From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [IPv6:2001:470:142:3::e]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 817163858414 for ; Thu, 11 May 2023 06:23:10 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.4.2 sourceware.org 817163858414 Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=gnu.org Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=gnu.org DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=52QxylqUBPKjlVRLAbMKpRBLgvtI1ffK1ye9XHeto0M=; b=qLq1obvQPtu2 169TIi3NNKlcVq3So9Lrz+xPyDf3sjN0owliNPCJKE0ikR0mi9pEnYVTnqHwu49Wn2bviYZzBnccz /fZ3ZLQjP6QzO5UG0HiFm7BsZHqz+1CpnZ/xSOlkwIHX9aGnhtpC8OJZzmlG2cZmJLzO9D5/VJrmq 2aHNlimbs6STyYY35bWJNRFoxd6zfyxqizcNXkDAkKDkUgdd2+ur3i+cU+z/GgSYrboUOh3s4L5wj NmZpVSZ2ASPnC+X5yT5aLXPh5h92HUMa1b1hag5Tpx7fU0AqNzqu2hcJxsSaC9ymeJWWZD2aIOq28 SClhAUBKnjrYYFbOLpYDLA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pwzhl-0004Hk-1F; Thu, 11 May 2023 02:23:10 -0400 Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 09:24:16 +0300 Message-Id: <83zg6b5qsv.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Eli Schwartz Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, gcc@gcc.gnu.org In-Reply-To: <67e65b41-5400-d1c2-9f43-f94d0ea7da9b@gmail.com> (message from Eli Schwartz via Gcc on Thu, 11 May 2023 00:46:23 -0400) Subject: Re: More C type errors by default for GCC 14 References: <87mt2behdl.fsf@yahoo.com> <57238276-5966-98d6-d5f0-f5451013ed17@gmail.com> <871qjned25.fsf@yahoo.com> <67e65b41-5400-d1c2-9f43-f94d0ea7da9b@gmail.com> X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_05,DKIMWL_WL_HIGH,DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,KAM_NUMSUBJECT,RCVD_IN_BARRACUDACENTRAL,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,TXREP,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.6 (2021-04-09) on server2.sourceware.org List-Id: > Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 00:46:23 -0400 > Cc: gcc@gcc.gnu.org > From: Eli Schwartz via Gcc > > > And remember that `-traditional' DID exist for a certain amount of time. > > Then it was removed. So in addition to annoying a lot of people, what > > guarantees that -Wno-implicit will not be removed in the future, after > > the proposed changes are made? > > > What guarantees of the future do you have for anything? > > What guarantees do you have that a meteor won't hit Earth and wipe out > all human life in a great catastrophe? > > What guarantees do you have that GCC will still be run by the current > maintainers? > > What guarantees do you have that GCC will still be maintained at all? > > What guarantees do you have that GCC won't decide next year that they > are deleting all support for std > c89, making -traditional the default, > and becoming a historical recreation society? > > What guarantees do you have that GCC won't decide next year that they > are deleting all support for std < c23, mandating that everyone upgrade > to the very latest std that isn't even fully implemented today? > > What guarantees do you have that reality exists as you think of it? > Maybe you are a pink elephant and computers are a figment of your > imagination. Please be serious, and please don't mock your opponents. This is a serious discussion of a serious subject, not a Twitter post. Back to the subject: the guarantees I would personally like to have is that the current GCC development team sees backward compatibility as an important goal, and will try not to break old programs without very good technical reasons. At least in Emacs development, that is the consideration that is very high on our priority list when making development decisions. It would be nice if GCC (and any other GNU project, for that matter) would do the same, because being able to upgrade important tools and packages without fear is something users value very much. Take it from someone who uses GCC on various platforms since version 1.40.