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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 27ea2665ec9625a4a2b6792487dd5bec; Mon, 15 May 2023 01:05:12 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu To: Arsen =?utf-8?Q?Arsenovi=C4=87?= Cc: Eli Schwartz , Gabriel Ravier , Jonathan Wakely , Eli Zaretskii , gcc@gcc.gnu.org Subject: Re: More C type errors by default for GCC 14 In-Reply-To: <86fs7zw05h.fsf@aarsen.me> ("Arsen =?utf-8?Q?Arsenovi=C4=87?= =?utf-8?Q?=22's?= message of "Sun, 14 May 2023 14:22:31 +0200") References: <87mt2behdl.fsf@yahoo.com> <57238276-5966-98d6-d5f0-f5451013ed17@gmail.com> <871qjned25.fsf@yahoo.com> <67e65b41-5400-d1c2-9f43-f94d0ea7da9b@gmail.com> <87wn1fcrw4.fsf@yahoo.com> <4d2af697-2f28-9e17-6b35-3a4ba19313d2@gmail.com> <87mt2ab8te.fsf@yahoo.com> <83bkiq3umf.fsf@gnu.org> <87sfc18z66.fsf@yahoo.com> <1cb56b16-1ee0-e233-30f2-464c30d19fd4@gmail.com> <87y1lt6ouy.fsf@yahoo.com> <4ea0b0de-c1f6-0708-eb57-69b4b0e458fc@gmail.com> <87353z7a7o.fsf@yahoo.com> <4b378f94-340d-de5b-c523-e7a5a603c11b@gmail.com> <87ttwf5dq7.fsf@yahoo.com> <86fs7zw05h.fsf@aarsen.me> Date: Mon, 15 May 2023 09:05:06 +0800 Message-ID: <87ilcu5rr1.fsf@yahoo.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.21471 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,FREEMAIL_FROM,KAM_NUMSUBJECT,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,TXREP,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.6 (2021-04-09) on server2.sourceware.org List-Id: Arsen Arsenovi=C4=87 writes: > Any development style making documentation a source of truth matches > this principle. This does not refer to ISO specifications specifically, > though, normally, unless the standard disagrees with reality, as > implicit-... did many years ago, ISO decisions are taken seriously. We're not talking about the C Standard here. Eli S. is claiming that gcc.info is the source of truth for the behavior of GCC, and whenever some behavior of GCC is not documented (or contradicts the documentation), GCC should be fixed to behave as its documentation specifies. > It is, after this proposal is accepted, still up to the user to decide. > The only difference is that the default would be friendlier to new code > and users and most code that exists today, rather than to very old code > and incorrect code. That's not correct. It would be as friendly to new code as it is now -- but old (and very likely still correct) code would be put at a disadvantage. > Additionally, there isn't enough information to compile. The compiler > makes up new information to fill in the gaps. According to a specific formula that all C programmers (at least, those who write such code) know. > If that definition accepted, most error recovery should be turned into > valid code paths that participate as GNU extensions, for instance, > there's no reason that: > > int f (int x) { x +=3D 10 return x + 123 } > > shouldn't compile, as the compiler knows where to insert semicolons to > make it (probably) work. I'd say that extension is more acceptable than > the ones being proposed into turning into errors by default, since it > isn't very ambiguous, unlike an implicit function declaration or such. Unfortunately, this has never worked in any C compiler, and is very ambiguous. Implicit int and function declarations have been included in every ANSI and K&R C compiler, and then some more after that, so what the compiler should do is very precisely specified and known. > It has been 25 years since the addition of -fpermissive to G++. I'm > optimistic. But -fpermissive is considered ``useful'' by the many loud people who find it necessary to compile C as C++.