From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wr1-x435.google.com (mail-wr1-x435.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::435]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 503783947411 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 16:09:20 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 sourceware.org 503783947411 Received: by mail-wr1-x435.google.com with SMTP id b9so2747478wrs.1 for ; Thu, 08 Apr 2021 09:09:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=fUYYnmfCleKkZuLDXxzRmLUo1Bo4LsFBQMseneLwIwk=; b=mkBfoU7LcDRLLNok4j2tYvgRcUANOE+yAylMpP2SPMjYifAKuADYEP5NmBY+Q+HSqf 7yWcX6L9p52xDdNGWH3B+BTtJoGOen39laGoFqnDLvt7O9vP4zQFyA+B3xKSfnOYGTbG 1kqzlOh+7d3wYBHgOWvp69ZkEE+YP5cko/LyxOUycioFFw31J/AU1yWlujDmB1Q1jBI6 M3qmhdpCc3dvnLG4JyNbgQMvFezi0E1G/rJsQXlipw3XOiO10WtlW0Etvno3zFrhqkeX 8QeD4HTUfZ4dHRrThPZxy22pGuUozW+ymJQvCSRBWlLdDPotMJbgpy1+EaYhopEvZCI8 9Z5w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533XN9fBEyQrB/yc5fx3DijYKUqxsyU2qcfq88vli04fdLbxLjCQ OxKRZu3NluCqdF88osbHDLqDWFEKcrnM8y6YZX8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx7ppDV0BiFKC89aUAJLGdPK5uQc6hpzdz37TWV3fxp0D3ebGGUtd0lKzpAFXdysI6KmW5TnqspG0GPFS+IPn4= X-Received: by 2002:adf:c452:: with SMTP id a18mr12100736wrg.378.1617898159331; Thu, 08 Apr 2021 09:09:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <2cbc9ee0-31bf-f933-758f-8e5ebe8eab0e@polymtl.ca> <3d21f80d-6747-23fc-ab2c-3ebb53d5dd45@polymtl.ca> <7EFD1A72-F0EB-494E-92BF-92DE932B1CCE@gmail.com> <8e6f1f9b-13cf-c82c-a67b-b35cde4e2e31@polymtl.ca> <6ee7a0a1-1c2f-97a5-b169-e01ea4439f17@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <6ee7a0a1-1c2f-97a5-b169-e01ea4439f17@gmail.com> From: David Edelsohn Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2021 12:09:07 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Default debug format for AVR To: Jeff Law Cc: Simon Marchi , Richard Biener , GCC Development Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, DKIM_VALID_EF, FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS, TXREP autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on server2.sourceware.org X-BeenThere: gcc@gcc.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Gcc mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2021 16:09:21 -0000 On Thu, Apr 8, 2021 at 10:41 AM Jeff Law wrote: > > On 4/8/2021 8:06 AM, Simon Marchi via Gcc wrote: > > On 2021-04-08 9:11 a.m., David Edelsohn wrote: > >>>> AIX continues to use and support STABS, although it is transitioning > >>>> to DWARF. If this is intended as a general statement about removal of > >>>> STABS support in GCC, > >>> Yes, it is. > >>> > >>> Richard. > >> Richard, > >> > >> It is inappropriate to unilaterally make this decision without > >> discussion with all affected ports and maintainers, without warning, > >> and without deprecation. I request that you rescind this decision. > >> > >> It is somewhat ironic to act as a dictator when we are having a > >> discussion about dictatorial behavior in GCC leadership. > > I don't really want to start such a debate about GCC politics. If stabs > > is not ready to be deleted, that's fine. But it would be good to go > > through all targets for which it is the default (like avr), and see if > > they are ready to be switched to DWARF. That's a baby step towards > > eventually deleting it. > > Agreed. I'd bet AIX is the outlier here and that most, if not all, > other ports that may currently be stabs-by-default can switch to > dwarf-by-default with no significant fallout. So we fix everything we > can while we wait for AIX to move forward. I am not requesting a continuation of support for STABS to be obstinate. AIX has some support for DWARF, but STABS continues to be the primary debug format on AIX. Binutils does not fully function on AIX and the AIX native tools support for DWARF is incomplete. Also, AIX uses XCOFF file format, not ELF, so DWARF syntax needs to be adapted and all of the tools need to agree on the way that AIX symbols are represented in DWARF. IBM is adding support for AIX to LLVM and LLVM does not support STABS debugging, which has both exposed problems and is motivating work to resolve the gaps, but the additional features and fixes require time to implement and deploy. I am eager to transition to DWARF on AIX, but I continue to ask that the support not be removed until DWARF can be used as a complete substitute on AIX. I hope that full support for DWARF in AIX will be completed in 2022 and removal of GCC support for STABS can be targeted for GCC 13, not GCC 12. Thanks, David