From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from cc-smtpout2.netcologne.de (cc-smtpout2.netcologne.de [IPv6:2001:4dd0:100:1062:25:2:0:2]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1FF4839540E3 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2021 19:48:55 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 sourceware.org 1FF4839540E3 Received: from cc-smtpin2.netcologne.de (cc-smtpin2.netcologne.de [89.1.8.202]) by cc-smtpout2.netcologne.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E25B712141; Thu, 15 Apr 2021 21:48:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cc-smtpin2.netcologne.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id DECE211DC1; Thu, 15 Apr 2021 21:48:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [2a0a:a540:202e:0:7285:c2ff:fe6c:992d] (helo=cc-smtpin2.netcologne.de) by localhost with ESMTP (eXpurgate 4.19.0) (envelope-from ) id 607898a4-0254-7f0000012729-7f000001ab98-1 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2021 21:48:52 +0200 Received: from [IPv6:2a0a:a540:202e:0:7285:c2ff:fe6c:992d] (2a0a-a540-202e-0-7285-c2ff-fe6c-992d.ipv6dyn.netcologne.de [IPv6:2a0a:a540:202e:0:7285:c2ff:fe6c:992d]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by cc-smtpin2.netcologne.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Thu, 15 Apr 2021 21:48:50 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Gcc as callable libraries (was: removing toxic emailers) To: David Malcolm , gcc mailing list Cc: GCC Development References: <20210414131843.GA4138043@thyrsus.com> <20210414142310.98E0833DD0@vlsi1.gnat.com> <20210414152112.GD4138043@thyrsus.com> <20210415134907.GA51340@thyrsus.com> <96db05d78cb1f829d0b3ce3026ac15a335fffd41.camel@redhat.com> From: Thomas Koenig Message-ID: <8295aff7-7afb-bb9d-a102-6b106664bbf8@netcologne.de> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2021 21:48:50 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, DKIM_VALID_EF, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW, SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS, TXREP autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on server2.sourceware.org X-BeenThere: gcc@gcc.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Gcc mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2021 19:48:57 -0000 David, for some reason or other, I did not get your mail, so I will just reply copying in from the archive. First, thanks for injecting some sanity into the discussion. I will not discuss RMS' personal shortcomings or the lack of them. In today's toxic political climate, such allegations are often made up and weaponized without an effective defense for the alleged wrongdoer. I don't know the truth of the matter, and I make a point of not finding out. > In many ways the last 8 years of my career have been > an attempt to get gcc to respond to the appearance of LLVM/clang (I've > added JIT-compilation, improved diagnostics, and I'm implementing a > static analysis pass) And this is highly welcome, and has made gcc (including gfortran) a much better compiler. I well remember how you implemented the much better colored error messages that gfortran has now. > Perhaps a pronouncement like: "try to make everything be consumable as > libraries with APIs, as well as as standalone binaries" might have > helped (and still could; can we do that please?) That makes perfect sense, as LLVM shows, and is something that the steering committee could decide for the project (or rather, it could issue a pronouncement that this will not be opposed if some volunteer does it). I think this could be as close to an unanimous decision as there can be among such a diverse community as the gcc developers. If the FSF takes umbrage at this, the ball is in their court.