From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ua1-x92f.google.com (mail-ua1-x92f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::92f]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 07DA73858018 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2021 23:56:33 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 sourceware.org 07DA73858018 Received: by mail-ua1-x92f.google.com with SMTP id h34so5577372uah.5 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2021 16:56:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=IY8GphSc4S4x5AwqTEZOJ8XwHSfLu9HuvY5JpXG1uLA=; b=Omb7HwZk7gitYPOnOew2kO7E9CvTtfe82KQn/1kkMtazVJ8+ZU8fKAPhP9pXhDIwzP orBDRghHb3IkkMjzezvw3eyHUDbjYu/Bbyqhz+XwDfoGY000SsQW4f91zY8PLGUYk+Pq JOgdaxU9dZBODzaqtgMiNU+vJY0In2b2rUswY3ZZqicLxsHdSjgeKTbS+pZVrpkZt3T9 rmF4CUep7bBVf30dI53uiz3CCb0z4OPmW3scjUP3Nft25uK0/W1rZ3kzGrfj4HNVNHv3 +T5pf6NdDKoKXo4fHmnNr7da0NnggzyaiwlBCVQSW1vF4zYGwTQiGcC018cmxVF6yr5V ONXg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5326EmimVgOMbe+DO54HSOU8imLZwScENn7ZjaqWqlthCbdcrfW7 /GGRCiSk8P3U5oQcRbGdO3pEdj1qI1Xc9s3ro+c= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw9F0zF0+f5MvqNHfyQKoQz66DnkgtP3thzbicW3NEi3TbSTts56xVivEpui3eJNVKkDOBa/eda2zh6YKZ9cls= X-Received: by 2002:a9f:262b:: with SMTP id 40mr170868uag.20.1617148592417; Tue, 30 Mar 2021 16:56:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20210330151656.00007e20@tesio.it> In-Reply-To: From: Andrew Sutton Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 19:56:21 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Remove RMS from the GCC Steering Committee To: Christopher Dimech Cc: Joseph Myers , GCC Development , Nathan Sidwell X-Spam-Status: No, score=4.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, BUSINESS_OWNER_BODY, DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, DKIM_VALID_EF, FREEMAIL_FROM, HTML_MESSAGE, KAM_SHORT, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, SEXUAL_BODY, SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS, TXREP autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Level: **** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on server2.sourceware.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: gcc@gcc.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Gcc mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 23:56:35 -0000 Are you still responding to me? Your response reads like a thinly veiled threat. Angry friends on a jihad? Sounds serious. On Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 7:14 PM Christopher Dimech wrote: > > I have some friends in this movement who have been getting rather angry > recently. There is a lot of anger in the world, > in fact, in politics. Our political movement is not the only one > suffering from anger at the moment. But some of my angry > friends, have come to the conclusion that they=E2=80=99re on a jihad for = free > software. > > That way won=E2=80=99t work. If a campaign of coercive compliance is carr= ied just > a moment too far, willingness to use free > software among rational people will decline to a point which is dangerous > to freedom. > > --------------------- > Christopher Dimech > General Administrator - Naiad Informatics - GNU Project (Geocomputation) > - Geophysical Simulation > - Geological Subsurface Mapping > - Disaster Preparedness and Mitigation > - Natural Resource Exploration and Production > - Free Software Advocacy > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 9:55 AM > *From:* "Andrew Sutton" > *To:* "Christopher Dimech" > *Cc:* "Joseph Myers" , "GCC Development" < > gcc@gcc.gnu.org>, "Nathan Sidwell" > *Subject:* Re: Remove RMS from the GCC Steering Committee > Sorry for the confusion, but was this response directed to me? It seems > entirely unrelated to what I wrote. > > On Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 5:35 PM Christopher Dimech wrote: > >> >> Seriously. When you want something to happen within society, it is >> complex. Just >> because you want to push something - an ideology - you chant about it >> every day, >> does not mean things will go your way. >> >> Perhaps you can start donating money to Antifa! >> >> >> >> >> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 9:09 AM >> *From:* "Andrew Sutton" >> *To:* "Christopher Dimech" >> *Cc:* "Joseph Myers" , "GCC Development" < >> gcc@gcc.gnu.org>, "Nathan Sidwell" >> *Subject:* Re: Remove RMS from the GCC Steering Committee >> I guess I'll add my two cents. It seems everyone else is... >> >> I'm not a maintainer or frequent contributor, but I did implement >> concepts for C++, and I'd like to continue contributing, time permitting= . >> My company (as in, I own it) also does some work on GCC, implementing ne= w >> and experimental features like contracts, which we intend to upstream, >> pending review. Some modules-related stuff too (I hope). >> >> Maybe my response is a little different because I'm writing as a busines= s >> owner and not a contributor. >> >> >> >> I understand that RMS is not actually on the steering committee and not >> an active contributor, and the SC web page should be updated to reflect >> that if it hasn't already. >> >> I agree with Nathan. >> >> The SC needs to be forward-looking --- you can't steer effectively if >> you're always looking in the rear-view mirror. My understanding is that = GCC >> put RMS behind it a long time ago. And for the better. >> >> Part of the SC's job is (or should be) considering recruitment and >> retention for this community, including corporate participation. This id= ea >> that we have to somehow revere a person who has managed to make himself >> controversial for reasons entirely unrelated to his ideology on free >> software actively works against both of those goals. >> >> Undeniably so. If RMS were actually in the SC, I would have serious >> reservations about committing my employees time to this community. His >> documented behavior readily violates my company's code of conduct. At be= st, >> I'd risk burn out employees in a toxic environment. At worst, I could en= d >> up as a defendant in a sexual harassment case. And this 100% not hyperbo= le. >> >> (Thanks to everyone who makes GCC a good community to participate in.) >> >> I think it's perfectly reasonable for GCC to acknowledge RMS' past >> contributions, both ideological and code-wise, but it's time to move on. >> Nothing good comes from lionizing a man who purportedly asked teenage gi= rls >> to eat candy out of his hand. >> >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 2:14 PM Christopher Dimech via Gcc >> wrote: >> >>> >>> > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 5:45 AM >>> > From: "Joseph Myers" >>> > To: "JeanHeyd Meneide" >>> > Cc: "GCC Development" , "Nathan Sidwell" < >>> nathan@acm.org> >>> > Subject: Re: Remove RMS from the GCC Steering Committee >>> > >>> > On Tue, 30 Mar 2021, JeanHeyd Meneide via Gcc wrote: >>> > >>> > > So, it boils down to this for me: either GCC is a place where >>> all >>> > > contributions are welcome, or GCC is a place of hypocrisy, where >>> > > contributions are welcome except when Stallman (or someone else in = a >>> > > position of power) lobbies a non-technical, non-factual argument >>> > > against you and jumps from their high tower to slam down on >>> > > rank-and-file contributors and participants. You cannot have it bot= h >>> > > ways. >>> > >>> > All contributions are welcome. One of the key functions of the SC is >>> > actually saying no to RMS. >>> > >>> > Central FSF or GNU project infrastructure is not used in developing >>> GCC; >>> > gcc.gnu.org is entirely independent of central FSF or GNU >>> infrastructure >>> > such as savannah. So RMS has no control over policies applied to GCC >>> > mailing lists, and any influence he might apply to the moderation of >>> lists >>> > hosted on lists.gnu.org does not apply here. (Although GCC releases >>> are >>> > uploaded to ftp.gnu.org, which is central GNU infrastructure, they ar= e >>> > also available at https://gcc.gnu.org/pub/gcc/releases/ .) He has an >>> > ordinary restricted user account on gcc.gnu.org giving the same >>> access to >>> > push commits as most committers; he does not have shell or >>> administrative >>> > access. >>> >>> People are inflating the power or control he actually has. I have to s= ay >>> that at no time has Stallman dictated on any of my work. Unlike the >>> animosity >>> that has been demonstrated by Ludovic Court=C3=A8s in October 2019, by = sending >>> a message disguised to look like an official Gnu Directive to Gnu >>> Maintainers. >>> A fashionable tool for excommunicating those he find problematic due to >>> their >>> pesky different points of view. >>> >>> > -- >>> > Joseph S. Myers >>> > joseph@codesourcery.com >>> > >> >>