From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mx.kolabnow.com (mx.kolabnow.com [95.128.36.41]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 470AF385E036 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2021 15:06:06 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 sourceware.org 470AF385E036 Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=appliantology.com Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=rodgert@appliantology.com Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by ext-mx-out002.mykolab.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBC788BE; Mon, 19 Apr 2021 17:06:03 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kolabnow.com; h= message-id:references:in-reply-to:subject:subject:from:from:date :date:content-type:content-type:mime-version:received:received :received; s=dkim20160331; t=1618844763; x=1620659164; bh=ZdeNxg mfBrT+qqjx39PhCERs70U1VecC+fNaEKBNwSA=; b=p3H34QAax02HDRgrwiWtxs M7ZHIb/3Thk4mKwWKWf4YG0V1xgwxw5Jb9IUNsn4UtToIC0Xem0og09CfJFFhcom HVRHE9BvFtno8dwOzQ9OR2JoUMdRpYZv/URwEqwJJaA2rv++SEmD6xRHSDu7ZzcX w3KeoQrli0Nk3bzk7/XtsEGbO+neycRE3w6oIhlMa18mwrZk9w4h7MAmEeEJdUgn 0lYCICYextPJ3FBaA4qlKLKzP4LSDGMFhQFJxtP2imLMZjV7A5xfMDJrN4YxAzpT 0cRCODPiWejXqXjpHwkNudA4HdBWok/TiAumTNE4J1BbHstnZ2TtdiL+wWS/k8MD Amgxk6+LQRjMGqPXZ/mpN/HjpNkGowIhyALaD4yWXYGY6vcZi4Dgu15qANqDxfJ5 V5PiH0hzwTfVSWEd3UZYcXpNMKcET3LJ4w4tFz5/dpuCbeML0l2YP9BLO996SSnU tUzaOixjmDcgOHNOUrNvL1DU1UNj/914BzKW8ipqyi/NV+OMB6sGh/8dEb2ekGNV 0+6B4FUdQ7AfXy3cMdRcpy0I044VvKMSSevncV5ZU+3WOGHegsYmV1iILYnk1PSR 4klFEsg9edhaH3WkyHxDH4XvqoIoT9sfMX3nmwfhmKr7lhIO/MvDA7HI8oIO4UH9 CC2iX1LRcYvjE1vYFKaD4= X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mykolab.com X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, HTML_MESSAGE, LOTS_OF_MONEY, SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_NONE, TXREP autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from mx.kolabnow.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ext-mx-out002.mykolab.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h5NMsXvvJu5H; Mon, 19 Apr 2021 17:06:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: from int-mx002.mykolab.com (unknown [10.9.13.2]) by ext-mx-out002.mykolab.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0E4325BA; Mon, 19 Apr 2021 17:06:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from int-subm003.mykolab.com (unknown [10.9.37.3]) by int-mx002.mykolab.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 26D2A1B70; Mon, 19 Apr 2021 17:06:01 +0200 (CEST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2021 08:06:00 -0700 From: Thomas Rodgers To: Jonathan Wakely Cc: Frosku , Jonathan Wakely via Gcc Subject: Re: removing toxic emailers In-Reply-To: References: <20210415134907.GA51340@thyrsus.com> <96db05d78cb1f829d0b3ce3026ac15a335fffd41.camel@redhat.com> <3e0b8d933eef3eb7f12e86bf6bc92dec6965065d.camel@silogroup.org> <40f0e05b-3156-a649-b636-c90b8b8e0f8@pfeifer.com> <4A7DE074-9600-4513-A05C-566926D447BE@tesio.it> <535f1dcf-2258-c817-cf72-5c49dc9e5823@hesbynett.no> <20210418131052.GB320802@thyrsus.com> <92c014fc39022ea03c6c801bb76ab39674e8a6fb.camel@redhat.com> Message-ID: <542eb0298a485953602e0f28f94b9f03@appliantology.com> X-Sender: rodgert@appliantology.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on server2.sourceware.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: gcc@gcc.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Gcc mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2021 15:06:08 -0000 On 2021-04-18 23:29, Jonathan Wakely via Gcc wrote: > On Mon, 19 Apr 2021, 02:41 Frosku, wrote: > > On Sun Apr 18, 2021 at 9:22 PM BST, Alexandre Oliva via Gcc wrote: > That's why it's best to dissent politely, lest they incorrectly > conclude > their opinions are consensual, or majoritary, just because they've > driven dissenters into silence. > The problem is, Alex, that the trolls mostly haven't been on the > dissenting > side. All of the childish namecalling -- "jerks", "trolls", "crazies" > -- > and the insinuations that our voices aren't worth listening to because > we > don't get paid $250,000 a year by Google to contribute to GCC all day > are > coming from the pro-forking side. Google doesn't pay anybody to work on GCC all day. You know nothing about GCC or the "problems" you're complaining about. Your input to this conversation is not constructive. > Once upon a time, free software developers understood that users' > opinions > were as valid as contributor's opinions. That depends on the user. Once upon a time, free software's developers *were* it's primary users, i.e. they built the technology for themselves and made it freely available in the hope that it would be useful to others. It's also the case that the vast majority of GCC *current* users are not here making proclamations about what GCC's project governance should be. Rather it's a vocal and vanishingly small minority, who have contributed nothing of value, code or insights, and continue to vocally do so. Many of GCC's users are, however, watching in horror at the absolutely amateurish way in which this is playing out and wondering if their long term commitment should be to using this piece of software to build their products/businesses.