From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ej1-x634.google.com (mail-ej1-x634.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::634]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 783703858439 for ; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 10:55:55 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.4.1 sourceware.org 783703858439 Received: by mail-ej1-x634.google.com with SMTP id fy29so25296689ejc.12 for ; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 03:55:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=qou5iPjCgGjh/yHVTsYQ+GYVUSIKSfhyga+r4/iMuFw=; b=PV2oTfgck9EXmRWQTR6WCs3NDsG5gjS7Ziz97dG+8hqh51g8XLqvo+lIlZXyhe+JCx lVyRVoNZDFmrXdsygZvUqak3j43BPPfb4a1++p2/Eb15UNY36lAjViKOgnxvLr52yjhX uYGluyABWxAki/ZHtD/AolKcrCWv8utcTlGkBADUNl3+U4BdE9degBLWKu1007D9urA7 o41N0avU3RBr/bGSUKPUcU1JJwvFKHKXiF9LpXI4M7jfBQov8qBZQJuUeVrECTDFW/uI 5S6x2ZjMWB66PqYCkL3undTPti10ltQBDB4cUkgoVr5Sk1812EKxXF0pXmVQ5DsF7Uh2 Gf1A== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora9kLtJhYy84xJaslgiNMfHgildJ1KlfwFsj7C8yKC5jzUXkvK08 ZyyhnRkC8Kaw3zfD/wElDuGoudDypooENtS0bEM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1sa6HAZ1fPtUSEQ3f4yy/VBQ4QKIKM76ugsnZwzd/okm8Xm4tLcoKt4ZK+KZ4Xqg0JwHurgV72nC0rvgSQI2jo= X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:6ea7:b0:72f:2cf2:9aef with SMTP id sh39-20020a1709076ea700b0072f2cf29aefmr9529239ejc.215.1658228154282; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 03:55:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87wncaw9ty.fsf@oldenburg.str.redhat.com> <8F5B23E9-BC92-4BFC-A829-AF818CA2C170@gmail.com> <24083e98-bb04-f155-6e67-4f13ea116599@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Jonathan Wakely Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 11:55:42 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: rust non-free-compatible trademark To: lkcl Cc: Gabriel Ravier , Florian Weimer , lkcl via Gcc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_05, DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, DKIM_VALID_EF, FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS, TXREP autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.6 (2021-04-09) on server2.sourceware.org X-BeenThere: gcc@gcc.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Gcc mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 10:55:57 -0000 On Tue, 19 Jul 2022 at 11:27, lkcl via Gcc wrote: > > On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 12:41 AM David Edelsohn wrote: > > > > Luke, > > > > The GCC Community will give the issues that you raised due > > consideration and resolve any problems through appropriate channels. > > David: although this was a private reply I am assuming that is in > error, and i feel it is appropriate to make public, and wrap up this > thread. > > thank you for being literally the first person to very kindly give an explicit > indication that i've been heard. that's all that any of you had to do, and > now that i feel i've been heard i am no longer deeply frustrated and angry. I already said you were not being ignored, but you chose to interpret it as a dismissal of your feelings. Telling people to have more empathy and then reacting negatively when people have responses you don't like comes across as hypocritical. Your communication affects others too. > > https://www.crnhq.org/cr-kit/#empathy This should apply to all parties, not just the ones that aren't you. "Empathy is about building rapport, openness and trust between people. When it is absent, people are less likely to consider your needs and feelings." You started this thread with strong words like "draconian", "Unlawful" and immediately insisted on absolutes like "completely removed". No attempt to build rapport, or consider the feelings of the gccrs developers. It's no wonder it went downhill! > > Gabriel i very much appreciate your efforts to tell me that "i am > the problem" (see #empathy above) and i acknowledge those efforts. > let's not reduce the S/N ratio any further, eh? > > perhaps everyone can learn from this experience, and some point > down the line appreciate that, as an outsider with no vested interest, > i was the only member in this community that could safely raise that > "The Rust Foundation Emperor has no Clothes" without damage to > their tenure, client base, or career, in what is one of the highest-paying > most strategically critical FOSS Projects in the world. Nobody who has replied to you was trying to preserve their career or tenure, they just didn't agree with you. That's allowed. > in summary i look forward to seeing the public results of the consideration of > conversion of the Rust Trademark to a Certification Mark and the clear benefits > and natural fit with existing FOSS development practices that entails. > > http://archive.adaic.com/pol-hist/policy/trademrk.txt > > l. > > > l.