From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wm1-x32e.google.com (mail-wm1-x32e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32e]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3674138515DD for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 12:59:54 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 sourceware.org 3674138515DD Received: by mail-wm1-x32e.google.com with SMTP id d191so10118167wmd.2 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 05:59:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=6FztOtOBGJdLEJouBRYM2W2LUEEQHY/XLTg3oiVWaUA=; b=NgGhmyGNha9eK7rKvY7U6rft7lqldo+VQLfnFHvGgbHxKIjPf2a1l0xQmcpjvn/bU1 UZg0SlbNQEc8oWMiwOlOrGPkg9IyLNoE57dlBd1Ua1Yf6wQ2VwnHo7Bn30PyiduCserx 175nNjml5njOWwAZWB7yZXPOWhs3MzULCHc8EfX4Y4zlzfFNuJCipD1sVv3NX+hLCmCK 9Yw/UoAX1IfVYN6OEo/6ew0JW9iCFVcG8mFI1I07lBNmHxBdKlt2Gy4YriNHs2pFZp/8 bktnEvsNJ4cOJTmNeBeXpIRtnyXJcyz2u8ZXxpr5LkWIN2+NIjgyrr7YLBoaewit3dE8 DuRA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5323ToLHCbj8WrZ4k7FPXTt0iBe7Qck5Tql/OcIFp3wt4mXX2mSu hfZUp6RUFZl5qBOWtmynWzqEFk+ZEVbpMqOpq8M= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzqSkJfBAchwGAdSfgqSkVuVtX4yKTDPPdjeT26qaY2FTDSrVpZm6cTJe+WvtRzK6qvBYAc/C/chhYNltuLvLU= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:2017:: with SMTP id g23mr3048769wmg.126.1617195593355; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 05:59:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20210330151656.00007e20@tesio.it> <20210330232849.00001697@tesio.it> <20210331113417.GU2685@wildebeest.org> In-Reply-To: From: David Edelsohn Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 08:59:41 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Remove RMS from the GCC Steering Committee To: Richard Biener Cc: Mark Wielaard , GCC Development , Nathan Sidwell Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, DKIM_VALID_EF, FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS, TXREP autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on server2.sourceware.org X-BeenThere: gcc@gcc.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Gcc mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 12:59:55 -0000 On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 8:28 AM Richard Biener via Gcc wrote: > > On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 1:36 PM Mark Wielaard wrote: > > > > You are referencing the recent open letter which isn't really what > > people are discussing here. Although many probably sympathize with > > calling for the removal of the entire Board of the Free Software > > Foundation and calling for Richard M. Stallman to be removed from all > > leadership positions, including the GNU Project > > > > You can disagree with the specific way that was worded and still come > > to the same conclusion. See for example https://www.arp242.net/rms.html > > Ah, this one is _very_ well written and captures my thoughts when > writing my response to Nathan (but not willing to spend so much time > on this to coherently formulate what I was thinking). > > And just to repeat - all the GCC governance structure (the "SC") represents > all of the same non-openess as the FSF governance structure (because > the "SC" is in fact appointed by the Chief GNUisance "or his delegates"). Richard historically has approved nominees to the GCC SC because the GNU Project considers the SC the official "maintainers" of GCC, but he has not nominated or suggested any of the members. I don't remember him rejecting a proposed nominee. And many major contributors to GCC have not wished to be members of the GCC SC whose major purpose is to be a buffer between the GCC Community and the Free Software Foundation. Has the GCC SC micro-managed you or prevented you from doing anything as Global Reviewer and Release Manager? Not that I'm aware of. Has the GCC SC blocked any new port or major feature? Not that I'm aware of. Has the GCC SC blocked any qualified maintainer nominations? Not that I'm aware of. Has the GCC SC instructed GCC developers on which features to work? No. Has the GCC SC inserted itself or voted on any disagreements? No. The reality is that the governance of GCC is extremely open because it's performed by the developers in the community, not the GCC SC. And GCC is much less bureaucratic than other, large Open Source projects. It doesn't have multiple committees and SIGs. Everything is worked out among the developers. Projects are started by developers who take the initiative to start a project. Be careful what you wish for because it may be much worse than the freedom that you currently enjoy. Thanks, David