From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wm1-x329.google.com (mail-wm1-x329.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::329]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 27B2B3851C1B for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 14:57:19 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 sourceware.org 27B2B3851C1B Received: by mail-wm1-x329.google.com with SMTP id w7-20020a1cdf070000b0290125f388fb34so10325643wmg.0 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 07:57:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=5LuCqPaTRr1kpPmyXwdNI/fPOpD/eJm28MhzDLG9/QY=; b=FnVJirPqrmmO3rHadPPGiOKNFYt2qAQ1r2suskPNCCFffWDHDOqOMqdWU7kAbm0FTD Q6n+EQKjkdAzP3ekROF/opNgTt5SNC2I3yJ5vkDy7bg+m/r2XjNhs2ISG/1wTvpskWtr T6nScg5nzCRgulusTwAbU55LjxDBJD7nM6axRRQiaQbVz58GdoZ0HnL9i8MZPIcwY5fq q1YqMo2C7lo8wf7e5hm20DniasEUdxy4vZLMtZ7bP4jjrizKuBO74j6sKCGLBHUH+3Xn 6/JU6pmAod8dGRBlhlrTL1yDBD9V2hgyVfZ1Lq2eBRzWyd476gCVMp/XqR4C4pY17Kub 5DJw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531hGcLRzuUrp7kEkXpV4IXD8Gq/xrFQOWMBYZPAV51vLgvn0Yjw XUxz72zUrc/wz/V2hT8qrfEwfi7+csRMLvjuovOLQFgE X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzE7Z0+rpa/M4m1PuOpoN+3vxvsIpyENqtco7xHkTAxuL/hXc67Dj6vCupmOtX5hBPPqzoHy6s3/+JFW1PNSYA= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:b007:: with SMTP id z7mr3442965wme.14.1618412238345; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 07:57:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20210414131843.GA4138043@thyrsus.com> <7e126821-f66c-869a-a7bc-6c19a3c1f017@netcologne.de> In-Reply-To: From: Jonathan Wakely Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2021 15:57:07 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: removing toxic emailers To: Thomas Koenig Cc: "gcc@gcc.gnu.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, DKIM_VALID_EF, FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, SPAM_BODY, SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS, TXREP autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on server2.sourceware.org X-BeenThere: gcc@gcc.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Gcc mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2021 14:57:20 -0000 On Wed, 14 Apr 2021 at 15:49, Jonathan Wakely wrote: > > On Wed, 14 Apr 2021 at 15:39, Thomas Koenig wrote: > > > > On 14.04.21 15:18, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > > > A strong norm about off-list behavior and politics being > > > out of bounds here is also helpful. > > > > That would have banned the whole discussion about the potential > > fork from the start. > > No, because once again, I raised the topic of a fork because I do not > feel that association with GNU or FSF benefits the GCC project. I did > not say "we have to cancel them because I don't like their politics" > (as it happens, I do like their politics, which is why I've spent two > decades writing copyleft code for GCC, I just think they have failed > to evolve and are sadly irrelevant today). And "the leader of the project had some good ideas but has terrible leadership skills" is also not political. It's a valid criticism of a project that we are nominally supposed to be part of. I don't have more "technical" reason because GNU isn't a "technical" project, it's a political/philosophical one. The FSF even more so. And I don't need anybody's consensus to create a fork. Somebody doesn't understand how free software works.