analize the source code, that I think/know is a > diferent thing. > > > > > > Only a last favour (very off-topic sure), you have a good resource for > learn ADTs/algorithms? > > > > Thanks for answer me about not to fear the GPL license. By the way, if > you whant to follow I have posted in the place that was recommend before. > > Thank you all. > Can you write proper english? I have no idea to what you wrote here. GPL means that you can modify the code as you see fit, to increase the capability of that code, in this case, the GCC compiler collection. GPL is copyleft. It is not restrictrive. Can you write an entire novel based on just one book? I think not. I have spent 20 reading science fiction. I use it daily when I'm on the computer. Right now, as I am typing this, I am recored Star Trek: The Next generation with my PVR. It was written in C++, probably GNU C++. What is restrictive in Visual C++. Gnu C++ is alway being updated. Many changes in the software industry are being done right here. This list is for newcomers, like you, and companies like IBM, Electronic Arts, Mandrake, and Redhat. Yes, even Microsoft. Bill gates has a product that is now available for free based on the Gnu tool chain. It integrates the posix layer into Windows. It is called Windows Services for Unix. I'm going to download it. I use it to speed up the system. I have also spent 21 years programming. I started on a Vic-20, and worked my way up to what I have now. GPL is good, not bad. Read it again. You are not interpreting right. It allows others to modify your code, so they can improve it, make it better. GCC 4.0 is coming soon. It took these guys 10 years to go from Version 1 to Verson 3. from 3 to 4, it took them 3 years. Why? Because of the GPL and advances in programming. GCC also consists of Ada, Fortran, Objective C and Java. Sadly, my platform (cygwin) has not been updated or changed in Java. No one is interested in it. Rather that creating a new language, use one of the standards. They are right here. All you have to do is download from CVS or download a tar ball. Simple. And learn to write English. [-- Attachment #2: bobbymcn.vcf --] [-- Type: text/x-vcard, Size: 239 bytes --] begin:vcard fn:Robert McNulty Junior n:McNulty Junior;Robert adr;dom:;;3971 Linda Ann Drive;Millbrook;AL;36054 email;internet:bobbymcn@bellsouth.net tel;home:1-334-285-5490 url:http://www.geocities.coim/bobbymcn2004 version:2.1 end:vcard ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: What happen if... (related GPL & src) 2004-12-01 18:51 ` Bobby McNulty @ 2004-12-01 19:07 ` Joe Buck 2004-12-01 19:16 ` Bobby McNulty 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Joe Buck @ 2004-12-01 19:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bobby McNulty; +Cc: hgbasm, Ian Lance Taylor, gcc, Robert Dewar Please do not debate licensing on this list. That's why gnu.misc.discuss exists. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: What happen if... (related GPL & src) 2004-12-01 19:07 ` Joe Buck @ 2004-12-01 19:16 ` Bobby McNulty 0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Bobby McNulty @ 2004-12-01 19:16 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Joe Buck; +Cc: hgbasm, Ian Lance Taylor, gcc, Robert Dewar [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 192 bytes --] Joe Buck wrote: >Please do not debate licensing on this list. That's why gnu.misc.discuss >exists. > > > > Fine with me. I did not understand anything from that person, bringing that up. [-- Attachment #2: bobbymcn.vcf --] [-- Type: text/x-vcard, Size: 239 bytes --] begin:vcard fn:Robert McNulty Junior n:McNulty Junior;Robert adr;dom:;;3971 Linda Ann Drive;Millbrook;AL;36054 email;internet:bobbymcn@bellsouth.net tel;home:1-334-285-5490 url:http://www.geocities.coim/bobbymcn2004 version:2.1 end:vcard ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: What happen if... (related GPL & src) @ 2004-12-01 21:09 hgbasm 0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: hgbasm @ 2004-12-01 21:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: gcc In gnu.misc.discuss you can follow up, I have moved there. If whant clarification with my unproper english you can send me a email if you whant, no problem with that. Have a nie day or night. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2004-12-01 21:09 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 10+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2004-12-01 3:20 What happen if... (related GPL & src) hgbasm 2004-12-01 3:24 ` Ian Lance Taylor 2004-12-01 4:02 ` hgbasm 2004-12-01 11:58 ` Robert Dewar 2004-12-01 11:55 ` Robert Dewar 2004-12-01 18:30 ` hgbasm 2004-12-01 18:51 ` Bobby McNulty 2004-12-01 19:07 ` Joe Buck 2004-12-01 19:16 ` Bobby McNulty 2004-12-01 21:09 hgbasm
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