From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qv1-xf34.google.com (mail-qv1-xf34.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f34]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 795FE3858028 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 23:09:43 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 sourceware.org 795FE3858028 Received: by mail-qv1-xf34.google.com with SMTP id bs7so10297804qvb.12 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 16:09:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=lxCYCAClj38yIlZauyYfQ0o12pVkJ+5Pdr8qF6RIjo4=; b=gSCbgtv5aFKzXqqPlBe/ZH9XeSdn+d047YC5MZVGFqWd8hsX+DrxABceWChVZXeHBP K5NPQbKMoZ7IdFHoF8UeR533hxlbykhxBLr8MLLRkfEKYqB4/e00HiLwg3WDnhuqNVoM P1oGMmj533GDG9HF20P+i/ezmbtm/VZc6jo+vJAdpVA37Vnhk81rDP2TYmGt/Zm5n2OP UimkZ0Vn1PI88ClZRLx6gxMfSkdc4xoBb9VMLIBpB2nh3wJF8g1310ntxAzdxCiHZV/I Iqn399g8zLRhNXHMBsGNRLtRDsVsJ8bi8GY7l7Zph9oWY9gV7+ZwGl5JHuP4D+Qsuq0X Q+VQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530inlZDSXkbgBWg/IroyVUjaYTT7uAQQUUEJKyeGwkcXr4QD7Ld 0JyhggvaQy2q5XLc0xkp5ODx8oNyhNnoKYRiGEo9+q9yCTDdVw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzHnIBqcEyeGU15cToj8n86WcKPAfdBGRnK9kYCDHroTV39VMMBb9eTY3HZJNAR/Otem9E1hcD4uiK3bAsdwLw= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:fd62:: with SMTP id k2mr504205qvs.51.1618441782946; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 16:09:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Adrian Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2021 00:09:31 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: removing toxic emailers To: gcc@gcc.gnu.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_05, DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, DKIM_VALID_EF, FREEMAIL_FROM, HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS, TXREP autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on server2.sourceware.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: gcc@gcc.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Gcc mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2021 23:09:45 -0000 Eric S. Raymond : > there is actually a value conflict between being "welcoming" in that sense and the actual purpose of this list, which is to ship code. Speaking as a "high functioning autist", I'm aware of the difficulties that some of us have with social interactions - and also that many of us construct a persona or multiple personae to interact with others, a phenomenon known as "masking". I understand why "Asshole" can function as a viable mask for many people, because there are cultures where it's tolerated, particularly in remote-working groups like mailing lists, where physical altercations are unlikely and no-one has to confront the results of their interactions with others if they don't want to. It doesn't necessarily follow that "smart" == "asshole" though. I disagree fundamentally that the assessment that the code contributions of such people are necessarily more positive than those of the people they drive away - *especially* people like me, another high-functioning autist, because our difficulty with social interaction often includes a phenomenon called RSD - Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria - characterised by a disproportionately overwhelming response to criticism amongst other things. I've been coding for the better part of 4 decades and generally have confidence in my ability, and still balk at participating in Free and OSS projects where the lead members have an abrasive and confrontational style. I learned to avoid these people (well, maybe the less smart people whose mask they are copying) at school. Note - I'm not talking about constructive criticism, I'm specifically talking about being unnecessarily unpleasant. In contrast I still remember (and talk about) experiences contributing to projects where the leads have been nothing but friendly and helpful. It's not just about "the code alone" of one or a few talented "autist" persons. These projects are intrinsically about community - that's baked into the license. No-one really "codes alone". The code you never see because people don't want to join in _could_ be just as great - but if presenting as assholes has always been and always will be tolerated, maybe you'll never see it. Adrian Wilkins